>> rose: welcome to our program. tonight, tom friedman of the "new york times" who's just returned from india talks about president obama's trip to india. >> what's basically been happening between the united states and india, charlie, going back first with president clinton who really broke the spell of the cold war u.s./india relationship which was one in which india really was neutral in the world stage but more or less rather close alliance with russia, we were allied with pakistan. president clinton broke that. president bush then with the civil nuclear deal, the nuclear power deal with india kind of laid the basis of a new relationship. and what president obama is doing now is building on that. and we do have a lot in common. >> rose: we continue with david pelz, the master of the short game talking about how to conquer fear in golf. >> if you perceive fear, you're going to have a fear response which is bad for golf.

the solution is to understand and not perceive fear in the first place. how do we do that? well, i study each of these shots. we ran a large survey, many, many golfers, got over 10,000 responses. we asked every gofrler "who what shots... three shots do you fear the most?" we got hundreds and hundreds of... 10,000 responses but many over several hundred shots were described 30. stood out and of those 30, ten were above all others. >> rose: friedman and pelz next. maybe you want school kids to have more exposure to the arts. maybe you want to provide meals for the needy. or maybe you want to help when the unexpected happens.

whatever you want to do, members project from american express can help you take the first step. vote, volunteer, or donate for the causes you believe in at membersproject.com. take charge of making a difference. >> rose: we begin with president obama in india. during his three-day visit, the president met with p.m. singh, indian business leaders and

university students. the two country's growing partnership and economic ties have been front and center in those conversations. in an address to the indian parliament today, president obama said for the first time united states would back india's bid for a permanent seat on the u.n. security council. >> india is not simply emerging, india has emerged. (applause) and it is my firm belief that the relationship between the united states and india, bound by our shared interests and our shared values will be one of the defining partnerships of the 21st century. this is the partnership that i've come here to build. this is the vision that our nation can realize together. >> rose: president obama also announced that indian and american companies have signed 20 deals worth $10 billion. with an annual growth rate of over 8% and a population over a billion people, india season s an important market for american companies. the president will travel next to indonesia.

later this week he'll be in south korea for the g-20 summit and finally to japan for the apec meeting. joining me from washington, tom friedman of the "new york times." he has returned from india and i'm pleased to have him on this program. welcome. >> thanks, charlie, great to be with you. >> rose: so tell me what the strategic importance india is to the united states and the strategic importance of the united states to india. >> well, charlie, this trip is happening at a moment when china has, over the last six months, rather aggressively-- as one indian cabinet minister put it to me-- begun to assert its claims to the whole south china sea, basically. both control over sea lanes and mineral deposits and oil reserves there. and china's done that in a way that's involved intercepting vietnamese fishing boats. it's done in the ways of... we

know one of the chinese officials boats approached an area what where japan thought it controlled. japan arrested the captain, china then went and banned the export of all these critical materials to japan in retaliation until japan gave it up. so what's basically happened in asia over the last six months is that china has really been flexing its muscles. after years, charlie, in which people said, "oh, china has so outfox it had americans, it's been so smart about its soft power and what not." the result of this is basically all of the southeast asian nations have suddenly looked at the united states and said "would you guys mind coming out for a visit? secretary clinton, president obama, please stop here." and that's really the context, the strategic context now. i think a lot of the southeast asian nations from india to japan, from korea to vietnam are really looking to have the

united states visibly openly involved in the neighborhood as a counterbalance to china. >> rose: and the president welcomes that opportunity? and how does he count it so that china doesn't see it as a threat to them? >> well, exactly. you know, none of them... it's very subtle, charlie. it's not like containment of the soviet union. i would call it a pre-containment or maybe containment-like. no one wants to actually be seen as... in a hostile relationship with china. not the united states, not india. you know, most people don't realize, charlie, that india's biggest trading partner today is actually china. and so... and that's probably true of virtually all the nations in that region. so none of them want a hostile relationship with china. but what they're basically saying to china is, you know, please stay in your lane. stay in your lane and we'll stay in ours. we're all going to be fine. but if you get out of your lane, we do want you to know we've got

this american friend back home and he's got a really big tow truck. >> rose: (laughs) >> so it's just a little bit of very, very subtle signaling going on. and i think... before i went on here tonight i saw a little crawl item on the t.v., charlie. it said "china's ambassador to japan makes an overture welcoming talks" and what not. and my guess is that china's leadership realizes that it's overplayed its hand and it's basically driven all of its neighbors much closer to the united states. so we'll see how this plays out, but that's basically what's going on. >> rose: so what are the elements of the u.s./indian relationship. we see the president supporting india for a seat on the security council. brazil wants a seat as well. so the other countries that are competitive for that seat. >> well, i don't really think india or brazil or anyone is going to be on the security council for a long time as a permanent... one of the permanent five joining britain,

