>> rose: welcome to our program. we have the results from iowa, and then we have an assessment of where we go from now with david brooks of "the new york times", and mattçó dowd of bloomberg news and abc news. >> you plead to have a total sense of your own gut, you need½ ekuz develop a narrative of youe with that vote, with the voters, if you need to learn and be abli to connect practice as you go through things in iowa, but don't spend all of this time on fund-raising, don't spend all of this time on searching for the right consultant, don't spend all of this time on doing all of these things campaign seem to spend way too much time on and basically figure out a development of your own self an then say what are the moments debate and other press moments where at those moments i am going to be at the top of my game. >> rose: we conclude this evening with the actor kevin spacey, he is the director of the old vick and his latest

production this which he stars in richard the third. >> i mean look i have been here a lot and sat at this table and talked about a lot of experiences i have had, nothing i have ever done in a theatre s compared to whathis experience has been like, both in terms of the challenge of it, how terrified i was to doit when we started, the joy of doing it and i suppose for me the st important aspect is, this is exactly what i think a company of actors should be, i love this group of actors, they are absolutely -- >> rose: politics with brooks and dowd, shakespeare with spacey. when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose for was provided by the following.

captioning sponsored b rose communications

from our studios in new york ty, this is charlie ro. >> rose: we begin tonight with politics, and the republican presidential race and the dramatic results inçó iowa, on tuesday evening the long time front runner mitt romney beat the late surging rick santorum by just eight votes. fon paul finished third and wasr santorum who was polling in single digits very recently an it was the end of the road for michele bachmann, sh dropped out of the race today after placing sixth on tuday. >> last night the people of iowa spoke with a very clear voice and so i have decided to stand aside, and i believe that if we are going to repeal obama care, turn our country around and take back our country, we must do so ited, and believe that we must rally around the person that our country and our party

and our people select to be that standard bearer. >> rose: now turns to new hampshire and south carolina which vote next, mitt romney commands a comfortable need the granite he statement and added john mccain who twice won the primary in new hampshire. >> i am really here for one reason and one reason only, and that is to make sure that we make mitt romney the next president of the united states of america and new hampshire and new hampshire is theñr state tht will catapult him on to victory in a very short period of time. >> rose: it remains to be seen if santorum can gather the organization and the money to move forward, newt gingrich and ck perry have both so far pledged to stay in thexd race. joining me now from washington, david brooks, column list for "the new york times", and here in new york matthew dowd of bloomberg news and abc news. david, what did last night tell you about the republican party, about the upcoming election, and

about new hampshire? >> well, it has got some categories, what struck me was how democrat nothing at this matters if you look at the demography matters, it was pretty much the same as the dsimilar .. number of college educated, few more conservatives, similar number of young, old, and mittç"romney did exactly the same in 2 person then as now so he is tacked into those people doesn't seem to have gone above or below. >> a large chunk of social conservatives, rick santorum tapped into them so i think it was just a question of these blocks which are prett deep in the republican party as well as the libertarian block that ron paul tapped into, they are there, and they are still there, and so the landscape is still fundamenlly the same, my vie of romney, though, is that he is more likely to get the nomination now than he was a week ago,çó but he is still wea, and thquestion ishat kind of weak is he? is he good weak or badñi weak? the good weakness s if people don't like him if he

can't get above the ceiling of 25 percent for policy reasons. is he too moderate for this party? that is good weakness because it will help him in the general election is, is it bad weakness they just don't warm to him personally and that will hurt him so we will figure that out over the next couple of elections wh kind of weakness he has. >> rose: why can't we know by now whether people like him? >> well, we know that people don't warm to him, we ow they think he is a rich guy, peter hart the great pollster for abc and wall street jcvery good fock when herman, herman ca was rising high and asked this question, who do these candidates remind you of in your elementary school class? and hermanñi cain reminded them of e funny guy and sort of liked him. newt gingrich was e nerd, the know it all, rick santorum was the bully, and mitt romney was the richkid.@good thing to be. >> rose: and michele bachmann

was a teacher? >> she was then, the interting by the way he asked what was -- he asked what -- who is barack ama like, and they said, we don't know, there was nobody like barack obama in my class which is a bit -- >> rose:hat is interesting but the grea columnist from "the new york times" david brooks said th following, america does not want to see harvard law versus harvard law in the generalçó election. so square that. >> well, i think that is the key to rick santorum form's perpetuation, he rose because he is a social conservative but not only social conservative. he is also a genuine working class kid, hisñr grandfather waa coal miner as he says, his dad came over, was an immigrant, and got an education through the gi bill and he represented west pennsylvania, the dying steel towns there, and so he genuinely has these working class roots and at he said last night in his victory or pseudovictory speech about the dignity of

