>> rose: funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. campaign. ten states across the nation went to the polls today.

419 delegates were at stake, ohio, tennessee and georgia. as of this taping a clear winner has yet to be declared in ohio. mitt romney and rick is an form continue to balance it out. rick santorum prevailed in tennessee with a comfortablably. mitt romney won his home state of georgia with homes this will revise his campaign. republican candidate to one 1,144 delegates will falls president obama in november. joining me from washington, al hunt in charge of bloomberg's coverage, jane coming editor of bloomberg news. mike murphy a contributor to "time" magazine and republican at any rate gist and matt dowd is a contributor for abc news and bloomberg news. i'm pleased to have both of you at this table. how good is that, al. we go first to al hunt. don't you michigan you were at the table. >> -- don't you wish you were at the table. >> i do, i do. >> rose: not knowing what's going to happen in ohio, tell me what you see this evening that tells us where this race might be headed. >> mitt romney probably moved closer to the nomination tonight racking up more delegates. yet when you look at it charlie, it was a very troubling night

for gone romney unde governor r. what the romney people hope for tonight was a convincing victory in ohio, they clearly didn't get that. either upset win at least come very close in tennessee and they didn't get that. they hope the exit polls would show greater strength among the republican base, evangelicals, self-style conservatives and the working class people who, white voters, the reagan democrats, if you will who are often so important in the general election. they struck out on all counts. even if he should win use by a narrow margin. so i think it was a very disappointing night for governor romney and there's nothing this evening that will encourage rick santorum or newt gingrich much less ron paul to get out of this race for governor romney. >> this was a night everybody knew mitt romney would put together delegates mainly because the fix was on before

the might began because of what happened in virginia. rick santorum hadn't filed the right paperwork in ohio and all of that. but i think right now the main thing he needed to do was show he could unify the party and be a strong front runner. i think tonight the only thing tonight did was to put an exclamation point how weak of a front runner he is. not only looking at the states you mentioned and al mentioned but even virginia. 41% of the voters in virginia voted for ron paul as a protest vote to mitt romney that they did not want mitt romney. rick santorum and gingrich with you na were not on the ballot. ron paul was for decriminalizing prosecution and got 41% of the republican primary vote. that was a problem for mitt romney. this was as bad a night as mitt romney could have had even knowing what we knew before it started. >> rose: he could lose ohio. >> he could lose ohio. when you look at the numbers now at the beginning of the night i

think they thought they were going to win this, they thought they had the momentum but it looks now in the last votes that were decided in this thing, they went to rick santorum. i think a closer, even if he pulls it out late late late late late, this is a problem for mitt romney. he's still likely to be the nominee but he's real damaged goods. >> we're in the middle of a lot of drama tonight that the romney people did not want. they wanted a quick win, they're getting world war i here they're getting trench warfare that may go on and on. i feel sorry for him because you're doing well, you think you're going to bint it dowfnlt you start hearing exit polls at 5 or 6:00. >> rose: got all the endorsements lined up. >> the next thing you're watching a tv with a bottle of whiskey and a revolve wondering if you're getting through the night. that's what's happening in ohio with rick santorum. he had two things to get done tonight. he was getting a lot of delegates for freevmen free. he will probably get a letter from putin.

to stop next week's alabama and mississippi raises, he has trouble in the south. and most importantly beat i santorum once and all for ohio. lost fend ohio too close to call. as matt says, 40% plus the people voting for ron paul that's an unnatural act. it's not about ron paul that's about anti-romney energy going almost anywhere to make that statement. so it ain't over. >.>> compare this thing to 2008 and mccain. john mccain did not lose a primary or caucus after february 9th. he did not lose a single primary or caucus after february. >> rose: he sew ited it up on super tuesday. >> it's like i got the vict traits buttened down. that's the problem he's got. i don't see another stop for him to see what mike's talking about. he'll probably lose mississippi alabama and then goes to april, this is a big problem. >> and illinois which is

expensive. the one bright light for him is in the business of pure delegates. he still has some advantages. he'll win some places tonight. once you start then you start losing delegates. they aren't connected. he has to win in the south and win big in illinois. >> rose: jeannie. >> i think the romney chain would have taken tonight as an opportunity to begin pivoting towards the general election where they can really start focusing on what are the arguments going to be there, what do we say about the president, really honing in on the message on jobs and the economy and not being pulled into some of the debates over social issues that may work well in the primary but can be real trouble when you get to the general. what tonight has done again just echoing what everyone else has said is that he can't make that step. in fact, he can't make that pivot now for weeks to come. so he's not just in a hard fight

