[laughter] >> sorry. >> no need to baptize her now. >> oh, come on, dad! it's mont blanc. it's the alps. i can practice my french. please? >> no. >> why not? >> i don't like skiing. >> it's not skiing. it's snowboarding. you don't even know what snowboarding is. >> katie, i'm not going to change my mind, okay? >> what's the point in sending us to this school if we can't join in? >> you ready? >> yeah. >> bye, mum. >> see you later. >> homework. >> we've done it. >> good. so let me see it. >> for god's sake. [letters clattering] [knock at door] >> hey. breakfast. >> no, terence, i wanted to look at your homework.

>> yeah, this is it. we've got to take in a book we've read and talk about it. >> you haven't read that book. you've only seen the video of it. >> so what? >> so the book is nothing like the film, i'm afraid, and i know 'cause i've read it. >> oh, man, you're in trouble. >> bye, mum. >> oh, um...sorry. only i'm laying the tiles and varnishing. >> how long's this going to take, rick? >> um...should finish today. >> great. and then i'd rather you didn't do anymore jobs unless i ask, okay? in fact, i'd rather you didn't come round at all unless i ask. it's not fair on either of us. >> have you met someone else? >> [scoffs] well... even if i had, it's really none of your business, is it? look. i'm not interested, rick. it's not what i want, all right? and you can't win me back by doing jobs for me all the time. just don't even try.

>> i've bought you a "lat" and croissant. >> "latte." >> whatever it is, i know you like it. oh, and there's one for molly. >> "i'm scared that trust, once broken, is gone forever. it's like taking a blind person by the arm and walking them into a lamppost. why would they ever want to go any further with you?" >> [whistling] >> [sighs] a cappuccino from rick. >> that's all right. don't knock; just come in. >> mum, if you want privacy, get a place of your own or put a lock on the door. but don't ask rick to do it! [tv murmuring] >> mrs. thomas? viney? >> is fast asleep on a can, a brick platform, heated from underneath by a stove. >> it's william.

>> on cold nights, the whole family sleeps on a can. because in winter, the temperature here can fall to 17 degrees below freezing. >> [sighs] oh. >> and it hardly ever rains. >> [gasps] oh. viney. viney, it's william. william shawcross. >> ♪ love one another ♪ with a true heart fervently will you sing that at my funeral? >> oh, viney, i'm a tenor now, and that's for trebles. >> oh. >> but i could arrange for a couple of choristers to sing it. >> oh. like it was for both my husbands, yes? >> i didn't know you were married twice? >> my first was run over by a lancaster bomber in the war. >> i'm sorry. >> he won a medal for it.

>> my wife was run over by a car. >> was she? oh, i am sorry. was... she the love of your life? >> no, she wasn't. >> no. mine wasn't. but have you met someone else? >> oh. >> oh. [both laugh] [rick whistling] >> write her a letter. >> write who a letter? >> mary! >> i've never sent anyone a letter in my life. >> so think what it would mean. a letter from the heart's a very powerful thing it touches you. you learn about these things you'd never normally learn.

you can't interrupt, you see. all you can do is read about these feelings that really matter, like trust and looking after someone. no, don't worry. don't worry. i'm going to help you. i know what to put. >> no, thanks. >> "no, thanks"? >> she doesn't want me, molly. >> you're not giving up. don't tell me you're giving up. >> she doesn't want me. she told me to my face. >> so write her a letter. >> no. i'm gonna do the floor and go. i love her to bits, molly. i'm never gonna find anyone like her again. i'm not even gonna try and look, but she doesn't love me. never has, never will. i've seen it in her eyes, so... >> i'm going out. >> you posted her a letter. >> well, i couldn't call her. >> well, you know her address. go round and see her. go round and tell her you miss her and you love her.

