captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> lehrer: hurricane irene struck the north carolina coast today, as mandatory evacuations were ordered along the eastern seaboard from the outer banks to new york city. good evening. i'm jim lehrer. >> brown: and i'm jeffrey brown. on the newshour tonight, we talk to ed rappaport of the national hurricane center about tracking the storm; craig fugate of fema on emergency preparations; and michael grynbaum of "the new york times" about the city's unprecedented precautions. >> lehrer: then, we get the latest from libya. ray suarez talks with lindsey hilsum of independent television

news in tripoli. >> there's still this huge sense of joy here that however hard the conditions are, whenever you talk to people and you say how are you feeling, they say i'm free. we're free, free at last. >> brown: mark shields and david brooks analyze the week's news. >> lehrer: and hari sreenivasan has the story of washington's new memorial honoring doctor martin luther king, jr. >> 48 years after the civil rights leader gave his famous i have a dream speech, a monument dedicated to him has opened. but not before going through a struggle of its own. >> lehrer: that's all ahead on tonight's newshour. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> well, the best companies are driven by new ideas. >> our future depends on new ideas. we spend billions on advanced technologies. >> it's all about investing in the future. >> we can find new energy-- more cleaner, safer and smarter.

>> collaborating with the best in the field. >> chevron works with the smartest people at leading universities and tech companies. >> and yet, it's really basic. >> it's paying off everyday. >> and by bnsf railway. the william and flora hewlett foundation, working to solve social and environmental problems at home and around the world. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: from north carolina to new england today, much of the east coast faced a weekend assault by hurricane irene. up to 65 million americans were in its path, and even though top winds dropped to 100 miles an

hour, officials warned the storm could be one of the most damaging in decades. the warnings came from the very top, with president obama saying irene could be "a historic hurricane." >> i cannot stress this highly enough-- if you are in the projected path of this hurricane, you have to take precautions now. don't wait, don't delay. we all hope for best, but we have to be prepared for the worst. >> brown: images from space showed the big storm churning north at a relatively slow 14 miles an hour. the eye was expected to strike along the outer banks of north carolina by early saturday morning. from there, it could skirt east of washington, before crossing near philadelphia, and blowing through new jersey and new york city late saturday night and into sunday morning. for north carolinians, the threat intensified through the day as winds began to build. thousands of people spilled into cars and made the trek inland.

governor bev perdue warned all those along the state's coast-- and not just on the outer banks- - to evacuate. >> as governor of this state, i want to remind you this hurricane is real. we continue to pray for the best. i urge every citizen along the coastal plains to evacuate. it is so much better to be safe than sorry. >> brown: despite the warnings, there were still people swimming today and stalwart locals prepared to stick it out. >> we've been getting prepared, and we know a lot of people are leaving town and preparing themselves for what might be severe, but we're just happy to keep doing what we always do. >> probably some scariness in the wind. i'll probably be scared, but we'll get through it. >> brown: but emergencies were declared in at least six states and the district of columbia.

and up and down the east coast, national, state, and local officials added to the urgency. >> given the amount of rain associated with this storm and the likelihood of flooding, don't focus on whether its category 2 or 3. if you are in storm path, you won't be able to tell much difference. >> be prepared-- stay safe. be smart. evacuate, if necessary; otherwise, please stay inside. >> exercise extreme caution tomorrow afternoon when the winds begin to pick up. >> if for some reason you were thinking of going to dinner in atlantic city, forget it and go somewhere else. >> brown: in new york city, the mass transit system-- serving eight million riders a day-- planned to close at noon on saturday, something it's never done in advance of a storm. and mayor michael bloomberg ordered the evacuation of 270,000 people from low-lying areas. >> we've never done a mandatory

evacuation before. the best outcome would be if the storm veers off to the east and doesn't hit us. but we can't depend on mother nature being so kind. >> brown: some in the region summoned memories of the great hurricane of 1938 that killed as many as 800 people. also known as the "long island express", it devastated the new york city region before ravaging new england. it was the first major hurricane to strike there since 1869. and today, the wreckage across the bahamas gave a glimpse of what irene may have in store for the u.s., with millions of dollars in property damage and major power outages. in the meantime, the storm was already wreaking havoc with air travel, with a number of flights already cancelled and hundreds more likely. amtrak service up and down the

coast was curtailed, as well, at least through sunday. irene's approach also forced organizers in washington to cancel sunday's dedication of the new martin luther king, jr., memorial. and the storm prompted the president to shorten his vacation on martha's vineyard, massachusetts, by one day, heading back to washington before irene makes landfall. now to a series of interviews on irene and the preparations. i spoke to craig fugate, the head of fema, the federal emergency management agency. he's been briefing the president regularly, and i spoke with him a short time ago in washington. craig fugate, welcome. this is both, of course, a national issue and an intensely local one. what's your main priority right now? >> well, the main priority for everybody is supporting the evacuations that the local officials are having to order and may have to add to as the storm moves north. and getting ready for the immediate response afterwards and supporting the governors as they prepare for hurricane irene. >> brown: are you satisfied with these evacuations