france, the united states and china. but this was a symbolic jess dhaur the indians very much hungered for because it acknowledged their pivotal role in the world today. so what's basically been happening between the united states and india, charlie i going back first with president clinton who really broke the spell of the cold war u.s./india relationship which was one in which india really was neutral in the world stage but more or less rather closely aligned with russia. we were allied with pakistan. president clinton broke that. president bush then with the civil nuclear deal, the nuclear power deal with india kind of laid the basis of a new relationship. and what president obama is doing now is building on that. and we do have a lot in common. we have lots of indian-americans that we've educated in this country who have become americans. we have lots of economic ties. the need to both of us wanting to balance china a little bit pulls us together

geostrategically. so i think one way or another india and america are doomed to be friends and i think this is the beginning of a new relationship. but it's going to build slowly. remember, you know, india has a deep, deep non-align tradition. it has a socialist political elite that is still very powerful. it has a gandhi pacifist strain that bumps up against some of the elements of american foreign policy. so i don't think we're going to rush into each other's arms but i think this is going to be a slow-building relationship between the world's two biggest multiethnic democracies. we have a lot in common. >> rose: how does the united states get india to look at pakistan with a better perspective? >> well, you're right, charlie. i mean you talk to any indian official and it always reminds me of talking to israelis 20 years ago and yasser arafat and the p.l.o. when they're talking about pakistan, these indian officials. so it's a deep neural jim

relationship. it's centered in the dispute over kashmir and jammu and unfortunately india views that as entirely an internal issue and therefore has never invited or allowed the kind of external mediation we've done in the arab-israeli conflict. so what we've been nudging india to do-- and president obama did that on this trip-- is to try to be... make a more forward-leaning stand in resolving... finding some kind of resolution on kashmir with pakistan in the hopes of relieving some of the pakistani anxiety so pakistan won't look at afghanistan as somehow its strategic depth in the next war with india. because, you know, it's something that it's very, very harm to feel american foreign policy right now or debilitating, the fact that pakistan is so obsessed with india that it looks at afghanistan as this kind of

necessary rear guard that it's got to protect and control, therefore it supports the taliban, therefore x, y, and z. >> rose: how is the president perceived there and in china? >> i think... you know i was in china just a month before so i've had the chance to visit china and india over the last 60 days. in india he's very, very popular: i think first as a person of color and the idea that this guy was able to become... emerge as the president of the united states. i think because he has a much more multilateral approach to the world which is much more in sync with the rhythms of indian foreign policy and their approach to the world. so i think in india he's a natural there and i'm sure he has been received very warmly and from everything i've seen. china... china i'm not sure. i'm not sure the chinese really know... have quite figured out

barack obama. i don't think they look at him as some pushover, but for china where the leadership are... tent to be so much older. you know, you're young in the chinese leadership when you're 60 or 65. you know, looking at this very young american president, i'm not sure they've fully understood how to take his measure. >> rose: all right. a couple things you've been writing about, bilines. this from india on november 2. "having the traveled to china and india over the last few weeks, here's a scary thought i have. be what if for all the hype about china and globalization they're actually underhyped. what if these sleeping giants are just finishing a 20-year process of getting the basic technological and educational infrastructure in place to become innovation hubs and that we haven't seen anything yet." that is the story of the future. >> well, you know, charlie, you've been kind enough, we've talked over the years about my book "the world is flat" which... i started writing in the 2004 and people have asked

me lately, you wrote that six years ago, did you get it right? and i tell everybody i got it wrong. they say "that's what we thought. what'd you get wrong?" here's what i got wrong. the world is so much flatter than i thought. it is so much flatter than i thought. we learned in the economic crisis, who knew that iceland was a hedge fund with glaciers? who knew that this tiny north atlantic island had turned itself into an offshore bank and attracted the savings of a billion dollars worth of savings from british savers and municipals. i see the same thing when i go to india and as i wrote about just one company that, using cell phones, basically, to create a virtual banking system india now is selling about 15 million new cell phones... i mean signing up 15 million new cell phone users every month. and what you see is this kind of platform of wireless connectivity through cell phones through the cloud computing and

through laptops is getting more and more proliferated. well, the good news about that is not just that people are downloading games or sending each other e-mail. what it's doing, charlie, is connecting more and more brains. it's connecting more and more brain power to this platform and i think it's going to lead to an explosion of innovation. and the kind of explosion of innovation it's going to lead to out of india, and you see this all over the place, will be low-cost solutions to the specific problems of india. but those are going to be good for the world. they're going to be good for every part of the world. some will scale in africa, some will scale even in america. whether it's low-cost banking or finding low-cost health care or low-cost insurance. so net i think this is a good thing. but we have to understand it's moving relentlessly forward and probably a lot faster than we think. >> rose: and who wins the race between india and china over the long term? >> well, you know, i think there are two big question marks. i mean, each country is a big question mark. and whenever i'm in india people ask me about china and whatever

