coming up, the supreme court case about deeply offensive free speech. also the tea party and the christian rights have long standing tensioning between social and economic conservatives been overcome? and the hallowed river, now polluted and running dry. additional funding by mutual of

america, designing customized and individual retirement products. that's why yourretirementcompany.com. also by the corporation for public broadcasting. >> welcome, i'm bob abernathy. it's good to have you with us. the u.s. supreme court opened a new term this week, and on wednesday dualing protests took place on the court steps as oral arguments began in the closely watched first amendment case. the dispute centers on the highly controversial west bureau baptist church in kansas, a small religious group that travels around the country, protesting at military funerals. members carry signs that millions find repulsive. they preach that america is being punished for toleration of homosexuality. in 2006, albert schneider, the father of a marine killed in iraq sued west borrow, claiming

the church inflicted emotional distress on the family by demonstrating near his son's funeral. at the court on thursday, schneider called the actions intolerable. >> all we wanted to do was bury matt with dignity and respect. >> but the daughter of the church's founder, fred phelps, argued that restricting their protests would have serious ramifications for free speech. >> there's no line that can be drawn here without shutting down a lot of speech. >> we talked about the major issues in the case with kim lauden, managing editor of the program, and tim o'brien who covers the supreme court. tim, the most despicable speech imaginable, no limits on it? >> well, there are limits on free speech. there can time, place and manner restrictions. you can't go through someone's neighborhood at 4:00 in the morning with a loud speaker. this is a content-based restriction and that's different.

even content-based restrictions are sometimes allowed. for example, you can sue somebody if they defame you. obscenity is not protected by free speech. fighting words are not protected. but here, the words, the comments, the demonstration as despicable as it was might still be protected. >> no matter how upset or sick it might make somebody else? >> consider, this is an important issue. the rights of gay people, gays in the military, it's a discussion, we might not like the way people come to this discussion or what they have to say about, is still a legitimate discussion about an important public issue. courts are loath to interfere with that kind of conversation. >> and it's always the question too of who draws the lines and on what basis do they draw the lines. so what might be offensive to some people may not be offensive to others and so it's a very tricky thing for the courts to get into. >> and kim, there's a religious angle to it too, isn't there? >> well, this speech is religiously motivated and this is a small church in kansas,

less than 70 members. most of the people who go there are all from the same family. it's an independent baptist church so it's not affiliated with any other denomination or other movement. and in fact, the southern baptist convention which is the largest protestant denomination in the country has taken great pains to say they are not related to us. the southern baptists also preach that homosexuality is a sin but they say it's a forgivable sin. so, this westboro church says god is punishing america for being tolerant of homosexuality they've also picketed the southern baptists for being too liberal on the issue. >> i don't think the courts going to really care very much that it happens to be religious inspired speech or how offensive it is. i think what they are going to look at is what about this family's privacy interests, what about the harm that it does to them emotionally to have this kind of demonstration at this terrible time in their lives and balance, try to balance, those competing interests. >> what about in a time when there's, you know, the

television and internet and all kind of ways that speech can be spread around the world. what, does that make any difference, should that make any difference in the content of what's said? >> well the supreme court has addressed that question, as well. it says television, for example, and radio, they are entailed to the least first amendment protections because it's so uniquely accessible to children in the privacy of the home. the internet, newspapers, demonstrations on the street, however, they're entirely different and the court has accorded them the greatest protection. >> and what about the feelings of people about, for instance, an islamic center right near ground zero? >> bob, i think that is very similar to what we have here. we have something that many of us find offensive and it may in fact be in bad taste. perhaps it shouldn't be there but to say it may not be allowed there is an entirely different matter. we might not like it but our constitution protects it. >> well, and just to get back to

the religion point though. while this case is not directly about those issues, a lot of religious groups have found themselves in this case before the supreme court in an uncomfortable spot because on the one hand they don't want to be associated with the message of this group and religious speech doesn't get a special place in law so yes they haven't spoken on it. but they are concerned. the notion of somebody restricting a religiously motivated speech makes them uncomfortable privately even though they don't want to necessarily say that and that's not what may happen in this case but it's sort of out there. religious people worrying about what we can say in the public forum and what we can't and so that is one of the things they'll be watching. >> and does it bleed over into what might be said in the pulpit? >> well, obviously there's some concern about that as well, although that's certainly not what's at stake here and i think the courts have always given special protection you know to religious practice. but, but there is some worry about you know again free speech when it comes religion on these