orders and the orders so far? >> well yeah, i think the local officials are doing a good job. they know their areas. the hurricane center is providing the best possible information and we're seeing a lot of activity. and people are not even waiting for the evacuation orders, a lot are taking the time to get to a safe area just in case. >> and when you're looking at such a huge swathe of the country, the whole eastern coast, what kind of coordination issues are there for you and how well is that going? >> well, again, we have teams that have gone into the states that were most immediately impacted early on. so we already had teams in north carolina for several days. we have teams that have gone into the mid-atlantic and now in the new england states. again our goal is to be there for the hurricane hits, to be part of the governor's team. so we're not having to play catch-up if we get damages. we're working together, up and down the i-95 corridor and so again we're doing what we need to do to get ready but we also ask the public to prepare. there's still some time for folks but it's going to run out.

so we are encouraging people to take steps to get ready, heed those evacuation orders. and if they haven't taken those steps they can still go to ready.gov or m.fema.gov to get information. >> brown: talk a little bit about one of the key issues here. there are big population centers in the storm away, new york, new jersey on up into new england. places in particular that are not used to this sort of thing. so how worried are you about their ability to cope? >> well, you know, let's take new york city. this is a home community that has been through the terrorist attacks but we've also been doinging a lot of planning up there, with the mayor's team and the state team about hurricanes. and so a lot of people may not realize this but city of new york has been doing a lot of preparation and planning for hurricanes. and now they're implementing those plans. so while they have not had a lot of hurricanes they've been really working hard to get ready for one. >> let me ask you finally and briefly about another big concern is the power grid. the outages that are expected.

how does that work. is that all left to the power companies or is there a coordination among them and state and federal agencies? >> we work together and our lead agency for that here at the federal level is the department of energy which leads our emergency energy group. but most of it is going to be the private sector restoration with some of the government doing that but we do work as a team. what we're doing is bringing in generators ahead of time for those critical facilities that may need emergency power. but we do expect that there could be widespread power outages and it could take days to weeks in some areas. that's why we're encouraging people to get ready now and prepare for power outages even if you are not along the coast. we think the heavy rainfall and power outages could be some of the more significant impacts well inland. >> brown: felta director craig fugate, thanks so much. >> brown: ed rappaport, deputy director of the national hurricane center. so with everyone now focused on the storm's track, what

are you seeing and what are the main variables? >> this is-- has a couple unusual aspects. of course the one you have been talking about already, and that is a threat for the northeastern united states. probably the most significant tropical event for some areas in the last 20 years there. what makes this also different is that while the strength of the storm is down a little bit, it's not nearly as strong as some we've seen in the past it is still a significant threat. and one of the reasons is because it is so large. the area of hurricane force winds will take close to 10 hours to pass some areas and tropical storm force winds could be sustained for 24 hours in other locations too. so there is a concern about the duration of the storm. in addition, those winds are going to raise the water level, the storm surge by 4 to 8 feet over portions of the coastline all the way from north carolina to southern new england. so dual concerns there along with some possibility of excessive rainfall and fresh water floods inland to the

west of the center. >> brown: and as you watch this, you were just talking about the strength issue. i don't know if you heard janet napolitano about inn the taped piece talking about whether it it's a three, whether it's a two, it's still powerful, something to be concerned about. but what strengthens, what makes it pick up strength or lose strength along the way here as you're watching? >> we don't think there will be any significant strengthening. in fact the weakening trend that we've seen while slow is good news. and we think that the weakening will just-- trend will persist all the way through southern new england. that means that we're looking at a category 1 to category two landfall in north carolina and then a category 1 hurricane all the way up the u.s. coast, east coast from there, either right on the coast or just offshore into southern new england. the storm just does not have the internal structure to be able to support a very intense maximum wind. but it does have the energetics of a strong storm, it is just spread out over a

large area. >> brown: so even if it is weak and even if it is down to one, the potential damage that you are most concerned about is wind and flooding s that it? >> that's correct. the greatest threat for loss of life in a hurricane is drowning. and so we have two threats here. one is from the storm surge along the coast. the other is rainfall in the inland areas. and then again a long period of strong winds which will cause minor structural damage, will bring down many, many trees. that will be a significt problem in the northeast. >> brown: and just briefly, you said it's slow moving. what makes it so slow moving? >> well, it's embedded in a relatively slow steering current, moving from south to north. but we do expect it to accelerate over the next day or so, and to really pick up some speed later on saturday and sunday. but even so, it's going to be a prolonged siege for much of the northeast, again up to 24 hours, a tropical storm conditions there. >> brown: all right, ed rappaport thanks so much for

