♪ >> hello, i'm llewellyn king, the host of "white house chronicle," which is coming right up. but first, a few thoughts of my

own. there's a class war i'm told. so immediately i went out to see which side i should join. then i found shock, horror, unbelievable, there's a whole class missing. i've looked everywhere for it, i cannot find it. it's the working class. my father was working class. by education i am working class. but there is no working class. that's because the politicians in trying to con us all have said we're all in the middle class, except for the very rich who are in some sort of divine class. obviously not aristocrats. i ask you where is the working class, where are the people who repair things with their hands, dig holes and not all illegal immigrants you know. some of them are honest to american. why have they been excluded from

the political debate as though they do not exist? it's because politicians have wanted to persuade us all that we're doing rather better than we are and they have ratchetted us into this great lump of classlessness called the middle class. anyway, i shall be looking for the truth, i shall be out looking for the working class. now when we come back we're going to have an extraordinary discussion with two of the most gifted and talented men in washington about america and the world. where it's been, why it's changed its position in the world and peoples attitudes to us as our stature has changed, if not declined. be right back. you'll find it compelling, i assure you. >> many have spoken out on the need to transition to a clean energy feature. we are acting. by 2020, we are committed to

reducing, offsetting or displacing more than 15 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions through greening our operations, and offering more low carbon electricity in the market place. we are taking action and we are seeing results. >> "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboration with whut, howard university television. and now your program host, nationally syndicated columnist llewellyn king and co-host linda gasparilla. >> hello again. i'm llewellyn king and thank you for coming along. i promise you two uncommonly interesting men and here they are. my friend andre, the bureau chief of the russian news agency in washington. lovely to see you again andre

and nice to have you on this broadcast. and a new friend, sorry, i said that wrong -- now you correct me. that's not made it ease yes for me at all. you've said that before have you? unfair advantage here. and you are hungarian-born and a student of attitudes in europe. you run an annual assessment of changed attitudes in the european union to the u.s. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> that's trans atlantic at the german fund. that's great. when i was a boy, which was in africa, we were in awe of the united states. we thought that it did everything right we didn't think it did anything wrong, had the

best automobiles, refrigerators, educational system. even that it was ahead of us in its racial, which i later discovered was not so, in its racial attitudes. when i went to england in the 1960's i found a division, conservative business people, also adored the united states. but the working people, and particularly the left wing were highly critical, for some of the reasons they're critical today. lack of national health, active use of death penalty. other social issues that offend in europe. tell me how do you find the attitude in europe, and in russia particularly in the u.s. today? >> i would say first that being as old as i am i remember the same thing about russia. where people, i was actually surprised a little bit at what you said because i thought that maybe people had better access to information, but in russia

they had no access about information about america and they assumed streets were paved with gold here. now they know better. and now they're trying to pave their own streets with gold which i think is a much better occupation for them. >> what is the attitude of loss to the united states? i think i have a copy that says 2011. >> we just came out with this new survey actually last week and as i mentioned it's an annual survey and they follow peoples opinion on the united states and some common foreign policy challenges. as you mentioned the image of the united states, i think europe is a very interesting case because nothing describes better what's going on than how you look at the two past presidents. the current and the one past president of the united states. probably doesn't come as a surprise that george w. bush was not a very popular president in europe.

and when barack obama was elected, and in his first year the approval of the united states president skyrocketted. the last year george w. bush, 20% of the europeans approved his handling international affairs. the first year of obama's presidency over 40%. >> but isn't it a fact that the europeans when there's a conservative president, before he's done anything, say he's a cowboy, expect the worst, and then analyze his actions to find the worst. isn't that a fairly common approach to conservative presidents? >> yeah, i would say that's a fair description. >> and it hasn't really changed much over years has it? this anti-pathy to american conservative presidents. they said awful things about somebody who did amazing things in europe, ronald reagan. >> that's on the part of europe actually. because as i mentioned most of

