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>> rose: welcome to our program. tonight we look at important cultural institutions and their important exhi businesses. we start with islamic art at the metropolitan museum and sheila canby 1/2 ina haidar. >> i think the story is the story of the formation of islamic art up to the year

1900 in its diverse manifestations in different regions. its connections with the arts of other places such as china or europe. and it's a story that is not a political story. it's a story about art and about cultural history. >> you know, they have their own personality, they speak for themselves. they can't be force oed, necessarily, into one interpretation or another. and it's always better and in this case it is much better to be able to give this wide canvas where you can learn all about islam, the store eve islam, the unfolding islamic history and civilization over a wide region. >> rose: we continue by looking at cultural institutions for the performing art its that take note of sight and sound. we look at the questions victoria newhouse, renee fleming, daniel libeskind and michael kaiser.

>> now the transparency is extraordinary, that is a buzzword in that kind of architecture today is transparency. you can look into the lobbiment you can go into the lobby and have a coffee before the concert or after or whatever. and also, meshing the whole center in with the life of the city. i moan this whole idea of the performing arts being sacrosanct and having to be removed like a temp el on a podium is totally passe. >> rose: cultural institutions and the life inside when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following:

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. . >> rose: the metropolitan museum of art holds one of the world's most expansive and impressive collections

of islamic art. the objects span 13 centuries of islamic civilization that stretch across the middle east, north africa, europe and south asia. in 2003 the galleries closed for renovation, over the course of eight years they were reimagined, restructured and expanded. they reopen to the public in the fall of 2011. they have been renamed the new galleries for the art of the arab lands turkey, iran, central asia and later south asia. "new york times" art critic holland carter has said an immense cultural vista, necessary liberating intoxicatingly pleasurable has been restored. joining me are two curators from the museum, sheila canby, and a halfina-- navina haidar is the coordinator of the new gallery. i'm pleased to have both of them at this table for this monumental achievement of bringing this back. first the title. why that? >> the title really reflects our desire to introduce a strong sense of geography, a

geographical understanding and locating these great, diverse tradition in these many parts of asia, north africa and even parts of europe. and so the term islamic art doesn't really locate you in a place. and giving the sense of geographic span was very important to us. it also is in keeping with the way the rest of the museum is organized. and while we of course convey the binding thread of islam and the connections, the cultural connections that have brought these worlds together, which is, you know, the sort of-- we do that as part of a, you know, within the context of this geographical regional move sits. >> rose: awe new, this was closed what 2003. >> 3, right. >> rose: because? >> because the renovation of the greek and roman galleries below was beginning. and the vibration, noise and construction of those galleries meant that the galleries above had to close

for the safety of the objects. and there were also offices and storage spaces that closed and moved as well. and that gave the department the opportunity to rethink and plan all new galleries. the unfortunate thing is, of course, the met hats a big, long-range plan and who knew that this decade would be such an important decade, actually, for people to learn about the religion of islam, the art of the islamic world and the cultural and history. so that was unfortunate but on the other hand, we hope we will-- we've made up for it we have had 380,000 visitors in four and a half months. >> rose: forgive me, because you uniquely understand this. you came here to do this from london. >> well, i mean, i am an american by birth. >> rose: right, but you were work. >> i spent 20 years living in london. and mostly working at the

british museum. and they have a fantastic collection. but in this country, the metropolitan museum's collection is the most comprehensive collection of islamic art. and really in the americas, the most comprehensive collection. and we can tell the story, because of the space and because of the collection, i think, better than any museum. and that's what drew me here. >> rose: and what story is it you want to tell? >> i think the story is the story of the formation of islamic art up to the year 1900 in its diverse manifestations in different regions, its connections with the arts of other places such as china or europe. and it's a story that is not a political story. it's a story about art and

about cultural history. >> rose: when she came you had been working on -- >> yes, i had been in the department for several years before sheila joined us. and we in the department, me and all the other colleagues that have been well entrench mood this project, because we shut the old galleries down in 2003. so many, now over such long projects continued to have people coming and going because all sorts of circumstances bring them in and out. so we've had the contributions of many people flew through the years. and so i guess i'm just making the point that it's very much a team effort, when sheila joined us t was already sort of rich with many contributions of many people. she was the icing on our cake. >> rose: probably both is there something other than than what we have already spoke own to that unifies this presentation? >> well, what we have been trying to do in once sense is to locate the works of