labor, that is marrying sort of social conservative values to the economy, and he talks about we can't have a growing economy without strong families, without strong communities and he lived that basically in the senate, and so this country has had a lot of pseudopopulists coming uprising but only eting so far, people for mike huckabee, even dick gephardt on the democratic side and if he can marry the social conservative message with really an economic conservative, really, more populist working class message and just sent off a working class vibe he could well because the republican party is the party of the working class. >> rose: my sense about this is for both of you, my sense is that the is a re underway now and not just a political race, it is the competition between how fast mitt romney can somehow convince conservatives, because of electability, and other issues and he is truly a conservative. how fast he can do that versus how fast republicans can coales and be convinced he is not that,

and they can come together and accept somebody as the alternativto him. >> well, i think that -- when you take a look at this race, right now is that the field n knows too quickly before he builds momentum he is in big trouble, that's a big problem for him, so michele bachmann leaving today, though rick santorum decided at the last minute he would stay in which i think helps mitt romney but that always has been the plan he needed to build momentum beforec the field was winnowed because i think they understood and he understands th race has always been about mitt romney, 25, 30 percent of the vote and everybody else, and all the dynamics of this race, and i agree with david, i think one of the interesting things about iowa, iowa last night a how it split was very telling, because what it is is republican voters have been searching for a candidate that have two attribe ms. this race, basically have the attributes of competent, electable and they can see as commander in chief and the attribute of authentic and genuine in a true conservative, the problem in this inter race is they have not

been ablto find somebody who is both, and so mitt romney is competent, electable an ca be seen as commander in chief, he is not seen as genuine and authentic and so now they have picked before last night five different people to try to see as their alternative, all of those five failed, the last one standing is as of right now is rick santorum and can rick santorum embody both of those values, can he be both a genuine and authentic conservative and be somebody who is perceived as competent and electable? if he can do that, he is going to give mitt romney a big time race. >> rose: has he been vetted,ñi though, rick santorum? >> well, he has been vetted me than the other candidates, he has been vetted more -- >> rose: santorum has? >> yes more than her main cain was vetted and more than michele bachmann was and more than rick santorum although rick santorum had been governor because he served in a swing state and had to take a lot of heat in pennsylvania where he is from, that is going to be his nestñi e next week or week and a half, i don't think new hampshire will tell us a lot more than what we know today, but i think what will tell us a lot more from

what we know today is soh carolina and florida. >> rose: why is that? >> because ithink people have already baked in a rception mitt romney is going to utu hampshire, there is really no question about that, i think the press already sort of got the story he is going to win and not again give us a lot of information because he is basically lives there and has a house, there i think they are waiting to see, can he win in a place, a place like south carolina or place like florida, where there is a combination of voters with he he doesn't have any regional strength and i think that is his test. >> rose: does newt gingrich have the capacity to d damage to mitt romney in new hampshire that that will wound him as he goes into south carolina, david? >> he is an amazing capacity to do damage to himself. >> rose: yes we know that. >> we have seen that a few times. i think he does, i think he has the capacity to do damage to the entire party, i am noture people will listen to him about romney, but he could turn this party just into a mud fight, o man, one fight and that is just going to help the democrats, i

think barack obama had a very good couple of months and because he has done things so i think gingrich has the potential not necessarily to affect one candidate versus the other in the republican primary but just to lower the whole tone of the whole thing and the danger there actually is probably less to romney, as this things gets vicious and goes to south carolina iis going to be be a lot more vicious tn it is now, romney shows amazing discipline not to do anything different, sometimes to a fault, last night he basically gave a stump speech on national television, he should add something new the way barack obama did four years ago, but rick santorum's problem and potential problem is not anything hidden in his past, it is his personality, he has a tendency to bear grievances and very unsuccessful, extremely unsuccessful reelection rates in pennsylvania six years ago, he became obsessed with philadelphia enquire irrelevant and some of the pennsylvania media treating him unfairly but get over it,nd so he has got

to not sink to the level of ayner, bitterness, resentment that, the edginess and nastiness he sometimes has shown so if it gets ugly his personality will be tested. the interest interesting thing i was thinking about mitt romney this morning and if mitt romney was working at bank capital and sobody said i have a company for you to buy and the company said here is what we project we will be in four years, we are basically going to try to make no errors and basically just try try to ride this thing out and what we are going to tell you is the market share we have today we will he in four years from now is what our plan is, romney would probably fire that ceo, that has been mitt romney's campaign,. >> rose: so why doesn't speak to his competence? >> i think what it speaks to. >> rose: you just said he passed that test, the threshold competent but not authenticity. >> the most difficult hinge to market is you can tell somebody or you can convince somebody you can be competent by behavr, the part of the problem is once you are viewed as inauthentic and not genuine it is very hard to sell authenticity people think everhing coming out of