to get the delegates and to continue to win over his own base and to show that he has a diversity support in the republican party. he's dub none of those things. plus he can't look forward. this is very, the republicans set this up so that they could try to get a model they could duplicate what the democrats did in 2008. in fact, they're getting, in some ways the reverse. their front runner's not getting better, he's getting weaker and the machine is not being built up around them. the turnout in virginia because of the problems with the ballot undoubtedly but it was 5% for crying outloud. it was the lowest they ever had in a presidential primary. there's no energy that's coming out of these that's a positive sign for when they go into the general. >> i'm kind of hoping for a show trial after the election. when we get the members to push there this idiot proportional system. we decide the democrats and you get delegates and go back to our mean republican social darwinist

winner take all. because this thing is not helping. >> rose: so if you're governor romney, you both have been in the room, what do you do? matt? >> well, i think he has, honestly i think if he has to take a hard look at his tam in my view. -- team in my view. you've got a guy that's outspent his opponents 10 to 1. you got a guy that every single advantage going into this. he's gotten every single endorsement. he's done all the things he thought he was supposed to do. he's performed reasonably well as almost every single debate but they still can't put together a campaign effort that sort of locks this thing down against really flawed campaign. >> rose: but changing the theme is onteam is one thing. what would a new team recommend. my question goes to what idea is there that could turn around the romney campaign. >> you and mike and i and i think al had this conversation last time. i think he needs to be who else. this blue jeans i'm everybody's buddy, i'm going to be just like you working class, blue collar

i'm like you and will try to be like you is a wrong thing. peace got a problem with authenticity. he ought to get out blue jeans and be the business manager he is, he all to stand up and say that's who i am. i'm here to reorganize the country, reorganize the government just like i did at bain, just like i did the olympics. i'm a business guy. >> he has to start saying obama may be our national therapist in chief and makes us feel good. i'm the results guy i'm the coach and i cut the slope players. >> rose: he had some -- >> hey charlie. >> rose: yes, jeannie. >> charlie, one of the big challenges they face is the flip flop narrative that romney now has attached to his candidacy. so any kind of change they want to make right now is a very dangerous thing to do because it could add to that narrative in such a negative way at a point where yes he's not doing well but at least he's ahead. i think what matt suggests is interesting but a total change in this tor this sort of appearf

the campaign is only going to draw more accusations that he will do anything to get elected. >> rose: but the alternative to that -- >> restyling his hair and his suit. >> rose: the alternative is to lift to the nomination. >> i'm not as worried about that. that's an inside cd thing. if he flip flops and make sense in being authentic that will stick. so he's got to find the real voice. >> rose: do you know, does anybody know where his real voice is. >> i know him i ran his campaign as governor for massachusetts. i think he would be a great president. he is a very smart, ry ethical, and very good decision-making. not afraid to make unpopular decisions. the question is can that candidate take the wrist of offending some voters and stawmg the sales -- stopping the salesmen and be the guy to delivers results and tells you the truth. it's risky, voters don't always like it but he's trapped in a bad feedback. >> rose: did he get there because he got bad advice or because he wasn't the person

that you -- >> i don't know. >> rose: -- advise when he ran foo governor. >> part of it i feel sorry for him because he's trapped in a bad primary environment right now. we've got republican primary voters. he's got a dog food problem which is he's got the best hand, the best truck endorsed by lassie, dogs sniff it, half don't want to eat it. the problem is the dogs the dogs really like is nothing in the general election. the general election dogs run away from that. so romney, the technocrat fixer guy has surrounded himself with this kind of salesmanship is authentic appearing anyway and he's not connecting with the part of the republican party it's hard for a go like that to connect to. >> charlie, let me -- >> rose: yes. >> no. i want to just, i agree with what mike and jean said earlier. he's caught in a squeeze right now. he's not solidified that base. self style conservative, they all have greater skepticism about governor romney. he can't ignore them.

at the same time he really has just, he's gone downhill and appeal to independence and to try to do both at the same time is even a two-stistep that mitt romney can't perform. and much less reach out to cutting some of that obama strike. there was a poll awe lung latinos that showed barack obama beating mitt romney 17-14. that affects a number of states if that's not changed. >> i think, you know, i think this is a great conversation but i think that what they're going to do is going to continue to do what they're doing. they're going to think lins, they're going to wake up tomorrow and put all the little numbers on a yellow piece of paper and they'll have 200 more delegates and project out even under worst case scenario they'll end up with a total we need and if they do anything it will upset that, the narrative wile fix that by we're into this little numbers game. that's what they're going to do. mitt romney and i like mitt romney, i've talked a number of

times is risk averse in this economy. the fact they wouldn't even give rick santorum a delegate in michigan, that they were down to that level of sort of bitterness that sort of a guy that they knew they were going to have to bring in the talent at some point and do that. i don't think they're going to do any of this. they're going to continue to do this incremental war and put themselves at a huge disadvantage in the fall. >> the hard thing in any organization in trouble particularly campaigns big campaigns is making fundamental challenges. it's a lot easy to go into the room and some direct mail guy comes up and says hey we got a new glo in the dark for alabama. the apple guys found it santorum was mean to his cat whatever it is and you get on to the tactics of every day process because it's hard to do the big fix and that's where the gravity will be. >> there's also this question, al. suppose santorum who got caught up in social issues and some said that hurt him. if he had stuck to economic issues, would he be rather than tied ahead in ohio tonight if he