>> what, just knock on her door? >> what've you got to lose? everything if you don't; nothing if you do. >> you sure? >> [scoffs] no. but if it hadn't been for that lancaster bomber, i'd have never met my sidney. ooh! what's the time? >> nearly 11:00. >> good. snooker's on. >> the all-round exocet, ronnie o'sullivan. [cheers and applause] >> thanks for this. >> no, no. i'm looking forward to it. this dating agency's got it coming to them. >> good, 'cause i'm in the wrong frame of mind. i keep thinking there must be some kind of explanation. >> mary, he's lied to you. he's cheated you. he hasn't even bothered to call you. >> i know. >> so just keep thinking about that, keep thinking he's an absolute total bastard, and there's your explanation, right? >> yeah, you're right. you're right. i know you're right. thank you. sorry, tell me again. >> what is this, temporary insanity? look.

you've been treated appallingly. >> i can't help it. >> yeah, okay, listen. i'm in charge, all right? >> that's what you described him as, that's what he told mary he was, and that's who she went to bed with: a "community worker"! and let me tell you how that was for mary. let me tell you what she had to do when she came round to my house the night she found out. she had to take a shower when she got there. she had to scrub herself. because let's face it: would you go to bed with an undertaker? >> we obviously understand how distressing this must have been for you, i mean, i can't apologize enough. it must have been absolutely... >> then get your checkbook out. >> we will, of course, return your fee in full. >> [scoffs] this has gone far beyond a simple refund. >> i'm sorry, did you have something in mind? >> solicitors, a malpractice claim, a court case: yeah, we've got a few good ideas. have a look at this. it's a press release. now, i don't know if you know the journalist philip peterson. this is his latest piece.

we thought we'd send it to him first. >> i mean, if you can come up with an arrangement that's satisfactory, we're only too happy to tear that up. >> are you trying to blackmail me? >> let me see it. let me see it! £2,500! >> you were brilliant! thank you. >> what are you going to do with it? >> i don't know. i've never had so much money. >> use it. don't fritter it away. do something with it. blow it! >> i will. terence! terence! >> when did you get back? you all right? >> doubt it, no. [knock at the door]

>> can you get that, terence? >> oh. sorry, i was, um... oh. >> do you want something? >> you don't happen to know where mary gilcrest lives, do you? >> yeah, of course. >> you do? oh, great. where? >> here. she's my mum. >> oy! >> oy, sorry. can you lend us a couple of quid? >> try the tool-belt. why, who was it? >> i don't know, some bloke for mum. he's gone. i just want some chips. thanks, rick. see you later. >> what was his name? did he give you a name?

>> mary? >> hang on. >> has terence been back? >> i don't know; i've been out. is he not at school? >> oh, my god! >> yeah, it's a bit yellow. >> a bit! >> and too shiny. >> it looks like a cow's urinated all over it! >> i was trying to think what it looked like. >> have you seen the kitchen floor? >> peace offering? >> [sighs]

>> i look at you and i see myself. i don't want you to be like me: bad at picking men. i want you to be with someone you can trust. it's like... i've always been blind and a succession of men have taken my arm and walked me into lampposts. >> lampposts? >> yeah. and they all tell you it won't happen again, but it does. it's lamppost after lamppost after lamppost. so you turn to someone who promises you they're not like that. and they go and walk you into a bus stop or a litter bin or something. so in the end, you're walking down the street like... so that's why i want you to be with rick. >> ugh. >> he won't do that to you. >> mum, i thought you were trying to tell me something about yourself. >> but he loves you!

>> mum, thanks for the chocolates, but i don't want to be with rick. [sighs] >> [sighs] >> the excuse is what? where have you been and how many times have you done it? and don't lie to me. there's a lot at stake here. >> that was the first. >> i said don't lie! >> on my dad's life, that was the first! >> oh, on your dad's life? >> i know he never remembers birthdays or anything, but he's still my dad. >> just get in your room.

the first time? >> yeah, i didn't even know where to go or what to do. that's why i came straight home. >> terence, you've just walked in the door. >> no, i was here before. i borrowed some money off rick for some chips. ask him. >> okay, so what was all that yesterday with your ankle? which, incidentally, seemed fine today when you ran off. >> i'm no good at school. >> of course you're not. how can you be? you don't work. >> i do. >> terence, you had not done your homework for today, had you? no, because you can't be bothered, and that's what gets me, because you're as bright as brendan, probably brighter. the only difference is, he does his homework. he works. >> i do it most times. >> properly. you don't do it properly. what's the point of that?

well, this is all going to change, 'cause i'm coming in to see your teachers. >> jokin' me. >> why, what do you think i should do? >> what you're doing now, giving me a bollocking. >> yeah, but idle lazy people don't mind getting a bollocking, do they? no, i'm going to find out where you are in each subject, and you are gonna start working like you've never worked. and if there's sufficient and sustained improvement by easter, if you work so i know you're working, then i'll take you and brendan out to see your dad, okay? i've got the money. all you have got to do is match it with the effort. >> i'd do anything to see my dad. >> rick, what are you doing? >> it's still wet. >> [laughs] >> [chuckles]