art in the story of islam that sheila has said, but also to, by bringing about an emphasis on the regional diversity of these, you know, arts, the art centers, we've also been able to locate the objects and the long continuities of each region. and so this is a slightly new way if you like of looking at all of this material which is neither, you know, it's a more natural way in i one encounters works of art. works of art, you know, they have their own personality, they speak for themselves. they can't be forced, necessarily, into one interpretation or another. and it's always better and in this case we felt it was much better to be able to give this wide canvas where you can learn all about islam, the story of islam, the unfolding of islamic history and civilization over a wide region. and at the same time through the works of art being in sort of regional groups as well, you get a sense of the

great continuities of each region and the fact that islam came and interacted with long-standing traditions creating new expressions and new exchanges. so it's a kind of, you know, sort of, i guess it's more challenging in some ways, but also more stimulating and more natural. i think i've been told by most of the people who come to visit that it's the way they feel, there is's great embrace, a sense of embrace in the spaces and the way the objects have been laid out and interpreted. >> let's show you some of the objects. let's look at the first image and have you describe what we are going to see, both of you describe what we are going to see. this first one is the folio from the blue koran. >> the blue koran is called that because of the color of its parchment that it's written on. it's written in gold on blue dyed parchment. that being the skin of sheep or goats. and until about the 10th century, almost all korans were written on parchment.

this is almost unique in the history of early korans because of this combination of gold writing and blue ground. it was made we think in tunesia in the 10th century. and it's a disperse page there probably were 30 volumes from the koran that this came from. that have been mostly dispersed since who knows when. i think there's one complete volume in tunesia, still. and you see that the letters are there but you don't see the dots above and below the line. people have hypothesized that this is because people who owned these korans actually new the koran by heart. so these letter forms are kind of aid memoir, they are helping people, prompting them but they don't need to have every single word spelled out with all the

vowells and everything. which the dots and lines above and below the lines. >> rose: okay, the second image incense burn certificate from eastern iran, what, around 1181 or 82. describe this to me. >> well, this is one of the favorite objects of our young visitor because it is a feline, almost a cat, that is how the youngsters see t but it an extraordinary object because it is quite large, it is a monumental incense burner. its head actually screws off and its body is hollow on the inside. and originally they would have filled it with charcoal and incense. and the incense would have been released through all the little holes all over the body. so it would have been an extraordinary piece, this lively face coming out from the fragrant smoke and quite a conversation piece in the late 12th century f you like. we don't know the exact context in which this would have been used, but probably a nobelman's house or royal house. it's an example of the kind

of lively figureal tradition that existed in this period and also it's very interesting for its typeography, there is information about its maker and the date of its production on the writing that is all over the body. and that's quite typical because calligraphy, of course, plays a very important role in all kinds of objects in the islamic world and is, in fact, a great tradition of islamic art and you see it here in this extraordinary three dimensional figure ral work. >> rose: the next one we will look at is the brazier, here it is, look at this. >> okay, so that is probably made in egypt or syria. and you can see that it's brass inland -- inlaid with silver. it is the, you know, top of the line weber grill of its day. the kebo b's were being made for the king of yemen who had ordered this. and he was a great patron of

metal work made in egypt in the 13th and 14th century. so this dynasty have their little emblem which is a five pedaled rosset on the four corners of this piece. and then you see there are dragons, confronted dragons up above and then there would have been the stick or whatever that you put the kebo b's on and there would have been some kind of basin for coals. but that's gone so this is a pretty wonderful object for your-- . >> rose: from the second half of the 13th century. okay. the next is a mirab, this is from iran in about 1354, this is extraordinary to me. >> yes, this is a very famous object in our collection. it's actually comes from the interior of a mosque and-- would have given its indication. >> a prayer niche, known as a marab and is a feature you find in many, in almost all

mosques, it is basically an indentation, a decorated niche in the wall that indicates the direction of mecca for the faithful. so such nichees became the no focus of decorations in many different styles and many different places. and in this one which comes from iran from the 14th century, mid 14th century is particularly lavishly decorated with this wonderful vocabulary of blue and white glazed styles, mo sassic tile, little pieces of tile that are cut into shapes and pieced together to create this kind of jigsaw puzzle of amazing decoration. there is also three types of calligraphy that you see on it. the koran, versus from the koran given on the outside in a style, then there's the inner band you see the woid band has what looks like little sort of repeating vertical line its, that is actually another style of arabic calligraphy and those give the sayings of the

prophet and right in the middle, you see a very lovely inscription that says that the mosque is the home of all pios people. >> rose: the next is a moroccan court recently built. >> yes, well this is something very new for us in our department. and went to morocco with a designer mike batista, found the family of craftsman in fez with whom the museum contracted. they came, i think there were 13 of them at the met for six months from december to june, making this onsite. so they shipped all their little tiny pieces of tile, and then they assembled the tile panels face down, they did it all by the shapes of the pieces, not by the colors. and then when that was all done then the whole group of