run a better campaign that hammered at economic issues and spoke to the blue color voters in ohio? >> that's my view, charlie. i can't prove it but i think if he had done that he might have won wish and he would have certainly won ohio. he still may win ohio. but rick santorum is a guy. he's on a mission. this is the real rick santorum, i think. and so i don't think he can change. and he probably sits back tonight and says my gosh it's working. i was a nobody three months ago. and now i'm, you know, going head to head with a front runner. i won probably three contests tonight and i don't think you'll see any change. i don't think there's any incentive for rick santorum to get out of this race. he surely hopes the sugar daddies keep forking over money but he lived off the land for a long time and i don't think, rick santorum's going to be around for at least a couple more months. i would guess gingrich too though he's less predictable. >> i want to echo that.

the nature of romney's opponents is yet another challenge for him as he goes forward because as al said, santorum not only doesn't have a reason to leave because he's winning so certainly he can say i should stay in the race. but he also has no intention of leaving. i mean, he's got an agenda here that he wants to keep on the national stage. and then you look at gingrich and this is his last opportunity to be on the national stage. so he has zero incentive to walk away from this when there's ever a chance he might even win one more state. so it's an especially challenging environment for romney. no one will go away. >> something about rick santorum i have to give him some credit he's made some bad campaign decisions. but think about this guy. this guy has won in the mid west, he's now won in the south and he's won in the west. he's done what no one in the

other candidates have really done. he's won in every region of the country. he's won amongst every single demographic group so far in the republican primary. you have to get even though he got outspent in ohio, this guy's putting together a geographical coalition. >> rose: suppose he wins use and santorum wins ohio and suppose -- it could happen. unlikely to happen gingrich would drop out. but suppose -- >> i think that's a very good question because i think in the next 72 hours in the inside world of the republican leadership two big thing is going to happen. there's going to be tremendous pressure from the movement conservative establishment, and there is one. most of it based ironically in dc. to push newt out. now he may not listen to anybody but he won his home state, who cares. it's not a factor anywhere else other than cutting into some vote for santorum. the second thing is the party -- >> rose: is there anything they could do to get him to get out. >> ultimately he controls himself. there's someone in layings, he can pull the plug.

the biggest thing is the jebreal jebreal -- jeb bushes -- the big stakes of general elections they're worried about mitt but looking at santorum. will they act. it may not be enough but you may see those people pop out publicly from mitt pretty soon because the stakes are high. >> can i ask something, charlie. >> rose: please, al. add something. >> i think mike is right and i don't think that's going to affect voters anywhere however. i don't think they're waiting for instructions. one interesting tidbit and what otherwise was a very good night for rick santorum. he would clearly be the winner in ohio but the one reason, he lost the catholic vote out there by 13 points. over one third of ohio voters were a catholics and he got clubbered by the mormon mitt mitt. himitt -- mitt romney. he doesn't appeal to more modern or mainstream catholics. he's not a strong catholic which

is a real irony. >> one foot knot takin footnotei think you know because i saw those same numbers. i saw romney winning catholics. i even tweeted i thought okay use's going to go for romney. now we know we're about half way through the vote the commit polls have been pulled back until we wait to see what happens. >> you may be right mike. >> this is a guarantee on this. rick santorum is in this race until june. after tonight rick santorum is in this race and he's guess to be trouble for mitt romney all along the waive. i think mitt romney is going to be likely may likely to be the numb knee. >> rose: he's that confident is what you're saying. >> does he get to 1144 by the end of the plierms or does he -- primaries or get a pile on by the super delegates. he may get there. these going to happen to mitt romney but this is going to go all the way until june. that's why he's not going to change his strategy.

>> rose: iity romney's strategy saying look. i see the democrats -- republicans are saying on the romney camp are saying the democrats went all the way to june before they knew what the nominee was going to be. look what happened it didn't hurt him a built. >> the question is less will mitt romney be the nominee but what prois will he pay in money dispiem to get there. how many million men does he have to lose in this battle because you got obama waiting for him. >> and the difference. let me tell you the big difference in 2008. 8% of the adds that wer ads wer. mitt romney has gone up 20 points. barack obama's favorable numbers during the problem were up 20points. barack obama in june before he got into the general election, mitt romney unfavorable's in the 50's. that's huge. >> charlie just a couple of quick points. if we are going to look again as we are back at 2008, the other thing to keep in mind is that