>> sorry, i forgot. a man came round for you earlier. he left this. >> i got lost. >> so i gather your main objection to snowboarding is the apres-ski sex? >> no, it's not actually. [cell phone rings] >> well, if it's not that, what is it? it is that, isn't it? >> kate. >> you haven't answered it yet! >> can you hang on a minute, please? hello, mary? mary? >> i don't know if i want to see you. and i'm on call tomorrow and friday. >> okay, right. >> what do you mean, "okay, right"?

what, that's it? you're gonna give up just like that? >> i'm not giving up. i came round. i want to explain. >> i want you to explain. so what's wrong with tomorrow in the day? why don't you suggest that? >> well, i'm working. >> you mean doing a funeral? >> two, actually. >> all right. well, what are you doing now? >> well, the girls have got their music lesson, so-- actually, no. are you at home? >> you can't come round here. >> well, i'm going to be in your area. >> who was that? >> just someone from work. >> he's got a girlfriend. >> no, he hasn't. >> i could stick new tiles on top. >> no, thanks. i'll get someone else to do it. >> are we really gonna do this, mum?

>> we're doing it. >> when? >> well, first of all, we've got to find out exactly where your father is, and then we've got to find out when we can get the cheapest flights. >> have a look in there. >> how are we gonna find out where dad is? >> listen, we'll work it out later, okay? i've got to go out. i won't be long. >> bye then, mary. i'll be off soon and... well, what you said about not coming round... >> oh. yeah, great. thanks. >> sorry about the floor. >> it's fine. see you. >> he lied to you, okay? he lied to you. he cheated you.

>> hi. hello. >> hi. >> thanks for coming. i know it's only for a few minutes, but it's good to see you. did my letter make any sense? >> "will you see me? i want to see you"? yeah, i think i got the gist. >> no, not my note, my letter. >> what letter? >> i sent you a letter. you should've got it this morning. >> well, it hasn't arrived. what did it say? >> do you think i'm making it up? do you think i didn't send one? >> how do i know? >> i can practically recite it. i know it off by heart. >> go on then. >> hang on a minute.

don't read that bit. that's not in the letter. >> get off. >> you don't think i'd just come round like that do you, without apologizing? >> what? >> what? >> the dating agency told you to say you were a community worker! >> well, they said i wouldn't get much response if i said that i was-- >> yeah, i can read. shut up. it's not a bad letter. what's that word? that one. >> "lamppost". don't you like that bit? i thought it was quite good. >> [sighs] can i have this? sorry, i'll call you later. >> i don't understand. are we going to meet up again? >> oh, yes, i have questions. i have lots of questions, so you only came round 'cause you thought i'd got your letter? >> yeah, it wasn't my idea though. it was a little old lady's. i'll tell you later.

>> that is unlucky. [audience groans] that is very unlucky. >> [sighs] >> what a shame a game of this quality has had to come down to a little bit of bad luck. >> [sighs] >> hey, mum, there's loads of offers on the flights to the states! >> yeah, but we don't know where we're going. and how are we gonna find dad? >> recognize the writing? recognize this paragraph, "walking into lampposts?" uncanny isn't it? i want my letter back, please, and then i want you out of this flat. i don't care where you go, but i don't want you here. get me my letter! >> mum? >> stay out of it.

>> i thought it was addressed to molly gilcrest. i thought it was for me. >> don't be ridiculous. >> i know it's stupid but-- >> come on, we're going out to eat. i want you gone by the time we get back. >> oh, no. >> come on. >> [whistling] >> feet. >> why so happy? >> oh, you know, sometimes life looks up. [crunching] >> so can i go snowboarding then? [laughs] >> he's got a girlfriend. that was not a definite no. >> so is that from the bloke who came round today? >> yeah. >> is he your boyfriend? >> do you remember that cd i gave you? >> oh, it's the guy in the band? >> yeah. >> safe, mum! >> but he's also an undertaker.

