>> charlie: welcome to our program. tonight a conversation with dominique strauss-kahn of the international monetary fund. >> the problem you have to solve in china but you have also to solve the deficit problem in the u.s. and the deficit problem in the u.s. i won't say it's not linked to the currency and the exact that china is under value in our view substantially undervalued. but that's not the whole story. >> charlie: we conclude this evening with sir simon rattle. ♪ >> i want to hear a story being told. i want to hear ... i want to hear that if the violas play a phrase in different way, i want

to react. i want to hear different enclosures, i want to hear the musickic shimmer. i want it to be when one note begins and ends. you want all kinds of things that are impossible to gather. and you want people to breathe together in one way. so a lot of impossibility. >> charlie: dom next strauss-kahn and sir simon rattle when we continue. maybe you want school kids to have more exposure to the arts. maybe you want to provide meals for the needy. or maybe you want to help when the unexpected happens. whatever you want to do, members project from american express can help you take the first step. vote, volunteer,

or donate for the causes you believe in at membersproject.com. linchpin of policy organization. during the melt down of 2008 the broker rescued packages for pakistan, hungry and ukraine. this year it saw the bail 1kwr0u9 of greece and ireland. it continues to be the euro zone and the risk of more bail outs. the situation in europe remains troubling and the future is more uncertain than ever. he's also an established name in french politics and is expected by some to go back home at some point and consider running for president in 2012. i am please to do have dominique strauss-kahn back on this program. welcome. >> thank you. >> charlie: what do you expect from this session in brussels. >> today. >> charlie: yes. >> well, not much. let's be candid. i think it needs a little more time to be able to produce a

comprehensive package. and that's really the question in the u.s. when the greece problem appeared some four months to make a decision. it was faster with the irish problem. but still it's kind of a piecemeal approach. what i think is to have a comprehensive plan facing all the different problems, the fiscal deficit, the banking problem. and unless the leaders in europe will provide, market will still believe that after one country comes another and another one and another end. so there really now is to have a big plan as soon as possible. he understand that the leaders are aware that it takes some time. that's the problem. you have 16 countries and each is to make a decision in the decision-making process. >> charlie: you in fact once said they've got a common currency but they don't have you

common fiscal policy. >> true. that's since the beginning. i'm a big advocate of the single currency and provides a lot of results. but at the same time you need to have a coordinate, minimum coordinator. and each and every country is doing what it wants, not taking into account having the same currency the same monetary policy. it can't work. >> charlie: what they disagree on is the idea of a euro bond. where are you on it. what do you think of the euro bond. >> the idea of the euro bond would be botched by the different countries. i think that's an idea that has to be worked out. but the problem is that you can't deal with a question like this one in the middle of crises. in union especially the euro now, introducing something

totally new, requiring approval by the different party is something which is true on the process. >> charlie: is it the right answer but too complicated? >> not only too complicated. it's politically very different. the decision will be made in the center with the nations. many anyway feel it's the right way to go but it's really a political choice. and until thousand the choice hasn't been made with the different countries, germany, france, italy are maintaining some freedom on the decision. and especially in germany but not only in germany, the man in the street is very keen to keep the tone. so i think it's very difficult for them to build something like especially at the moment where it appears that it will be used for bailing out some other countries having the same virtues and economic behavior that the germans. >> charlie: and the chancellor is against it.

>> yes, that's why america is so strongly against it. >> charlie: so when you look at spain today, how bad a shape is spain. >> they're not in good shape but i don't think the spanish situation is as bad as many say. >> charlie: even though media just announced -- >> i can't call on the rating agencies because i'm not a rating agency for rating agencies. well the situation is not good. nobody will tell you that it's good. but the problem in the banking sector is limited to small number of banks. the big banks are safe and so i thinkñi it's manageable. it's manageable. i would say it's a problem which is close. we're talking about fiscal deficit, the banking sector. all this would appear to focus. the real question is what's the engine for growth in the coming ten years. >> charlie: how did you it could be

boosted on. one hand on the democracy side. the only place in the world where it's going to decrease and that's not something which will boost growth. on the other hand they need to have some sort of reforms making the economy more innovative and this has been safe for years not only by the imf but other institutions too. and they move very go very slowly and they do something. it would be unfair to say they do nothing but they're not acting fast enough. so the question of growth and the growth of unemployment is the real question. >> charlie: can you have austerity and growth at the same time? >> well, no. the question is not to have austerity, the question is to have a midterm conservation plan for the fiscal. but on the short term when we