tough issues. >> and tim? >> as offensive as you find this conduct the fact that it happened may make us all cringe but that it's allowed to happen is another matter. when you are in a country that doesn't have anything like this, where everyone behaves, where discourse is always civil, where the press is always responsible, well that might be the scariest scenario of all. you've left a democracy and entered a place that's much less. >> tim o'brien, kim lawton. many thanks. also this week the supreme court refused to hear an appeal in a case involving christmas carol and other songs in holiday school concerts.7ç the third circuit ruled against such music saying included it amounted to government endorsement of religion. but since the supreme court refused to hear the case, the

prohibition stance in new jersey and pennsylvania. >> a chinese dissident currently in prison for diversion has won this year's peace prize. lui xiaobo was honored for his actions in his country. chinese authorities denounced the award. meanwhile, the vatican voiced concerns over a nobel prize announced this week. on monday british scientist edwards was awarded the nobel prize for medicine for developing invitro fertilization. since then the technique permitted the birth of approximately 4 million babies. but the roman-catholic church opposes the procedure.

a vatican official called edwards' work unethical because it involves the destruction of human embryos. a pair of reports issued this week shows poverty has risen substantially in america's suburbs. according to the brookings institution, the number of poor in the suburbs grew over the past decade at a rate faster than the national rate and the rate for urban areas. about one-third of the nation's poor live in the suburbs now. the weak economy has been a major factor energizing tea party activists in the week leading up to the midterm elections. those activists are getting a lot of support from religious conservatives. but how religious is the tea party, and what is its relationship with the christian right? kim lten reports. >> reporter: the tea party movement has been on the march this election season with its message of reclaiming america through limited government, fiscal responsibility and a free market.

at rallies across the country, tea party activists reverently invoke the founding fathers and the constitution. the focus is firmly on economics, with no mention of hot-button social issues like abortion or gay marriage. yet the tea party has had great appeal for religious conservatives. >> it is the people in our congregations who pay the taxes. that's what makes it religious. >> reporter: reverend c.l. bryant is a baptist pastor from louisiana and an adjunct fellow with freedomworks, one of the leading tea party grassroots groups. before the tea party march in washington, d.c., last month, bryant led an optional nondenominational prayer service on the mall. >> our rights don't come from republicans. our rights don't come from democrats. our rights come from our creator. that's where god comes in, and god has always been in the mix when we talk about america. >> reporter: there have been longstanding tensions in american politics between fiscal

conservatives and social conservatives. tea party leaders emphasize that theirs is a secular grassroots conservative movement. but significant involvement from religious right activists has raised new questions about whether those tensions have been overcome and what agenda would take priority after the election. >> there are a lot of tea party activists who i would characterize as much more libertarian in bent than socially conservative. they're really concerned about big government and reducing government size and scope in our society more than they're interested in the social issues agenda. but there are other tea party activists who combine both fiscal and social conservatism. >> the tea party leadership that's libertarian and the conservative republican evangelicals who don't like obama, they have an agreement here. but what i would say to the evangelicals who have joined this movement -- be careful, you will be used. >> reporter: according to a new survey from the public religion research institute, 11% of americans consider themselves to be part of the tea party movement, and 47% of them are

christian conservatives. >> as for me, i prefer tea parties, just so you know. >> reporter: the tea party had a highly visible role at the values voter summit in washington last month, an annual gathering of religious conservatives that always gives strong emphasis to social issues like abortion and gay marriage. one of the most popular speakers was south carolina senator jim demint, a favorite at many tea party rallies. >> the fact is you cannot be a real fiscal conservative if you do not understand the value of having a culture that's based on values. >> reporter: during one panel discussion, several local tea party activists said it was their christian faith that compelled them to get involved with the movement. >> for two weeks, i had woke up at 3:00 in the morning every morning, and i'm really

convinced it was god speaking to me every single night. >> reporter: family research council president tony perkins, a sponsor of the values voter summit, says there is a natural overlap between his movement and the tea party. >> i'm not trying to turn the tea party into what we do, and they are not trying to turn us into what they do. we complement one another, and we work together because we have a common vision of responsible government, individual responsibility, and a stable society. >> reporter: perkins says social conservatives who are part of the tea party haven't abandoned their core issues. it's just that in this election, concerns about the economy have taken center stage. >> when you look at government spending, rising debt, government expansion, takeovers, i mean, people are frightened. they are frustrated, scared, they're angry. but there's also the underlying values issues, the moral issues.