i'm in china people ask me about india so i've learned to give this answer. to me both are like huge superhighways. chinese superhighway perfectly paved roads, wonderful white lines down each line, street lights, everything works. everyone's going 80 miles an hour. there's just one problem. off in the distance there's a speed bump called political reform and when 1.3 billion people going 80 miles an hour hit a speed bump, one of two things happen. the car jumps up, slams down, everyone says "you okay? i'm okay," drives on. the other thing that could happen is all the wheels fall off. and we don't know what happens when 1.3 billion chinese going 80 miles an hour hit that speed bump of political reform. now, india's also a giant superhighway. it's not quite fixed, none of the lanes are quite painted, half the sidewalks aren't finished and three quarters of the street lamps are either not installed or not working. but off in the distance, charlie

off in the distance it looks like it smooths out into a perfect six-lane superhighway. and the question with india, is that a mirage or that the oasis? is that the real sning and so that's how i see both. you know, that both have enormous potential. china has the question of political reform. india that has question of are you finally going to get your governance together to build that infrastructure to take you into the 21st century? >> rose: this is what you wrote on october 30. what is most striking to me being in india this week, though, is how many indians young and old express their concerns that america also seems at times to be running away from the world it invented and that india is adopting. with president obama scheduled to come here next week at a time when more than a few u.s. politicians are loudly denouncing immigrations reforms, free trade expansion and outsourcing, more than a few indian business leaders want to ask the president what's up with that? didn't america export to the world all the technologies and free market dogmas that created this increasingly flat global

economic playing field? and now you're turning against them. you're talking about congress more than the white house, obviously. >> yeah, certainly not the white house. certainly much more the congress. and that is a big concern. you know, charlie, a lot of people don't know fully... in america don't appreciate who mohan singh is, india's prime minister. he's the deng xiaoping of india. in 1991 india was down to $100 million in foreign reserves. the country was basically going bankrupt and it was mohan singh who then as finance minister really paved the way for the opening of the indian economy. today i think they have well in excess of $100 billion in foreign reserves and it's become this economic powerhouse. by basically going into high tech, liberalizing their market, still not enough... as much as we would like but nevertheless going in that direction. and basically looking at entrepreneurship and capital formation as something that was really frowned upon basically historically in india as

something that is both necessary and can be a real positive for the country and its future. and right when they're doing that, they kind of hear... because they follow us very closely, they listen to the debate here. they hear the congressman who basically saying, you know, we shouldn't have immigration reform. they see pressure coming from americans to say we don't want any more knowledge workers from india coming in this country and we're against outsourcing even though really only a tiny portion of american jobs get outsourced to india. most jobs get outsourced to the future thanks to... excuse me, outsourced to the past thanks to technology. so that's basically what they've concerned with. they're listening to the debate and they're worried right when they kind of got on the open market innovation technology road and it's been working for them, the americans-- some americans-- seem to be pulling in. >> rose: i wonder if the chinese and the indians and other people in the region are reading american election returns.

and are they asking questions well maybe the president has more political problems than we imagined he did after such an extraordinary victory in 2008 and does that impact on their relationship with america? >> i don't think so. i... of course it's hard to know. obviously they read our elections but they understand our system. they understand this is a bye election and that means they're going to have to deal with barack obama for another two years at a minimum. and so i don't think they're looking at him as some lame duck by any means. i think they have a great respect for his abilities as a politician and i don't get that sense that they're somehow backing away from him at this stage at all. >> rose: tell me more about what it is that you think this country has to do to be as powerful a force in this century as it was in the last half of the previous century. >> well, let's start with the

basic which we cannot stimulate our way out of this problem, we can't bail our way out of this problem, we can't print our money out of this problem. there's only one way we grow and that's if we design, invent, and manufacture as much as we can, more goods and services that make people's lives more healthy more secure, more productive, more healthy, or more entertained and sell them to more people around the world. and if we do that, by leveraging really good american infrastructure and technology so our american workers are so productive, one american worker can do the work of ten chinese or ten indians and therefore be paid like ten chinese or ten indians. charlie, that's the only way out of this. that's the only discussion we should then be having is what do we need do to educate more people do that, to inspire more people to innovate those products and to create the kind of environment for manufacturing in this country that we will

create those good jobs? now, if you talk to people like the c.e.o. of intel, you know, basically what he'll tell you is that the reason he opens a chip factory in china and not in new mexico is because the chinese government basically is there with ten years worth of tax relief that adds up to about a billion dollars. well, a billion dollars is a lot of money. and one of the things we've always resisted is, oh, we're not going to do that. that's industrial policy. well, that may have been great in a world of walls where we could keep these companies here. but in a world without walls, we have got to do what is basically being done by every major company... every country in the world now to attract talent and to attract investment. and, by the way, when you gave company a tax holiday, if it will open a factory that will provide long-term quality manufacturing jobs in your district, you're not actually

paying them anything, you are foregoing tax income but you're getting it back in some so many other ways in your community. we've got to start to be smart about this. we can't go on being dumb as we want to be and saying we're just going to let the market sort this out. the kind of industries we want to go into as a country, things like clean tech, these are big industrial projects and they require these kind of incentives to attract these companies to build them in america. and i just think we need that strategy. we need the strategy that says how do we build the workers? how do we inspire the innovateors and how do we keep the manufacturing here? what do we need do? let's take out a bank piece of paper, make a list and just do it. and it's very frustrating to watch us arguing about everything else in the world except that. >> rose: should this be our man on the moon project? >> you know, it's... i think our man on the moon project...