your mouth is political or isn't genuine. >> rose: so the is the sale to the conservative three out of four people in the replican caucus in iowa who voted against him i mean their issue is authenticity and are you basically saying that is a very hard sell for mitt romney and if it is how does he get the nomination. >> i think his route to the nomination is not really in his hands, really, fully in his hands, i think what it is is he understand it is only way he gets the nomination is he is the last stable person standing. and the only one that is really in his way at this point in time is rick santorum, i don't think john huntsman can get any left lift and not a part of any dialogue for weeks because he skipped iowa, he has one chance. >> rose: and also goes around saying it doesn't matter. >> that is not -- so once you are out of the dialogue i think mitt romney's basic strategy has been to make few errors, stand along, everybody else will fall and finally people will say where else do to go, let's nominate mitt romney i think that has been his strategy. >> david.

>> if i would amplify that point, if you are not authentic you can't assess rifb, if an intuitive peeled feel for the party or the electorate is you can take a chance because tuitively it feels right to you and you are in tune with the party so you can leap off that bridge because you know it just feels right, but if you don't have that intuitive feel, you have got to do a study for everything so you can't take any risky maneuvers and i think that sort of has been hisroblem, a couple of years ago or many years ago i had a chance to have dinner when i was a young book reviewer with tom clancy, and clancy started waxing rhapsodic about military hardwe and i am looking at the guy thinking you can't fake that. if you don't love military hardware you can't write books about milita hardware. and -- and so some people have that intuitive sense, and he loved it. and, you know, franklin roosevelt in his day had an intuitive sense of where the country was, if you don't have an intuitive sense you just have to be cautious all the time, and i think that is romney's problem

now, maybe he does have an intuitive sense and doesn't trust himself the good side is he hasn't made any mistakes and hasn't tied himself to any policies that will hurt him in the ll. >> i want to say a little bit about are rick santorum there are lot of people in new york and washington, d.c. in the last few days that are totally underestimating rick santorum's ability to become the alternate five candidate and build a level of support, first of all he is going to benefit from the fact that this race has always been about who is the alternative, that is now on him, he is going -- watch his poll numbers grow, nationally, watch them bro in new hampshire, he can't w new hampshire, watch him grow in south carolina and florida, also i totally agree with david, he is the only real candidate out there that speaks with a level of passion and fervor and almost conservative populism the other candidat thought rick santorum was going to be that guy and turned out not to be that guy. rick santorum has the social conservative bent but also has the ability to be the worng class buy, the average working class guy and the republin party is no longer the party of the wealthy, it is the party of the, basically of really of the

white working class male, the white working class male in this country is who dominates the republican party to a large degree. >> rose: can he be a candidate of compassion the way that george bush 43 wanted to be? >> i think he has .. elements of it, when you listen to him in the debate, he was the only person in the entire bates if you go back tha that talk about economic mobility he didn't talk about class warfare, talked about ability in this class to move from one class to the next and we have to solve that problem, he is the only one that really had full funmental policy change welfare reform he was one of the few people the reason it got through was because of him, because of rib rick, i think he has the capacity, there is part of him that can be a little mean that can come across as a little bit mean spirited when you talk to him sometimes or see him in a crowd but i think he is the only one right now th has the ability to be a populist in a race that that is why sarah palin and pelle, where is sarah palin, we want him although she is incompetent a big part of the republican party that wants a

populist and rick santorum could do that, could do that if he can maintain itheext couple of weeks. >> and the mental competency you talked about. >> more and more competent as you win elections, my guess is if you have, asked if he was electable today two, or three times higher than it was two days ago, if he wi south carolina his electability number goes u dramatically. >> do you age with that, david? >> i would say on compassion, he was compassionate befe bush -- i mean heid compassionate conservativism before bush. >> rose: absolutely. >> in he was leader in something called the renewal alliance with dan -- and others where they did a lot of anti-poverty work, not only here but in africa and elsewhere, so he was really a leader on that. the competence is somewhere, i think we begin zero to have some questions, can he run a successful campaign and can he build a team? that really is theñi test, because he does to e have really arofessional team of people to run a big campaign, he may be rely on some church groups for organization, but we haven't really seen that at any

point in his career. >> rose: who in american politi, whether they are running forresident, whether her the president, or someone who is not involved in either of those has that sense of where we are and can put together the elements and explain and communicate and inspire and ask people for sacrifice? >> well, i don't think there is think candidate running for president on the kem or the republican side that is that persontoday, rick santorum has some elements of it today, and mitt romney has a few things but he doesn't have an intuitive sense but no one running for president, if you look at people who have a gut sense of how to connect with where the country is, and whether or not you agree with him or not, bill clinton has a gut, a great gut level ability to know where the country is, to be able to connecwith the country and then speak to it, that is what made him such a fascinating tuion, you may not le sarah palin, but sarah palin and some of t things she said and how she says it and i believshe is not alified to be president but sh has a gut level sense add, an intuitive sense to a

