it, there was a list drawn up and michael's name was very much the first name on that list. um, sort of if only sort of feeling, you know, if only we can get him. um, i therefore, i can't say that i had written the part specifically for him.

>> rose: welcome to our raog tonight, george clooney on his life and his new film "the ides of march." >> i find more and more as i feel that i've had great success over the years i feel more and more there are places that i can spread that wealth and i don't mean just monetarily. i mean focused on areas where peop need attention and help. i can see that's becoming more and more part of my life. i really work... i spend more time... i spend almost as much time on that now as i do on film work. and i can see that continuing to become a bigger part of my life. but i still like making movies. i do like... as long as i can

get away with making these kinds of movies-- and i won't be able to forever you know? you just can't. >> rose: and we remember steve jobs with an excerpt from his famous stanford university commencement speech and an appearance on this pgram in 1996. >> the things that i've done in my life, i tnk the thgs we do at pixar, these are team sports. they're not something one person does. you have to have an extraordinary team because these are... you're trying tolimb a mountain with a whole party of people. a lot of stuff to bring up the mountain. so one person can't do it. >> rose: george clooney, a new movie,nd steve jobs, an preciation when we contie.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is chare rose.

>> rose: george clooney is here. he started as an actor but he became director and he became the complete film maker. he's a writer and a producer, a director an an actor. here's some of his work over the years. >> i'm seeing someone for the first time, you could be passing on the street and you look at each other for a few seconds and she's... there's kind of a recognition. you both know something. then the moment is goonened it's too late to do anything about it and you always remember it because there was there and you let it go and you think to yourself what if i had stopped? what if i had said something? >> preacher said it absolved us. >> for him, not for the law. i'm surprised at you, pete, i gave you credit for more brains than dell her. >> but there was witnesses that seen us regimed. >> that not the issue. even if it put you square with the lord the state of miissippi is more hard nosed. >> you shoulhave joined us,

everett. it wouldn't have hurt none. >> at least it would have washed away the stink of that pomade. >> youwo ignorant fools, i like that smell of my hair treatmen the pleasing odor is half the point. baptism, you two are just dumber than a bag of hammers. >> because the house always wins. play long enough, you can never change the stakes. the house takes you. unless when that perfect hand comes along you bet big and then you take the house. >> you've been practicing that speech, haven't you? >> a little bit. did i rush it? it felt li i rushed it. >> no, i liked it. >> we're going with the story that the u.s. air force tried him without one shred of evidence and found him guilty of being a security risk. >> you have also claimed he's not a security risk without seeing the evidence. wouldn't you guess they the people who have seen the contents of that envelope might have a better idea of what makes someone a danger to his country... >> who?

who are these people >> or do you think it should be used... >> who are the people? don't you know who am? i'm a fixer. i'm bag man. i do everything from shoplifting house wives to bent congressman and you're going to kill me? what do you need? lay it on me. you want a carry permit? you want a heads up an an insider training subpoena? i sold out arthur for 80 grand and a three-year contract and you're going to kill me. >> you got dry paper, here we go. what do you have? >> i can see in the dark? >> incredible, wick use that. linda? >> got it. >> rabbit? >> i'm st. >> you bet you are. linda? >>ot it. >> beaver? >> i can shoot through wood. >> azing. linda? >> got it. >> badger? >> demolitions expert. >> what? since when? >> explosion, flames, burning things. >> demolitions expert. linda? >> got it. >> wez? stop yelling! >> natalie what is it you think do here? >> we ppare the newly unemployed for the emotional and physical hurdles of job hunting

while minimizing legal blowback. that's what we're selling, not at we're doing. >> okay, what are we doing? >> we're here to make limbo powerful. to ferry wounded souls across the river of dread to the point where hope i d.e.m.ly visible. >> rose: and it is as film make he makes his new film called "the ides of march." he is the director, the co-writer and one of its stars. here is the trailer for "the ides of march." >> you okay? >> we're going to be fine. we have to do it. it's the right thing to do and nothing bad happens when you're doing the right thing. >> is this your personal nearly. >>ell, there's exceptions to every rule. >> who is this? >> got a couple minutes? d like to sit down with you. >> i can't be talking with you. >> you've got something the othehe r guys don't have you ext something, youraw pele in. >> you're the big man on campus, i'm just the lowly intern. >> what time are you off tomorrow? >> 9:00 a.m. you're pretty forward.

>> all reporters love you. >> if your boy wins, you get a job in the white house. or you're back at a consulting firm. >> i've worked for more campaigns than most people have by the time they're 40. >> he's the only one that's going to actually make a difference. >> either we're going to lead the world or we're going to bury our heads in the sand. you're my brain trust. how with we r we doing? >> what do you think, stevie? >> you are working for the wrong man. i want you to work for us. >> there's only one thing i value in this. >> paul... >> i met with tom duffy sterday.