>> rose: is energy. >> has to be something like energy that is really transformational and aspirational. but, you know, i don't think it requires... we don't to transform, we don't to turn ourselves upsidedown. just going around the world, talking to singapore. i'll tell you a story, charlie, and i wrote about this a while back. i had done a column about the fact that our energy department and president obama wanted to create eight innovation... energy innovation hubs around america at american universities and research centers to solve the biggest energy problems in the world. a battery... to create battery break throughs, fuels from sunlight break throughs, etc. so the idea was to give these eight research centers $25 million over five years each and for a billion dollars really make a break through in the basic science all across the energy spectrum. so what happens? the congress funded them... said

we'll do three, i think they said. and we'll do each one at $12 million. so i was talking to the man who runs the public policy school in singapore about this and i think that only would fund them with $12 million. he said $12 billion. i said no, $million. he said $12 billion? i said no, $12 million. he said the united states of america is only going to fund break through science at $12 million? in singapore we spend a billion dollars to attract bioscience to the united states. you know, steve chu had someone on his staff, a nobel prize winner who he wanted to be an assistant secretary of energy. it took him nine months to get him confirmed through this senate because somebody put a hold on him. a nobel prize winner. the man from singapore told me in those nine months we would have built him a new lab by now. so we just can't go on being dumb as we want to be, charlie.

it just can't go on. we're going to hit a wall here. you know, i'm sure i've said this before to you but if i haven't... you know, my friend rob wattson the founder of leed buildings always likes to say if you jump off the top of an 80 story building you can think you're flying for 79 stories. it's the sudden stop at the end that tells you you're not. and, charlie, if we don't get smarter quicker, we're heading for a sudden stop at the end. >> rose: the president gets this though, does he not? the president. >> i believe he gets it. certainly he gets it intellectually. but, you know, somehow this team has not gotten it kind of all together, pulled out the threads together. now, in fairness to them they were dealing with a million things at once beginning with the hemorrhaging of the economy. but certainly coming out of this midterm that's what i hope the president will be doing. get blank sheet of paper out. get our best innovators, entrepreneurs together and

simply say what do you guys need to bring good jobs, invent new products and bring good manufacturing jobs to this country? let's make that list and let's do it. and if somebody wants to stand in the way of that, then call them out at least for that. then we'll know who's standing in the way of a better future for america in the 21st century. >> rose: do you feel as you travel around the world that the rest of the world wants new york lead? wants america to have the kind of future you're talking about? >> oh, at the popular level absolutely, charlie. you know, one of the things that i learned living abroad in the middle east for as long as i did everyone loves to make fun of america. we're so naive, we think every problem as has a solution, those silly americans, we get all atwitter about an affair between the president and an intern. everyone loves to make fun of us. but charlie at the end of the day american optimism, american naivete helps make... it really makes the world go round.

and if america goes dark, if america goes adrift that's something that touch and is felt by people all over the world. america in the mind of the world is still a very, very powerful thing. the one thing that gives me hope and i see that more and more, a young man came to see me in my office today, it was a wonderful kind of teach for america kind of idea. i don't want to reveal his project because it's not out yet. but he left my office and i was just sitting in the chair thinking you know what i love about our country? the one thing that saves us? there's always somebody who doesn't get the word. that's the greatest thing about america. there's always some young person some inventor and i keep meeting these people any time i travel, they didn't get the word that you're supposed to be depressed, you're supposed to be on your back, you're supposed to be watching fox t.v. and feeling all kind of hate and venom for

president obama. they just didn't get the word and they're out thinking of new ideas, inventing new products, they're thinking of great ways to help other people. and if there's one thing that keeps me optimistic, it's that. i said for a long time if i were to draw a picture of america today, it would actually be a picture of the space shuttle taking off. you've seen the space shuttle, all that thrust coming from below? that's all those people down there. the country is still full of innovateors and entrepreneurs but right now our booster rocket washington, d.c., is cracked and leaking energy. and the pilots in the cockpit are fighting over the flight plan. so our country right now can't achieve the escape velocity, the escape velocity it needs to get into the next orbit, the next great industrial revolution. if we could just fix that booster rocket and get the pilots in the congress pitt to stop fighting over the flight plan we could get somewhere. this is still a great country. >> rose: it's always great to have you on this program, my friend. thank you. >> thanks, charlie. thank you. >> rose: tom friedman from washington looking at india,