large degree of a huge element of the country and where the anxiety is, but part of the problem is today we are in a political time where people think success is not calling people ta shared sense of mission in the shared sense of sacrifice which is funny thing since bush got elected basically with that message we need to bring the country together and this is what we do and didn't do it, and barack obama, for all of the things that he did and said, one hinge that people wanted to tap into was we are going to bet the country together and come together and we are going to do that, he had a few opportunities along the way but he basically rned back to the traditional democratic diatribe of us versus them and the country i think a huge part of independents are waiting for somebody to say give us a sense of where the promised land is and thenask us to do something. we had two huge windows after 9/11 and after barack obama got elected where people wanted that called sense of shared sacrifice and both politicians didn't do it. >> rose: is obama's future somehow beyond him buzz it is one the economy, and two, who the republicans might choose?

>> i would say anglo americais in more control of barack obama's future than he is. if europe implodes, then, you know, rickantorum or anybody could be elected against him. he has some responsility, though, and just to build on the last point, i think obama's problem, and this is not -- the republicans have their problems, but their solutions are not out of scale with the problem, they have very big solutions, one of rick santorum's long-term vulnerabilities is he thinks paul ryan is too modest in cutting medicare, he wants to start with today's retirees if you are 55 or 65 he wants to cut with you and believe me that would be a deep problem in the general election but at least it is a big solution, obama, what he has to do is give us some program not only just running against congress and run against the crazy republicans but give us a proam commensurate with the size of the problems so to

that extent his future is in his hands, but, you know, the europeans, should be worrying about as we know. >> what have we learned from the republicans so far? >> well, we haveearned as i said, they are in dire search of the right candidate and they can't seem to find it in this field, they know this is a nomination well worth having, president obama is incredibly vulnerable, much more vulnerable that president bush was in004, much more absolutely herbal, his job approvals ght to ten points lower, the consumer nfidence numbers are 30 points longer a and the wro track numbers are 40 points lowe tha in 2004, that has not yet caught up to president obama, it will at some poin when the republicans settle on a candidate, but i think what we have learned is the republicans know president obama can get beat, they just can't seem to find the right combination of values in one candidate, okay we found it now let's me on and that is a problem. >> rose: do endorsements make -- david, i'm sorry. >> i would say what we learn is the mo hbo by horse of mine, moy

is vastly over rated in politic if you look at the results rise right new i think i read a statistic rick santorum form spent $1.65 for vote and romney 200 bucks a vote for rick santorum 800 bucks a vote, so, you know, you can spend a lot of money but if you don't have the candidate or e aience there it doesn't really matter the second thing is the that the electorate in iowa, it was very different than the electorate last time, it is a mixture, a much angrier, much more dour and pessimistic so the candidates have to be ayn from i and optimistic at the same time and that is sort of a tough challenge and then the final thing i think i have learned is there is a paucity of political talent out there on the republican side there is some talent maybe waiting in the wings but t necessarily on the stage, on the democratic side i was with a bunch of journalists at one of these dinners and all saying, if obama wins in time or who is lily to be the democratic mom knee four years from now? and it is actually hard to think of a lot of superstarsmerging, maybe

hillary clinton, maybe cuomo, but besides from obama right now i don't think there is a huge talent pple i think a lot of good people are being chased away from politics. >> rose: because of the nature of the public discourse, because of the nature of the invasion of policy or something else? or the whole motion of the power of, or the perceived power of money which you just debunked? >> part of the problem is ere is lack of organization -- especially on the republican side which basically is gone, that's the other thing we learned and i agree with david, there is basically no republican establishment any longer in this country that can move this process along, one of the reasons we didn't have certain candidates run is because of that, because basically the fraternity is running the campus, and they don't think there is an ability to sort of get through that and whether it is tea party or other voters her in charge now, there is not a publican hierarchy in charge anymore and en that happens, you basically left in the devices of the republican voters and a lot of candidates say i am not going to to rough that, mitch daniels, jeb bush, a

number of other people. >> rose: chris christie. >> if they has an organized republican party they could say we areoing to get you through this process and might haveñi gotten in but i doesn't exist. >> rose: suppose somehow in new hampshire and when in south carolina mitt romney sumness and suppose it stumbles badly, unlikely to happen based on his discipline so far. would the republican establishment come together and try to stop a rick santorum or anybody else who they believe has less chance ofbeing elected? would they go for somebody he think is more quote, establishment like mitch or somebody else, some other governor? >> well, just to echo the point we just said, if the republican establishment came together i think it would be in a photo booth, i don't think there are many. i don't know who it is. so i do think -- i do think there are people out there who are talking to mitch daniels, talking to others and saying hey, how is that life insurance policy here? >> suppose you were let's say a