have some room, you should use it. depends on the country. some countries have no room at all. greece, ireland. some have it. it's not right to say it looks contradictory to fix the fiscal problem at the same time we absolutely need to support growth. the answer depends on the country. it's very diverse, that's part of the problem which could be part of the solution. >> charlie: in greece you've got people in the streets, is it politically liable to have the kind of austerity that is demanded of those governments? >> well, i think a few things. first, the greek government is very bold. and take action as it has to be done. of course people don't like it. but you know, the man on the street also have to understand they absolutely need the greek

economy. and there were no other. so it's tough, difficult especially for the most vulnerable and trying to manage the situation and that it's protected. but on the other hand the fact the man on the street understand what's going on leads to the result of the election they just had a month ago where the government finally won the election. surprisingly for many but won the election. what does that mean? it means that the demonstration, protesters which i can understand. and if i was a greek citizen, maybe we would be demonstrating the same way because it's unfair. it's not their responsibility that the situation is so dire. on the other hand most be sold s it's very difficult. but they understand it. and that's why i guess they will succeed. >> charlie: and great britain have protesters as well. even attacked prince charles'

car as a result of cutting education benefits. tuition benefits. >> yes. the problem is that the governments have to choose, they do, what kind of measure. >> charlie: tell me how youo. see the global economy over the next year. >> the recovery has arrived, still going on. but the recovery is very uneven. i will just talk about the economy is very sluggish and the other part of the world asia is a well-known example. but also maybe more surprisingly south america is doing very well. >> charlie: turkey. >> turkey. african countries with a low level of output but growth is coming back which is very good news. so in most part of the world, large part of the world growth is coming back. d not bad but it's uneven.

unevenness itself creates roots or seeds of a possible crises. especially because when you have high process peck of growth in some part of the world and very low growth in other part of the world, it kind of flows from one part to the other one which is just normal. there's nothing wrong with that. but the problem is the flow is too big for the countries to receive it without being totally disturbed and then you may have disruption in the merging countries where a couple are huge. we're talking about turkey and others. and this kind of disruption can be part of the problem we're going to be facing in the coming years. >> charlie: what is your role. >> i have three roles. one is the role of firefighter when have a country really in crises. we are provide is resources and advice. and the second rule is to try to coordinate, helping coordinate

the global economy because, you know, it's a big lesson, no domestic solution to global problems. and corporation was really what was avoiding something as being the great depression. you remember two years ago, two and-a-half years ago most people will say that we will have something as severe as the questionment and we avoided it. i'm not saying we didn't have any crises at all but we avoided something. why? just because different countries, big countries disapproved, the most important countries decided to work together and they defeated. so the question today is that many may believe wrongfully in my view that the crises is over and go back to their domestic problem and forget all about the global coordination. so although we try to force this coordination among the g20 countries. >> charlie: how do you do that. that's the key issue, the coordination for the future. >> the body which has emerged

during this crises as a resolution, crises managing is the g20. >> charlie: most recent meeting there was no sense -- there seemed to be basic differences. >> yes. that's just normal. countries have different interests. the problem is to show them that even as they have different interests, they're better off if they work together. everybody is doing his homework rather than trying to find domestic solution. and that's the rule, we provide studies, we provide advice showing that the win/win solution. everybody decides to do for himself and then you have the jobs in terms of people left out in poverty if you work together. the chinese didn't have to do, the americans, the europeans and so on. you're talking about china and

the so-called global imbalances, the fact that one half of the resources of the crises is having countries with big sur fusses, china is a good example and the u.s. being the other example. >> charlie: china only has surfaces with about two, three countries, germany and the united states. it's at a deficit with most countries. >> yes, because china is importing a lot of commodities. >> charlie: right. from brazil and chile and things like that. >> yes, that's true. another amazing thing is when it happened in the last six months or so, the chinese surplus decreases. the u.s. deficit doesn't decrease. other countries is taking the service for themselves and it's a two-fold problem. you have to solve the surface problem in china but solve the deficit problem in the u.s. and the deficit problem in the u.s. i weent say is not linked to the currency and the fact that the chinese currency is undervalued in our view,

