>> rose: welcome to our program. tonight, we begin with a conversation about private equity. it has become part of the public political debate and we talk to don gogel, he is ceo of clayton, dubilier & rice, a rhodes scholar and a former strong obama supporter now supporting governor romney. we have 16 companies, most of them in the united states, most of our sales are here. but we have global footprint in some of our businesses operating 150 different countries. those businesses i think are representative of most sectors of the economy.

we don't participate in real estate or energy, so take that out. but a wid wide range of food see distribution, car rentals, a variety of different businesses and we have seen a recovery of modest proportion, i care deeply about the policies that will be passed, will be championed by the president and hopefully passed by congress. and i hope they are going to take on a more constructive tone towards business and be a pro growth set of policies. i recognize it is complicated, i recognize it is partisanship and recognize people got elected but i am concerned that in the noise, in the tornado of politics and unfortunately it has become a tornado, we are going to lose what is most essential to this country, which is the ability for individuals to band together, free association, free enter price, create businesses and create jobs. >> rose: from private equity to television, we talk to andy cohen of bravo host and

executive producer of watch what happens live, he is author of a new book about himself called most talkative. >> i grew upsetting this far away from a tv set, i mean, i loved tv and i wanted to work in it, i wanted to be on it, and the idea that i found my way there all of these years later doing both, and i really had given up by the way the idea of being on the camera. >> rose: yes. >> it was something i had given up years ago. >> rose: don gogel, and andy cohen, coming up. sero wa sor crlie rose was provided by the following. it feels like help is never far

away. it feels like you are protected against life's little mishaps. it feels like you will make it home. that is what it feels like to be a member. additional funding provided by these funders. >> andably bloomberg, a provider of multimedia and news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: donald gogel is here, he is ceo of clayton, dubilier & rice, before that he was a graduate of harvard college, harvard law school, a rhodes scholar and worked at mackenzie

and company the management consulting firm. his private equity firm is one of the oldest in the country, this week, private equity has been front and center, the of the presidential race the obama campaign employed a barge of negative ads claiming bain capital under mitt romney was a job destroyer. >> destroyed thousands of people's careers, life times, just destroyed people. he is running for president and if he is going to run the country he ran our business i wouldn't want him there. he would be so out of touch with the average person in this country. >> how you would could you care? >> how could you care for the average working person if you feel that way? >> i am barack obama, and i approve this message. >> rose: these ads have been questioned by some of president obama's prominent supporters, on meet the press last weekend, corey booker said they went too far. >> this kind of stuff is nauseating to me on both sides, it is nauseating to the american

public, enough is enough. stop attacking private equity, stop attacking jeremiah wright, this stuff has to stop because what it does is it undermines to me what this country should be focused on, it is a distraction from the real issues, it is going to be a small campaign about this crap or it is going to be a big campaign in my opinion about the issues of, that america cares about. >> rose: booker reiterated his support for president obama this evening i am pleased to have donald gogel at this table for the first time he is a friend of mine and he knows the private equity business and wants to put some context in that. it is also interesting in 2008 he was a prominent supporters of president obama. having said that, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. glad to be here. >> rose: help us understand what private equity does and does not do. >> private equity is a form of organizing capital to buy businesses, it is a form of governance, it is a form, an approach to thinking about how you would run a business. it is a little bit different than a public arena. absent the precious of running a public company, private capital

which is really represents three quarters of all the companies in the united states that are privately owned so private capital gets to think about a business in a much longer period, much longer term thinking which can be very attractive, to the shareholders, to the employees, and ultimately to the country. >> rose: you mostly buy businesses that are understood performing you are not out buying the most successful businesses in the country. >> that's an important point. private equity doesn't usually get the opportunity to buy crown jewels. we buy businesses that are in transition, that need support, and that public markets or other investors may not really want to take the time or the effort, put in the pal for what is ultimately an assessment of risk versus reward and these things are sometimes complicated. in the early 90s we bought ibm's typewriter business. now, in retrospect, people could say that was one crazy investment, but there was the beginning of a computer printer business, a laser printer and there was a subsequent series of