them attached them to the walls. they have sent bags and bags of plaster and so all the plaster work on the arches had to first be mixed and then applied, and then they had some citizens ils that they did a kind of rough cutting. and then they got out these tools that almost looked like ice picks, very fine tools. and then they started the really fine carving of the stucco and it is amazingly decorated. >> next is a signal horn from southern italy, 11th to the 13th century. look at that, wonderful stuff. >> well, that's covered with a whole variety of-- very interesting figures from harpies to griffins and really the decoration of this type of ivory that you find in southern italy, sicily is related to a kind of common language that was known in different aspects

of med evil europe including the islamic world as well as the nonislamic traditions. but basically this is one of the grand pieces that comes, that the museum has that shows the kind of exchanges between islamic and nonislamic traditions in southern italy in this period. >> rose: the next thing is a tugra. >> yes, the imperial sign of salomon the magnificent, the great ottoman ruler. and in this period in the 16th century, sort of extraordinary call graphic, which is the name of the title, and it's made in lapis and gold, primarily. and in that wonderful swirling knotted up calligraphy is a kind of illumination as well. the body of the calligraphy is filled with sort of swirling leaves. and those leaves are styled, very classic ottoman leaves

that you find all over ottoman art. so it's a sort of great voluptuous and highly expressive sort of, you know, production, typical of the period. and then you see these kinds of calligraphy motive its adapt-- a dopd by the ottoman rulers coinage and other places as well. >> rose: ed next thing is the reception room, damascus room. >> so this room is dated, this room was completely deconstructed when the galleries closed and conserved over many years by our wood conserve ters. and they discovered, realized that the panels were in the wrong order, and they found actually an original system of notching on the back of the panels. >> rose: how did they find the panels were in the wrong order. >> well, one real good clue was that the poetry which goes around it wasn't making much sense. >> rose: i see. >> and also we knew that the entrance actually was on the side and something-- so

anyway, this, in the process of restoring it, they went to damascus to find exactly what these rooms looked like and situ. and learned a great deal. and this would have faced on to a courtyard it would have been a winter reception room it has a combination of sort of gesso and guilding and painted designs, some of which are very european, some of which are very traditional arab. and then in the front, you don't see it but there is a fountain which actually is earlier than the room itself. probably from the man luke period from the 15th, 16th century. and some of the little pieces of stone that make the fountain are other conserve ters think actually are roman, reused. so it's a great attraction in these galleries. the public really loved this room. and so do we. >> why do you think that is. >> i think people are kur

yus about how people live. >> lived exactly. >> the next thing is the emer-- emperor's carpet, iran mid 16th century. >> well, this carpet was made probably around the middle of the 16th century, most likely for the shah of iran, shah tahmasp and it was one of a pair. its history is that it then later on was given by the later percent shahs to peter the great, the russian czar, who then gave it to leopold the 1s, the first happensburg emperor. there it was in vienna. after the first world war, by that time it had gone into a museum. they decided to sell this. they have the other one from the pair. they sold this. and it took from about 1920-- 1923 or so until about 1943 for it to come to the museum. and when it came-- . >> rose: where was it in that period. >> in private hands. i think theres with a rock feller who owned it in there but other people too. in any event, when it got to

the met it had so many patches on the back it was in such terrible condition, that in all the years from 1943 until now, it's only been shown twice. and in the three years before that we opened the galleries, there was a team of conserve terse down in the bowels of the museum rolling out inch by inch, working on this to consolidate it so it could be shown. and finally the day came and they rolled it out, and it was stunning. and then it has poetry written around, you see it's got all these fantastic and real animals, combatting, frolicking or whatever through the nowers. and in that yellow strip around, an even to have the yellow is very rare. you don't usually-- it usually erodes there is poetry that describes this, well, it's poetry about sitting in a beautiful spring meadow and how the

pedals of the roses are like the cheek of the beloved. and it's the most romantic thing and you can just imagine sitting on this wonderful silk wool beautiful soft carpet, just managing yourself in the middle of a springtime flowering meadow. >> are you in love with this piece. >> i love it, i do. >> rose: art, the next is the lovers. >> this is a painting by the leading artist at the court of shah-- the great is one of the most famous of percent kings, the beautiful buildings people think of, the beautiful tiled buildings are ones he commissioned, for the most part. this artist, as you can see, is depicting a couple having intimate, well, starting to have intimate relations. and i think this always