governor who has been in two terms or a senator two terms who wanted to be the democratic mom knee in 2016, you as a political advisor would say to him, go to iowa,çó and spend a year. whats what jimmy carter learned and that is what rick santorum learned. what i would say is, worry less about having fund-raising events all the time and more worry about getting to know yourself, if i was giving some advice you say u need to know yourself, you. >> rose: towed have a tal sense of your own gut, you need to develop a narrative of your own self and how to communicate with that vote, with the voters if you need to learn and be able to connect practice as you go through things in iowa, but don't spend all of this time on fund-raising, don't spend all of this time on searching for the right consultant and all of this time on doing all of these things that campaigns seem to spend way too much time on and basically figure out a development develop of your own self a and say what are moments, debates and other press moments where at those moments am going to be at the top of my payment. if you can do that, you can win this thing without, while being

out spent five to one. >> rose: i would add know your country. what would you add to that, david, know yourself and know your country. >> between john f. kennedy and barack obama, 60 some odd u.s. senators ran for president and their record is 0 for 60 some odd, they all lost so i take great delight why do you senators lose so much, how come nobody likes you and the general answer you get is, well, we take tough votes, they come back to haunt us, but the most honest answer i not was from a senator who ran and lost, and said, you know, we are united states shawrts we are not used toñr staying in the mote&zsix in pocahontas, iowa, we just don't like living low to the frowd ke tt, but rick santorum lived low to the ground and nobody was paying attention month after month, 380 town halls, an so my view is if you want to run for president you have to be willing to eat rocks and be willing to crawl along the ground in rural iowa, and in new hampshire and everywhere else and you really just have to want it that bad. >> rose: david thank you very much, thank you for coming,

pleasure to ha you baack. >> always a pleare. >> rose: david brooks in washington, greatxd to see you,y friend. >> thank y. >> rose: matt dowd here in new york with bloomberg and for a news during this campaign. kevin pace situate is here, he has won the oscar forhis performances in e usual suspects a american beauty, he is also a man of to the theatre, he has starred in plays like the iceman cometh and the artistic director of the old vick theatre in london here is a look at some of his memorable film work .. >> okay, everybody. on the table. money, jewelry, anything you got that i want, you hold anything back and i will kill the lady just like that. >> the people are insane, they just like talking to salesmen. oh. i'm sorry.

why? >> because i don't like you. that guy is tense. tension is a killer. i used to be in a barber shop artet the baritone was a guy name kipp, he was so stresd in the morning -- >> you know we are trying to help you. sure. and i appreciate that. and i want to help you, agent cual, i like cops. >> don't ask me to pity those people, i don't mourn them anymore than the thousands that died at sodom ando mora. >> is at thesame town of what you were doing with by's good work? >> with gos good work. >> the lord works in mysterious ways. >> yeah, can i ask you a question? who is tamlin does he exist because he never seems the come in? yeah i will leave my number, it is 555-0199. lester burnham.

thank you. >> ♪ >>ome people sajak moves too fast, jackie cuts corners, well i say to them if that is the difference between me and my family having a good life and walking the subway every day then so be it. i will not allow my appeal to be slaves. i will not allow the world i touch to be vanilla. >> rose: that is your life there, sir. a tribute show, what are you doing. >> no it is not. >> rose: it is not a tribute. >> we just wanted you to see da -- >> wow. >> either you are very old or you have been making a lot movies. >> one of the first clips you shown i haven't seen forever that was my first first film,

mike nichols, meryl streep is the, more reinstaplon is in that scene. it is a long time ago. >> this is about nora efron. >> that's right, and her relationship with karl bernstein, yes. and jack nicholson and meryl streep played in that. >> how many movies have you made? >> i don't know. >> rose: and do those bring back memori? >> yes, absolutely, absolutely. i am looking at jack lemmon and he is so much a part of my life even today, you know,. >> why so? >> because sort of the foundation i started my own foundationast year because as i am looking down the road knowing i am going to leave the old vick in 20 15-all the work i have been doing there in education, working with emerging artists we have a great program called old vick, new voices about encouraging and giving a place for young actors, writers and producers to learn their craft, and we had a remarkable sort of success record of people

we have nurtured o have now gone zero on and joyce situate o'rourke is going to run the del mar and one of the young actors we supported so aot of people i want to continue that work, but once i lose the venue of the old vick i won't have a place the to do it and i d't want zero to run a new theatre so the foundation is the vehicle ian cocontinue to do that kind of stuff and a large reason why i am doing it is because when i grew up and i was starting out, you know, when i was in high school, i met jack lemmon when i was 13 years old at a workshop, very much like the workshops i am doing right now with richard the third all over the world and it is partly because jack had this kind of .. great fill at this was if you have done well in the business you want to do well in then it is your obligation to spend a good portion of your time sending the elevator back down and that's what i am doing so jack is always there loo all right. let me talk a little bit about what you are doing now. take a look at this, this is from richard iii.