for values voters it may be on the screen about the economy, but running in the back is where do these candidates, where do these parties stand on life, on marriage, on family? >> reporter: still, some evangelical leaders are uncomfortable with the current emphasis on economics. >> i think there are some issues that are transcendent and are more important than other issues. the right to life for the unborn is infinitely more important than the question of how high one's taxes should be. >> i'm opposed to deficits, too, but that's not what primarily drives me as an evangelical christian. limited government? not really. what i want is a society and a government and its policies to reflect values i find in scripture-religious freedom, caring for the poor, caring about justice for all, caring about the least of these. but that's not what you hear from tea party leadership. >> reporter: rev. richard cizik

says he believes religious conservatives are in danger of being exploited by tea party leaders who have no intention of ever supporting their social causes. >> they'll take those evangelical votes, and then they will walk away from those people as quickly as a bat of an eye. >> reporter: george mason university professor mark rozell says similar things have happened before. >> very often in the past religious conservatives have felt burned that they supported these republican candidates who focused on the fiscal agenda hoping that those same candidates once elected would support the social issues agenda, and then when those individuals did not then the religious conservatives became very discontented, and this has happened time and time again. >> reporter: there appear to be disagreements within the tea party over exactly how to approach social issues and religion. former congressman dick armey, who is chairman of freedomworks, has repeatedly said that conservatives are not successful

when they focus on what he calls "the wedge issues." and while several national tea party leaders want to avoid god-talk, many in the rank and file don't shy away from it. >> some people say don't you put god into the tea party, billie, because they said the minute you do you are going to run a bunch of people off. and i'm saying i'm putting god back into the united states of america again. >> reporter: some, like indiana republican congressman mike pence, tailor their message to their particular audience. at the values voter summit, his speech was laced with references to religion and social issues, but at the tea party rally the same week he avoided even a direct reference to the bible. >> engraved on the liberty bell in philadelphia are words from an ancient text. those words read, "proclaim liberty throughout all the land and under all the inhabitants thereof." >> reporter: another complicating factor is conservative talk show host and tea party icon glenn beck, who

is rallying for a national revival of faith, honor, and values. he, too, has support from conservative evangelicals who like his open discussion of religion and morality. but beck is a mormon, which has also generated controversy among evangelicals. >> you have a member of the church of jesus christ-of-latter-day saints, which evangelical christianity does not recognize as christianity at all, who is being presented not just as a political leader but a religious leader, and not just as a religious leader but as the leader of a call to revival, and you have evangelical christians cheering this and supporting this. that tells me that there is at least a significant segment of evangelical christianity that has become defined politically rather than theologically and spiritually. >> reporter: despite the internal debates, rozell says in these midterm elections the political bottom line is clear. >> most of these people, even if they disagree with each other as to whether the focus should be

social or economic policy, they're conservatives, and they're going to vote against the democratic party, and that's ultimately what's going to count. >> reporter: the bigger question, he says, is what happens if tea party-backed candidates do indeed win. >> we learned from the 1994 so-called republican revolution it's easier to be against something than it is to govern. >> reporter: and agreeing on a post-election political agenda could be the biggest challenge of all. i'm kim lawton in washington. we have a story on the sad condition of the jordan river. it flows or trickles down into the sea of galley, divides israel of jordan and goes onto the dead sea. it's celebrated in both jewish and christian history. but the jordan is now so nearly dry and polluted israel built a

dam to make more water available for agriculture and for christian baptisms. fred lazaro has the story. >> tourism is big business in the holy land. millions of christians come here for the chance to retrace the footsteps of christ. among the most sacred rituals is to be baptized in the jordan river. >> being baptized for the first time in the jordan river. which is where jesus was baptized, it's awesome. words cannot explain how i feel. >> i feel freed. i feel at peace. my heart feels like it's been opened up. i can't put it into words. >> no words to explain. why i feel very, i feel very