very, very attractive products that came em out, it was 20 years ago but 20 years after that a typewriter business becomes a $4 billion revenue company with 13,000 employees that is a good story for private equity. >> rose: 20 percent of the businesses you buy fail or i iss the percentage business? >> no that is not even close. private equity has a remarkably good record, i mean, for us, we have had a handful of businesses that didn't work out, but i think private equity across-the-board has a much better record and i would cite that in a couple of ways. one would be default rates on bonds and i don't want to get too technical about it, but if you borrow money and don't repay it you defaulted, and private equity firms bond have defaulted 1.2 percent rate historically, that is lower by a big factor of corporations generally, 1.6 percent, and lower than the high yield bonds of companies that are significant borrowers with the same kind of leverage

racial owes that fail 4.7 times, 4.7 percent, so it is really a business in which you may not get your known back, you may not get the returns in which case you won't be very successful but the number of true failures in private equity is very, very low. >> rose: some argue that this is the traditional formula, you go borrow the money, you go buy a company and try to get it up and running, change it, recreate it and make it better, you take a fee of about two percent for that, and then secondly, you take 20 percent of whatever appreciation there is in the value of the company and you keep them on the average of five or six years. is that a fair appraisal of the way it works? >> that is part of the story. the holding period is right. private equity firms hold on average five or six years for the businesses they own and the reason is for that is typically you are buying a business and unlike putting on a new roof on the house which you can do in a summer or in a week or month, private equity firms are taking

on fairly significant challenges in these businesses that need renovation of their product line, their distribution channel, their sales force, this just takes a long period of time and so that is really the reason for the holding period. the borrowed money is a matter of many things but it certainly enhance it is returns if you borrow too much you get in trouble and you could lose the opinion so i think there is a fair recognition of that and that's why the default rate is even among the more levered companies is modest you need a steady business, steady cash flow or otherwise you shouldn't borrow a lot of money but yes the general concept of putting equity in the deal, borrowing money, having five or six years to improve that business is correct, the other thing i would note though at the owned the five or six years period you will take the company public or sell it to another buyer, and you better have improved that business otherwise you are going to get less for than money -- for that business than you put i into it. >> rose: but you still get your fee and some people think

that is not right. >> that is also partially correct, but what people don't recognize is the structure of the industry which has been around for almost 30 years is all investments in a fund are in a pool. that pool cross collateralize one another so if you lose in one an gain in the other you don't take through gains without netting them against your losses. now, there is the possibility at the end of the fund you will have fees that have not been recouped, but the way the complicated waterfall as they call it of cash flows go, is that we have to return to our investors if the capital they put in, the fees we take out and eight percent preferred return, they get the capital, the fees, the first eight percent and then and only then is the profit sharing take place. in a disaster case it is true there are some fees that would go to the private equity firm, but that is not a private equity -- >> rose: so even though the employees of that business could

lose and be out of a job you still will make a fee even if it fails or even if it is not successful? >> that can occur, it doesn't often otherwise we wouldn't be -- >> rose: because they don't fail often. >> because they don't fail very often. >> rose: the president says, i don't have anything against private equity he points specifically to bain and he point to specifically incidents, i mean you know mitt romney. >> yes. >> you worked with him, competed -- >> no, i haven't seen him, really, for 30 years but i did compete against him recruiting students a out of business schos when i was with mackenzie and company and he was a consultant with bain capital and running their consulting. >> i'm sorry bain consulting. >> right. >> rose: the point is that mitt romney also was management consultant before he became or got into private equity? >> yes. >> and that is the business that you simply consult with businesses for a fee rather than make an investment in them? >> that is correct.

back to the steel company story, what should we know about that, as far as you know, the one his president and campaign team point to as what can be wrong and what is a black mark on private equity? >> well, my only knowledge is what i read in the same press that you read, and if the coverage is correct, it is cheerily unfortunate that that one steel mill did close, a factory was closed an hundreds of jobs were lost and that is absolutely a tragedy. you have to put that in the context of what happened in the steel industry generally and whether you were private equity, owned, public owned, zoo, steel was a tough industry and factories closed down, i don't think it makes sense to point to private equity as the villain in job destruction. >> rose: pointing to bain capital as prima facie evidence of what can be attributed to the hand of mitt romney? >> well, it did happen, it is one case but i think most sensible people would put it in