>> now is the winter of our discontent. may glorious summer by this son of york. it is a quarrel most unnatural to be revenged on him that loveth thee. >> it is just and reasonable to get revenge on those that killed my husband. what i will swear by now. thou -- buckingham lend me thy hand. >> on the battle think of me, fall thy edge ls sword, despair and die.

1,000 hearts break within my bosom. march on, be brave and it is not in the heavens to hell! victory! >> rose: that is kevin spacey in richard iii, it is a touring production, directed by sam mendez, debuted at the old vick and ends its run in new york city at bam, michael billing on the of the guardian the great newspaper has written this, when the history of spacey's old vick regime is written iuspect it will be his rich left dangling upside down like the slaughtered mussolini that will be remember. was he right about richard iii when you look back at the old vick is that going to be sort of

what -- >> you know, i don't know. from my perspective, what i know is that if i hadn't had the expeence of going to theçó old vick, if i hadn't had the opportunitto work with the directors that i worked with since i started, if i hadn't been there now for nine years and done the work i have done, i wouldn't have been ready to do rich, i mean richard is, as you may well know, the second longest role in shakespeare's cannon after hamlet, and i think partly what it does is it actually expose as young playwright in shakespeare, 28 years old when he wrote it and he had not yet learn the lesson he later learned and applied to his later plays which is to give leading actor breaks. so out of 26 scenes, richard is in 23 of them. and so when we started, when sam and i began the experience, back -- back in, back in may in london it wasn't until really the first week we started previews that i started to get a

sense of what the ask was, what it was actually asking because until you start to put a play togethert is jt sort of moving parts and working on individual scenes and then you put it all together and i know at first week there, several members of the company that thought i was actually going to have a heart attack, backstage because it was -- the only thing i caniken it to is that it is probably what it feels like to ride a tornado. it is a monstrous, epic, huge piece of work, and yet it has done the opposite of at i thought it was going to do, i thought it was going to kill me but actually energized me, it is the most extraordinary -- i mean, look i have been here a lot an sat at this table and talked about a lot of experiences i have had, nothing that i have ever done in the theatre has compared to what this experience has been like, both in terms of the challenge of it, how terrified i was to do it when we started, the joy of doing it, and i suppe for me

the most important aspect is, this is exactly what i think a cane of actors should be, i love this group of actors, they are absolutely dedicated to it and we have now done over 150 performances around the world, we have been, i just have come back from 11 cities, if you include london, around the world we havbeen touring in the last four and a half months, and it just has been extradinary. the 16th century play that is being greeted like it is a rock star. >> rose: whahas theld vick done for you? then i want to know what you have done for the old vick. >> well, the old vick came along at sort of the perfect moment, you know, i -- you showed some film clips and american beauty being one of them, it was sort of the end of american beauty that i just thought, you know, the movie had come out and focused on trying to have a film career for about ten, 12 years, and it had gone really well and i was like well now what am i

supposed to do? am i supposed to do what i see a lot of people do which is they just keep on that train and keep making movies and keep right to be hot an be on those lists and i was li, no. i mean, a i have done it and b it went really well and am i going to spend the next ten years of my life trying to top myself? and i thought, no, i thought actual i want something different, i want something that is a new challenge, and a different kind of thing and i never had run a theatre before. iertaly admired those who have, whether it is olivier or joe pap which i fortunately was a, which fortunately was a mentor of mine and i think there was something about going -- after spending ten years of havinghat kind of, you know, like blinders on, you know, i am going to have a career, you know that kinof ambition that you have when you young, i no long very that kind of ambition. my priorities shift and to be

able to focus as i have for these past nine years, on a company ethos, on something that was not about me, but was bigger than me andtrying to build a theatre company that i hope will last long after i am gone has be the mostatisfying and the smartest choice i could possibly have made at that moment in my life. i know it was the right choice. >> where will you leave in this three years? >> well what i hope to be able to do in three years time is build enough of an endowment so that that the person who is going to follow me as artistic director won't have to spend as much time as i had ofdoing the song and dance to raise money because we bet no public subsidy whatsoever at the old vick so all of the education work and all of the stuff in the community. >> rose: you had to raise the money. >> we had the raise the money and i don't want to saddle somebody with that kind of responsibility, it is exhausting, it is difficult, and in particularly in difficult econom tis one of the asons i am so delighted and

amazed we have been able to do richard third and the bridge project for the last three years is because bank of america and merrill lynch says we believe in what you are doing and they have supported us so not all bankers horrible. and what i want to be able to do is to make sure that the things that wput place that are not about artistic tastes but are about the work we do with young people,the work with emergi artist it is work we do in the community, that stuff i would like to have stay, i want to see that whittled away because it doesn't make money, but it will be time, there will be time where a theatre comes ere it needs new artistic blood, i am excited about somebody else will come in and choose the plays and the directors have when you decided do richard iii and it was right for you, the time was right for you and the theatre to do it, there was lawrence olivier. >> yes. >> that was mccullough len. >> anthony shino and do you go