>> what? >> i just didn't think... >> it doesn't matter what you thought, it maers what you did! it matters what you didn't do! >> i'm coming to work for you. >> it makes people unpredictable we can't have that. >> what if i have something else? >> like what? >> something big. >> the next president of the united states of america, governor mike norris! >> you thought it was important to fix things and you'roff the campaign? >> integty, our future depends on it. >> i'll do or say anything if i have believe in it but i have to believe the cause. >> rose: i am pleased to have george clooney back at this table. welcome, my friend. >> thank you very much. nice to be here. >> rose: let's talk about the history of this film. how did it come into being?

>> a woman wrote aly called put the, it came to our attention in 2007, i believe and grant heslov who is my writing partner and producing partner and the best producer i've ever worked we we got... grant and i had been working on a very different project, a sort of morality tale and we thought... >> rose: morality tale about a politician? >> no, we thought... we were thinking about wall street. we were thinking about the financial industry in some way and th we read the play and we thought that that was sort of a perfect mesh between the two the play doesn't have my character in it. >> rose: there was no... no political candidate? >> there's no actual candidate. it was all about th back room politics but wliked the characters that beau had written as t bones and structure. >> rose: wt went through your head as to how you wanted to define this candidate

well, first we waed to make him... the first thing you do is structure aandidate. this means running for a democratic primary so you structure him as you in a democratic primary to say things that would appeal to a democratic primary. which requires thinking through what would be the dream speeches that you would get to hear. and then you find ways of corrupting... quietly corrupting those things he's been doing along the way. it's not a film about politics. our vision, what we're doing with the film was talking about that moment that you trade off that moment that you... >> rose: lose your soul. >> yeah. the moment you make the deal. and is it worth it? sometimes the answer is yes. >> rose: and what would he say? >> he would say the answer is yes. the candidate would say it. i think the candidate would always stay answer is yes. because the tradeoffs you have to do... my father ran for congress. there are moments... times in a

congressional campaign where you're raising $2 million you're going to be shaking hands with people you don't necessari want to shake hands with. >> rose: but you'll take their money because you want to win. >> because you have to and because in politics now in the united states 95% of the people who have the most money win in an election. >> rose: isn't there a common denominator to the movies you want to make or are you all over the place? >> i'm all over the place. let's be honest. >> rose: (laughs) >> y know, i have a... i don't look for projects that have a specific direction. i'm very interested in projects that ask questions and they don't necessarily to supply answers. i really do like questions... films that raise questions about issues that are ongoing in the country and in society and then... and maybe we can answer them, maybe we can't. >> rose: what are you prepared to sell your soul for?

to what end? a morality play of our times? >> do the ends justify the means? you could say well, some really terrible negative campaigning you never wanted to do but if your candidate gets in and is good than it was probably a good thing to do. >> rose: so then you begin to cast. >> sure. >> rose: and bo you put it together here. is. >> rose: >> yeah. >> rose: you had ryan gosling. >> a young up and comer. >> rose: (laughs) the role fits, does it? >> sure does. he's just amazing. and philip seymour hoffman and paul giamatti on on side sides. >> rose: philip seymour hoffman plays a strategis for you? >> uh-huh. and paul giamatti for my opponent and sort of the... james carville and mary matlin and then marisa tomei. >> rose: what plays the "new york times" reporter? i bet they loved that the that at the "times." >> yeah, don't say in and evan rachel wood who is just

unbelievably talented young actress. born in north carolina, by the way. >> she is. she did some theater in north carolina. >> rose: her father is still there. >> he is. >> rose: and jeffrey wright playing a senator who's sitting on top of a bunch of delegates that everybody wants. >> rose: (laughs) whh will cost them. >> we've seen that before, you know. things you get straight away. >> rose: t central khark sister the press secretary. >> in the play and the film, yes. >> rose: he's the central character. >> he is the central character. we have to watch the film through someone's eyes and it is absolutely through ryan gosling's eyes. >> rose: here's the first clip. >> i want to help you get an education and create national unity, teach young people a trade and we're going to get them out of debt for their collegloans. where did that fail? >> that's exactly right, governor. but if you're going to do it, do it. make it mandatory, not voluntary. >> that will poll well. >> mandatory. everybody who turns 18 or

graduates high school gives two years or service to his or her country and for that your college education is paid for, period. >> paul likes this. >> uh-huh. the beauty is everybody who's over the age of 18 or past the age of eligibility will be for it. why not? >> and all of the others... >> can't vote. too young. (laughter) >> there is cynicism in politics? >> i didn't know that. >> rose: shocked. >> i actually believe that, though. i think there should be a national service. >> rose: i assume you believe most of the positions candidate morris took. >> one way or another. some of them are taken from speeches or from articles my father wrote. >> rose: now there's somebody you can believe in. >> well, in 1979 he talked about the argument that if you woke up tomorrow in saudi arabia and said "we're out of oil" we'd find a way to power our cars. we would find a way to

independently transport ourselves. so why don't we lead the world again? and those kinds of arguments i thought were fairly good. >> rose: tell me about him and your relationship? >> we have a really good relationship. my parents and i are very close. we've been very close for a long time. we had...ou know, there's those periods where you... after high school when you disappe for a while or when y come to hollywoo and where you've got to get home to finish your education. >> rose: when did you tell him you wanted to be an actor? >> i figured it out in about a week. >> rose: (laughs) this is when you went to hollywood or before you left? >> i'd ner been an actor before. my cousin, migueler in rare and his father jer if rare they came to kentucky and i was cutting tobacco then which is... you needed another job, you know. >> rose: you don't want to be there, yes, indeed. >> you know all about it. i was making about three bucks an hour and they got me a job as