what happened in 2008 is that the candidates that capturedded activist base of the democrat party was the one who mustled through to the -- muscled through to the end and won. if there's a paralegal here that's rick is a santorum not mt romney. romney was at 30% in june. maybe he's pushed his way opposition months later to 40 but he's still, it's pretty evident if gingrich did drop out that santorum would be beating him in a lot of other places. and so it's almost as though the republicans got what they hoped for but they didn't know, you have to be careful what they were hoping for. because the candidate that is winning is the one that has captured the base. >> rose: is there anything santorum could say to gingrich to get him out of the race. >> newtland has its own gravity. so unless he can talk him

into -- >> i don't think so. but newt's going to have, psychologists will be write big this for years. a great struggle between his own need to be in the spotlight and run and his own interest in hurting romney by helping santorum. so we've got a little shakespearean drama unfolding here. >> rose: he could in order to hurt romney say i will give up my ambition temporarilyn't though i'm a great man and do what's good for the country. >> and rush to santorum. >> i think it may go the other way, charlie. >> rose: in what way. >> i think newt views himself as an historic figure he always has. i think he's very calculating and i don't think he's a movement conservative at all. he may well at some point not soon in the next week or two may calculate that hey -- i think he's given up the idea of being romney's running mate but i'm sure in his mind he could be romney's secretary of state. and anything he could to make him more than a star figure he would do. >> newt gingrich has been

campaigning in the state of denial for a month. he's going to keep campaigning in denial. >> he did go to romney i think his relatively small vote will go to santorum or better. i'm not sure he could deliver much. >> rose: endorsement would hurt romney as much as would benefit santorum because the voters might go for him. al just said that's true. >> i think newt gingrich is going to stick around. look at his numbers that he got in oak and tennessee. he's dropping. some people are going to say this is a two-person race. nooft annuity inewt gingrich ise have to choose between mitt romney and rick santorum. that's what's going to happen 123450eu6789 when yo.>> rose: e general election, is it possible that no matter what you can reconfigure yourself with a great convention so that all that we're saying now about the possibilities of mitt romney not being able to connect within his

own party can be healed at a national convention that gets him a great send off. >> well, in 2008 -- >> rose: because you never know what's going to happen. >> i believe it's true but you want a campaign where you don't rea lirely only on that. 2008 for i don't know independen -- for obama, 20120 1 for the howks. howks -- howks. five months ago obama was dead with independent voters. the problem is the information they're getting root now. the campaign force is being put upon them. the side effect of the republican primary is not being helpful. you remember on the sideline you have obama with tremendous money, a savvy team with their plaque on the wall is remember the lesson where your opponent's drowng you throw them a fire hose. they have asked 100 million in negative advertising ready to go. that's why this primary thing is going to drain money and resources that probably romney will need and this damage could be hard to undo.

>> i think this general election keep in mind what we've seen, barack obama takes out yes ma bi --takes out yes bin laden. obama is adding -- he has the republican primary in disarray. barack obama is dead even in the jebreal election. it's a great six months and he's still dead in this general election. in 1992 bill clinton was third in may of 1992 behind ross perot and george w. bush. this race will get to the summer. he will be damaged, mitt romney will be damaged. if he's a good politician and puts together a good convention this race is within three or four points no matter what. we're just in that environment. >> rose: look at the exam -- >> carly let me jump in. i slightly disagree with matthew in the sense i don't think it's even. i think obama's got a clear advantage when you look at key states it's changed a lot in the last month. however let me say this. talking to people who have been with obama, he is programly can

dented whether he's talking to the new york town or down here boarding on caul cocky. >> i think he's way across the border. >> you want this economy stall. let there be a war in iran and oil prices soar and "all bets are off." >> rose: what is defining the republican race. >> mitt romney is defined in the are race because this entire year has been about mitt romney and his little share or 70% or 75% of the republic voters say we don't want to vote for mitt romney. they settled on her man cane and michele bachmann they settled on rick santorum. not in love with any of those candidates but looking at the alternative. that's been the dynamic the mitt romney versus not the mitt romney. mitt romney is the pivot point in this race. those who think we've got to nominate and a whole bunch of voters who don't want to nominate him. >> he does pretty well but with other guys on the ballot becomes

essentially a two-way race. almost anybody in this case santorum who has the extra benefit of that social conservative authenticity big faction in the party does well. romney has -- >> charlie one of the things that does nottity fine thi doese is economic plan. every day these guys are talking about is mitt romney authentic or social issues or whatever is the day obama wins. this was supposed to be a primary that was going to be defined by the republican alternative to obama on how they're going to repair the economy. now, romney to his credit is among those who has tried to rea main really displupped an discio talk about jobs and the economy out there on the trail. but this primary has been defined by anything but that. and that isn't a good thing for the republican party or the nominee. because it's not going to be the way the voters remember it as we move forward. >> part of the problem if the