the context of how many companies how many jobs were created and from some of the reports indicated the steel company had other divisions that actually added capital. so job losses is terrible under any circumstance but it is not the modus operandi of private equity other than 27,000 jobs will be lost at hewlett packard according to the announcement that came out today, it is not a private equity story, it is changes in the world. >> rose: you were a strong supporter of the president in 2008. are you concerned about the nature of this rhetoric? >> i am. i am concerned because although i am not deeply involved in are, and don't expect to be in politics per se i care deeply about this country, i care deeply about the policies that will be past, will be passed, championed by the president and hopefully passed by congress and i hope they are going to take on a more constructive tone towards business and be a pro growth set of policies. i recognize it is complicated, i recognize there is partisanship

and i recognize people got elected but i am concerned that in the noise, in the tornado of politics, and unfortunately it has become a tornado, we are going to lose what is most essential to this country, which is the ability for individuals to band together, free association, free enterprise, create businesses and create jobs. >> rose: you seem to put a lot of the blame at the foot of the president. >> no, i don't think that is accurate. i have enormous respect for president obama. i think our dysfunction in congress, in not being able to fashion the kind of compromises that i think most measures like to see, americans like to see, are more or equally to blame. my comment about the rhetoric is i do believe both the president and mitt romney in this campaign have the ability to take and strike a more constructive tone that doesn't demonize either side, doesn't create the kind of divisiveness that i don't think is very helpful. >> rose: you told me in a business week interview, when i

asked you, where you had -- you were a strong supporter of president obama and had this change, had this changed your -- were you now trending to supporting governor romney? >> and what i said then and i will say now, is that i believe that a number of the policies that governor romney is proposing are pro growth. we like to see a lot more there is a long time between now and the election he, i think we will see more about the policies of job foration and tax reform and a variety of other things but right now i am disappointed president obama is -- >> rose: you think right now governor romney is better for the economy and business than president obama? >> i do. and you are more likely to support governor romney? >> i am. >> rose: have you communicated that to the president? >> i have not. >> rose: and his supporters? >> i have. >> rose: because he was here in new york and he went to see some people in the very business that you are in to raise money from them. when he comes to raise money, whawhat does he say?

>> i wasn't there. i can't tell you. >> rose: you know where i am talking about. >> i do. >> rose: but you must have heard does he say, what? >> i am here to raise money for you but you know at the say time i will attack governor romney and attack his activities at bain capital as being job destroying rather than job creating? >> i can only speculate what he actually said. i can tell you that a number of the people surrounding the president that are trying to dwayne support of wall street people in the financial community and the broader business community so that the main street as well as wall street have asked people for a little more forbearance we should just recognize this is typical politics and that things will settle down and will get a more measured approach to all of these issues. >> rose: so they are saying look this is the heat of the moment, we are trying to win this election and don't turn on us so fast? >> i think that -- >> rose: give us your money. >> i think that's the argument and i think the hope for those who still are holding out hope is that the typical pattern of

many presidential elections are to run at the edges left and right and then as you move. >> rose: move no the center. >> then you move no the center and we have plenty of examples of that from republicans and democrats, one could argue that bill clinton started that way and moved to the center, you could argue that ronald reagan certainly ended up moving to the center on a number of important issues, including tax reform. >> rose: let's talk about leadership. mitt romney was governor, mitt romney ran the olympics, mitt romney was a management consultant, and he was senior partner in a private equity firm, bain capital. does that give him, does that give him essential skills to be president or not? >> i think those are important skills. they are not sufficient, i think the presidency requires the most extraordinary set of skills of diplomat and statesman on the one hand, economist, philosopher, very complicated job, but as to the economy,

which i believe is the most essential issue facing this country today, i think that his experience is directly relevant, when you think about his management consulting experience, talking to businesses, how they would succeed, how they can be competitive, remember, we can talk about the united states alone but we are operating in a global economy in which our companies really have to succeed against all comers. part of what bain was founded on, as mackenzie was as well is giving strategic advice on how to compete in industry after industry after industry and having consulted for hundreds of companies and having invested in hundreds of companies i think the perspective that governor romney developed has to be valuable in what will be a continuing competitive battle for success in the world. >> rose: measuring leader hip is an interesting question. how do you do it? what kind of leadership best serves a president? this president who has performed in the judgment of many people well in foreign

policy, there is some debate about that, but many people, including bob gates, a republican, who served under president bush gives him high marks in foreign policy where he had zero experience. >> well, i think intelligence and judgment, am lit tick rigor, .. sort of the human sort of dimension of being able to read people, compassion, those are all essential elements i think of a great leader. i don't think that, although i said they are essential, not necessarily sufficient and i think the question the american public is going to look at over the next several months before we get up to the election is, what type of leadership are we going to hear about and believe and a big part of that is going to be not just about the president but about the talent that will be attracted to a new administration, whether it be republican or democrat. >> rose: and. >> ultimately it is about talent. >> rose: and your judgment of the obama economic performance?