an extra on this movie they were doing in kentucky about horse racing and then when it was over miguel and jose ferrer said "you ought to go to hollywood, be an actor." i said, okay. i went to my dad and said "i'm going to hollywood to be an actor." and he was like "the hell you are." and it was one of those a little bit of butting heads for a period of time, for a couple years of that. but at the end of the day, they were always very supportive of me. >> rose: it is better that you were not an instant success. >> yeah. oh... i wouldn't have handled it well. i wouldn't have handled it well for... first of all, i had a lot to learn about the craft. i look at people like evan rachel wd and ryan gosling and i think of when i was their age, the kind of work iwas doing would have gotten me thrown out of a film like this. i'm... always surprised by how talented they are. i'm better because i learned the craft and also better because i

learned to understand how little it has to do with me and that gives you a great sense of balance. >> rose: how little it has to do with you? yeah, your own stardom... not skill but srdom, that's luck. and you can point to many different things but luck is a huge piece of it. >> rose: and where was the luck for you? was that "e.r." or something else? >> thursday night at a 10:00 time slot, literally. >> 20 or 30 million people. >> we had 45 million people watch that show now n.o.w. that's... those numbers when you talk about big hits now and they'll say "american idol" had 16 million, we had 40 million people watching when there was still 100 channels out there. so it was a massive hit. and it changed my... the trajectory of my career. i had already done eight television series. >> rose: i want to stay with your father a minute. this is a remarkable man. he's influenced you beyond some sense... i mean, in what way in terms of values, in what way in terms of the kind of life you

want to live? >> i was raised to... from the time i was very young understanding when i was raed... i was raised in the middle of the civil rights movement, in the middle o vietnam t vietnam movement, the tide was turning. in the middle of the women's ts movement. and i was raised to... the most important thing you can do in your life is challenge authority. challenge power. speak truth to power. that was always a big part of... question authority. >> rose: if i look at what you do in sudan now, for example, as one particular area, i can draw a line there back to your dad? >> yes. almost direct line back to what my father and my mother both taught me about the idea that if you're lucky enough to be successful then you owe something. you know, we had christmas morning... christmas mornings for us, we weren't... my mom made my clothes for me. it's not like we were loadedment

but every once in ahile we'd have a good year and we've had a bad ar. but every year my dad would be on... was on television in cincinnati, ohio. >> rose: he was a local anchor person. >> local anchorman and before that he had a variety show. and he would get letters over christmas from families who weren't going to have christmas because they were la off. and so my father made my sister and i... we had to mow lawns or deliver papers or do whatever it is you do when you're 12 years old to make some money. and we would have to then from that letter we would go pick out a prent to the family we've never met before for their kids and my mom and dad would pick out presents for the family and on christmas morning before we could open our christmas presents we would have to go to this stranger's home that we'd never met and go in and bring them presents and... i remember cleaning... heing them clean their house up d putting a tree up when we were kids. that was what my father believed that was part of your responsibility was that everyone

else... you know, you have a responsibility to look after everyone else. >> rose: at a memorial service for walter cronkite, who became a great friend of yourand visited at lakecuomo, there was an appreciation by nick clooney. tell us what he said. >> he was talking... well, first of all, he's very funny, my father. so he made some drinking jokes and stuff and got some laughs about the disparity of their jobs, him talking about... my father talking about the newport keucky fire and him talking about anwar sadat. >> rose: (laughs) >> but at the end he talked about a dinner they were having at a resurant and he said they were there before anyone else. >> rose: the two of them. >> the whole... yeah, the abou five or six peoplend no one had... people came to the restaurant not knowing that walter had his back t the rest of the restaurant and as they got up to leave he said walter was walking in front of him and

everyone just stood up and he says they stood up. they didn't yell out his name and they didn't applaud, they justtood up. and he said because that's what u dohen a gentleman leaves the room. >> rose: i love that story. >> a i tell you, you could hear it in the room. it was funny because as he... it was at lincoln center my da was speaking and he was following president obama and president clinton who were sitting next to each other and as he walked past him you jus see the two of them are going... >> rose: (laughs) >> y don't want to follow him. he's too good. >> rose: it was an amazing moment. >> back to "the ides of march." there is shakespeare in this and the reason for changing the title was... shakespeare? >> the title of the flay was... play was "farragut north" and it seemed a little too specific and "the ides of march"... we started looking at titles and this takes pla on the 159 of