joining us. >> brown: lastly, we focus on the historic shutdown and evacuations in new york city. michael grynbaum is covering this for "the new york times" and joins me now. mayor bloomberg ordered the evacuation of some, it's about 300,000 people now. how do you do that in such a populous urban center? >> with great difficulty. but as you said they've been planning it for a few days now. they've had police officers, community representatives and politicians fanning out through all the communities that are right on the coastline urging residents to leave their homes, telling them that the deadline is by 5 p.m. tomorrow. they set up shelters throughout the city. there's room for about 71,000 persons. and the remainder of the city hopes will stay with relatives or friends throughout the area. >> brown: you know people, of course, on the outer banks, places like that, are used to this sort of thing they are probably not in battery park, they're not in coney island. so is there a sense of urgency? is there a sense that you've been able to pick up or

other reporters that people are taking this seriously? >> well, we just went through our first earthquake in ages a few days ago. and a lot of new yorkers were unsettled by that. you can imagine the prospect of a hurricane coming to new york city to neighborhoods like battery park, as you say, would be something that was just unthinkable a few days ago. i think people are really taken aback at the measures that are being taken here, shutting down the new york city subway system for the first time in anyone's memory, really. i mean new york city without its subway is barely the same metropolis. it's psychologically i think, taxing on the residents. >> brown: well, i know transportation is your main beat. so tell us a little bit more about that. how does one shut down the public transportation system? how easy or hard. it couldn't just be flicking a few switches, right? >> it is a sprawling feat. and ones that's almost very rarely been attempted by modern transit agencies. the subway system basically

becomes a chessboard. there are many trains, about 200 of them that are usually stored in train yards out by the water. those areas are going to be flooded if this hurricane hits as people expect it to. those trains is have to be moved into the city, into the underground tunnels spread throughout the system and stored there. which makes it impossible for them to run normal subway service since the tunnels are being used for storage. at the same time there are maintenance trains, trains that repair electrical signals, trains that pump water, they need to be moved throughout the system so they will be well-positioned on sunday night or monday to come in, assess the damage and get the thing back ready for commuters again next week. >> and you said it's flooding that is the major concern there with all the underground. >> absolutely. there are some open cut areas of the track that are exposed to the elements. but especially in lower manhattan by wall street there are stations that are very low lying right by the water line. they tend to be flooded, the signals on the tracks can short circuit.

there can be electrical problems. it makes it impossible to run the trains. coy tell you too that they are not leaving any detail unturned there are commuter rails out in the suburbs that have grade crossings with wooden gates that block cars. they're securing those gates, fastening them down so they don't fly off and damage people in vicinity. >> a major test. michael grynbaum of the new york estimates, thanks so much. >> thanks for having me. >> lehrer: still to come on the newshour: the ongoing battle in libya; shields and brooks; and the new monument to martin luther king. but first, the other news of the day. here's kwame holman. >> holman: wall street closed out the week with gains today. stocks rebounded from a sell-off after federal reserve chairman ben bernanke said the u.s. economy is on track for long- term growth. the dow jones industrial average gained more than 134 points to close at 11,284. the nasdaq rose 60 points to close near 2,480. for the week, the dow gained

more than 4%; the nasdaq was up 2.5%. a car bomb attack in nigeria today killed at least 18 people at the main u.n. building. it happened in abuja, the african nation's capital. a radical muslim group claimed responsibility. we have a report narrated by rohit kachroo of independent television news. >> reporter: terrorists strike right at the heart of the u.n.'s headquarters in nigeria. this was the chaotic aftermath of the car bomb-- many dead, many more injured. the suicide bomber got through the gates and into the compound, detonating the bomb close to the main building. the likely target-- foreigners, aid workers, diplomats. these offices are home to many humanitarian agencies.

>> this was an assault on those who devote their lives to helping others. we condemn this terrible act utterly. >> reporter: an islamist militant group, boko haram, is thought to be behind other recent attacks. most have targeted nigeria's remote northeast, which borders cameroon, chad and niger. it's feared the group has grown its links to terrorist organizations outside nigeria, including al qaeda. the country is causing concern to the counter-terrorist community. how a suicide bomber managed to get so close to the building will raise questions about security. but of greater concern is whether today's attack shows that an emerging terrorist group is prepared to target the international community. >> holman: rescue workers in mexico searched for remains today after arsonists linked to drug gangs burned down a monterrey casino. at least 52 people were killed. security camera footage showed at least eight men arriving at

the building. police said they doused the place with gasoline and set it on fire. some patrons escaped, but dozens more were trapped by the inferno. it was one of the worst attacks in the country's five-year-old drug war. today, president felipe calderon declared three days of mourning. >> as a mexican, as a head of a family, as the president i'm profoundly saddened, worried, angered. like every murderer's actions this does not have a motive or a justification. this has been the worst attempt against civilians in a long time. >> holman: calderon again blamed demand for illegal drugs in the u.s. for helping fuel the drug war in mexico. nearly 40,000 people have died in the violence since 2006. in syria, this friday brought a new round of protests, and security forces again opened fire. activists reported two people were killed. the protests involved thousands of syrians in cities such as homs in the central part of the country. the demonstrations marked the