substantially undervalued but that's not the whole story. >> charlie: why is everybody you been successful in getting the chinese to appreciate that or do they appreciate it and say we have other things we have to do and other priorities having to do with employment. >> it's a country that's serving 100 million people. they are trying to get them out of poverty, developing jobs and creating consumption and they choose the one policy which is to shiftrom totally export model to a more domestic model. that's fine, as a result of this will be the increasing the value of the country. when we talk with the chinese they tell us we understand but we're in charge how far our own people and we have to deal with our own people which is just fair. the same thing is the same with other countries. try to explain to everybody that there is a win/win scenario in which everybody will be better off and providing that --

>> charlie: but the coordination and everybody not looking at the domestic financial. >> the scenario is for instance for them to revalue all the time. it's not going to happen over night and asking for immediate evaluation of remedy. i'm probably wrong because it's more disturbing for the chinese economy and as a consequence because of the global economy and other kinds of economy. so the idea of moving together to reduce, the idea that you have kind of a silver bullet that can solve your own problem without any costs. in the u.s. economy the deficit is a big question. today the main question is to support growth. but in the median term solution has to be found to do it through the deficit. so this will not be filled by moving chinese currency. >> charlie: can't be encouraged by the response of the deficit commission because

they couldn't get 14 people to -- >> well the commission was not that bad. it was good and should be followed. it won't be but the mead -- >> charlie: the recommendation, you looked at it and you said that's the right way to go in terms of attacking the american deficit over the long run. >> yes, exact legal the problem is the median. the short term not only for the u.s. but also for the global economy because it's a big part of the global economy to boost growth and find any way to avoid possibility of a so-called double difficult is the main priority. but you're right. in the median and long term notice the idea. >> charlie: do you think we're past the idea of slipping into a double recession. >> well, we don't believe that

we do double dips. i won't say the double dip is impossible. they have the question of what i just mentioned, the emerging countries. you have the global advances we just mentioned too. if all these problems at the same time began to explode, then the double dip. >> charlie: is the biggest risk there being able to contain issues of sovereign debt? for example, meaning sure that no contagion that spain had than either ireland or greece, correct. >> yes. >> charlie: therefore if you can't contain pressure on spain and deal with their own debt issues, then -- >> true. on the other hand you have other resources to deal with. the question is really an

institutional question for them to be able to deal with the difficulties appearing in one of the countries. you're right in saying that spain is a much bigger piece. >> charlie: and you can't afford containment coming out of spain. >> contain many comes out of everywhere. ireland, a small country. the but its influence on the banking sector, the shadow banking sector is huge. so the spill over from the irish may be much bigger than the size of the economy. you can't be sort the size of the economy to know what may take place. the question on the contingent is the right question, absolutely right in saying this. and to make sense in a economy like the spanish economy is exactly what the european need today and the decision to do that have a lot of political education in terms of some countries bailing out some other countries and that's what they have. >> charlie: these banks, the german banks, spanish banks,

french banks that hold a lot of this debt. >> well, certainly it's not the best investment they did but i think that other states are safe. capitalized, most of them, all of them. so even if they have some losses in investment it puts the bank at risk. you may have small banks. >> charlie: and should they be sharing the pain, though people that hold the debt? >> that's the very big question. on one hand when you have the problem, you know that the taxpayer was paid and not the banking system. on the other hand, what you want is to avoid the collapse of the banking system because if it collapses, then it would be even more harmful for the people. so the solution is to have what we call kind of a tax insurance premium on the banking sector in

normal times to accumulate resources that could be using instead of going to taxpayers asking for money. but this kind of tax is modern place. i'm afraid we don't have a lot of success with it. so the question of what kind should be put on the crises. the decision which hasn't been made until now is the stability of the system is more important and the problem of contain many that you're talking about is more important than anything else. and so no such hacker in place. >> charlie: -- he elected prime minister to in a sense fake over and buy into banks and provide capital for banks and percentage of ownership for

banks rathern't simply taking out the troubled assets as they say in america. is that the right way to go? >> it may be the right way to go for -- >> charlie: that's what i mean. >> and then you have to go back in the market. >> charlie: which is what happened here. >> it's exactly what will happen and is happening in ireland where the bank in such a bad situation that the state had to take over. and that's exactly the same thing that happened in northern previously in the uk. so that's a possible solution. that's technical solution. beyond all this you have the same problem which is the final taxpayer has to pay for a mistake. and it's absolutely unacceptable that the bank may take a huge risk.