look and say i have got to do something different?i have to build on this? do you say i don't even want to see that because it will come right out of my brain. >> it is very funny because i was really nervous aboutt, because it is just, you know, a it has a huge history of incredible actors playing it, b, olivier did it on the stage so i am literally stepping into his shoes in a way. no, what i didn't do is watch any of them, i remembered them and i talked to sam particularly about the physical manifestation of the role, how do you, aness what do you do physically that is different than what anyone else has done. >> rose: physically. >> yes, physically because he is a deformed king and there are actors that who didn't do that much, i think he had aidth erred hand so all about the dexterity what he could with one hand, anthony sheer was look like and eraordinary endunce test because he was in those sort of things where he was like this. now i have a brace and a cain and a hump and i twist m body

in ways that require a good deal of treatment afterward, but i actually ended up going on utube and i was looking at an interview with olivier and i am watching and just innocently watching it and he suddenly starts to talk about enduring the production of richard iii he went through, a tremendous bout of stage fright, and he literally mentioned that word and i went stop, i don' i don'to see that! >> rose: oh, no. >> am i crazy. >> rose: why am i here? >> and did you watch it, though did you see why he had stage fright? >> no, i didn't want to know and i don't care, because every actor i think to some degree has this fear, you all go through it when you forget a line on stage, oh, my posh. >> rose: what do you at a moment like oh, my gosh. >> look, the company koff richard iii could tell you story after story after story about the fact that i make up words, now, look i see nothing wrong with it, shakespeare made up a lot ofords as well, but i tend

to, i don't apologize for screwing up. i just somehow forge through and oddly, i end up making it in the iambic pentameter. >> i have a play and to this end we wish your lordship here to avoid the 7 users of the karpg world and epidurr irs in front of 14,000 people i said, and to this end, we wish your lordship here to void the children of the starving world and my two fellow actoent, whatid you just say? i have no idea. >> rose: and they pick it right up. >> but the point is that i have often believed that if you just forged through, if you don't apologize, if you don't go oh something went wrong the audience doesn't know an they think it is part of the play unless you fall in the orchestra, they think it is part of the play so i just keep going. >> and the most satisfying as you said shakespeare for you, most satisfying thing, and if that is true, why? what i it

about richard iii that makes it, for you,? >> well there are two things. one is that because of the device of the direct address to the audience, you have a relationship with an audience that you don't normally have in a play where you don't break the fourth wall, even if you are looking out, you kno you don't look at people, but in this, part of what richard does in shakespeare's brilliance is he is making the audience his coconspirators, he is saying come look at what i am going to do. can you believe i got away with that. so there is a great kind of relationship between the audience and the actor playing richard, and they love it, up until the point when they start to realize they have been encouraging this guy to murder people right, left and center. so tre is that. it is a very unique feeling. and secondly, i have to say because what we tried to do, sam and i have with sam and i with the text of the play. this is connected to a whole bunch of other plays, war of the roses

anif you don't know those other plays there is a lot of stuff in richard iii in t folio and certainly in the more modern versions of theplay in which characters just go on and on and on about events that happened in other plays, with characters that never appear in this, so we did a lot of shaping, a lot of cutting of characters, cutting of dialogue, of giving better die willing to different characters, improving the three women roles, jonah jones, guinn and annabelle are all wonderful in their roles, improving those roles, shifting the character of richmond, who in the end in the battle she the one that kills richard in the end, long speeches, and long speeches, you know, sort of like two pages of stuff from richard and then him, we didn't it more like film like back and forth, so we did we did a lot of things to try to make richard iii a

stand-alone play knowing we were going to all of these cities around the world. we have been to hong kong, beijing, istanbul. >> and do audiences respond differently? to different moneys to different -- >> well, you know, to some degree, you can tell, you kw, certain colloquial things that maybe a british audience may laugh at that an audience in naples doesn't necessari get but i will have to say this, it has been quite remarkable that in every city we have gone to, we have felt whether it is doha, in qatar or singapore or sydney, australia or, you know, naples of san francisco, we have felt our audience absolutely enraptured for three hours, in a play because we are doing it in a modern context but not cellphones and computers modern but modern in a sense we use video images and look we couldn't have known or imagined that as we were in rehearsal the arab spring was starting, and