surprises people because they think some how that in the islamic world, you know, there's no sex. well, obviously that's not right. and he really represented the people who lived there, sort of there was a kind of gilded youth in the early 17th century. europeans were beginning to come, trade was, the external world was picking up amount ofnd was in a pictorial way chronicling this. and so we get a painting like this, which is extremely rhythmic and really focusing on the individuals, even though as portraits we wouldn't see them that way because they're very idealized in their faces. we don't know exactly who they are. get the does get the d across. >> the next thing is the study of a blue bull. this is in 1589, to 1626,

the blue bull. >> he doesn't look blue in this painting but in fact when you see the animal, 58's got this sort of bluish, this gray, in reality, which has a ting of sort of smoky blue about it and the name of this animal in india is n-e-i-l gui which means blue bull. this is very much a animal favorite 100ed by the mughal. sheila brought up the issue of the idealized figure in the iranian world. and extraordinary development in the mughal's sphere was the production of portrait ture based on observation. and this was portrait did ture not just of human beings but of individual animals. we believe this was an animal that might have roamed in the emperor's zoo logical gardens t is believed by scholars this is an individual animal because one of the horns is broken

and the master who created this was a great natural painter of great natural subjects. he was given the title of wonder of the age by the emperor. and you know, the museum is very lucky to have this and a few other paintings by this great master. when you look at it up close which you can do in the galleries, you see that the brush work is extraordinary and you sense, you see sort of textures from sort of boney nose to slightly furry tale. you sense, there is a sensoree response when you see the finest of the the brush work. >> next is a mango shaped flask. >> well, that's another, that's another work of art from the mughal period, the same period. >> rose: india made 17th century. >> and this mango shaped-- which is very tiny but very, very beautiful was probably, we think, made for the emperor

shahnama the builder of of the taj mahal. he was-- and in this period you also had the production of the jeweled arts reached a kind of great height and here you have two pieces of rock crystal which are brought together. and tied together really by a cage of meandering arabesques going over the surface created by inlaid gold wire and tiny gems, rudies and emeralds inlaid not gold. and then a little enameled attorney. it might have been for perfume or some sort of cosmetic. but that's -- >> is it fair to say that much of the art is about sort of luxury? or -- >> the great thing about the mets collection being so enpsyche pedic is that you can actually see art at many levels, you see the luxury production for the nobels, the rulers and em rathers but also have kind of urban art, every day objects from

the archaeological section that we talked about earlier and a whole lot of trade associated art so it's a wide variety of material that you see, different context. >> okay. the next one is a dagger, this is the last one we have. this is india, second half of the 16th century. >> yeah, we are happy. we just acquired this so this is a very exciting object to talk about. >> how did you acquire it, where did it come from. >> it came from the carrie welch collection. a great pioneer in our field, he was sheila's professor at harvard and i was a-- later student of his. he was very influenced us all in our love and understanding of this material. and he also had a great private collection which recently went on sale after he passed away last year. so anyway, we were able to make a couple of extraordinary acquisitions at this sale and this is one of them.

it's a dagger, the hilt is composed of a sort of interlocked animals in a kind of hunting motif. you have a dragon attack a feline attacking a deer and a bird way tiny snake in its mouth and all beautifully designed, it balances in your hand wonderfulfully and looks perfectly matched at the bottom. the blade is amazing but the iconnography of those figures is also fascinating because in the late 16th century, the decan being the south central part of india where this dagger was made, you had the coming together of influences from iran, turkey, europe and then the great indiana tradition of great an particular wit in that period as well and this is all reflected in the iconnography here. >> it seems to me at least as one who seems, likes to connect dots that there is something, there is a renaissance. >> i hope so. >> you know. >> and an appreciation of islamic art and it comes

after certainly over the last ten years, or you know, last 20 years, a focus on political islam. >> well there is so much focus on it. but then the coincidence, i suppose s that the lo, vre is redoing their whole wing, they have a whole courtyard of the louvre that they are filling in with their collection, that in berlin the museum for islam eck art there is taking over a whole wing of the-- museum, but that will take long other. that is going to be, you know, nine years from now or somethingment but still, these big national museums with really comprehensive collections are going to have fantastic venues now. they always did have good venues but this is going to be better. and i feel that's certainly the same with the met. i mean we gained 4,000 square feet and four galleries with these new galleries. >> yes. >> over the old ones. >> i mean in this, you know,

the eventful years during which we were doing this work meant that we had to be so much more aware in some sense of the world os that the audiences were in. i mean when we were actually doing our planning and as art historians we inhabit a scholarly sphere and do our best for professionals for the works of art but when it comes to presenting them to the audiences, you have to understand something about their world and what they sort of experience on a daily basis in terms of understanding these regions and the kind of cultures that, and so you know, sort of understanding their world and planning so that you can relate, help them relate to these objects as you know a challenging task. and we've done it in many different ways through a didactic program around the galleries, through the floor plan itself, and through the millions of tours that we offer. >> sn there an outreach program in coordination with the state department. >> yeah, the state department, that's been a fantastic thing.