happy and free. >> unlike their faith, the river is in very bad shape. this is now the only place considered safe enough for human contact. for midwest of the rest of the jew near, the jordan is reduced to a trickle as it meanders through a region driven by war and tension. gidon bromberg is with the environmental group friends of the earth middle east. >> due to the conflict, due to the competition between the parties, between israel, jordan and syria, israel grabs half the water and a little more than a quarter is grabbed by syria and a little bit under a quarter is taken by jordan and the result is 98% of the historical flow of the jordan today no longer, no longer flows. we're left with something around 2% and this is not fresh water. this is a mixture of sewage water, agricultural runoff, saline water.

what's left is very, very sad sight of a river that is holy to half of humanity. >> reporter: one that no longer flows into another fabled body of water. >> the dead sea is dropping by some three feet every year, that's from my hip down. >> reporter: only the ruins are left of a hotel verandah from where tourists use to stick their toes into the dead sea. today, its shoreline has receded more than a half mile away. from their respective sides, jordan and israel further drain the dead sea as they mine it for potash, a valuable fertilizer. >> at the moment our governments are trying to do absolutely everything. we're trying to maximize agriculture, were trying to maximize mineral extraction and we're trying to attract as many tourists as we can. well, the two don't, the three do not always correspond, do not neatly benefit each other. >> reporter: israel is a mostly

urban nation, but it also has developed a thriving farm sector. and even though it is efficient and recycles 70% of its water, agriculture is a huge consumer of water in one of the world's driest places, one made even more so by several recent years of drought. nowhere is that more apparent than in lake kinneret, the biblical sea of galilee, says environmentalist bromberg. >> yes, i should be completely under water. the sea of galilee behind us here should be five meters higher in depth. >> reporter: even though it's much lower, the lake remains a major source of fresh water for israel and also to preserve a pristine stretch of the lower river jordan for christian tourists. >> in order to keep just a small stretch of some three kilometers of the jordan healthy because of baptism that takes place here because of needs of agriculture, the water authority has built a

dam wall here and it's pumping water from the mouth of the river just for a few, just for a few kilometers. >> reporter: near the baptismal site, bromberg's group recently organized what it calls a big jump with israeli, jordanian and palestinian mayors and other officials, hoping to draw attention to the stresses on the historic river, a cause that they say transcends regional boundaries, even if those boundaries are at the heart of so much conflict.,/ >> we know the jordan river means a lot, not only for the region, it is for the whole world, for humanity, the jordan is very important for the three religions. we know what does it mean for the christianity, the baptism site and it is the dream of every christian to be baptized in healthy water and not in polluted water like it is nowadays. >> one, two, three, jump! >> reporter: even as the big media splash brought hordes of reporters and cameras, the baptisms and the prayers of

pilgrims went on undisturbed. pastor daniel santos, who organizes regular trips for congregants of his church outside london, had not heard about the river's pollution problems, and since this part was not affected, he was unconcerned. >> we're not much in it and now because we came here for a spiritual purpose. >> reporter: so it doesn't particularly bother you. >> yeah, because we also don't take much time here. >> reporter: that comes as a relief to tourist operators here, worried that the publicity might drive away business. they point out that israeli authorities regularly test the water to ensure it's healthy. gidon bromberg says the publicity has led to the construction of sewage treatment plants in israel and jordan and greater awareness of the jordan in a part of the river away from the tourist sites. >> we need to be striking a balance, a fair balance of

sharing water amongst people, israelis, palestinians, jordanians and a fairer balance of sharing water between people and nature. and we're going in that direction, but we've still got a long way to go. >> reporter: for "religion and ethics newsweekly," this is fred de sam lazaro. >> that's our program for now. i'm bob abernathy. there's much more on our website. including more of kim lawton's interviews. you can comment on all our stories or share them. audio and video podcasts are also available. and you can find us on facebook and follow us on twitter. join us at pbs.org. ♪ ♪

additional funding by mutual of america, designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we're your retirement company. also by the henry louis foundation and the corporation for public broadcasting.