march which is the ides of march and we like the idea of the theory that there are... the idea that your best friend and worst enemy conspire against you makes sense to us and played... we thought that other people could decide who was caesar. >> rose: all right. and, in fact, you have said that the first half of this movie is about democrats and the second half is about republicans or at least the first half democrats we'll likend the second half republicans will like because of what it says about democrats. i've been making jokes about it because the truth was anything i get involved in that we have politics it in there will be a certain group of people that just assume it's going to be a civics lesson that they don't want to see. and we want to make it very clear that this isn't that at all. this this was entertainment that wanted to talk about bigger fish than politics. >> rose: this is a scene in which really central to this movie in which ryan gosling who

plays the press guy talks to the rival campaign manager played by the remarkable paul giamatti. here it is. >> he's threatening to release the story. >> how did she find snout >> don't play dumb, tom. >> you think i leaked it to her? >> who else? >> i didn't leak it to her, steve. >> i know i didn't so that leaves you. >> okay, well, what does she snow >> she knows whatever you told her. did you tell anyone is >> no, did you? >> no. >> did you admit to meeting with me? >> no. >> all right. then we stone wall her and she's got nothing. >> she's going to take ts story to drudge or "roll call." >> she's trying to blackmail me. she wants info about thompson. >> i'm going to tell her what she wants to know. >> i can't do it. >> (laughs) you know, you're on a sinking ship, steve. tell her what she wants to know and jump. come over to our side. we can control this thing.

steve? >> i've got go. >> rose: as i leave this movie, my attitude about politics is going to b it's all dirty and what? >> (laughs) ... >> rose: or that it's a group of characters who make decisions based in their own best interest not so much a greater good. >> i think that you'll see that often in politics. i think you've seen that and i've seen it. i shared an office on k street for out 16 weeks with mary math lynn and james carville and michael deaver and very interesting consultants and ken edelman was there and i worked with people who did this for a living and ty would talk often about... often times they have absolutelyhe belief in what they're doing but there is also a real competitiveness to winning. and winning becomes a big issue. not just with them but wi people that they were talking about. >> rose: the final scene here with a brilliant new actor, i wantou to take a look at it

and give me a sense of how you conceived this scene. >> sure. >> rose: roll tape. >> you're ainst thedeath penalty. >> uh-huh. >> because of what it says about us as a society. suppose, governor, it was your wife. d she was murdered. what would that do? >> it get mrs. complated when it personal. >> sure. >> well, if could get to him i would find a way to kill him. >> so you... you, governor, would impose a death penalty. >> no, i would commit a crime for which iould happily go to jail. >> then why not let society do that? >> because society has to be better than the individual. if i were to do that, i would be wrong. >> what about guns? >> isn't it time for a commercial? >> rose: pretty damn good, isn't it? >> well, i'll tell you what i did like. >> rose: (laughs) >> i like the way you hit the table several times like that. >> rose: really. because that was not scripted. >> no, if you read the script-- and we'll send it to anyone who asks-- nowhere in that script does it say "t the table five

times with your hand." >> rose: so when the director saw that happen and felt it happen wud he pissed off at the actor? did he think the actor had taken liberties with the script that might not otherwise be aloud? >> tre was a little jealousy that i had not pounded the desk first. i thought there wa.. the fficty i found with thi actor... this young actor, was before we actually started shooting. >> rose: (laughs) >> the demands he me. >> rose: >> >> all of the ms had to be one color. >> rose: and the presidential suite. >> and the soft lense asked for. >> rose: yes, indeed. to eance his youthfulness. >> which seemed to work perfectly. >> rose:ow can you direct and act at the same time? >> it's a littl likoing this thing. when you know a projectreally ll-- and i know particularly... i think of my character in this as supplying

what i need to further the story. i don't really think of it... i don't really look at it... >> rose: as your career. >> right. i look at it as well i need this to work in this scene. so i'm watching... i'm feeling where the camera is and it gets pushed in too soon and i'm watching what you're doing and you're juggling things so as an actor i'm not paying too much attention. but i know it really well and i know as a director what it means so i have an advantage over the rest of the actors because i know when i get in the editing room what i'm going to need and what i'm not. so there's a bit of an advantage because i know exactly what i need. the disadvantages are thatou don't want to do more takes on yourself than you do on other people. >> rose: (laughs) >> because you look like a jerk. >> rose: most good pactors want more takes than you think are even necessary? >> almost always. almost always. there's some actors that will go "you got it?" there's a famous story, i think it was frank sinatra in "the manchurian candidate" where they

said... oh i'm not sure i'll get it. anyway, it was where frankenheimer said to him... >> rose: john franken chaimer the director. >> he said "give me one more take" and he'd done one take and he said "can we do one more?" and he goes "print it twice." and lks out. >> rose: (laughs) >> but most aors really do like to keep going and will keep going if you let them. >> rose: if you let them. you have to really say "we got it. we got it." >> but if you have a director you trust. >> rose: it's huge. >> it's huge. and this is o often by other films they've done before. and so if i'm wking with steven soderbergh or the coen brothers or alexander pape or jason wrightman, people who i trust and they say "i got it" you go okay. it's fine. you don't think well maybe let's try another one. >> rose: i think it was bill nye