china, united states, and our future. back in a moment, dave pelz who tom knows and tom makes a cameo appearance on mr. pelz's appearance on this program this evening. back in a moment. >> rose: dave pelz is one of golf's most respected instructors. he's coached ten p.g.a. professionals to a combined 20 major titles. he specializes in the finer aspects of putting and executing shots within 100 yards of the green. his approach combines the application of swing mechanics and psychology. he writes about both in "golf without fear: how to play the ten most feared shots in golf with confidence." i'm pleased to have him here at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: you've written other books on golf. give me sense of what this means to you and why it's different. >> well, this is the most recent and... >> rose: i got that. >> and based on all of our

research... my entire career in golf is based on research. i study things and then develop the use of them and in our schools we commonly see golfers standing over a put or a pitch in our short game schools, they have fear, they have fear in their hearts in their minds and their bodies. >> rose: no matter how good the game. >> right. everybody has a weakness. sometimes that weakness develops into a fear and i thought i ought to understand what this fear... where it comes from and so years ago, maybe four or five years ago now i did a little research project on my own on fear. it's a... it's been with us since we stood up on two feet, they say. it's a very basic instinct in the body. people used to run for their lives or fight. the response to fear is called flight or fight. >> rose: right. >> and apparently from the

researchers, the research that the experts do, there's no compromise of that. if you feel... if you sense fear, if you perceive fear, your body will react. your heart rate will go up, your breathing will increase rapidly, you will sweat, your brain starts to race. and a golfer with all that going on does not perform very well. so i got into studying how could you eliminate this. and the secret is... there's only one way. if you perceive fear, you're going to have a fear response, which is bad for golf. the solution is to understand and not perceive fear in the first place. how do we do that? well, i study each of these shots... we ran a large survey. got over 10,000 responses. what shots do you fear... the three shots do you fear the most? we got hundreds and hundreds of... 10,000 responses but many over several hundred shots were described. 30 stood out and of those 30, 10

were above all others. >> rose: and i have 10 right here. number 10, lag puts. >> right. >> rose: most feared shot. number 9, against the wall. number 8, the green side pitch. number 7, hitting through trees. not wanting to hit the three. number 6, buried lies in sand. number 5, the high soft cut lob shot. number 4, downhill lies. number 3, tight lies. number 2, green side sand. number 1, short putts. short putts. >> easiest shot in golf. isn't that amazing? the fear comes from the inability to execute. they either don't know how or what to do or in the case of short putt they've got something in their routine or in their alignment or setup that prevents them from holding them and they fear the embarrassment of missing in that particular shot. it's not the fear of execution, it's the fear of missing the hole, it's embarrassing.

and, of course, that's the number one vote getner all these golfers that responded because there's so many short cuts in golf. putting is 43% of your game, half of all short putts are inside of six feet, if you're afraid of short putts, the game is not that much fun. my hope here is that if we can remove the fear from the game, a lot of golfers are going to enjoy it. >> rose: this book is about here? >> about fear and trying to reduce it and letting you enjoy the game more. >> rose: and combine the elimination of fear with swing mechanics? >> right. we studied the shot and we found out what is difficult... about what makes this feared? that's the first thing. >> rose: how did you get to be dave pelz? how did you become famous for helping people including the best pros with the short game. >> well, i try to be a player first. i went through college on a golf scholarship but i majored in physics. >> rose: played against jack nicklaus. >> i did, in fact. very unsuccessfully. >> rose: you're not alone. >> (laughs) well, i got out of college,

didn't think i could make the tour and happened to luck into a job at goddard space flight center at nasa. >> rose: right. >> about 14 and a half years later i am sitting there doing space research just having the time of my life, i loved it because this was the golden era of the space race, we sent the first probes to venus and mars and we had some success, some not so successful, they burned up the first time we went into venus, we didn't know how hot it was. so anyway, i started thinking about golf and i was thinking about why could i beat some very very good athletes in basketball-- i had a basketball scholarship-- and i could ping-pong and tennis. i mean, i'm not a bad athlete. i'm not the world's greatest, i'm not saying anything like that. but i just got to the golf course and i couldn't beat the players i thought i should beat and i thought it's not intelligence, i'm majoring in physics, they're majoring in business. it's not hard, i can compete with anybody.

it's not my lack of work, it's not my work ethic, i'll practice night and day, in the rain, doesn't matter. i couldn't compete on a national level with the really good players. i mean, the fact that i lost to the great players in person to person contact... >> rose: so what was the answer? why couldn't you compete? >> i didn't know how. i didn't know what was wrong. i took lessons from 50 pros. they didn't address my true weaknesses. >> rose: which were? >> well, in goddard... at goddard space flight center where i spent 14 and a half years, i had the tools to measure anything. i could measure the finest things in the world. i built a machine in my spare time-- not government time-- on how my putting stroke moved. how the putter moved as it hit the golf ball and for the first time in my career i found out i was hitting the ball out towards the toe virtually every time. a little more towards the toe, a little less, that's human imperfection but you're supposed to hit the ball on the sweet spot where the putter doesn't turn. the ball should gain energy, the putter should lose energy, it shouldn't turn. i was hitting it, i had a habit