romney people had somebody here they would say we can talk about our 59 point economic plan every day. we just get horse race coverage. we say rick santorum gets army boots we get coverage. one of the problems they've had is they use it as a tax surrogate which is herring mitt. when we cover politics like sports that's one of the ways you get coverage. the boarding economic plans don't get coverage. instead we get experts saying his economic plan -- >> rose: what can he do and you guys say he has to change his image. you talked about authenticity. we always come back to authenticity and narrative, do we not? >> absolutely. >> rose: they are decided most of the time. obama was influence by the time made the speech that helped me get the nominations and defined who he was in a race which the democrat party wanted to go to somebody. >> in this selection environment charlie for the past couple collections, people are so tired of the sort of sales job they're getting the political stuff they get all of the stuff out of

washington they wanted somebody authentic. they voted for george w. bush even though they disagreed with the number of issues. he was in bad war the economy wasn't great but i at least trust him and in the even they voted against the flip flopper from know massachusetts. it's the republican version of john carrjohn kerry. he sort of stuck to the business guy it's been authenticity. every day he doesn't fix that problem is a bad day. >> rose: suppose -- >> charlie can i just add one thing about what's different this year. the republican based and the republican electorate is different. i ran into general eisenhower's granddaughter the other night. we're talki i said ronald reagan would be the liberal in this race today if he were around and your grandfather would be the marxist . it really is this party is moving very very far right.

>> how do you feel about that crazy monument they want to built. that's another topic. >> i'm with susan and david. >> me too. if he goes with the tougher message do you know what he needs and this sounds -- he needs the base. you need a camera, microphone and audience to be mitt unplugged and go and show this new guy. >> rose: mitt unplugged, do you think they'll do that. >> i think what they're doing is having meetings with phone calls and trying to get people to own doris him. they start spinning that it doesn't matter even if we lose everything in alabama with only 25 delegates. >> they're going to send out spread sheets 20 times a day. >> rose: suppose this scenario. i want you to project way ahead. suppose romney is the nominee and suppose he loses to obama. what is the question that the republican party will be asking after november? >> the hilarious irony is that rush limbaugh and some radio man

man -- saying this is what it's like. >> if mitt romney loses this election when all these republicans from the last four years thought barack obama's ripe for the picking mitt romney gets nominated he loses in the general election is going to be a blood letting. >> it should be. >> rose: al? republican party will be blood letting. >> yes, i think if you want a catharsis in the republican party you would probably hope for rick santorum to get the nomination and lose and then there might be a more introspection. if romney loses this election as the nominee it will be exactly what mike and matthew just said. you got to return to our right wing roots. >> there's a lot of energy in the party. >> i'll add mine, charlie. >> rose: what? >> i'll add mine. >> rose: yes, please. >> first in line for the night fight is whoever rewrote the rules for the nomination fight. i think that the party's going

to -- >> a lot of energy in the primary though and it's legitimate in democracy. let's get a movement conservative we believe in and litigate our issues in front of the country. do you know what. i'm a pragmatist republican i want to win but if that's what the primary really wants let them and we'll see what happens. >> rose: i would like to see that. i don't the that the republican party can win and i would like to see us get, go through the kind of cause thawr sist we need to go -- cause thawr sis cause - >> i understand the party to go out and run an selection. what will happen is we learn a tough lesson about demographics. >> rose: what's the debate that santorum, what would be the debate would tapes if santorum is the nominee and santorum loses? >> it would be why are we litigating social issues in the america of today. >> rose: do not want to hear it, is that right.

>> want to go become to fiscal conservatives and we want to become the party of fiscal conservatism. that's what they would do. that's not going to happen. rick santorum will not be the nominee and the scenario we roll out, it's going to be -- >> rose: say a moderate once more lost the republican party. where is our recalled reagan. >> if i had, if you had a competent populous republican who didn't veer off into the socialist, you need to be on the social issues to win this numb face. you need to be a competent populous republican that runs against washington. if you were that, you would have locked this nomination down by now. rick perry was 20 points up but because he wasn't economy he died. >> a foreign opportunity republican a jeb bush. romney has been caught because they've used him as a negative with the president who has some affect is not having that message. he can still recapture it later but you got to have some sugar in the equation. >> rose: the how can

establishment, hall. >> they are a quasi nervous break down after seeing tonight's tonight. if jeb bush's name jeb elf else he would be the next president of the united states. >> rose: what makes him so attractive that he would be the nominee if he was not, bush was not his last name. >> because mike and matthew just described. >> he would have run in this environment. a popular governor of florida not named bush. republican would have run and would have won likely if they were economy. to me where is the republican establishment. it's the dean warner of animal house. they lost control. the frat house is running the joint. people are throwing food in the cafeteria and they don't know what to do anymore. that's where the republican establishment is.