>> [laughter] >> safe, mum. >> yeah, safe. >> do you know how stupid it sounds when you two say that? "safe, mum." >> does any of this affect going to see dad? >> no, of course it doesn't. but we do have a problem now that molly's gone, like what happens when i'm on nights. >> we don't need looking after. >> yeah. >> [scoffs] yeah, right. >> viney. viney? it's william, viney. oh, viney. i saw her. she called. and i saw her,

and i'm seeing her again. god bless you, viney. >> the good news or the bad news, william? well, i don't have to do nights until i get someone to sort out the boys. i have to do all day sunday instead. i know, i know. but how about monday? monday morning? >> monday morning. monday morning's good. same time, same place. it's a date. it's a very important, unmissable, unmovable date. yeah, mary, i think i've got to go now. all right, i'll see you then. bye. yes, bye. bye. >> bye. >> bye. morning. william shawcross,

the undertaker. >> keys? >> may i offer you my condolences? >> won't even cover costs. how much is the funeral? >> actually, your mother's already paid for that. would you like to see her? >> she's not here, is she? >> no. >> no, i want to remember her as she was. >> what you doing? >> red for you, blue for me. and i'm having that. >> when would you like the funeral? >> soonest, innit? monday morning?

>> have to be. >> monday morning might be a bit difficult. >> double-booked? >> it's monday morning or we go somewhere else. it's up to you. >> i couldn't not help her. she asked. >> it's fine. [cell phone rings] >> hi. yeah. monday afternoon then. okay. [chuckles] bye, william. >> mary. please, change your mind. >> i can't, mum. i'm sorry. >> i know i was bad. i know i did a wrong thing. >> mum, you came for six weeks sometime back in the last century.

>> it wasn't as long as that. >> it was 18 months ago at least, and you came for a visit. this isn't your home. >> can't you forgive me? >> i'm sure i can, yeah. but i can't live with you anymore. sorry. >> there's another funeral at 11:00. >> yes, i know. i'll just go and phone them again. >> [murmuring indistinctly] >> we're to go ahead. they can't make it. [solemn organ music] ♪ >> ♪ love one another ♪ with a pure heart ♪ fervently

>> both: ♪ see that ye love ♪ one another >> ♪ love one another ♪ with a pure heart ♪ fervently >> both: ♪ see that ye love ♪ one another >> ♪ love one another ♪ with a pure heart ♪ fervently ♪ a pure heart ♪ fervently >> both: ♪ see that ye love ♪ one another >> ♪ see that ye love ♪ that ye love ♪ one another ♪ with a pure heart ♪ fervently

>> both: ♪ see that ye love ♪ one another >> thanks for that. >> no, it suddenly occurred to me that if she hadn't have told you to come round, then you would never have left that note, and i'd never have known you'd written that letter, and oh, i don't know, would we ever have seen each other again? >> probably not. how did you know i was here? >> phoned william shawcross & son. >> ah. yeah. yeah. do you want to come back for lunch? to my house, not the office. just somewhere quiet to talk. >> just talking, right? >> yeah, this is clearing everything up, straightening things out. absolutely, yeah. >> yeah, okay. [giggles]

>> i'm sorry you were lied to. >> by the way, you're still a community worker in bed. i can't handle the truth and sex yet. how could they tell you to lie like that? what kind of dating agency are they? >> one that wants to make money. >> you went along with it! >> well, because in my experience, when you tell people you're an undertaker, they don't on the whole say, "well, hey, let's go out together!" >> [laughs] but it had to come out! >> you're telling me. but you made it easy, you said don't let's talk about work. >> oh, it's my fault? [sighs] well, i've got a problem. no, not that kind of problem. can you get my bag? >> where is it? >> downstairs.

>> okay. afternoon, mrs. ball. excuse me. mrs. ball's here. our housekeeper. that's all right, you don't have to go. >> but maybe get dressed? >> she won't come in here. she's just seen me in a new light. what did you want to show me? >> i complained. well, my friend complained. well, actually, she threatened them. >> we could do all the dating agencies!