i mean that has been so lucky for us. the head of the cultural education part of the state department and stock just sort of embraced this project. and so she got people to come from the state department and do film of the galleries. and then there is a kind of a, you know, video of our galleries that is up on screens in 270 consulates. and it's where people are waiting for their visas so i hope they didn't get angry, but you know, on the other hand, i think wow-- . >> rose: it shows america has an appreciation of islamic culture. >> exactly. >> rose: congratulations this is extraordinary, it really is, thank you, thank you. >> thank you,. >> thank you. the operahouse and concert halls of today reflect artistic aspirations and creative ambitions. their roots stretch back to classical antiquity, renaissance italy and early modern england while the victoria newhouse explores this subject in her new

book. the book is called sight and sound, the architecture and accuse fix of new operahouses and concert halls. joining me to talk about this work is a distinguished panel. renee fleming, famous for sing everywhere and everything from mozart to rock, daniel libeskind is the architect of memorable buildings like the jewish museum in berlin and the grand canal these never dub lick. michael kaiser has been the celebrated director of the kennedy center in washington for more than a decade and victoria newhouse an architectural historian whose book includes-- a art an the power of placement. i am pleased to have all of them here at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: you and i have talked about museums and architecture frequently. >> that's true. >> rose: so why you have turned to sight and sound. >> well, i became aware of an explosion of construction of these venues, operahouses and concert halls. someone said recently that it's a golden age of the

concert hall. there are literally hundreds of concert halls and operahouses being constructed around the world. and they're very, very interesting and exciting. as threatically i think they're greatly improved over what we had before. they're more intimate. they're smaller and more intimate. they are more inviting. they are a khowstically improved. many of them are accusically adjusted to play contemporary music as well as older traditional music. and many of them have the ability to be reconfigured. so changes in the seating, for example, and the placement of the stage instead of stage just being at one end of a rectangular room, all of a sudden you can surround the stage with the audience. and so all of this makes for a very exciting scene.

>> does it also lead to an appreciation, a new appreciation among different groups for music? >> absolutely. and it also brings civic excitement. it brings people to the centers of these cities. it makes them very interested in supporting the arts organizations. so from our perspective it's a very important contribution. and also the renovation of old halls and the sort of restoration of old halls can also be very exciting. adding modern elements to an old hall can make people suddenly want to go to the op ra, the ballet, 9 symphony. so we love it. >> how do you see it, you in the business of running kennedy center. >> i think the new halls can generate tremendous excitement. the challenge has been to maintain that excitement after the hall is open. and that i think is something that many people don't think enough about as they create new halls. >> when you think about architect, architect force awhile there and for a long while, first it was churches. then it became museums in terms of public spaces. now concert halls which bring what kind of challenge for the architect? >> well, the tremendously

challenging because you have to get a lot of people together, you have to create an intimacy so people really want to come rather than listen on their ear phones at home. they want to come to a great hall. and of course the challenge is to create a great accuse qal space and social space and as renee said also to renovate urban space to change the urban space they are building an incredibly important architectural statement. so i think there's a lot of challenges but a lot of excitement. >> at the end of this book you talk about classical musk as well, an appreciation of classical muss eck. do you believe that this will help bring a new renaissance and appreciation of classical muss snick. >> well, i hope so i mean i think what is one of the great encouragements about young people and classical music, is that audiences may be diminishing in traditional venues, but they're increasing in the alternative venues. in the-- rouge, for example, which is a cab ar a and

there are many such around the world, it's extraordinary. i started to research this and i found that literally around the world even in china to a certain extent, there are alternatives in venues. many of them have a kind of cabaret style where you can have a drink, even a sandwich while you are listening to music. and they're much less formal and much less expensive. and young people are flocking to these places to hear among other things, classical music. so yes, i do, definitely. >> you began this book want exploration of history looking backment where you take us and what do we learn from where you take us. >> well, the greeks, hundreds of years before the christian era, were aware of acoustics and epadoris for example, that is famous for it's acoustics. and i do think, just to come back to the question you asked renee that there have been tremendous advances in acoustics.