final friday of the muslim holy month of ramadan. human rights groups say president bashar assad's forces have killed at least 2,000 people since the protests began in march. the japanese prime minister is resigning after just 15 months in office. naoto kan announced today he's stepping down. support for his government had dropped sharply over its handling of the tsunami disaster and ensuing nuclear crisis in japan. the ruling party will select a new leader on monday, the country's sixth prime minister in five years. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to jim. >> lehrer: and to libya, where rebels are taking and holding more territory. but there remains stiff resistance from loyalists of moammar qaddafi, who still eludes capture. we begin our coverage with a report from alex thomson of independent television news in tripoli. >> reporter: the odd smoldering vehicle and a few rebel fighters hanging this morning around abu salim.

a day of prayer this, in a district now quiet but battered. yesterday, the rebels said they'd take this place from colonel qaddafi's last loyalist snipers, and they did. ( gunfire ) prisoners emerging from this chaotic fighting. some reports that some such prisoners were killed before they had a chance to be dealt with properly. we spoke exclusively to the rebel commander who's led much of the fighting in tripoli. do you think the rest of the qaddafi forces will give up soon? will they surrender soon? >> ( translated ): i think so. they have no choice but to surrender or die. if anybody is still with qaddafi, tell them to surrender and give up their weapons. no other choice.

the war is over, and we deal with these small groups of gangsters. >> reporter: and that dealing comes with great human cost. abu salim hospital today, and the last injured, bewildered, terrified patients being evacuated by the red cross. >> we are just helping this hospital to evacuate their wounded. >> reporter: what are the conditions like? >> they are dreadful, conditions are dreadful. what we've seen here this morning is the red cross evacuation of the last few wounded people leaving. abu salim hospital is one vast and chaotic mortuary. there are bodies everywhere, mostly men of fighting age, but i have seen two bodies of children, and i've counted at least 75 thus far. there is no doubt the anti- qaddafi rebels have prevailed in abu salim. but today, in this awful place, we saw at what cost.

>> lehrer: ray suarez takes the story from there. he talked earlier today with itn's lindsey hilsum in tripoli. >> welcome back to the program. is there progression on the ground from the point of view of the rebels? have they been able to secure areas, bring in essential supplies, do something like consolidation in the areas they control? >> i think that there has been progress. certainly over this week. we've seen tripoli become calmer. there's still some talk of fighting, still a few snipers. but i've been traveling around every day since monday and more and more neighborhoods are secure. what seems to be happening is that you've got like neighborhood committees. these are young men and sometimes older men. and they stand on the street with their barricades, sometimes just made of chairs or old cars, burned out vehicles, anything they can find. and neighborhood watch. and they're checking the vehicles coming through, securing their own neighborhood areas.

the national transitional council from benghazi, that's in the east where the revolution started in february, some of their members have come into town now. they're trying to establish come kind of government. but of course there is still fighting over towards sert that is colonel qaddafi's hometown, about 700 kilometers from here. and there is still fighting there. so not all of libya is yet in rebel hands. >> suarez: we've seen images all week of the intense fighting that's going on in very built up urban areas. when pro qaddafi fighters are taken alive, what happens to them? >> well, there are various things that happen. a lot of pro qaddafi fighters have been filled-- killed. and i have seen the bodies of them lying on the roundabout between the compound and abu salim which is the area where they fled to in the last two or three days. the fighting there seems to have died down. but i think that it's not clear to me that many are being taken prisoner. i think most of them carried

on fighting to the end and if they carry on fighting they're killed. having said that i have come across some prisoners. now the prisoners tend to be africans from different african countries, mainly in west africa like niger, chad and so on. those i have spoken to said they are not fighters. they are not mercenaries, they are just migrant workers caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. but the people who caught them who tend to be these local neighborhood committees said to me that they are fighters but they are looking after them mainly in schools and other buildings. they are feeding them. they are not treating them badly. and at the moment i have no evidence that they are being treated badly. they will be handed over to some kind of authority when there is an authority to hand them over to. >> suarez: earlier this week various nato member militaries announced they weren't on the ground in any way in libya. but the british were busy in the air in sect which is qaddafi's hometown as you mentioned earlier. what have they been doing? >> well, they have been bombing targets which

include military facilities, mobile military facilities and so on in the sert area. i also think it is rather disingenuous to say that they're not on the ground. i think it's highly unlikely that there are no nato forces on the ground. i think that there have been some people here who have been spotting targets. and i suspect that there have been people who have been training rebel fighters as well. now those people may not have the passport of the particular nato countries. but at nato's behest i do believe that there have been people on the ground assisting the rebels in this war. >> brown: and what's the latest status of the on-again, off-again transfer of the national transitional council from benghazi in the east west to the capital tripoli. is it back on again? >> i wouldn't say it's done. there are several ministers here. but they have nowhere to live. they're trying at the moment to take up residents in the hotel where i'm speaking from. and they want to kick out