the obama bounce happened in western europe. central and eastern europes showed a fairly high approval of george w. bush and when obama became president the difference wasn't that pronounced. >> if i could jump in here, i think the stereotypes work both ways. if you look at the way that americans view russia it's same thing. you are guilty before proven guilty. you are guilty because you're russian. you are guilty because you know when the soviets what you did to us and to our opinions of the world. and as for the current american president, i think the russians did not have as much infatuation before hand with obama and came out the better for it. >> it's interesting in africa, particularly in the middle east nixon was greatly admired. he was highly admired and wasn't

in the western united states. >> for us given the attitude that i describe to the russians as a nation, and as a successful nation to the soviet union, actually probably more natural at the white house because for a conservative, that sort of thing comes naturally. and for a guy like obama, it's obviously, he's down graded -- i as a person who watches it from a very close distance, i'm very happy with the way things are going. not to mention he's given two interviews to my boss. but other than that, i think that the people are a little confused. he is a democratic president who basically in some instances they still expect him to act like the old stereotype way of looking at russia. and they still have problems of

not trusting him enough. that's where both sides are complaining. the issue of trust is still the biggest one in the bilateral relations. >> in this country we had a new look at europe basically during the gulf war. in which we were told suddenly there was old europe and new europe. politically and they're equally old. you really touched on this division didn't you? it's a real division isn't it? >> in some respects yes, and in other respects not so much. but as i mention for example obama's popularity, the few places that it's increasing in europe are actually eastern europe. poland, also romania, his approval rate is going up in lots of countries. >> i think you just quoted it and i'll quote it right back at you. also aside from saying new europe, old europe, also famously said things about known

unknowns and unknown knowns and all this stuff. i think the americans in their attitude to europe have a feeling that it's a known unknown. at worst. and i would argue that we are all unknowns. we are unknowables. i cannot know you. i don't know what's in your head. and even though we've been friends for a long time, what i'm trying to say is we can trust each other as human beings and as nations. but i think we should never assume that we really know and that we can judge other peoples motives, other people's interests, other people's aspirations. >> we can over a period of year, the so-called arc of history, a certain interest that countries have and the moment those interests largely are concerned, at the very moment they concern death and finance, but over the

longer period they concern raw materials, oil in particular, relations with an emerging asia. that is a fairly long, where attitudes can be predicted. but we have 27 countries is that correct? we cannot pretend that is any sort of unified hold. neither can they. but they have certain culture that build to the criticism of the united states. i mention some of those at the beginning of this broadcast. they don't like our lack of social services of what they feel in this country are very random social, very holy social. they don't like our enthusiasm if you will. punishment, which is now a no-no all over europe. and i was living in england when the last person was sentenced. and that was later regarded as a

miscarriage of justice, and he was hanged. these are deep cultural differences. i think going to your point that america has often regarded europe as a kind of disneyland where people wear funny clothes, drink nice wine, eat funny food. they're disney creations, not actually countries in a way. and of course americans have a disproportionate affection for england because it's different but they speak the lang. >> right, but llewellyn, you and me we cover the white house and we know the answer to that from the white house podium. the answer is of course they may say we don't like what we believe but they imitate us. which is true by the way. which is true. the opinion about the united states is low around the world. including in the countries you

are wanting to be liked, the arab countries. a poll where americans were voted the coolest nation on earth by a youth magazine. it was not covered here but it was definitely covered in russia. >> if i can add one more difference, you brought up very good points about how americans and europeans are different. one of the things that europeans didn't like in the american foreign policy the unlateralism of the foreign policy. that made a difference during the previous president. a lot of people talk about nipe, how it was a dividing moment between the world and the united states. but what's really divided europeans and americans was the u.s. reaction to 9/11, going to afghanistan, as well as to iraq and not really reaching out to other countries, but doing this by themselves. >> there was that unique few

months there when everybody was a new yorker. it was a wonderful time of world unity. >> i would say it was probably a few minutes. >> no, it was longer than that. >> a few weeks. >> i'm going to interrupt for station identification. particularly for the audio of this program which can be heard on sirius x.m. radio at 9:30 a.m. on saturdays, 6:30 p.m. on saturday's and 3:p.m. on saturday, taking us out of order. you are listening to "white house chronicle" coming to you from washington with myself, llewellyn king, andre, bureau chief of the russian news agency. and zalt, director of a comprehensive annual survey of american and european public opinion since 2002. we are discussing here the position of america in the world and the way it is regarded.