>> rose: suppose washington is -- >> what they're doing is we better call the chinese. [laughter] >> these guys are -- >> rose: capitalism. >> people asked me why, what would you do about -- i answered with a joke is i turn it over to the government of singapore for a year. >> rose: we would have clean streets and clean elevators would we not. >> we would have a better balanced budget and a strong currency. >> rose: social media jeannie has that made any difference at all, the much praised social media that was so effective for barack obama? >> i think when you look at ron paul's campaign, they use social media pretty effectively. and you got to wonder about santorum. he's got really no money and no organization but somehow they're getting their little act together and not to go up against the big machine. that's not bad. >> rose: jeannie with

bloomberg news, mike murphy -- matt dowd bloomberg news. coming up next a conversation with jason kilar. of hulu.ceo see you tomorrow. >> rose: jason kilar here is the ceo of hulu on-line video service that offers the selection of hip shows clips and movie. he joined hulu in 2007 after nearly a decade of executive at amazon. he led the company to be the leading premium on-line video. has 30 million unique monthly users and over 1,000 advertisers. i'm pleased to have him back at this table in full disclosure. our program is on hulu as is many and most other programs like this. so i say welcome to you and good to see you again. >> thank you very much charlie. >> rose: what is it that you think has provided you most of all as a quality the ability to

achieve some of your goals. >> i think it's not dissimilar from the examples you mentioned. i think it does come back to focus. for us hulu has always been and always will be about premium content. so that focus and not getting distracted by a lot of other things that are interesting but not us i think has been one of the most important things in terms of our journey. >> rose: you have also suggested there's a tectonic shift about to take place. what is that. >> i just think that to me it's very similar to the invention of television lurll literally in te 1940's where you had movie houses and robust movie industry and the television got invented. and initially the television was seen as the devil incarnate by people that worked in the content industry. over time it turned out that was one of the best things that could ever happen to a content creator. i think the internet is no different. in fact i think the internet is going to have a bigger impact on content creators than television

ever had believe it or not. the reason why that's a case you're able to tell stories 24/7 in the home out of the home in every room of the home and television screen can be in your pocket through a smart phone. and so i think that's the biggest shift that's coming in our lifetime in media. >> rose: is there a moment which crosses into that. is there something waiting to happen so that you can say this tectonic shift has occurred. >> i think it's a graduate thing. it's one of those things where you go from the start of it is where there's a lot of confusion and uncertainty and anxiety among the incumbent folks at work in the industry and you know you're there when everyone in the industry is looking at it as a positive. and so we're not there yet. clearly that is a journey and a transition but i think it's fair to say that we're snack dab in the middle of people's eyes being open to just what an amazing opportunity is in terms of the internet. >> rose: it is said that steve jobs was working on television that was one of the unfinished job he was focusing

on. do we have any idea to what he hoped to accomplish. >> i have no idea. obviously you have to ask the folks at apple. if i were to surmise i think he probably wants to do or did want to do to the television what he's done to other devices which is to ultimately make them simple and make them delightful in terms of being innovative and intuitive. if there is such a thing as a apple tv i think that's what it will be. >> rose: where are with a in terms of paid tv. >> we are in the paid tv industry today is a very healthy business and in a great position. >> rose: define what we mean by paid tv. >> the way i think of paid tv is different way that you pay to get a group of programs. >> rose: you pay for netflix and hbo, you pay for voodoo and all those streaming services. >> yes. and you pay for hulu plus, cable services. and really the only thing that differentiates all the services is what you get in return for a given price. and so there's the big bundle where you pay about $85 and get

hundreds of television channels, primarily in the living room and there are other services where you pay seven or eight or $9 and you get another subset of programming. so that entire industry i think is a very very healthy one and is going to be very healthy for a long time. >> and it will be really healthy for the people who provide content because it will be a competition for their content. >> it's a great time to be a content creator. >> rose: that's what you're doing becoming not only a distribute but content creator. >> just a couple weeks ago we had our first series called battle ground. we're so proud of the team behind that and the people we get to work with to create such a series. we did it for two reasons. one is we thought it was a story that needed to be told. it was a great story by j.d. walsh and his tame and we thought it would be a great difference shaition for something like hulu. in terms of licensing and distributing content that's being shown in other places we'll also have hulu original series as well. >> rose: what decides where people go to get this on-line

content. >> i think ultimately it's ease of use and value. at the end of the day it's value which stles this equation of people think about in their heads and in their hearts and it's a function of a lot of different things which is how easy is it to use, is it well designed, is the price right. do i have affinity for the brand. and these are all thing that the hulu team sweats over every day in terms of is hour search engine latency. do we aggregate hundreds and hundreds of content providers. there are things that ultimately go into the value equation. when we enthuse about hulu and hulu plus are we delivering great value every day. >> rose: that's kind of a lesson you would learn from -- >> it is. we're a product of experience and there's no doubt i'm a product of my experiences at amazon. >> rose: tell pea how social media plays a role in this because everybody sees social media not only to link up but also to feedback. >> i think it's going to be two things and the hulu team is very excited about this.