all the journalists but it's very difficult to kick out 300 journalists, i can tell you. and so they're trying to get themselves organized and it's not easement because remember, the power is on and off here. i mean we keep have power cuts. there's been no water in many parts of town for the last three, four days. supplies are very difficult to come by. there still isn't fuel. the road from tunisia is not yet fully open. so getting organized is very hard. and it's particularly difficult here in libya. because this isn't the change of government. it's the total collapse of the state. everything was around qaddafi. qaddafi was the state of libya. there is no institution which is left. so it is really year zero in libya. they're having to start absolutely from scratch. >> brown: well, this is a good time then to turn to the hundreds of thousands who aren't even involved in the fighting. are they still in the city? are they hunkered down in their apartments? can they get food? is there a way to get water? >> well, what i've seen on the streets of tripoli today

is that there are barrels of water going out and about. and people are coming out with their cans and their buckets and collecting water to take home. and sometimes you pass a queue 6 people and that's a bread queue. you do see women out now, in the last few days you see women and children out which means they feel much more secure. because before only the men were coming out on to the street. so people are putting a lot of energy and time into surviving. but they are out there. and i have to say that there is still this huge sense of joy here. that however hard the conditions are, whenever you talk to people and you say how are you feeling, they say i'm free. we're free. free at last. qaddafi is gone. so however hard it is, they're just still full of excitement, absolutely thrilled to be living this moment. >> lindsay hilsum in tripoli, thanks for talking to usment stay safe. >> thank you very much. good night. >> lehrer: and to the analysis

of shields and brooks-- syndicated columnist mark shields, "new york times" columnist david brooks. good to have both of you back. >> thank you. >> lehrer: david, does president obama deserve any praise or credit for what happened in libya? >> i think he does, a lot more than he's getting, actually. you have to remember when qaddafi was marching on the rebels and threatening to massacre them, a lot of people in this country wanted to do nothing. a lot of people in europe who were more up set about it just wanted to have sort of a no-fly zone. and obama has pushed them more aggressively than they wanted to go. so it was not just a no-fly zone, we helping the rebels we ended up helping the goal of regime phrase. people argued whether it is was fast enough, whether it was a aggressive or not. i think obama does deserve a lot of credit for showing that you can do an intervention reasonably well,

achieve at least the first step of your objective and do some large good for that country and potentially the regon. >> do you agree with that, mark? >> i do. i agree that the president's get nothing credit for it. the irony it seems-- . >> lehrer: why isn't he getting credit? >> i think because when the economy is bad, the economy is the only issue. i really do. i think american opinion or interest in libya has been episodic at best. there was a lot at the beginning. but the people who most strenuously supported intervention now refuse, mostly republicans refuse to give the president, the intervener, any credit. and most of the people who opposed the intervention were democrats. so they're reluctant, seem to be reluctant, though they do acknowledge the president's role. and it is a case of nato working the stalemate that loomed, is over. a despot has been removed.

17,000 sortees were flown. you know,-- . >> lehrer: 17,000 sortees, that's a lot of hardware. >> it sure is. it sure is. and the french and the english and the americans. so i-- you know, i don't think he's going to get a political bump out of it. but he can point to the fact that there is no osama bin laden and there is no moammar qaddafi. and it happened on his watch. >> lehrer: yeah. why is it that the republicans don't give him credit? (laughter) >> do you have to ask that question? >> lehrer: tell me, david? >> well, you know,s this's the obvious political thing. the republicans were not convinced about this either. there was a lot of opposition from republicans as well. and a lot of the republicans who were more inclined to support doing something, intervenes like john mccain and lindsay graham thought it was handled poorly. >> lehrer: mccain and graham did want some boots on the ground. >> they wanted to be more aggressive. so they had some quibbles with how it was done.

and so as usual with obama he was stuck there in the middle, without anybody. but i do think you know t was not only him being right and calling for something pretty aggressive. it was not only him being right and calling for regime change, i think secretary clinton has to get a lot of credit for what was done at the u.n., the way the nato alliance was handled. you know, i do, you know, i'm not convinced they've done everything right in regards to the arab spring but this is a clear moment when the u.s. played a very constructive role. and they deserve the credit. nobody will give it to them now but in a couple of years people will acknowledge this was a good thing. >> lehrer: do you think, going back to something that david said earlier, mark, do you think that this will be cited as a model for further, when something-- the next kind of libya thing comes up, well, we don't have to do with with boots on the ground. we can do it with drones and we can do it with sortees. >> i think it is, jim. i think this was a human rights intervention. >> lehrer: human rights

intervention. >> it was to avoid-- it was to avoid massacre. that was the stated purpose. and now what is the continuing responsibility, obligation of nato and the united states as libya works out, i mean libya is fortunately unlike-- it is not victimized by ethnic and religious rivalries that are so fierce and so lethal, but it has no tradition of established government. it has no tradition of established civic leadership. >> lehrer: tribal tradition. >> tribal tradition. so you know, it's going to be a tough-- this is, david said earlier, this is an important first step. but i think is but now really comes the tough part. >> lehrer: speaking of the tough part, you guys have been gone awhile. that's a transition to republican politics, david. is rick perry the front-runner now for the