of hitting it on the toe. turns out almost half of all golfers have that habit. no one ever told me that: i built a little device that suddenly taught me how to hit it on the sweet spot, my putting improved, i played in the u.s. open, i was disqualified from the u.s. open, played in the u.s. amateur, i was a medalist. i started... i was a medalist from maryland state. so i had some success even though i wasn't practicing as much or working as hard. so i thought what the world doesn't need is another player trying to be a great player. what the world needs, maybe, maybe, didn't know if it would be any good, but i thought if i could do real honest-to-god research in golf that had never been done, measure things that had never been measure which had i had learned how to do at nasa, maybe i could help the average golfer play better and maybe the world needs to play better golf to enjoy it more. so i started doing research on the game itself and i found out that 60% to 65% of everyone's shots-- yours, mine and phil

mickelson's are inside of 100 yards. >> rose: within 100 sglardz >> yeah, golfers think their first two shots are the game. they drive almost every hole, hit to the green almost every hole. they don't think that after you hit those first two shots there are two or three or four more shots. so two-thirds of the game is inside 100 yards, they don't realize that, they don't practice it. they go and practice their drives. so i focus tonight short game and i started working with pros first. i never gave any amateurs any lessons, i didn't think i had time. when i resigned from the government, i took a year's leave of absence, really found that i loved golf. i was a golfer first and a physicist second rather than a physicist who loved golf. and i then went into golf and failed miserably for a while, didn't make any money, starved, sold both cars and my house and mortgaged them and got some loans from some players and 35 years later here i am. >> rose: i want you to expand on

what i say. before your warmup, go to the track's the green and 17 steps away from a hole. that's about 50 feet from most people. putt through balls from a hole and do that for another direction. learn to lag the ball close to a hole from 50 feet. the average golfer putts from there three times. >> well, how many people go to the green... i mean go to the course five minutes before tee time? they run out, swing a few times, hit two or three balls, they tee it up and go... they don't practice their leg putting. golfers have no idea how to lag a 50-put putt close to the hole. now when they face it three or four times around, they don't get it close, they miss the next one, they three-putt it. it's too t easiest way to lower your score is to lag it close to the hole. >> if you have a another five minutes before you tee it up, hit chip shots from 10, 15, 20 feet off the ground. give your hands and your touch tuned up... get your hands and your touch tuned up. >> that's what most golfers fail to do, again. by running to the first tee they

don't want to hurt their back-- and i agree with that-- stretch enough that you can hit your tee ball and not tear your back out. but you know you're probably going to miss the green. most golfers miss most greens. the truth is over 90% of all golfers miss the green in regulation. so you have a chip shot or pitch shot or some kind of a short shot almost every hole. they don't practice these in their time off. most of us work for a living. we're not like tour players. practice all week, everyday virtually. we work for a living, we make money. we have our lives and we want to play on the weekends. so one of my efforts in the future and i've just started, i'll talk to you about it later sometime, but i'm trying to get things xepl do at home to really help themselves. a lot of the work on conquering your ten most feared shots is to be started in your backyard or in your garage or your... any place you have a place to swing to start learning the skills that will let you attack these ten most feared shots or improve your game. i like to do it a lot at home. people need to practice their

short games and they don't. they tend to ignore it. i i but that's what you're famous for, understanding the importance of the short game. let me talk about coaching and instructions and everybody who plays the game has had some experience. there are tons of books and tons of videotape. what's the difference between going to austin to see you for some personal instruction and reading all these books that you've written about the short game of which there have been very good books. what is it you get? what can a coach, an instructor, a teacher do? >> rose: the reason butch harmon hank heaney, david led better the most famous three full swing teachers, the reason they are famous is that they have great eyes and they have great experience. in watching a golfer execute the swing poorly and seeing, noticing, identifying in their own mind what they need to tell the person to improve.

golfers can't see themselves swing. when most golfers see themselves on video they're astounded. "is that me swinging?" because it's really not very good in most amateurs. and it's even in worse in a short game because golfers really don't know what they're supposed to be doing in the short game because they haven't taken lessons and worked on it. 20 out of 21 golfers practice the whole swing not the short game. so we have a lot of people there. but the teachers identify the mistakes golfers are making and get that information into their mind's eye. i write the books and i try to identify in pictures and one of the innovations in this particular book is we've recently trademarked a name called the golfer's eye view. we're trying to get in this book the view of the shot your feet, your hands, the ball in the lie and the club face, then as you turn your head... at the golf course you turn your head and look at the target. both of those views are in this book and they're combined so as