you know this 300 year repetition of the horseshoe for the operahouse was based on the assumption that you had to have a sell et call horseshoe shape-- symmetrical horseshoe shape now in china the recent operahouse is slightly assymetrical and that is based on new accuse call discoveries that in fact there is a theory that acoustics might even be richer, the acoustics of a house could even be richer if the house is slightly assymetrical. >> have you sang in china. >> yes, i have. and it's so funny because i thought the purpose of the horseshoe was because opera was social so the people could look at each other. >> it was, it was supposed to. >> absolutely t was for hundreds of years. >> that so interestingment now people really care about the acoustics. but china is an interesting examplement and i've been in the national these never beijing which i loved. >> but in fact it was so much mythology about

acoustics, the old-fashioned notion that you had to have a straight line, complete symmetry, because when you look at bore okay space, great musical space these are spatial t is the space itself that creates acoustics it is not a linear process of delivering the sound. and i think modern acoustics, it has become a science. it is still a matter of intuition as well it is not a pure science because you have to just be lucky enough to have the right materials, you know, it's an art. it's still an art. it's not a pure science. >> let me take you now to new york city and the hall which is at lincoln center. what is the significance of th ?is what was done there.? >> because lincoln center has had a sum would say a tortured history with respect to appreciation. >> definitel >> well, i mean if you compare that with the way the july yard school looked before and theant rants to the hall which was really, it was a style called brutalism, for good reason. because it was a concrete as if ad that was hardly inviting.

now the transparency is extraordinary. i mean that say buzzword in this kind of architecture today, is transparency. you can look into the lobby. you can go into the lobby and have a coffee before the concert over after or whatever. and also meshing the whole center in with the life of the city. i mean this whole idea of the performing arts being sacrosanct and having to be removed like a temp el on a podium is totally passe. i mean now what we want is to integrate the arts into our daily life. >> this is a view of the plaza in front of the metropolitan operahouse also at lincoln center, look at this. >> you know, i think of some of the halls i have been into where there is public space that is accessible that is inviting, that invites op ale toctually just relax and b tr.ogethe t i mean i would wish for more of that, actually greenet, for more green. but at least there is a plaza which frankly is lard to come by in new york city.

there isn't that much pedestrian states. >> take the next image, the oslo operahouse and tell me what as wltis this was built in 2008. what does this is a to us, victoria. >> will, well, the architect, one of the architects who was involved with this said if you can step on it, you feel you own it. and that's what he did here. i mean it's a monumental building but you can walk on the roof. i mean what we are looking at there is the roof. favoritebecome the promenade for os lo, it is extraordinary. i mean there are people there morning, noon and night. i was up there on that roof in a snowstorm at about 12 1:00 at night. >> and you felt like you owned it. >> i did. >> i felt as if i owned the city, not just the operahouse. >> i think one of the things that it also shows is that the placement of such a building, large building is no longer just in the center heart scape as you said. but it is on water, there are other qualities op 1 people want from such a large building. >> okay there is the new world center in miami beach.

so what do we say about that. >> that's a great building. it works very, very well with the huge outdoor performing spa for the speakers. it's got an intimacy. it's beautiful. it's fantastic. i think you what see in this picture is also the cap ability inside to do so much with video, so that there is an opportunity to really bring new technology into s the house rather than to just have technology affect the design of the house. >> yeah. >> makes it part of it. >> you can do internet broadcast from one these tore another. you can show video. there is so much that can happen in that space so naturally that can't happen in so many other concert halls. >> you not only need an acoustics expert, you need a video and technology expert. >> absolutely. >> definitely. and having the modular space within to also present say a schubert song and then without having to go to another placing will you have a quartet, then the orchestra, and this is all within one space. >> but its, a very important point that these spaces are

not just accuse call, but they are visual. >> you listen in a different way but it's not just about listening. >> rose: this is an outdoor view of theam se place in miami. >> yeah. >> rose: what does that say to you, daniel. >> well, it means that we want accessibility. nobody wants buildings that are as victoria said sort of a white elephant. you want people to interact. >> you want them to invite you in. >> and you want people to just casually encounter culture rather than go once in a year to i a performance in a suit. so i think it is a great democratization of architecture. >> you see the same thing in terms of places, certainly out in california, certainly in silicon valley. and this building we're in now, there is a sense of inviting you in. and the buildings are designed so that people run into each other. >> exactly. >> that's right. >> and now that we don't have as much or consistent arts education in public schools, this kind of accessibility can mean the difference between having terrific future artists and audience members or not.