republican nomination. >> yeah, i think so. >> lehrer: do you think he is. >> i think he is. he has only been in the race a couple of weeks but the polls moved to a degree that is almost unprecedented. he has catapulted and catapulted along all wings of the party. he is the guy they were waiting for. somebody who has a harder edge. somebody who has very strong conservative credentials but who hasn't been elected, run a major state and i think mitt romney has to be thinking i'm an outsider now. i'm behind. and i have to do something aggressive to try to get back. but if this was 2008 with the 2008 electorate, romney would win. because there are a fair number of moderates who voted, about 40% of the people in the republican primary were moderates in 2008. but the 2012 elector-- electorate is not the same as 2008. it is much more conservative, it's much angrier. rick perry sort of fits the mold so i think he's real. i think he has to be considered the front-runner. >> lehrer: real, has to be considered front-runner, mark. >> i do, jim. there are three essential groups that the republican

party is divided into. by their priorities. by pollsters. and the first is sort of those who are concerned most about government power, want government reduced. the second are those who are concerned about business and the economy and jobs. and third are those who are most concerned about moral issues, whether it's gay same-sex marriage or gun rights or whatever. the irony is that rick perry has an almost 2 to 1 lead on the first group, those that want to shrink government, but also leads romney in the second group, business and the much smaller group. >> lehrer: in the gallop poll. >> yeah. and what is fascinating to me is when george w. bush came into the race, following up on david's point n 2000, he came in as a texas governor. and the first thing he felt compelled to do was sort of round off the rough edges. he became an advocate, champion no child left behind. he emphasized the strong latino support he had in that state. billed himself as a

compassionate conservative. rick perry comes in in 2012 campaign, he accentuates the differences. i mean he wants no federal role in education. he wants to repeal the 16th and 17th amendments of the constitution. this is take no prisoners kind of conservatism. and i think george w. bush, the last president can say to his two daughters generala and barbara today, it's not your grandfather's republican party. >> it completely shifted, that's right. in 2000 it was a time of peace and prosperity. and we were arcing about what to do with the surpluses. and that's not the situation now. the republican party is a lot angrier a lot more focused on government. a lot angrier at the people they see taking the country off its true course. people, they include people in washington, people in new york and people in boston, academics, finance years and politicians. and so there's a phone of anger and perry's hard edges, his machismo plays into that. >> lehrer: what does romney

do about this, mark. >> romney who has basically run a campaign that he has had all these sort of stars come in and then implode or-- donald trump, certainly, michele bachmann had a moment, and she's still's real candidate, don't get me wrong but she's been eclipse even more so by perry's arrivalz. >> lehrer: because she was right there, right there next to romney, now she's third. >> she dropped back. obviously cut-- . >> lehrer: and ron paul is in there now too. >> exactly right. ron paul is, he had his own constituency. it committed and it's intense and it's real. but what romney has to do, he can't be the remainder man. he can't be the guy who just waits for everybody else to fall. i think there are those in his campaign, perry will implode because he says so many kind of bizarre tings this, has said so many bizarre things whether it is on global warming or whatever else. but i think he's going to engage. there are republican debates

between now and columbus day in october. and i think will you see a far more aggressive romney. and the others as well. i mean otherwise they run the risk of perry opening up a lead, i think. >> lehrer: is there a romney that can do something about this or is it perry's almost the news now. >> yeah, i we'll see. it's very tough to do. but i more or less agree with mark. i would give pirry a couple debates to implode. give him a chance, couple weeks. there are three debates next month. if he doesn't implode then then you have to go after him. but you can't try to pretend are you as conservative as he is. if romney does that it won't work. you can't attack him for being conservative the jay jon huntsman has tried to do. because that is where the party is. so you don't want to offend them. somehow you have to shift things. and i think the most fruitful lines of attack are to say this guy's tom delay which is to say he uses campaign money in funny ways

to not for principlesed reasons but for political reasons, to feather his own nest and his buddies. and i do think he's vulnerable on that and the second thing you have to remind people what are we fighting about here. we're fight being america's role in the world. it's not washington we have to fundamentally worry about, it's competition there china and india and the new global economy. he's got more credibility talking about how to create an innovation economy than perry does. he has less credibility in fighting washington. >> lehrer: yeah. what about huntsman, why has jon huntsman, he was on the program last night, jeff talked to him. and he drew some distinctions between him and the others, why do those distinctions work against himmor do they work against him? >> well, jon huntsman maybe have a campaign strategies that's based on the republican party that did exist. i mean historically, jim, as i have covered the republican party, the fight has always been between one conservative candidate, candidate on the conservative camp who emerges and one from the not so condition serve difficult camp.