and the result of high losses then who has to pay the losses. so you have to fine and that's why that will finally make them pay for him seven and insuring himself against the risk he's taking. >> charlie: is the role now to sit there with funds or is the role more to be there with suggestions to be there to sort of forge a new set of cooperation and collaboration. >> yes. i told you we have firefighter, coordinator. the one we mentioned now which is trying to change the international system in providing from the imf a kind of insurance to countries so that they will not have only to fix problems but to prevent problems. and the resources we have, that's huge but significant may be used as a precautionary reserve for countries. i'm just back from mexico.

the mexicans have used a new facility we have created two years ago and just called a flexible quote line which is providing the right person for ireland. we're not asking ireland to change the behavior because there's nothing wrong -- >> charlie: we're asking them to change their behavior. you're asking them to change their behavior because you're asking them to adapt to a different kind of fiscal policy. >> who are you talking about. >> charlie: anybody. talking about greece, ireland, spain, anybody, the united states. >> right. the analogy of those countries is like going to the doctor. the doctor comes and gives you medicine. medicine is money but at the same time you have to change your behavior. >> charlie: kind of a maintenance for the future. >> mexico a different case. with a don't ask them to change anything. but then it's the environment. so there's two ways to do it. one way is it accumulates the

reserves and the possible way because it's money. another way if you kind of collect the pot which is imf where if needed you have kind of a contract with imf telling that if you need the reserves we will provide them with reserves. and i just did this with mexico discussing something that was rather significant because something as big as $72 billion. they may not need it that they know that they don't -- they better rely on imf. that's a big change in the rule of time. it goes back to the use of institution 60 years ago. in 1944 people were talking about this idea having something which regulates the system. >> charlie: qualitative easing by the federal reserve. chinese who had resisted appreciation of their currency said what are you doing. this is wrong. look what you're doing.

it's unfair to us. >> well i was surprised you didn't ask the question earlier. >> charlie: yes. >> you know, the u.s. economy is still the leading economy. and growth in the u.s. is the most important thing. if growth goes on, maybe enough, as high as we could wish but strong enough, then if we have a lot of consequences on the global question. on the contrary, if they were -- it's of vital importance for the global economy that there is growth. so creates a lot of problem. >> charlie: wasn't just china, but brazil and other places. >> even china and brazil who have a lot of problems if growth doesn't go on in the u.s. the main concern for everybody, not at any cost of course, but the main concern has to be to maintain growth in the leading country.

>> charlie: what would be your advice to countries to look at the changing dynamic of emerging nations is where most of the economic growth is and it comes from. >> before they have to realize that they were changing time where the u.s. blast the european country in the denominating world is going to be over. >> charlie: not dominate but still be a part of the new structure. >> exactly. the balance has changed and it has to take us into a balance. still there's a big role for the advanced economy and my main concern is about innovation and education. because that's the real place where you can invest and still keep comparative advantage compared to other emerging countries. those are countries very fast that's good for us because they create new demand. but if you want to be able to compete, you need to keep

advanced and the place in which we can't have this kind of advance is research and education. >> charlie: science, education and research that you take advantage of those skills and technology leads that you have and make sure that you do that. when will you make a decision as to whether you will go back to france and try to get the nomination of president because the polls now show you at like 65%. and the president who i assume will run again. >> we were just talking for a few minutes about the global economy and not thinking about anything else. >> charlie: you've got to be thinking about it because everybody asks you to think about it and you can't postpone that very long. 2012 is around the corner. >> i'm too busy to think about it. >> charlie: you're not saying though but you're saying i'm

postponing a decision about that? >> well it's not my problem today even 2012 is not so far. 2012 is 2012. today i have a job, i have to do it. i can't say it's a part time job so really i'm focused on that. >> charlie: fair enough. it's up to you. i cannot imagine you not running to be president for france. i cannot imagine you not having, not wanting to be in a position to have the opportunity to do that. can you? >> i'll give my answer. >> charlie: thank you for joining us. dominique strauss-kahn managing director of the imf, the man at the top of the polls in consideration for a presidential race in france that takes place in 2012. pack in a moment. stay with us.