who said to me once thayou have to say every line as if you had just thought of it in the same way at this stage and this table, everything we say we just thought. the difficult thing for actors, anybody, even among the best,is toake sure that you are giving that moment a sense of freshness that you just thought it. >>ight. that is the only rl trick to make it feel as if you'r searching for the words like we're arching for words right now. >> rose: right. >> and the best of them... you know, i used to say to my aunt rosemary "why are you a better singer now you can't hold the notes? you can't hit the notes" she said "i don't have to prove i can sing. just serve the music." >> rose: and the interetation of the song. >> and it's more about not having to show off. part of that is a great lesson in acting which is just serve the material as best you can and that seems to be the best version of it. that seems to be... when i see it at its best, that's acting at

its best, just serving the material. >> rose: when you say that you think that directing gives you more satisfaction than acting... >> sure. >> what do you mean? >> i get to boss people around. i got to boss you around. >> rose: yes, you did. i was scared to death. scared to death. am i pleasing george? is this okay with george? do you remember me calling you right up after saying "you don't have to use this." you said "too late, son." >> you sounded like an actor all of a sudden. "that was terrible, wasn't it?" all actors panic on. in the car on the ride home every actor figes out what they should have done. directing is this: if people don't know what is, it's like at. acting is one element of making a film. there's the script, there's editing, there's music, there's sound, there's camera work, that there's all these other pieces. the director is ultimately in charge of every one of those. >>ose: and you like that. >> that's fun. it's creative. i've been acting a long, long

time. if you think about doing 22 episodes of television a year, an hour a week for 2 weeks, that's liking down 11 movies a year for 12 or 13 years. so i've been doing this a long time so i'm very interested in continuing to be in the entertainment industry and the way you can do that is by being more creative. >> where do you see this evolution of clooney? >> well, i would imagine since it is a constant evolveing... >> rose: you won't know until you get there. >> i don't know. but what i do kn is that i find more and more as i feel that i've had great success over years i feel more and more that there are places that i can sort of spread that wealth. and i don't mean just monetarily. i mean focus on areas where people actually need attention

and need hel i can see that is becoming more and more part of my life. i spend more time... i spd alst as much time on that now as i do on film work and i can see that continuing to become a bigger part of my life. but i still like making movies. i do like... as long as i can get away withaking these kind of movies... and i won't be able to forever, you know. you just can't. >> rose: some people say they turn into directing because they know that's going to end. is that part of it? go to directing because someday you will not get parts the way you can create them today. few people are like paul newman... >> he just kept going. but he directed and produced. i look at it as if i want to be in much... theroblem with being an actor... forget the word star because star comes and goes. they burn out. very few are paul newman. just an actor. the life of an actor in general

will ebb and flow and there will be... at the end of the d it's out of your hand what you can do. you're going to need a script or director, you'll need somebody to make it. this is the only art form i know of that from the beginning to the end cost several million dollars toake. usually you paintit cheaply and you sell it for several mlg but it's a very different... >> rose: but you get actors wh wanto work with you. >> they do and i do. i've always done that. i've done that for over ten years now. i take almt no money up front and this movie if it made $100 million i wouldn't make a dime because we had to give away what percentage we had to get this cast. but we wanted to make the movie and we made it cheap compared to what films cost. made it for $12 million bucks and nobody wants to make these movi. nobody wants to make it.

>> rose: can that change? >> sure. it will change. i'm not the great estefan of all of the sort of instant twittering and stuff. i just for me i don't want to have that much access to anything i say i think there's too much access anyway. but it has changed movie going experiences in some ways because you used to be able to steal aweek wednesday a lot of advertisement and stuff and now you know about it friday night so saturday morning your film is in trouble. >> rose: and how nervous are you? opens tomorrow night. >> i get nervous. it's not just an acting job. this is one i've worked on for five years so you get nervous. i know... >> rose: and it's nervousness about... because it means something to you because your blood sweat and toil are in the movie? because you have been its parent? >> when you are a writer and

rector of the film and grant would say the same thing, i think, when you're an actor in a movie nobody questions your intelligence, you know? for good reason. i've been there, i know. >> rose: the assumption is... >> exactly. >> rose: the way you look at your acts. >> the way i look at myself. but when you direct it they say george, what are you trying to tell us? so there has to be a voice or a reason. >> i don't know, i just... i think that that's a... i don't know. i worry about... i like directing because it's singularly the most creative thing i have ever seen. actors and our industry be able to do. >> rose: and the word that best fits you is film maker? >> i guess so. yeah, that's probably right. for now.