you turn the book you see from a golfer's eye view what the situation is and then you turn the book and you tilt your head slightly and see the target and you see everything in between. you rotate the book and you see this. >> rose: i think this is it is. this it? >> that's a perfect example. >> rose: so that's how it looks... where you are watching this... >> look at the right side of the page. now as you tilt your head slightly left sitting in your chair and you, charlie, tilt the book clockwise about 45 degrees, now you see the target and what you're trying to hit over. so that's the innovation and photography and in fact my photographer is my great friend and i've been working with him for years. i gave him a tribute in the back of the book because he's so innovative and he came up with how to do this, how the get the exact picture of what i'm seeing when i'm trying to teach these shots and that's in that book. i think it will affect the photography and future golf books because it's a great way to try to get into the mind's

eye what's really happening on the golf course without actually being there. now the advantage the coaches have is when you try it and do what they say to do and you think you did it right and they see that you didn't they can identify that. and that's the weakness of learning out of a book is that we've got to be very careful and people have today-to-identify their own mistakes in the book. >> rose: what can you teach a golfer like phil mickelson-- who came to you. >> (laughs) well, phil is a very special case in that he called me actually on the phone, i had met him a few times but he said "pelz, can you help me a quarter of a shot around in major tournaments?" at the time i met phil, which was a little over seven years ago now, he had never won a major, he'd had... played in 43 of them and he had won 29 or 30 tournaments at that time and never won a major. and i said phil, you're one of the... you're reputed to be one of the best short game players in the world. what do you need me for?

he said "i need a quarter of a shot around. i finished six times second. i've lost by one shot." >> rose: four rounds would be one shot. >> four rounds would be one shot it would get me into the playoffs and i'd win a few. he says i can win in playoffs. i said look, if you will commit to trying a few things because i don't know your game right now, i don't know what your weaknesss are but i'm absolutely sure that we can improve you by a quarter of a shot around. foort natalie since then he's won four majors so i feel very, very good about that. >> rose: so what did you do for him? >> well, i watched him for three months, followed him around in some tournaments and decided that he's a tremendously talented young man. he's got a lot of talent, got a lot of heart. he's not afraid of anything. he has no fear of any shot. if he thinks he can possibly pull it off, he'll do it, he'll try it. and we've argued about that a lot, by the way, we don't agree on the percentages of how many times he should go for it but, look, he's a smart guy.

he's probably taught me a lot more than i've taught him. >> rose: there are a couple times if he'd kept hit in the fairway he'd vn better off. >> well, anyway, in getting to his game what i did initially is try to influence him, gave him a lot of numbers, a lot of stats and said if you try this one, that's not the right move. try a different shot. then i tried to refine some of his technique in the easy short game shots because i've never seen a player hit the tough short game shots better than phil. on the easy shots he doesn't practice them as much, he wasn't as good, he wasn't much better than some of the other players so he gained a little bit there and over the years we've refined a few things, just tiny little things, charlie. he can hit any shot in the game. the question is we... in fact, the biggest change i made in his game was preparing for majors because he had never gone to augusta national before the week of the tournament. he'd never done it before and he said dave, i've played 40

tournament rounds in augusta national-- that's 10 tournaments-- and i've played a few practice rounds in the week before. i know the course. i don't need go early. i said phil, you're 0-43 in majors. let's try it my way once. and he said fair enough. i mean, he recognized that he'd never done what i was suggesting. we went and we spent two days at augusta the week before the week of the masters. now we're on the golf course alone, the only two people out there, we're taking an hour a hole. for two days we spend 18 hours on the course and we don't hit drives or second shots, we just go around the greens hitting all the shots and everywhere he would hit the shot that he would normally hit i'd... if i saw anything that might be an option i'd say okay, let's try ten balls this way, ten balls that way. so he hit ten this way, ten that way. i measured how far he left his putts from the hole and sometimes, every once in a while i'd say look, you're better this way than that way.

he... turns out he won that 2004 masters. and we haven't missed a major since and we've been together the week before the major, sometimes two weeks before the major and he's won four times and i'm convince head would have won more if he hadn't had a really, really difficult last three years. >> rose: his wife and his family. >> well, his wife has been diagnosed with cancer. his mother. and then he was diagnosed early this year, the week before the u.s. open, i don't know how many people know it, but he had a press conference on it with arthritis can which... it can end a career. it has ended several careers on the p.g.a. tour but he is under medication now, he's got it under control and it will never go away but the medication is driving it into remission and he learn to play with this medication. and he hasn't won a tournament yet but he finished... he played all three majors after the master this is year with this medication... sorry, he played the third one. the first two he just had advil

and a lot of painkillers and played, but he's finished top 20 so he's playing well. he's not winning yet but i think if this medication works and he gets back to his full game he'll win a number more. >> rose: tiger has a new coach. >> i hear that. yes. >> rose: is it making a difference? >> you know, honestly i don't know enough about tiger. i mean, i have treasured tiger in the last seven years as the opponent. i mean, if phil beats tiger, he'll win major tournaments. and i think tiger will be back. i think we'll play really well again, i think he will be one of the dominant players in the game and what i slope that phil is healthy enough because i know he's talented enough, i know he works hard enough, his skill is there. he can drive it well enough now.