>> the thing is, i've promised to take the boys to see their dad on that as a bribe. but if you and me... well, the dating agency did their job. look at us. >> cash it. >> you think? >> yeah, no one's ever going to know. cash it. why do you need to bribe your boys? >> terence, my youngest, you met him. >> yeah. >> i caught him bunking off school. and it's not a great school, so if he doesn't work... >> why don't you move him, move school? >> because the others are even worse. you see, we've got two private schools in our catchment area, good ones too. i hate them. no, that's not true. i'd love my boys to go to schools like that. what i hate are the parents who buy their children an advantage at the expense of mine because that's what happens. i mean what do you do? you've got st. hilda's round here. what effect does that have on you? don't you look at the parents

driving their lovely girls to their lovely schools and think "bastards"? see that's the problem. everybody wants everything to be okay. they don't want to think they're being cheated, but they are. we're all being cheated! sorry. pet hate. what school do your girls go to? >> well... >> no. what? ugh! >> mary. >> what, you think i just say those words? >> mary! >> i can't be with someone like you. i despise people like you! >> well, let me explain! >> explain what? why your children deserve better than mine? oh, drop dead and bury yourself!

>> if school has only just finished, then how come you're home so early? >> they said you'd be out! >> what do you think you're doing? >> but i've re-done the floor, and i spilled the varnish all over myself! >> [sighs] [sighs] [knock at door] >> i am not the greatest father. i'm out of my depth. i'm not around all the time. the only female influence

in their lives was mrs. ball, so i sent them to an all-girls school so they just might get the support that i can't give them. that's why they go to st. hilda's, okay? >> [sighs] >> william, wait! wait. please. wait. that was rick. that was rick. he's laying my kitchen floor. he's no one. well, i used to live with him, but it was a long time ago!

>> safe, mum. safe. captioning by captionmax www.captionmax.com

>> rose: welcome to our program. we begin this evening with leymah gbowee, liberian peace and women's rights activist >> my story is the story of every african woman. if you have a true worth of life

you just give up, the story is a story of victory. the story is the story of not allowing yourself even as you seem as a victim but that your actions and activities point to one of a hero survivor. >> rose: we continue with the executive editor of the "new york times". >> the new place is the old place in many ways which is what the d distinishes the "times" as quality joualists and we do that in print in the print newspaper and we do it in innovative ways digitally by the hour. we deepen stoes by bringing readers into the conversation, you enliven a story and add new dimensions to it and i've been very invested in our digital

work and even arthur would use the phrase we have to be ready for r digital future. well, it's not the digital future, it's the digital president. >> rose: leymah gbowee and jill abramson when we continue.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: gbowee see here, she is a liberian peace and women's rights activist. e and the president of liberia were two of the three women awarded this year's nobel peace prize. in 2003, she led a coalition of christian and muslim women n a campaign to end liberia's civil war. their prote culminated in the exile of former president charles taylor. leashians electeded ellen johnson sirleaf who became the first f modern modern

african history. gbowee tells the story in her new book called "mighty be our powers: how sisterhood, prayer and sex changed a nation at war." i'm pleased to have her at this table for the first time tell me why this is a powerful story of our time and change. >> my story is the story of every african woman, who has lived true povert who has lived through abuse. but the beauty of that story is that even when people would think that having gone through the worst of life you would just. the story is the story of

victory it proves that a hero or shero or survivor. so this is a story that the media in the west really doesn't contribute effortly the story of how women survive and how they build peace and thaw they bring the communities back to a state of sanity. >> as a young person you look at yoself and said "i'm intelligent, i beautiful, i can make a difference." and then later you realized it's going to be much harder than you imagined. what happened? >> yeah. well, growing up i had all of the confidence of a nmal teenager with good grades and thinking you're going to conquer the world. all a sudden one july morning i wake up at 17 going to the

university to fulfill my dream of becoming a medical doctor and from 8:00 in the morning to 10:00 i became an adult fighting erupted, my parents were nowhere to be found. i am now responsible for over 20 persons in a home by virtue of the fact that i was the only child of my parents in that home later on they came back and my mother was like "continue as you've been doing for almost a week." it's like from teenager to woman hood in a matter of hours. then many decisions and acts of war and acts of my own... myself decisions by myself led me fro one stage to the other until where i felt like i was on top of the world. i got to the place where i was at the depth of my own life. >> you're married, you had one baby. and then... w sue knew this was