>> charlie: sir simon rattle is here. he's the art tick and chief conductor of the berlin philharmonic. it's one of the world's greatest orchestra. here's a look at what he does. ♪ >> like with every other society, the orchestra has a culture. it has a culture of playing. and when you come into it from the outside and somebody like myself who was inexperienced, you maybe don't quite pick up the subtleties of it at the beginning. last three. ♪ much

>> there's many different types of people in this orchestra as you can imagine. and yet everybody is somehow searching for something that's together. it's what we aspire two. >> charlie: he's known with other composers. i'm pleased to have him here at this table once again. welcome. >> thank you. >> charlie: i hope you know every time we hear you near new york we go in pursuit of you. >> you're very sweet. >> charlie: we do. and here's what. this is your debut at the metropolitan opera, the

philharmonica. >> it has a long schedule and opera far away is difficult. i was bringing up children, i didn't want to be away so long. now we've rather solved it by bringing our children with it. >> charlie: she's in the opera. >> exactly. she's been here a lot. but it's the last year before our eldest goes to school so in a way it's my last chance to do it. i've been listening to the met for 35 years. i've been on the other side so stand up there once is really something very special. >> charlie: for a man of your experience and talent >> when i stepped into the stage door and i saw all these people going in different directions and just remembered again what a huge machine the met is, how many pieces are put on any one

time. within 15 minutes of putting the stick down with the orchestra, i felt like i was at home. with not only old slippers but kind of sushi grade slippers. i'm just beginning to learn why it's legendary but so simpatico. >> charlie: why is it legendary. >> well, they are one of greatest, if not the greatest opera orchestras in the world. and they can switch from style to style. almost without thinking. because they have to put on so much so fast, they've developed a way just simply reacting. so my feeling is that a lot of the conductor's work is done for him by their intelligence. i rarely come across a group that concentrates so hard in rehearsal. >> charlie: so if a guest conductor goes to the berlin

philharmonic, there was an orchestra that you've shaped, hugely talent players. but you have shaped them. and they come in and it's your orchestra. >> they do pieces i've done a lot. they're going to get to know a lot about me as well as about the orchestra. and you do, you feel the influence of the person who has been there. and of course when i come to the met, jimmy lavine has been there for 40 years. and you feel not only the work but you also feel that he's treated these people with love and respect so you feel familiar quality. but you feel the work. and it generally remind me occasionally of conductors. >> charlie: is there any bit of, show me how good you are?

>> there is a wonderful thing about being conductor of the bush lynn philharmonic is that other orchestras that imagine the philharmonic. actually we are really good too but it's also just to do with time. but they, the people in an opera are interested not only in playing their notes but what they mean and telling the story. andçó the greater the opera orchestra, the more they will tell the story with the stage. and i see and hear the players listening to the singers and reacting to their every number. oh, they need a little more time, oh, they're moving on. and i see this happen in a split second. and it's wonderful, i tell you it's wonderful to be up there also watching the reaction between musician down and

musician up. >> charlie: is it fair to say because who you are and what you do, you prefer if you had to choose between being the conductor of the philharmonic orchestra than being conductor of a major opera. >> i think when you run a huge opera company, there's an unbelievable amount of extra musical things to do and organizational things to do. and there are very few people in the world with a repertoire as wide as james lavine immersed in vienna. certainly not me. i love the theatre and i loft being involved in different theatres, i love the back stage process, i love seeing how the people are together and so for me i have this privilege of going to a different place of

seeing what this is. >> charlie: what's the opera you're working with? >> the opera now. it's an incredible masterpiece from the turn of the 20th century. for anyone, anyone who loves theatre, it's like the musical equivalent of czechov, these people who are trapped and living together trying to get away but never managed. and of all the operas, one of the most sensuously beautiful from start to finish and one of the saddest. >> charlie: saddest because. >> because they don't get away. because people die and the families- >> charlie: die in operas all the time. >> exactly.