this program, in keeping with that can also be seen on the english language stations of voice of america around the globe. >> sorry, llewellyn, i wanted to pick up on what -- >> oh please. >> so what you're saying about the policy, in a more general way what is at stake here and what people dislike around the world and probably result comes from hungary which gives him a unique perspective. before the end of the cold war they were supposed to follow the socialist model. which basically was saying we know how you guys should live. ok the cold war ended, the nation was liberated, like other nations. but now they find himself on line of scrimmaged to follow the american way. it brings recentment against

americans. my point about this is not that it is bad. i would argue that for the americans, it is actually good that the people outside the u.s. often criticize them. i'm not saying americans should not lead. i'm not saying that the political example, the moral example, and if they are criticized, given they are sometimes unfairly criticized that's because for many people outside the u.s., americans are larger than life. and that again, they're holding you to a bigger standard, a larger standard than you probably apply to yourself. that is good for americans in the long run in my opinion. >> i agree with that. when obama became the president, there was enthusiasm around the world towards the american president. and how it's good for the u.s. they are not paying u.s. taxes, but i think for the image and the standing of the united states, it is a good thing to have a popular president.

because it also gives a lot of credibility to u.s. foreign policy. we noticed in our surveys that when obama became president and he was very popular, also the percentage of those that felt the united states had a strong presence their other affairs increased. >> it was also an affirmation of america's ability to grow and develop. it was an african-american, i think that you cannot forget and the european attitude which is my god america, which we had always thought was a dubious moral fiber when it came to races now has an african-american president. incredible. only america could do that and that's actually true. i feel that way myself. but i think there's another thing that affects european attitudes, which is very shallow. but that is the bland culture. the american culture that sweeps away whether it's mcdonald's

hamburgers, or tv programs, or starbucks, you cannot walk through any of the great cities of europe now without seeing american chain stores. where as european investment is huge in america, but it's not seen. it's in things that are less noticable. still at street level, even in france, the freatest food perhaps, i think so. suddenly you have this proliferation of chain restaurants selling very bland food and they're succeeding because people want them. but he does build up a cultural recentment, doesn't it? >> that's a really good point and i want to use an example how americans don't know what's here that is coming from europe. i was actually very recently told that trader joe's is owned by germans. i think that's not the perception. people don't look at something and hit a grocery store like

trader joe as markets. >> my commuter train is run by the french. there are a lot of european ownership, but it's not in hidden ways. >> i'm surprised you sound like you're unhappy about that. i think it's the greatest asset that the americans have. it's called the soft power. and recently as yesterday i was reading an article in the main russian newspaper now, sort of the must read for all the russian beaurocrats where he was arguing, saying now that we have sort of rebuilt the fundamentals of our economy, now that we sort of rebuilt our standing in the world politically, we really need to think about our national brand. about our soft power, the attraction we have as a nation. the ideas that we can offer the outside world.