he's got the game. these two can have battles with all the youngsters that have come along. >> rose: what about lee westwood? >> oh, lee is a great player. i love lee westwood. he's very deserving of the number-one ranking. >> rose: and never won a major. >> no, i know. but he's been right there several times and you kind of have to learn to win them. you kind of have to get out of your own way. if lee would... if lee had the short game of phil... lee putts very well and drives it better than almost anybody. but if his short game was up to mickelson's short game he'd have won a bunch of majors by now and knowing him he'll probably work on it in the next few years. >> rose: who's the best player under 25? >> oh, boy. charlie, that's a tough one. that's a tough one. i think last year we're talking about rowe,ish cow what and the irish... rory mack roy. >> rose: who tiger says is a

fabulous >> and anthony kim is fabulous. but i wrote an article in last year's golf magazine and said that if dustin johnson or hunter mann ever got their short game really up to major standards they'd win a bunch. and i said they may be the best of the new crew rather than these slightly younger... i mean dustin's what, 24 or 25. >> rose: he's got a couple good shots and blew it on the last hole. >> listen, dustin is a fabulous guy and he'll win. he'll learn to win. he's had some bad breaks. >> rose: go through the history of golf. everybody has his own individual swing. what's the common denominator in all their swings? >> probably if there is one single thing that they all did, all of those people that you mentiod, is that they all practiced and focused enough to internalize what they need to do

to perform under pressure on the ultimate stage: they all swung differently. there's no two of those swings that are alike. now hogan was before my time. i was 12, 13 years old and i actually saw him play and watched him and was amazed. i mean, he was... shoot, i was the size of hogan. he was a little bitty guy and... but he hit the ball hard and he controlled it incredibly well and he didn't putt very well but he hit it so well that in those days with not a field of the strength that we've had today he could still win a lot of tournaments. and then there was byron nelson who was right with him but much better around the greens than hogan. so that got buy problem into the championship ring. and then sneed was the athlete. he could hit it a mile by these guys but his short game was really poor, really... weak. and as you come forward in time,

palmer had the worst swing of all of them. arnold palmer, everybody loves him, he's the king, we love him today. he's got the best personality out there even today. he and phil, i think, are the most fan-friendly golfers that have ever lived. >> rose: but he had a swing that nobody should copy. >> absolutely not. and then... but he hit the ball fairly well, i mean he hit it way better... >> rose: won the masters how many times? (laughs) >> six, i think. he was great. as you move forward, video came in. it became a used phenomena and teaching got better and the swings get better and better and better. but the short games of all the modern players. if you look at tiger, he has a great short game. look at phil, he has a great short game. that's where lee has been unbelievably great ball striker. a little short in the short game and that's why he hasn't won majors yet. the same thing with dustin. >> rose: can everybody learn the short game? >> oh, yeah. oh, yeah. that's the wonderful thing about that part of the game.

doesn't require strength, speed, intelligence, talent. the best players... >> rose: what does it require? >> work. work and understanding and learning. learning. charlie, the great thing about this game is it can be learned. i mean, my favorite student, an 82-year-old man, 82, shot his lifetime low round as a 12 hong kong and won a tournament he'd played in over 40 times. that's my success story of a career. >> rose: tom friedman, who's a very good golfer, he is committed to the idea of shooting his age. >> rose: if you learn the techniques of the short game, the proper techniques, where to set the ball, how to use your hands or not use your hands, not... these little muscles here are way overused in the game. because when you get excitement, adrenaline flowing, you get stronger, your muscles get stronger, if you're swinging a stroke, if you're putting with a stroke, you can see the length and the speed of the putter and you can... your mind can control it when the heat is on. adrenaline. if you're doing this and hitting

the puts and trying to control the speed of the distance and the muscles get stronger, you're gone. you're shot. >> rose: your wrists should be out of the game, shouldn't in the >> well in the short game in putting in the large part the power should be out of it. >> rose: tom, can you hear he? in tom friedman? dave pelz says you're one hell of a putter. (laughter) >> well, dave, i am here to openly and avowedly endorse dave pelz. i've been to his short game school and he is a fantastic... playing better than ever. >> rose: did you hear what i said to him about you? >> i did. (laughs) >> rose: that's true, isn't it? is it true? >> absolutely. (laughs) >> rose: what's your hong kong today? about two or three? how are you playing? >> i'm four or five. >> rose: and you played with the president, yes? or can you say that? >> i have, yes. >> rose: how's the president's game? >> he's not bad. you know, for someone who has not played the game his whole life. >> rose: you've played it your entire life. >> yup.

>> rose: if you could change one thing about your game, what would it be? >> from 100 yards in. >> rose: (laughs) >> that's why you made the trip down to austin, i bet. >> you better believe it. >> rose: dave, thank you so much. pleasure to have you here. the book is "dave pelz's golf without fear: how to play the ten most feared shots in golf with confidence." friedman doesn't need this book so i won't send it to him. thank you, dave. >> thank you very much, charlie. it's been a pleasure. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org