it's like a czechov and one really feels it and you feel that the people who are left, there's just a sadness going on and on. i don't mean to make it sound like a suicidal piece. but it's a piece of just immense music. >> charlie: and your wife will be singing the part. >> yes. it's an opera we've done together a number of times. >> charlie: did you choose this? did they say we would like to have you in 2010. >> peter gelb who runs the opera house, he said look magdalena's come here a lot, i want you as her husband to come here with her and do something. what would you like to do. which is very typical of him. there's a great production here from johnathan miller. >> charlie: right. >> and what conditions do you need. and musicians don't often get

offers like that. >> charlie: what did you say the conditions you needed. >> we need time. i need time with the orchestra. simply time which is the hardist thing to get in any busy working opera house. and bless them, they really have given us the time we've needed. and the cast of your dreams. >> charlie: now when you come to something like this, do you know to just say i'm going to do it as well as i can in the way that i've done it before? or do you want to say this is a big deal. i want to take some risk here. i want to expand here. >> every place they don't look at you unless you do something different. the conductor is one of the great fake professions of all times. we actually -- what do we sound like. you have no idea. i've been doing it god knows how many years, i have no idea. without the people, we are lost.

great things, you have a great orchestra and part of the business is to put them all into the same place and make it, make it work. it's utterly, i don't think there's such a thing as a bipartisan musician. the word bipartisan it's become almost a sarcastic usage. but everybody has to be in the same scene and part of the thing is not putting opposing themes together it's making the same family in a room. and so each time, of course, each time is different and nobody, if you're smart, you're never going to do it the way you've done it before. >> charlie: you're never going to do it the way you've done it before. >> one of the greatest conductors of all time says the worst thing in music is remembered emotion. don't tell me how it sounds when bruno conducted, do it yourself. make it new every time. bless him. he's right. >> charlie: tell me what it

is you want to hear as a conductor. what is it that you want to hear? >> i want to hear a story being told. i want to hear, i want to hear that if the wheel plays a phrase in a different way that the singer will hear that and react. i want to hear different colors, i want to hear the music shimmer. i want it to be a secret when the note begins and ends. you want all kinds of things that's impossible to gather. and you want people to breathe together in one way. so a lot of impossibilities. >> charlie: are you any different at the podium for an opera? >> i'm different at the podium anyway. if i was the conductor all my life, it would be unbearable. i mean i think everybody in the airts does -- arts does a jeckle

and hyde anyway. the orchestra is down and the stage is up. you are the force through which the electricity goes. a time needing an adapter plug. i'm not making it happen but it goes through that center. >> charlie: you are well-known for the expression of your own physicality on the podium. will you grant me that much. >> yes, a bit too much. i suppose it's like a jazz musician. how do you improvise well some of it just comes from god but lot of it is the experience of material that is there. and you take little pieces out of that. >> charlie: right. >> this is the fifth production

of this i've done. you have peter sellers in one, a great experimental production in berlin another. but you know oh, this has happened. this could happen, which of these do we go, on which do we take, which is new. is it impossible to talk about music. that's why we make, that's why we make music. but sometimes something really magical happens when people understand something together and you feel oh, this is different. it couldn't have been any other way, just now. >> charlie: is there any other sacred place that you haven't played that you want to conduct? or does this round it up for you? >> oh, i think there's a number of places i haven't played. i haven't played in the

theatre -- for instance. there are a number of great orchestras i haven't worked for. >> charlie: like? >> like the statscopela and lipsieg. and of course one of the other things is there are extraordinary new concert halls being built all over the world. and new orchestras coming up. there are new people to work with all the time and it keeps you young or at least childish. >> charlie: is this always within you a desire to express new pieces of music from new composers at the same timesñr to reflect all the greatness that music had. >> look, it's very easy. explore what's already there. if we don't keep on producing new work, we will die and we

will deserve to die. i just had this year at 55, my first performance of depression. i'm glad i waited that long. unforgettable for me. but at the same time we premiered a month later an extraordinary new swing symphony by winton marsalis. we thought these are two of the great pillars of what we did of all time. >> charlie: are we doing it, though. >> we are, we are. >> charlie: are you get ag chance of exposure so it will be appreciated in its own time. >> parts of the thing about any great masterpiece, and that's any new great masterpiece is that you need to play them again

and again and again. the first performance of what it must have been like, i shudder to think. in a few days i conduct a concerto which was written in the 1990's and was one of the greatest pieces of the last century without a doubt. it is still on the edge of everybody's possibility to play. when you do, you know you've reached a masterpiece on the level of bach. they are still there but we have to work even harder. you have to play like it was bach like you knew it as well as that. >> charlie: what is it about your learning curve. >> somebody said to me simon all the really good conductors are over 60, preferably over 70. you are no exception, so don't be in too much of a hurry.