there's two main ways we think about it which is there is distribution. social distribution which is consuming things on a service like hulu or hulu plus and then allowing your friends to be able to discover through your activity. that's going to be very interesting because at the end of the day if you think about what people do in the real world they're heavily influence by what their friends suggest is interesting and good like hey i think you should check out this movie or this tv show or this product or pair of jeans and being able to socially share content that way i think is a very very interesting thing. the other thing that i think is going to be very interesting is this notion of socially participating in the content itself so annotating it so that in many ways i think television content and film content is going to be like a textbook used by the smartest kids that college class where they annotate it and highlight things. you would rather buy the used textbook than the pristine textbook without liner notes. you'll see television and movies get more valuable over time because of the great collective

intelligence that gets annotated on top of it. >> rose: you take advantage of the group intelligence. >> yes, exactly. i get so excited about because think about it, his tore clear when people would go and watch a great television show like a sit call the next day think talk to their friends about it and that experience will go on in a very positive way. imagine if you could have that happen literally watching the show and immediately after the show. you haven't seen it yet on-line but you're going to sate. >> rose: how will the winners be determined. >> it will be who deliver the most value for consumers. by way there are going to be a number of wishes. this is an immense industry. >> rose: how do you measure it. how immembers is it. >> what people spend their time on this plant other doing. the worse fun is sleep.

then work. >> rose: so sight, sound -- >> it's four to five hours a day is what americans spend consuming video. so this is a big deal this is a very important way that people spend their time their leash time and i think when you talk about markets that are that large in the global, they're going to attract a lot of folks. i think there are going to be a lot of winners. to your question it's going to come down to who delivers the most value in ways that are relevant to an individual. and that's what we focused on. >> rose: what's the lesson of net flick experience that read d has so publicly acknowledged. >> you should ask him. i have so much respect for reid. he's such a smart entrepreneur and he's focused and disciplined and i know him well. what i've read about his sort of thoughts on that process was i think that there was just sort of just a temporary moment where there was a lack of focus. and he's been very honest and humble about it which is to his credit but i to think the world

of that team and himself. >> thhimself. >> rose: the lesson is know your consumer. >> very much so. if you veer off that it's a bad road ahead. it really has to be maniacal focus on the consumer. >> rose: you have something -- >> it's something i'm a huge fan of because in the history of video advertising services in the last 60 years there's been one innovation. one major innovation which is the introduction of color. that was like the big innovation for a video ad service. we introduced this thing which i think rivals the inventiveness of color which is imagine you're watching 30 rock or you're watching television show and the ad comes on and you don't like it. with hulu you can actually click the button and trade out the ad. so first the first time ever consumers in control of their another experience related to television content. so for us, it's a big win because users are able to actually take control of what

they see in terms of advertisements and then advertisers win in a big way because it's more relevant. so if you're coca-cola you would much rather have those necks with diet cola see the diet coke commercial and those who like sugar beverages watch the coke commercial. >> rose: so the large role will be choice and personalization. >> absolutely. really the reason why those two things will be kind of major things that are said is because that ultimately serves the customer. again it all comes back to what's best for the customer. >> rose: where will subscription be in terms of all this. for a while everybody says you have a subscription that's one business model you have an advertising model that's another business model. there's some third model that may be a combination or something else. where do you see this emergence of subscription as an important part of the mix? >> there's no one size fits all. so i think that's the most important thing. any time someone suggests oh well it's all going to be this,

that's wrong because people are not paul the same. i hi subscription's going to be a very very important business model. we have that as a component to our business. we have an advertising component to our business. the reason why i say it's going to be a very important model is that it's simple. it's very simple for someone to know that if i may $8 a month and i can get unlimited access to this great body of content, that's simplifying and that's very empowering. >> rose: warren buffett plays on-line bridge every day. somebody has made it easy for him to play on-line bridge. when you think of him to be able to do that is worth untold amount of money. it's invaluable to him, $35 a month he gets to do what he loves to do. same thing if you're a sports fan you can spend an x number of thing or something plus and you can get every nba game you want to watch. >> exactly. and it's all, i love the times that we live in because through technology you're able to delete consumers in that way whether it's warren buffett and his bridge sum of subscription or

basketball junkies like myself with nba seasons past. it's wonderful that you can may and get great value in return. >> rose: i don't understand how you have time to watch all this basketball. >> i don't. i have four kids and i have a busy life in terms of my professional. >> rose: you just want to know if there's a big game you can tune in and see five minutes of it or see the last five minutes. >> i'm a huge caroline fan so it's a part of who i am. so there are certain things i place enormous value on. when i am able to get easier access to those things, i'm the most price insensitive customer you'll find. >> rose: do you think for someone like me is also how, i mean all these things that are now available to do with the aggregating for you. but still i'm not quite satisfied. it's still is not the ease of access is not there as much as i would like it to be. >> i agree with you. i think one of the sort of, it's the most frustrate is but also more interesting aspects of what the hulu team does which is we start in 2007 in world where