not good for you. this is not a good place for you. >> well, it's, again, like many women in abusive relationships you're thinking okay, i have a child now, i want this child to grow up in a normal family setting. he's probably going to change. >> rose: your husband is going to change? he'll be better. >> yes. thgs will get betr. one child leads to a second child. a second child leads to a third child. and the longer you stay, the deeper you find yourself sinking into a state of no return. >> rose: what was the motivating factor for you to say "no longer i've got to go"? >> well, for me, i had in my head a place that i will not sink to. i took all of the physical beatings in private but always said to myself if i'm ever insulted publicly, that's the end. and so the cutoff point was one morning when i really got abused in front of the children

packed my things and you would think it's crazy because you've lived through this for so long and what is verbal abuse but i just told myself enough was enough. pack my things, packed my kids and we went to the refugee camp and then hitchhike add ride to monrovia from gahn... from ghana to monrovia. but there was always this thing of did i make the right decision? was it the right choice? because, again, so self-esteem, no sense of future direction. then one morning my son would not come out and he said "grand ma, i woke up and i saw the net, d then i saw the man's shoe d i thought we had gone back to ghana becse i was afraid, i didn't want to be close to my father." at that moment i said to myself "what have done to my

children?" >> rose: can women change africa? >> yes. and i think women are changing africa but you have little media spotlights on the things that they do. in the midst of poverty keeping communities going through their microeconomy and through their family and community activities. in the midst of hardship, in the midst of war, these t people who are negotiating peace at the community level. in liberia, the current feature of the war was when a young man in the community got arrested it was the women who would gond try to negotiate for his life. so these are things people don't see on a regular basis. women, they're doing what they think is okay to change africa.

whe we find ourselves now is stepping into bigger space or different spaces to say we want to be involved in the conversation around our natural resources, we want to be involved in the conversation around the politics and the decision making of not jus our communities and our nation and i think once we continue to you're going to see some of the good changes on our continent. >> rose: and the president of leash ya was a fellow recipient of the nobel prize. >> she was one of the core recipients of the nobel peace prize and i think in six years lie year was at a place where it was really, really horrible but the twork is getting better, you find education being decentralized. different regions of liberia where people have to trek for dayso come t monrovia, the capital, far university are now boasng of universities in these areas big hospitals are

coming up in different areas. she's she's really taking us from that place of social degradation to a place where the world is now looking at liberia as one of those nations if we continue in that trend. that will be a place where peoplewill really want to go and to do business. >> rose: so suppose your grandchildren come to you one day and they say "what did you do to overthrow charles taylor? at will you tell them? >> i will tell them that i took my pains, took my fears and turned it to courage and mobilized my fellow women and we did what we were supposed to do. we protested we were in the

streets picketing. we spoke truth to power and we were able at the end of the day to draw attention to the problems that we were facing even after the attention was drawn to our problems we continue to push we succeeded in giving liberia and i think it will be at a place where my grandchildren are asking me where this count industry developed and you don't have any signs of war anymore so this nation you're seeing 20, 25, 30 years from now, 30 years fast forward, is at this place because of the work that we asked liberian women, by stepping out and confronting evil. i will be telling name story because i'll also want to bring them to a place where their fears, their pains, the anger can be translated in something positive to bring change to their communities >> it's an interesting phenomenon to be able to rise beyond your fear. i mean, clearly in the arab

spring for all the problems, for people to risk their life they have to rise beyond their fear and that's exactly what you women did. >> definitely. but when you've lived through fear for so long you have nothing to be afraid of. i tell people i was 17 when the war started in liberia. i was 31 when we started protesting. i had taken enough dosage of fear that i had gotten immune to fear. >> rose: really. >> yes. >> rose: the first tim i saw a dead body i freaked out. but at 31 i crossed over a dead body without thinking twice. >> rose: do you want a political role? >> why not? and i think i'm definitely going to go for it. if you look at the players of politics in liberia, i don't think a lot of those people who even tried to run for the presidency of liberia, even for parliamentary are smarter than i am.