>> rose: what doe lee cuomo mean to you? >> you know, when in your opinion school... think back. >> rose: (laughs) >> when you were in high school and you had... >> rose: in north carolina. >> and it's north carolina and it's right around the endof may and you just feel like summer's coming. >> rose: indeed. >> and you're going to get your baseball hat on, go out andlay baseball for the whole summer, for about the months. >> rose: and there's wate and everything ee. >> all of that. it's swimming and hanging with your friends. it's exactly what it feels like for me right about that same time every year. >> rose: but why this someplace because you lucked into it? >> i lucke into it and i have to say... everyone who come there is-- and you've been there you know what i'm talking about-- it's a place that feels as if we sort of found each

other it's a house made for me. owning something outright, not making payments on it. but that's what i was raised. own dirt. >> rose: it's real and you can touch it and feel it. you never thought it would go down but it turned out it can go down. >> but even if it goes down you still have something. i've always believed in that. >> rose: roll tape. because marisa tomei, one of your actors, wentn conan. lafs >> (laughs) >> rose: (laughs) >> i haven't seen this but roll tape. i think we have it. >> we d some hijinx over there in coe moe. >> what,? really? >> charlie rose, the pbs host who sitst the tablend say "i disagree mr. finance minister." >> he's a sport. >> well what do you mean? >> well, george kind of... i don't know if he set us up but he certainly set us up really well if that's what he was doing. he... we wound up all skinny dipping, let's just cut to the chase. (cheers and applause >> so skinny dipping. u, cindy crawford, evan...

>> well, cindy wasn't there. >> rose: >> let's just say she was there. let's add to the story. >> i know that will be so much better >> let's take charlie rose t! >> he instigated! he instigated! >> charlie rose instigated? charlie rose said "let's get naked?" >> well,eorge said "walter cronkite was here, when croite s here he jumped in the lake." well, he didt on the second night. we're here on the first night, we're having wine, having a beautiful dinner so he throws a gauntlet down, are you guys going to jump in the lake on the first night? are you going to top cronkite? >> uh-huh. did cronkite skinny dip? >> the trap was set. did kronk kite skinny chip? >> he jumped in in full tux. so the only way to top that was to go thehole other way. (laughs) >> i don't follow the lodge tlik but... (laughter) >> rose: (laughs) >> i don't remember any of this, do you >> i wasn't even there. >> rose: what is she talking about. those actresses! >> those girls. they make things up, man.

>> rose: thank you for coming. it's a pleasure to see you. >> good too see you not skinny diing. >> rose: i have no idea where that came from. but i am frequently mistaken for you. that's a fact. do you get the same thing? >> a lot of the time people come up to me... henry kissinger d that to me the other day. >> rose: a series of people on this program have talked about you. we'll leave that as we leave this conversation with george clooney talking "the ides of march". >> grge has his franchise going, "oceans 11, 12" you know we're going to get to "oceans 20." and then he uses that monetary credit to do thre movies, four movies. and i think that's a terrific way to work. because you know that age-old thing is boring to even talk ou. about it. it is a business and an art, no doubt about it. >> george is a very rare creature i think. >> rose: share from >> rare in the sense that he is incredibly politically asuit and very aware of his cache and

using his powers for good. >> rose: by going to dfur knowing people will follow him if he es. >> but doing in the a really... i think the world is so incredibly conservative an we're in a stranglehold where language... every word we choose is..language is a weapon. and i think george knows that so he chooses his words incredibly carefully and his timing is impeccable. >> i had the thought that we ought to have the most heroic actor we could tnk of. who was the most heroic in this moment and that seemed like george clooney to me. >> he had a heroic voice? (laughter) >> but i dn't think about his voice. i just thought about him and h seemed like in a movie you beeved he is the guy who can do these things >> there's no one who's figured this thing out better than george cloon. >> rose: the moviehing?

>> yeah. >> rose: what has he figured snout >> just how to enjoy it, how to abuse it. >> rose: so they don't know you, do they? >> they clearly don't. heroic? george has figured this thing out? >> i haven't figured it out yet. they're all... they're crazy those people. they're nuts. >> rose: you're not. thank you for coming. pleasure to have you here. thank you. >> rose: steve jobs died yesterday after a prolonged battle with pancreatic cancer. he was 56 years old. his death was a front page story. newspapers around the world in the "n york times" it redefined the digital age. steve jobs ds at 56, rerey shaped the wor of technology. in the financial times jobs a creative genius dies at 56. tributes to a founder who defined an era. he once said peoe don't know what they want until they see it but jobs kw long before that what he wanted.

it's hard to overstate his impact on the world. it's even harderto sum up the scope of his accomplishments. he was an entrepreneur whouilt the world's most valuable technology company. he was a visionary who reimagined what a computer could be and he was a pioneer who changed the way we live. perhaps it was jobs himself who best summed up the story of his life in his 2005 stanford commencement address. >> your time is limited so don't waste it living someone else's life. don't be trapped by dogma which is living the results of other people's thinking. don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own inner voice and most important have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. they somehow aeady know what you truly want to become. >> steve jobs appeared on this program in 1996 along with john lasset talking about their company pixar. tonight we share that interview with you. how do you think of yourself i

mean, after apple, how do you think of yourself? >> the things that i've done in my life and the things weo now at pixar, these are team sports. they're not something that one person does. you have to have an extraordinary team because these are... you're ting to climb a mountain with a whole party of people. so one person can't do it. and i first got involved with th when i heard about computer graphic specialists that george lucas assbled at lucasfilm that he wanted to sell so i saw what they were doing and i met the leader of this grp, and ed told me about his dream which was to make the first computer animated feature film someday and showed me what that this team was working on and i was blown away. i spent a lot of time in computer graphics with the macintosh and laser writer but

this was way beyond anything i've seen so bought into that dream both spiritually, if you will, and financially and we bought the computer division from george and incorporated it as pixar. john was there from the very start, ed was there and we were joined by other people along the way and it took u ten years to do it. >> rose: what was so hard? >> it took us a long time to build the technical foundation to do this stuff. we were pioneering every step of the way. pixar invented all this stuff. but as john says, we don't view ourselves as a technology company. our product is content. we're an entertainment company and this is just in the service of story telling and creative people. and computer animation is a misnomer. the computers don't do the am nation, they dthe drawing and they crankn these drawings fo three hours by o of the fastest computers in the world which is why the drawings are three dimensional. but the animateors act and i've watched john and his team work and they're the heart and soul of the characters.