i mean for example in 2000 jon mccain was the less conservative george w. bush was the more conservative. in 2008 jon mccain again was the less conservative and -- dish mean conservative but not as conservative as mike huckabee. bob dole and george-- and pat buchanan, you had george herbert walker bush and pat robertson. you know, i just don't know if there is that constituency is still out there, david mentioned 40%, moderates in 2008. i think you know, it's an angry electorate. if are you angry rick perry is your candidate. if are you nervous rick perry might not be your candidate. but if you are angry, he is. and i mean jon huntsman is reasonable. he's thoughtful. i mean and i don't know if there is a constituency outside there for him to win. >> i agree with that i sat down this week trying to write a column that jon huntsman would have his moment because the voters were out there waiting for them and i looked at the polling data of the

republican electorate, turns out those voters aren't there. maybe 15% of the electorate. so i think it's the wrong year, the wrong time for him. i do think he might as well be more aggressive. on the show with jeffrey, he tiptoed up to staking out different positions. i think he's really got to make it clear. why not. and then if the people look back on this era as an unfortunate era in republican politics in 2016 whatever, they will think okay, that was the guy who was different. >> lehrer: okay, leff it there, good to he sue. >> good to see you, jim. >> brown: finally tonight, a new memorial honoring martin luther king. hurricane irene may have postponed this weekend's dedication ceremony for the new memorial to him, but the public has already had a chance to get a first look. hari sreenivasan has the story. >> i have a dream... that my four little children

will live in a nation... >> sreenivasan: his words inspired millions, and promoted non-violence in america's civil rights struggle. and this week-- 48 years since he delivered his famous speech on washington's national mall-- the new monument honoring dr. martin luther king, jr. opened to the public. >> look at this. this is what his dream was. look at all the nationalities that are here today. >> i think it's a nice combination of thoughtful, peaceful, but strong. i like how it's presented. >> sreenivasan: david martin brought his children. >> it was just the opportunity to bring them here. you know, every night, we say our prayers and we are thankful for the things we've got. and those are on the backs of those who have sacrificed, and dr. king was one among many. >> sreenivasan: for some, the memorial brought tears. >> it's almost like when i turn the corner, it was like, i don't know, such a warm feeling, it feels like what it did when

you were a teenager and you were marching and you were protesting, and you were being taught by your parents to stand up for what was right. >> sreenivasan: the site is a four-acre plot of land adjacent to the tidal basin, between the lincoln and jefferson memorials. two huge granite stones at the entrance form a mountain, a vision taken straight from dr. king's words. >> with this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope... >> sreenivasan: the stone of hope is there, too, in the form of a 30-foot sculpture of king. 14 quotes from king's speeches, sermons, and writings are etched into a 450-foot-long wall. >> you can walk the wall, and you actually get a sense of, "is he still talking in 1960, or is he talking in 2011?" >> sreenivasan: harry johnson is president and c.e.o. of the memorial foundation, and spearheaded the $120 million project, funded mostly with private money.

>> i think we all walk away saying this is so relevant today, because we can all live, see, and place dr. king in proper perspective-- that these words have meaning now. >> sreenivasan: the idea for a monument to king was originally proposed in 1984 by his college fraternity, alpha phi alpha. a dozen years of lobbying later, congress passed a joint resolution in 1996 authorizing the group to move forward. president clinton signed that legislation, and a decade later, spoke at the ceremonial groundbreaking in 2006. >> the monument, however beautiful it turns out to be, will be but a physical manifestation of the monument already constructed in the lives and hearts of millions of americans, who are more just, more decent, more successful, more perfect because he lived. >> sreenivasan: even its

address-- 1964 independence avenue-- is symbolic. 1964 is the year president johnson signed the civil rights legislation, with king standing alongside. >> to stand in front of that monument is to face a movement. it is to feel the power and the possibility of change. >> sreenivasan: johnnetta cole is director of the smithsonian national museum of african art. she said the memorial will allow the country to revisit king's message, and thinks the portrayal in stone is fitting. >> certainly for me, it is significant that, in a sense, dr. king rises out of a rock. he is solid, he is unshakable in his commitment to nonviolence and his insistence on change.

>> sreenivasan: but from conception to completion, this quiet spot for reflection on dr. king's life and works hasn't been without controversy. everything from the location of the memorial to the design to the sculptor contributed to the struggle. after a long planning, design and selection process, lei yixin of china was selected as the sculptor, leaving some unhappy that the committee had not chosen an african american. but this week at the memorial's opening, lei told us he had struggled with class discrimination in his own impoverished life and understood king's vision. >> ( translated ): when i was doing this sculpture, i felt that i had the same ideology as dr. king-- equality is the priority! we can't choose what we are born to be, but i truly agree with dr. king's concept-- everyone is born equally. >> sreenivasan: some say king would be pleased his sculptor is from another part of the globe. reverend jesse jackson. >> dr. king was a globalist. the fact that the sculptor is