characteristics just like richard alround the globe are falling or people are rising up against. i only really sort of felt, wow, it is so contemporary when i was watching bbc news program and i this at this king of jordan just said as sad should step down and democratic elections and came back to the bb dr. bbc commentaries and d't you feel this araspring is turning into winter of discontent, i thought, well, it actually isn't that big of a leap from the winter of discontent of the arab spring and i think maybe that is one of the reasons why the play is resonating wi audiences everywhere that they are seeing images and ideas and things in this play that they go home at might and watch on cmn or of course on cbs morning news. >> rose: of course starting january 9th. >> starting january 9th. thank you. >> rose: thank you very much. >> so what does sam bring to

this? >> he brought a lot. sam, first of all, i want to have to congratulate him on being able to bring 20 actors totherho can become a company. because, you know, you are dealing of actors of different ages and different times of their life and different experiences and different theories and different training and yet he has got this brilliant way of bringing everyone together, so by the time he goes, and goes off and shoots james bond, and we are together, wwe are working togeer as a unit, as what a true company should be. we trust each other, i love this company so much. rose: lawrence olivier and al pacino. >> it is huge, like -- >>ose: yes indeed we are trying to get the truth, the pursuit of truth is our middle name. here they are performing an opening monologue from richard the third. >>

>> i am finished. this is the end of my breathing world. that is unfashionable that the dogs bark at me. i am the sweet incarnateassing away the time. therefore, since i cannot prove to entertain these well, spoken i am determined to prove the idle pleasures of ese days. >> rose: a love story. first tell me about olivier. >> yes, he didn't do -- if you

see as he walked away he didn't do much in terms of -- someone came backstage when he was doing the play at the old vick and said did you notice -- notice what? i stopped limping in the second scene. >> i don't think anyone notic. and -- >> is that the way he talked? >> al came -- >> rose: he always has been a great mimic. >> al came to see our richard in londonnd he goes, great, and he took the time to come because he was showing film in venice and came to see the place and it was great. it was like, oh, you are graduate from buckingham to richard. oh. you are a good man. he was incredibly generous and it was great to see him. but it is sort of amazing to see all of those in a row and i saw mckellen and i saw movie and also saw him do it on stage which is brilliant. it is one of those, you know,

doing it, i understand now why it haseen one of those parts that actors have loved to play. there is -- there is somethi about the way he goes about doing things, this sort of audacity with which he does stuff, and also for me there has been a real exploration of trying to take a character who is absolutely convinced he has no conscience and by the end of the play he wakes up to one after the nightmare. and can't deal with it. and tries to dismisses it and die. rose: for a moment of levity i -- because i mentioned your mimic abilities here is you on this program. >> i will be interviewing bill clinton. >> all right, you go right ahead. . >> mr. president, can y imagine being the first spouse in the white house?

>> if your wife -- [ applause ] >> charlie, not only can i imagine it, but i dream about it every night. >> rose: why do you think your wife -- >> oh, we are going on. you like this? >> rose: yes, i do. i can play this game. why do you think your wife would make a good president? >> you know what it means be president. you were there for eight years. what does she have? >>ell, she has what she always has had, she is smarter than me. all of my best ideas came from hillary. you know the american actor kevin spacey. >> oh, he does a good i

impression of me. >> >> rose: i assume -- >> maybe -- >> i don't remember what we were doing it f. >> rose: and you saw the tea, you sathe president recently. i got him a video for t tenth anniversary of the theatre. hhe is in good spirits and thin. >> he is a vegan now. who would ever he thought that. >> rose: a man who loved life, a man denied, but he likes -- >> no, he does. he dropped weight. by the way, i have been on the richard iii diet. >> rose: what is that? >> well, literally i have dropped 20 pounds doing this play because it is an insane workout every might. >> rose: i ask seriously people this because we do a series of conversations here called why shakespeare, just because i am asking a locker room question, what is it about shakespeare for you that makes you want to go back and back and back and back?

>> well, first of all, his extraordinary ability to understand human beings, and everythi that we experience, love and hate and jealousy and the need for power and the beauty and the poetry of the way in which he saw things, and always because his characters are in the middle of the problem, you know, her in the middle of trying to solve something, so many of shakespeare's characteristics are so active, characters, tively tryg to deal with this thing we call life, and because to some degree it does often feel like it is a different language but it almost doesn't matter, i mean that is what i have experienced going to all of these cities around the world whether we have sub titles or notby the way don't look at

the sub titles why you are on stage because in spain they are right there, and someone says, yes, my lord and u see si, senor and it is just not the same thing. he just, i mean, hook, you know, these are 16th century plays, and yet they can feel like they were written today. they can feel like they are about today. and that, of course, is the test of any artist is the test of time. and he is going to be around for a very long time. >> rose: so are you. thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: i will make this small note here. we talked about it since i get back to plugging for you, richard iii begins previews at the brooklyn academy of music on january 10, that is next week, opened on january 18th, the following week, 2012, it is part as we have talked of the bridge project and is coproduced by bam, the old vick and neal street. thanks to you and sam mendez. >> thank you.

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