they do the acting, not the computers. >> the point you wanted to make is we're about entertainment and technology and the service of the entertainment that w create right? >> we're aut putting stories into the culture. we're about telling stories. >> rose: and you've got a different paint brush and you've got a different canvas than everybody else does or it's a more advanced... a better, more simple one? >> i know a lot of people at pixar... our heroes are disney. we've all got young children and our kids watch these disney films and they learn a lot from these disney films and good and evil and right and wrong. and they're entertained all along the way. >> one of things pixar is, we don't want to throw everything in the animation film making process out the window and replace it with new technology. we use the technology whereit will make the fil better. story boarding, there's nothing better than a piece of pap and

pencil and a 4 x 8 piece of cellulite. >> rose: you've got story, you got no fil >> and you got no story so you do a story reel. you cut that on to film and in r case we use a computer there we use a non-linear editing system very common in the industry now. but it makes it so we can look at those drawisith scratch dialogues, scratch music, sit back and watch it on the big projection video and that film will tell us if it's working or not. if it's working in our story reels when we animate it and put colors to it, it will mak it better. if it's not working in the story reel, the animation won't save it. >> it lets us beta test and it rate our film before we make it. totally different from live action film making. and we believe it's one of the reasons that the hit rate can be substantially different. that process isn't much different than disney did with snow white. but you look... you know, that's

one of the things is that disy and pixar we labor over the stories. i mentioned that we worked four years on "toy story" the first year and a half was story development alone. we worked so hard because the most important thing to me in creation of "toy story" was to make film that, of course, kids will like because it's all about toys. most kids look at it as a documentary, you know? and the parents are going to like it. and then the adults without kids will like it. and then teenagers. i have a 16-year-old son named joey and he was one of my most important test audiences because... >> rose: snoud >> 16. >> rose: 16. >> andit waso imptant for me... i showed m stuff constantly to see if it was cool or not, you know? >> iean, you've got a pretty good eye for the future. >> um...ell, you know, one of the things... this stuff is really hard. it takes us four years to make these films and we'll get them out more frequently by

overlapping them, but four years is a big investment in these things but when it works it can be phenomenal. "snow white" is 60 years old. who do you know that hasn't seen "snow white?" i know people on most continents-- and i don't think i know one person that hasn't seen snowe white. so the ability for these things to live for 6-0 or 100 years is amazing. that's very different from the technology world i've come from. most of the technology products we do, apple, macintosh, you name it... >> rose: are obsolete in 18 months. >> you're lucky if they live tone 15 years. very rare exception and then they become part of the sediment layer for things to build upon. the things can live for a hundred years. and so it's very different and we're not competing against a microsoft or another company. we're competing against can we make a great film that people love? that's what we compete against. so effort when we go to work we're saying, you know, how do we make... >> rose: all right, but two

questions quickly because i have... one is why should i come to pix if i'm a great animator and if i've got a great story idea, why should i come to you? >> well, i think three reasons. one, pixar's a place more than anywhere else in the world that they can get creative satisfaction. we try to give these aists a oject they can be proud of for the rest of their careers. that's a big thing. i know because i've worked in a lot of places. i was working on garbage and it's hard to work. secondly, in working with these people, i try so hard even if it's the smallest task to get them a little bit of creative ownership, to let them figure out how to do it. i don't tell people how to do it. so that's a really important reason. and the most important thing? at pixar we have a lot of fun. and it comes... i think it shows in the film. >> rose: i can...

>> there's not much political satire on american television. some political satire can be done in animation in an interesting way because you can use characters. you could do this... if you had a good storyteller, have great writers,ou could probably do it faster and quicker and more interestingly. >> political satire is interesting. it's what steve was talking about. it quickly becomes dated. >> rose: oh, i see, so therefore you don't have... >> we tried to make stories that we... you know, that's why the chce of all the existing toys in "city to toy sry" there's mr. potato head, even sketch, the thing we have today. >> rose: and you don't have to fay residuals actors, do you? >> mr. potato head, it was a tough deal to negotiate with him. just kidding. >> rose: i thought maybe somebody owned it. >> well, they do but they were very kind. >> rose: why has the stock...