from china-- in the real world, half of all human beings are asian, half are chinese. it would impress him because he saw the world through a door, not through a keyhole. >> sreenivasan: jackson, a civil rights activist, was a close friend of king's. >> he would appreciate the gesture. if there were any modification, it may be, as opposed to just having him alone, it may be him embracing a multiracial, multicultural family. >> sreenivasan: but these kinds of difficulties go with the territory when it comes to memorials anywhere, according to kirk savage, a professor at the university of pittsburgh and author of "monument wars," a book about memorials and the national mall. >> the monument to robert e. lee, which we say is kind of an opposite monument, was carved by a frenchman, not a virginian, which caused a lot of controversy at the time in the 1880s and 1890s when it was built. there have been major disputes, you know, over the washington monument-- took over 15 years to build.

there were incredible problems with that project. >> sreenivasan: why? >> well, because of its scale, its form, that nobody really wanted an obelisk. >> sreenivasan: another debate adding to the fray-- king's expression. some have said he looks too stern and that his arms shouldn't have been crossed. but the foundation said lei was thorough. he spent many days in his studio with walls covered in photographs of king to get a sense of his spirit. lei spoke at monday's opening. >> ( translated ): i tried to convey m.l.k.'s passion through his eyes, facial expression, and stance at this work-- a passion that encourages people's hope for the future. >> sreenivasan: "washington post" art critic phillip kennecott called the statue part of "a mishmash... stuck uncomfortably between the conceptual and literal... focused on the anodyne, pre-1965 king." but jesse jackson said king's likeness in stone captures the full dimension of the man he knew.

>> he comes to us not as a poet who was poetic, not just as a philosopher who was philosophical; he comes to us as a man who was serious about the business, and so often i saw him in that pose as he pondered what were the next steps of the struggle. >> sreenivasan: whether the memorial brings in as many visitors as other monuments on the mall or becomes as big of a landmark is unknown. but as kirk savage pointed out, the memorial already represents a profound change to the mall. >> because this is an area of the mall that is dominated by war memorials and wartime presidents. and here we have a monument to a figure who... in fact, did... really did try to promote peace, and in fact got the nobel peace prize. >> sreenivasan: many hope the memorial inspires action. >> my fear is that many who read his poetic words and will think more of portrait than policy. so we have to do his unfinished business-- fighting poverty, illiteracy, disease, ending unnecessary wars, and using more

minds and less missiles to make the world better. >> i've always felt, if we were to honor him, if we are to celebrate him, then we do it not by our words but by our actions. >> sreenivasan: with the dedication delayed, in the meantime, the public can now visit a memorial that's been 27 years in the making. >> lehrer: again, the major developments of the day: the rain and wind of hurricane irene began along the north carolina shore. cities and states up the east coast took emergency measures. new york city ordered an unprecedented evacuation of some 270,000 people. and a car bomb attack in nigeria's capital killed at least 18 people at the main united nations building. and to kwame holman for what's on the newshour online. kwame.

>> holman: later tonight, we'll have more from mark and david on the "doubleheader." we have a slideshow of the new martin luther king, jr., memorial on the national mall. plus gwen ifill reflects on his "i have a dream" speech. and a reminder-- we've launched a new project ahead of the tenth anniversary of the september 11 attacks. we call it the "9/11 video quilt." together with our colleagues at pbs stations across the country, we've collected your thoughts on what's changed since 2001.an e' he here's a sampling of some of the responses we've received recently. >> because everybody is doing their little part, even if its-- even if you are's military, civilian or law enforcement, just like you ride the train or bus, there's messages every where

you see something,mesog inomth c something so somebody can react on it. everybody gets involved. i would imagine it is. >> no, i don't. and the reason is that i don't think there's a way to prevent it i just don't think there is a way to prevent it. i really feel that if they wanted it to come back and do something, they'll come back and do something. >> i would rather be safe than sorry. based on the procedures which they have now, i think it is a positive. i rather save myself the embarrassment or whatever the case may be, you don't feel safe with a screening or what not, i would rather be safe than sorry. so i have no problem in the ways they are doing things at this point. i have never been on a plane. my father had to travel on a plane weekly for his job. he is safe where it he comes home every day, you know.

>> i kind of feel sorry for the muslims because i think that they are looked at in a different light. i mean as far as, there are a lot of people that are a little more in tune to who is sitting next to them on an airplane and what. and i regret that for them, you know. being judged like that. >> holman: those videos were produced in partnership with our public television colleagues in philadelphia, rochester, new york, oklahoma, and washington, d.c. you can see more of the video quilt on our web site, and also learn how to submit your own video for it. the quilt will be featured in the newshour's special coverage of the 9/11 anniversary to be broadcast that night on most pbs stations. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. jeff. >> brown: and that's the newshour for tonight. on monday, we'll assess the impact of hurricane irene, and update the conflict in libya. i'm jeffrey brown. >> lehrer: and i'm jim lehrer. "washington week" can be seen later this evening on most pbs stations.

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