>> rose: (laughs) i don't think so either. i can't imagine they are. >> a i don't think they have the interest of the country at heart like i do. so why would i not wan to run for politics and if politics is going to help bring liberiao the place that i wanto see beria and if my stepping into the space is going to do so i should stand up. >> rose: so you want to be president of liberia? >> the sky i the limit for me. i never put a limit to self. i could be president of liberia and do a very good job. >> rose: and what do you want to see happen to charles taylor? >> well, i hope he doesn't ever have the chance to see the light of day. never come out, never see the light of day. because for anyone who can unleash terror the way he did to liberians and the way he did allegedly involved in sierra leone, he shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets. he shouldn't be allowed the pleasure of seeing his grandchildren. he shouldn't be allowed the

pleasure of even living a decent life and i think the hague is too decent for him. >> rose: you would rather he had been taken care of in liberia? >> in a place where there's no electricity because there are people living within liberia... without electricity because of the terror he unleashed on them. there are people cooking outside because of the terror he unleashed on them. i would have lov to see anymore a place where he's not even sleeping on a bed or on a mat because, again, that's what he did to people in liberia. >> rose: so what he d to people, you'd be prepared to see him? >> he should really live and go through a fear of what he did to the people of liberia. all the money that has been spent on his comfort i think should go to the people who suffer the most. >> rose: the victims. >> yes. >> rose: all the money should go to the victims. >> it should go to the victims.

and if they find some of his, it should be used to reconstruct and rehabilitate some of those places that were destroyed. today we're still struggling to get running water, electricity in liberia because one person one personecided... even when liberians forgave him in '97 and voted him as president, he decidedly continue to be a terrorist. >> rose: the idea ofomen's empowerment has great... has become a powerful idea around the world. what stands in theay of its achiing all that it's... all ofts potential. >> i think we have a lot of commitment, rhetoric, but the real action to empower women... the political will is lacking. someone once said in order to empower you must give up some of your power. >> rose: in order to gain power

you have to give u power? >> you have to giv up some of your power. so if you want to mentor me as the next producer of the charlie rose show, you have to give up some days that you're sitting on the step because that's the only way i will be able to do the work the way you do it so i think globally a lot of our leaders are not prepared to give up some of the power that they have in order for women to step into the space. there's a lot of fear around women's empowerment. so we'll do all of those protocols and internaonal policies and instruments but when it comes to the actual and physical provision of the resources, taking actions, we will stay back. >> rose: do you think women will handle power differently than member? >> i think so. i have been... and i'm not saying... there haven't been women in history who have had powers and conducted themselves just like men, but i would want

to say a vast majority of women would think more critilly before doing anything. i think most often you find some of the men not all of the men but the men who just think it's all abt themselves, all about their interests and all about different things. i'm tempted to say something abt the politics of the world, you know, how people are holding on the what is supposed to be for communities because of political eid yols. i would think that 50% of women in the particular parliaments would be thinking for the greater good of the people instead of the agenda that they are pushing for. >> rose: are there any scars from your experience? >> yes, i have some traumas that i live with on a daily basis.

one of those is that i cannot function in an orphanage with all of my advocacy and activism, i get paralyzed when i go to a place where children have been affected by conflict. i cannot move, i can't do anything, i can't think. myther trauma is that-- and thiss a crazy trauma-- at some point in time i had little or no underwear so now i just buy underwear, that's the other trauma i have. >> rose: you didn't have underwear so you just buy more than you need? >> yes, because i feelike maybe i'll get to that place where ill have only two so let me just keep buying. but that's the other trauma i have that from the war. food in my pant i have another trauma. so we just keep and keep and keep even when the kids cannot

eat i should always have abundance of food in my pant voy these things i continue to carry for the rest of my life. >> rose: this is your story and memoir and this is what the president of liberia who shed the nobel prize with you, ellen johnson sirleaf. "leymah bore witness to the worst of humanity and helped bring liberia out of the dark. her memoir is a testament to the power of women, faith and the spirit of our great country." >> yup. and it's beyond the power of liberian women. i think... like i said elier it's the story of women globally who have gone through conflict. i'd just like the-to-step into this space to say that, you know i have been involved with abigail, the makerf the documentary "pray the devil back to hell" and they have done this five part series called "women,

war and peace." and if you look at this story from afghanistan, from colombia, bosnia, and then the overview of war redefined you realize that women bear witness tohe worst, but then they're still able to come out and move their communities forward. >> rose: and achieve their potential. >> of course. >> rose: thank you. >> you're welcome. >> rose: jill abramson is here. she is the new executive editor of the "new york times." she is the first woman to hold that position since the paper was founded in 1851. she was a former investigative reporter who rose to prominence as a washington correspondent and editor. she joined the "times" in 1997 and has held a variety of positions including managing editor and washington bureau chief. jane mayer of the "new yorker" mag zen said "she i a vigorous defender of the truth and she is fearless."