has that come down? >> well, we went out at the i.p.o. of $22 a share and i didn't check the price but it's probably around $18 a share. and i think part of that... well i don't know why the stock market does what itoes. so that's first answer. second answer is i think a lot of people thought we were technology a technology company and we maybe didn't do a good enough job explaining to people we're an entertainment company. we're not a quarter-to-quarter earnings company. we're buildi assets thatry r annuity into the future so i think people are slowly coming around to that, understanding how difficult this is to do. since "snow white" was released in 1928 which was the first animated feature film ever 60 years ago, every major studio has tried to break into this business. and until lt december, disney was the only studio that had everade a feature animated film that was a blockbuster of $100 million or more in domestic box office. and last december pixar became the second studio in history to

do that. so it's a very, very rarefied ability to make these oducts and i think pixar is really able to do this quite well. >> rose: and what happens after the contract with the three picture deal with disney goes? >> we love working with disney. it's a fan tack i can partnership so who knows? maybe we'll put something together to keep making films with them. >> rose: how do you feel about what's happened to apple? >> you know, all the work we d at apple lives on. it lives on in the macintosh and now it lives nonwindows 95. (laughs) >> rose: yeah, of course it does. but that's interesting to say and clearly it does. but it's windows 95, it's miosoft, not apple. >> right, b it's still the work. it's still the innovation. so... >> rose: did it have to turn out the way it did? >> it's hard to predict these things. >> rose: you've thought about this, this is not a subject that's unfamiliar to you. >> yeah, it is. it's sort of ancient history to

me right now. i don't really think about this stuff anymore. and apple and microst duke it out and netscape and microsoft duke it out and to me it's a spectator sport at this point. >> rose: do you care about it? do you have any interest in it. does the internet mean anything to you? >> sure, the internet is... >> rose: do you use it? do you care about it? >> i use it everyday and i do care about it and i thinkt's faplnal what's happening. the internet is clearly the most exciting ng the computer buness. but right now i look at th computer business mostly as a consumer at pixar because we are one of the largest consumers of computing in the world and we use it to make our films. >> rose: that was your genius in the beginning, yes? you understood the concept and you understood marketing. when you look at pixar, you seem to say... be saying to me and to you and john together as a... my company's misunderstood. it's not a computer company. it's a film making company. and that's sort of a... you realize that in terms of some maybe truth but also in terms of some markets savvy you've got to

make sure that we've got to get this word out that this thing isn't s about entertainment not computers. we don't want to be characterized like everybody else and part of your effort and reason for appearing here and et cetera. >> i think we definitely want to get that word out but i have this incredible confidence that the word will get out and as we make more films we'll demonstrate that by our prults. so the interesting thing is when these films take four years make and that last for 60 or 100 years you start todevelop a longer focal length point of view. >> rose: but you went from a where will you made a lot of money and then scully came in and you left and bomb bomb bomb. then you went to next which is never what people thought it might be. >> right. it's coming back now. >> rose: i understand that. i do. but your head seems to be into film making. but you started this, you went to see george lucas because you're out there as an entrepreneur looking for ideas. >> right.

>> rose: and so you got involved in this idea now you're saying... i'm in t entertaient business. >> you d a good job of brainwashing. he's a believer. he's a believer. >> i got into this because of the technology at the beginning. >> it excited you? >> blew me away. we had more ph.d.s on "toy story" than any time in history. but john's right. he educated me that we are what we are abo is story telling. >> rose: i'm going to interview in five years and find out you're in some other business and you're not in the entertainmen business you found some other well. >> i tend to stay where i start until somebody kicks me out. >> ros (laughs) thank you for coming. great to have you here.

captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at bh access.wgbh.org ou

tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. a conversation with tom montello, the former rage against the machine guitarist continues to enjoy solo success. his latest cd is world wide rebel songs he says troubled times call for trouble songs. chris evans following his role in "captain america" can now be seen in the film "puncture." >> every community has a martin

luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: good to have tom morello, a.k.a. the nightwatchman back on this program. the audioslave co-founder is out

with a solo project called " world wide rebel songs." here is some of the video for one of the songs. ♪ ♪ black spartacus' heart attack machine tavis: i love this throwback stuff. how have you been? >> i am well. tavis: i know you are well because i saw you on bill marley's show.

you were on fire. >> be careful, i might tell you what i think. tavis: ryan, who is my floor guy, is also billed for got. you really were on flyer picturfire. what has got you so upset? >> there is a lot of injustice in the world, tavis. it is what i try to confront in my life as an activist. the genesis for the record was both an act of injustice and the act of great heroism. some of the lower great guitars made by gibson and fender used to be made in a factory in seoul, korea. the workers in that factory formed a union, and they were all fired and the factory was shut down and move to china. they came to the united states looking for help. i offered to play a benefit show for them, but the day before the benefit, the earthquake in haiti

happened. we voted -- that voted to donate 100% of the proceeds from the benefit show to the relief effort in haiti. i wrote that song "world wide rebel songs." you are seeing poor, working- class people standing up for their rights around the globe. tavis: i am struck by the story of you doing something for one group, and they decide to pass it on to another group. what did you take away from that? >> that there is hope. there is hope in these dire, economic times. it occurs to me that the people who own and run this world really do not deserve to do so. they often do so with greed, without regard to human rights and human insanity. those korean workers had