>> rose: is that because of our economic crisis that we don't have the same kind of arts education in our public school. >> absolutely, i think so. >> is a long-term economic crisis it is not just the last few years t is a 20 year decline in arts education. >> it is a real mistake. >> rose: it's all driven by economics, lack of an appreciation of what it can do for a young mind. >> i think there is a lack of appreciation particularly in the economy in which we live, where children need to be trained to be creative and to be problem solvers. and we in the arts i think can help with that. i don't think there is an appreciation for that but the central problem has been economic. its arts education is viewed as a luxury rather than a necessity. >> rose: the next one is the danish in copenhagen this is the exterior. >> that's right rdz look at that, so daniel, tell me about this, what do you as an architect see. >> is a very high-tech sort of skin that you can really project, very abstract form. it's very abstract. it's powerful.

it's definitely something that is going by public transport system, walking through the new area of copenhagen. you will definitely see as a magnet for activity. so yeah. >> rose: this is the grand canal theatre. tell me about this, since you designed it. >> this is, this completely s abandoned industrial, nobody went-- this is a kind of public private partnership to create a very small footprint. it's a very, very moddest theatre but really give it accessibility to make it open. make the lobby, the piazza and waterfront and it has become very successful. a huge theatre, more than 2,000 seats for opera, for, you know, rock concerts for different kinds of performances. so it's been renovating the city. it's really, you know, the first large scale theatre in dublin which is a musical city. >> stephen: so when did you this were you influenced by your earlier career as an accordion player. >> i was because i didn't really think how it should look. i said you know, it's actually a black box.

most of this kind of these certificate a black box, as you know. it's what happens, it make the performance possible. but to make that work as smoothly and well, and to make it look good given the constraints. and every client gives you constraints. you know, some people want the beautiful to think they have a lot of money. some don't. >> the big challenge right now is dublin is that the arts organizations aren't strong enough to use this facility the way it should be used. and in fact-- . >> rose: ed strengthening the arts organization. >> and in fact, i will be leading a two-year course in dublin with trinity college there because exactly, you started it. because you set a standard which they now want to emulatement so now they are going to really work very hard to strengthen the artistic infra-- infrastructure to justify the physical infrastructure. >> rose: one of the ideas i'm hearing here beyond this sort of need, the changes in terms of sound and acoustics is the notion of architecture and performing arts facilities or venues being used to change a neighborhood, being used as

a magnet. >> right. >> as a magnet to change a place that has not been attracted before. >> lincoln center. >> lincoln center is a good example of a -- >> let me take a look at an intendier of the grand canal theatre. >> the person on the stage without any microphone can be -- without any microphone can be heard, so it is a sign it works very well a khowstically there is enhanced sound when you have all kinds of performances. and by the way a lot of the acoustics today is enhanced. not in this case but in many has, even in the philharmonic hall in berlin there are small microphones. so the whole idea of the ear has changed because people, you know, how many people hear a violin over a pure vice. they are exposed to other technologies. >> rose: so the challenge for you different today. >> i think is incredibly important that we are main,

acoustically sound that we not be amp find, because we are the last reminding performers not to be amp find. when people hear me sing in a hall they are hearing the natural human voice, they are hearing the natural orchestra-- organize tra because this is the centring thing about accuse fixment because with amplification everything can be tweaked it really doesn't matter what the acoustic is. but otherwise, it has to be right. and it has to be balanced, not just for the audience who wants to hear homogenized balanced sound but for us on stage. if we can't hear each other well then we won't perform well so that's the challenge of acoustics. >> absolutely. >> i think one of the most interesting things is this phenomenal phenomena of psycho acoustics where if you have a particularly user-friendly environment, people perceive the acoustics, natural acoustics as even better than they actually are. so. >> i never heard that before you. >> rose: speak to that.

>> that's absolutely true. audiences, it's how they feel, will have a big impact on how they perceive a performance. it's why a half empty hall virtually never is appreciated as a full hall. >> rose: because you feel like everybody -- >> you just don't have that same sense of socialness that makes a performance so exciting. >> rose: okay, next is the theatre we talked about, the operahouse in china, built in 2010. there it is because victoria? >> well, unfortunately this house is darkment a large part of year, b ecauseas you mentioned at the beginning of the program, there just is no funding for programming.au >> rose: wow. >> i have heard that so off than there is money f f buildings and for structes but not for programming. >> well, that happens in the united states too. >> rose: i look at the royal operahouse in amman this is 2011, so heres is the mid el east. look at this, you can see