they start getting competent after 60. i can't wait to be competent. >> charlie: you seriously think that's the way they do it. >> they are right. i mean just as you're only competent after 60. have you to do it that long. wisdom comes with al sex perience. also comes with screwing it up enough times to know. i'm looking forward to that. so ... >> charlie: when you see someone young, do you look at him and say man, because you can identify with it. >> there is a generation of conductru come up of which gustavo is an incredible example who are so good and have such old heads on young shoulders. thank god, i mean thank god

gustav has still got a few things to learn. >> charlie: exactly. >> but i've heard concerts from imhad, i've heard concerts which are so masterly. and it's funny. i thought to myself, well am i going to feel bad about this. actually i'm thrilled, i'm thrilled to sit and listen to this next generation coming up. gustavo has been doing it since he was in his prime. but he has an uncanny physical ability to convey what he wants. and such a charm that any orchestra is not going to do it. gustavo is that going to do it for anyone. >> charlie: an uncanny ability to convey what he wants. >> yes. and what he wants will change. sometimes it's really a young man's music.

but it should be. >> charlie: it will change because his experience five years now is different from i -- his experience today and how he plays it and interprets it is not the way you interpret it and that's the way we want him because we want him to be him. >> yes and these young music cisions will hopefully be allowed to become themselves and not be corporate. people in the theatres say young theatre directors are ordinary. it can be for conductors as well. we just all hope we have a chance to grow. >> charlie: what would be your advice for him what you just said. anybody of that generation? >> well to gustavo, take a holiday with your young family now. but actually -- >> charlie: but did you

follow your own advice. >> yes. >> charlie: you did. >> i was given advice by one of the greatest of all conductors, carlo. two words. hurry slowly. >> charlie: hurry slowly. >> i was not a gifted prodigy in the way gustavo and some of the others are. >> charlie: what are uncanny gifts for a conductor? >> gifts of expression. gifts that's allowed people to play because again don't forget we're fakes. but we can stop them from playing. when i had as a student this experience of ten conductors, i was one of them, walking in front of an orchestra and each making a different sound without speaking. you realize there is something that happens and the really gifted people have an ability to make a shape in the air as the greatest of us all. and you look at him, you could look at him without music and

you can sing the music. >> charlie: yes, -- why is hee greatest of all? >> he has the most committee gift of showing what it is. i mean when i see barishnokov, i know the gesture and exactly what he means and that was the same with carlo. i will bet you every conductor in the world is watching carlos. i sat next to bernard in the garden in strauss -- excuse me in othello. we sat over the pit and ten minutes in he nudged me and said mimen,

mime -- simon i don't know you but it's just beginning. >> charlie: the nut cracker. >> that's a little piece of help. >> charlie: is this a new piece of heaven you're giving us. >> it is, absolutely. we just recorded it. i grew up in a family actually who didn't like tchaikovsky. it was one of these things i discovered late in life and i always said this isn't music for me. and then someone said would you please just go and buy a score of the nut cracker finally and read through it and stop talking this nonsense. >> charlie: you did? >> so we just recorded it with an orchestra. we don't play it in germany like you play it here every year. most of the orchestra had never played it in their lives. the famous students of course after the hundred. but it's a gold mine of musical

miracles. >> charlie: and the orchestra loved it. >> they loved it. we worked like hell. it's very hard to play. everyone knows it. they're not interested it's hard for us to play, they want it to sound good. so we had to work. >> charlie: sir simon rattle will be at the metropolitan opera for perforces on the 23rd, 29th and january 1st. this new from emi classics, tchaikovsky the nutcracker. always a pleasure to have you here. >> thank you so much. >> charlie: we will leave you with the nutcracker. here it is. ♪