and in a way, like it or not, mcdonald's is an idea that americans put out there. >> andre, my objection to the modern culture as expressed through fast food maybe is that it's eating away other lovely, enjoyable cultures. and i'm sentimental. i like to go to france and eat french. i like to go to italy and eat i tall -- and eat italian. moscow is a little stop. >> maybe you can drink russian. >> you can drink russian, but do it in moscow or st. petersberg. i went to siberia once, it was so bad. >> moonshine? >> it wasn't called moonshine but it was pretty rough. however, in the interest of friendship i choked it down. so feel good about that. actually americans would be

interesting to see siberia which i was there in the spring, and the snow was metting, et cetera, and it was like a midwestern town, at the same time of year, people pushing their children in prams. we have this idea that we dehumanize them in looking at their culture. especially true if that culture is radically different from our own. and of all the cultures of europe, probably the russian culture is the most different that is european. >> you know, at least in the attitude of the russians themselves, they again, i'm surprised that you point this out, this is an american attitude that i probably haven't realized until now. russians have always liked to think of themselves as similar to the americans in terms of

conquering vast spaces of land, in terms of creating a national mission, not just existence, but a mission to fulfill in this world. in terms of encompassing surrounding nations and being a very multicultured multination of state. so the russians and my job here as a journalist is very often to actually point out the differences. >> zolt, the european union, 27 disparrot countrieses, how many languages, nearly took 20 or more? >> i think more. >> is it going to hold together? >> i think so, i think so. clearly the big problem is the euro zone crisis. everyone is hearing about it all the time. in our poll is what we see support for the euro zone, support for the common currency is low. the majority of those that we poll say using the euro has been a bad thing for their country's economy. when we ask them, that

membership of the european union, has that been a good thing or a bad thing, then the majority says the european union has been a good thing for their country's economy. so there are a lot of issues about the euro zone and the currency. but in terms of the perception of the opinion, i think it's still fairly strong. >> i've been associated or studied or some what involved in different times of matters of europe, going way back to before britain's entry when they had very strong objections and it turned out to be absolutely without substance. one of which was british farmers who believe they would be swamped if they entered europe and it was the end of the small farm in england. of course the small farm became a money machine because of the common agricultural policy. other examples of people who found things to be different than they had anticipated when they got in, overexpectations for example. >> you mean into opinion?

>> yes. >> i think countries like portugal, that was i think they kind of expected most of their problems will disappear once they are strong members of the european union. i think some people found it quite fascinating that now the economy problems are actually not coming from the recently joined eastern european countries, but it's coming from the other european -- >> it coming largely from the southern tier. which winston churchhill described as the soft underbelly of europe. >> poland is doing very well in our economy. >> and what is the russian feeling about the european union. not about us, but about the european union. is it an enthusiastic indifference, suspicious? envy? >> i would say the russians probably do not really think

about the political side of this, thinks any more than americans do. some it's political. people don't care about all that much, but the russians i would argue, regarded in european union as a natural neighbor. the biggest issue on the agenda is a visitor to that region. the russians love to go to europe, it's close, it's comfortable. they feel almost familiar. so i would argue that we will have a very good friendship ahead of us provided of course that muddle through this current crisis. >> i want to ask both of you something i that have noticed in particular. everybody comments where ever i

am, suddenly we don't have a lot of time, but suddenly there were a lot of russians all over western europe, all over america, also they're enthusiasm for consumer goods. how do russians feel about this opening to the west if you will? >> this is often criticized in russia and in my opinion criticized fairly, but we need to take into account the previous 70 plus years for the same people. in my opinion, the natural reaction of the people who have been deprived of this and now they have the opportunity and they're making full use of it. >> zolt, one word about everything. is it difference or unity? >> i think there are problems within the opinion and obviously there are some issues they need to address. >> that's our show for the day. i thank andre and zolt,

gentlemen, it's been an honor for you. a delight. >> many have spoken out on the need to transition to a clean energy future. we are acting. by 2020 we are reducing more than 15 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions annually through greening our operations, helping our customers and communities reduce emission and offering low carbon electricity in the market place. we are taking action and we are seeing results. >> "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboration with whut, howard university

television. from washington, d.c., this has been "white house chronicle," a weekly analysis of the news with insight and a sense of humor featuring llewellyn king, linda gasparilla, and guests. this program may be seen on pbs station and cable access channel. to view the program online, visit us at