the influence. >> but that's strange in the 21st century to build a hall that looks so old-fashioned. i would have thought it was a very ancient building. and i'm sure it is very beautiful inside but i have not-- you have seen it. >> i haven't seen it. but i think both renee and michael have. >> tell us about it. >> i was one of the opening performers. and michael has been really running it so -- >> are you running this? >> yes. >> how many rooms can you run, michael. >> there are a lot of hours in the day. >> rose: that's what they tell me. so tell me about this then. >> the sultan ofman wanted to bring culture to the country. >> rose: and coafford it. >> and he could afford it and they've whether the an operahouse that really functions more than just as an operahouse. it is a concert hall. they have, the exciting thing about oman is it is at the crossroads between africa, asia, india, europe and so there is many different cultures that are presented in that facility. it's a beautiful, beautiful

facility. but it's an old-fashioned looking facility. and but it has been filled every single performance, since october. >> rose: anything unique about the acoustics within i thought it was quite wonderful. i really enjoyed it i also thought it functioned very well backstage. and that's important to us. we really have to have a dressing room that's properly equipped or we find it difficult to get ready. and i also loved the fact that the concert hall was on a track, and slid back to reveal an operahouse. that i have never seen anywhere in the world. >> the challenge in oman is now to really bring arts education to the country, so that more and more local people appreciate what's happening in the operahouse. and feel a relationship to the operahouse. that's going to be the central challenge there. >> rose: i now want to move to the d and charles wiley these never dallas. tell me about, this was -- >> it was built as a drama theatre. but at cowes particulars turned out to be so versatile and so excellent for every genre that there is-- .

>> rose: now they can do shall. >> they are starting to do classical music. they're thinking of doing chamber opera. >> rose: so why were the acoustics so great. >> i don't know. they had a great acoustician i guess. frank geary says acoustics is 9 mystical magic straight out av liss and wonderland. so i don't know if that answers your question. >> it's an interesting issue that you really point to because the sense of balance in the human become is not in the eye but in the inner ear. >> rose: exactly. >> so the hering is incredibly important. so the volume et rick proportion is not just a stages, but the volume, the body of the building. and i think good buildings have the body. >> but also this theatre can be reconfigured with the click of a mouse. they are saving dozens if not hundreds of man hours in changing seats and stages. >> rose: you can take your computer and change it. >> yes, they can click on their computer and the

balconies actually rise up and disappear. i mean i have never encountered that in all my research in any other theatre. >> this wiley theatre, the d in charles wiley theatre, there you go, it is ba we have been talking about. >> technology can also help save money when we renovated the royal operahouse in london in late 09 os we built in a set moving procs oothat tk awhile to de bug but wn it didat, it lo uwed to ds get rid of and tire group of stage hands who worked overnight to change sets with the bush of-- push of a button. >> let me take a look this is thai pay. performance arts center in iw >> thisro >> this is-- look at that. >> he has been within of the most adventureous designers of theatres. so i think it's very interesting that he has made the statement that theatre and music is best performed in nontheatres. i don't know, what would you say. >> i think it's-- there is truth to itness.

>> rose: it has the added benefit of being truthful. >> in the sense you can get away from the formula. there is a formula of expectation. this is what eye theatre should look like this is what a music space, if you just shift away from it, you can still create an incredible building. which has new expectations, new ideas. >> and i think that's right. >> the art that surprises us. >> do we have another picture inside, the intestifyier. >> the great attraction of this, it is being built as we talk, is that its three theatres houses three theatres. and all three will share the same backstage. which is a tremendous economy. >> yeah, it's very -- difficult to do because you have to relink it, sort of save it. >> so does this trend, that we have been experiencing today because of this book sight and sound does it have momentum, does it have, you know -- >> i would say so. i just heard, i mean i was in, i left china a year and a half ago and i just heard of yet another concert hall under one of the main squares in china that nobody

had mentioned to me when i was there a year and a half ago that just opened. so i would say there is definite momentum. >> let me just come back to classical music why did you include classical muss neck this. >> an appreciation of classical music. >> it's all class cag. it's all about classical music. very often i am referring to contemporary classical. >> right. >> but the last chapter of course i refer perhaps more specifically to education. which is such a problem as michael pointed out. but i do feel and i would love to know what michael thinks about this, that the private sector has picked up that duty to a certain extent, do agree with that. >> the private sector has. the problem is, is that it's so disjointed in most communities. we've left the purchase decision up to an individual teacher, so a third greater might get many arts experiences if the teacher loves the arts and then go to the fourth grade and get no arts experience because

if the fourth grade teacher doesn't love the arts. we don't teach any other subject that way. in your child comes home and says we're not learning math because my teacher doesn't like t we wouldn't accept that. but we do with the arts. so the real challenge to us is how do we create a substantive coherent education in the arts. so children get to exercise their creative muscle. >> rose: sight and sound, victoria newhouse, great to see you. >> michael, always good to you have in new york. >> great. >> thank you. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org