most content was license the thinking about a traditional analogue world. and it was art job to figure out how to help the industry transition to a digital one that's ultimately convenient for consumers. and you don't get it right in the first go but if you're persistent and focused and you have conviction in your beliefs in terms of the way this should be, it's getting better and better and better. when i look at our service today versus four years ago, it makes me smile because we're getting to that point where ultimately you're going to say this is the way it should have. >> rose: what do you think of this new development that barry diller has announced. >> it's fascinating. this is aero. >> rose: explain what it does. >> it has these tiny antennas. >> rose: the size of a quarter. >> about the size of a quarter. and it stakes free to air broadcast signals on a personal antenna and it offers them over the internet to consumers for a fee. i think $15 or $13 a month or something like that.

it's fascinating on an act demonstrate you can level because it's the definition of innovation and technology and disruption. i think there's a mine fold there for sure. >> rose: a legal mine field among other things. >> there's going to be a lot of -- >> rose: they would argue they vetted that before they did it. people who are in the business in the network business would argue that well they see nothing yet. >> for sure. but again as an observer of it i'm fatal naiftd because it just shows the relent list inventiveness over the world and that's what makes us better as a society just thinking the world could be better here and i'm just going to not stop. >> rose: we have been prisoner in the most of cable and digital television. >> historically it's interesting. it started with terrestial table and now satellite and now telephone companies delivering over fiber. with the internet there's the introduction of another distribution means that is obviously has whole lot of benefits.

and so that's why i mentioned earlier there are just great times because the consumers has never seen such progress in media thanks to technology. historically there's only been one or two dominant forms and there's this big thing called the internet. >> rose: what the break through to watch the people on the internet and not watch them on their television as we know it. what has to happen before they make that transition. >> well one was over the last five years was technology which is broad band fend o penetratio. the other thing which people don't write about or talk about soasms the business situation which is you have toed this in a way that absolutely serves the needs of content owner because content owners they're very brave souls. they invest $40 million a year every year and investing and creating new movies, television series and they are responsible for making a return on that $40 million. and that's a, you talk about a

high anxiety job, that's a high anxiety job so as distributors we need to think responsibly about how we can help content creators make a fair return on that $40 million investment. >> rose: it is made assumption, and you can tell me how wrong i am, that if you can create interesting product and quality content, people are willing to pay for it one way or the other. >> absolutely. >> rose: there's not this how much of sowch ho search how do t everything cheap and free. they're willing to pay for it. the life we live today the opportunity to see a movie wherever you want to see it is something that you treasure and cherish. >> yes. >> rose: what's wrong with that idea. >> there's nothing wrong with that idea in the same way warren bowebowfltbowflbowfltbuttate, wo

users but fair return for -- >> rose: put on your candid hat and tell me what's the threat to your business, you, hulu. >> there are so many threats. >> rose: tell me what you worry about. >> i murray most abou maria wors a team. when we start we got hulu going together both nbc universal and news corporation and disney as well. what the theme and board did together was to think what's the ideal culture for this next generation technology and media company. that's a very precarious fragile thing, cultures and i worry most every day and every night which is are we staying true to our culture because it's a very demanding one. >> rose: how do you define your culture. >> it starts with the customer and it's measured by having unreasonably high levels of quality. we sweat over things that most normal people would think we're nuts to sweat over in terms of the design. >> rose: do you say the

culture at amazon is different from the culture at google is different from the culture at falls book. >book -- facebook. >> i know it is. the culture is very very different at those companies. >> rose: how do you define the culture at amazon that you know about and google. >> i think at amazon the culture jeff has define and done an unbelievable job first and foremost is about the customer no matter what. start with the customer and work backwards. google from afar is my read is it's much more developer centric which has done amaze things for them. you look at the franchise they've created. and i don't have as good a read on facebook other than i think mark has done an unbelievably good job about the hacker mentality and i mean that as a complement. think about what needs to be done and just do it. that is unbelieve tblea valuable and that's one the on reasons facebook is today. those three companies have very different cultures. >> rose: what does it mean to

have a billion users? >> that's a large number of people. i think when you, at that moment. >> rose: it's a big country, isn't. >> it's a big number. i think i can tell you what it means from an advertising service perspective which ultimately facebook is, which is it allows you to have the potential to talk to a lot of people at once. >> rose: especially when you know a lot about them. >> exactly. it's hard by the way to deliver highly effective advertising services. it's very few people have done it. but to have a billion users ultimately in the journey, that would be a very valuable thing. >> rose: great to he saw again. >> it's great to see you charlie. thank you for having a me. >> rose: vawk fo thank you for joining us. we'll see you next time.

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