is? >> i think a number of the recovery elements after the crash were well conceived, i supported them, i think they could have done a number of things better but i wasn't there and i think they muddled through as well as just about anybody. once we got through that crisis, i think a number of things are lacking and i think the inability of the president to lead on a budget and tax reform bill, even though i recognize that he has got to get support through congress, but the deal wasn't made, and simpson-bowles wasn't picked up and i think that, unfortunately, is -- it set the country back. >> rose: and the country had the bully pulpit? >> i thought he did so that just a disappointment,. >> rose: he still has it. >> a disappointment in leadership. >> rose: do you believe we should have had, he should have gone forward on healthcare at the time he did or kept the focus, laser focus on the

economy because unemployment from eight to nine percent is simply unacceptable and causing too much pain in the country? >> well, in retrospect it is easy to say he should have gone after the economy, but as someone deeply involved in healthcare i have been on an academic medical center board for 30 years, and i have a daughter who is a physician, healthcare is a real crisis as well so to choose healthcare or choose the economy i recognize that was a hard choice, in retrospect it doesn't look like the right one they were they are both crises for the united states, unfortunately i think this country has to address both, and i wouldn't have addressed healthcare right the way it got developed and i think we will see a lot of changes there but in regrow expect the economy didn't get enough attention, no doubt in my mind. >> was the individual mandate necessary? >> i don't think so. it was -- i think we could have achieved that in a number of different ways, and even as the supreme court debate unfolded, i think most people believed that if the tax code were used to accomplish the same the result,

we wouldn't have had this particular challenge that may or may not succeed. >> rose: obviously you don't know nor do i but what do you think the supreme court may do? >> if you were to read body language, i think abetting person would say that at least some of it will be struck down. >> rose: at least individual mandate portion? >> that is correct. >> rose: and part of the argument is whether they could take that out and just declare that unconstitutional and support the rest of it. >> #02: and i venture no opinion because i really don't know whether that would be possible or whether that is the likely -- >> rose: you think the individual mandate portion may be vulnerable based on body language and the nature of the questioning. >> and the nature of the questioning. >> and that's all -- >> rose: than is not necessarily a pure guide as we know from the cases. >> this is the supreme court that can surprise, and as many do. >> rose: come back to the president and this idea that business deals, that they have been demonized, you are a businessman, you are in the business community. you know businessmen on wall street and in main street, is that a real problem for them?

>> i think it makes people feel bad, i think it is a question that end uptaking on a disproportionate life of its own in terms of business confidence, and when people have a sense and companies have a sense they are uncertain about the environment, whether the tax law is going to be changed, whether it is a whole series of regulatory regulations will be changed and it is in the context of what at least appears to be less than full understanding and appreciation of the role of business i think it is a problem. i think it is a problem. >> rose: of course the president can point out people calling him a socialist and worse from the other side of the political aisle as well as some people in the business community. >> i don't think you need to go in that direction at all. i think the only question i is s on the positive side what can the president do, what can congress do and whether the president is, mr. romney or mr. obama, we have got to look ahead and i think that is the debate we are likely to have over the next couple of months.

i do think there is opportunity, private equity plays an important role that guy back to when i started with three quarters of the businesses in this country are private, and the private companies have a terrific track record, i just think whoever -- >> rose: as job creators. >> just across-the-board let me give you an example i was speaking this morning to the head of very successful investment manager that manages $15 billion of assets for university endowments, for pension funds, so not individual investors. and of the $15 billion about 25 percent or so is private equity. their private equity portfolio out performs the public market three years, six years, pick your time frame. they out perform in price and in value creation, and if you look below that, they have a faster revenue growth, they have a faster profit growth, and this is a big surprise, for this

portfolio, they have a lower level of debt. so to talk about private equity by picking a steel company that went bankrupt 1520 years ago, what i think is ignores the broader series of ikts ah issues and fact based. we supported work that was done by the -- through the world economic forum to study the impact that private equity had across a range of activities. this goes directly to the debate we are having and no one seems to care to look to the record. this was a study that was completed the first version, the first level of it was in 2008, 2009, 2010 and looked at all of the things we are talking about. it looked at innovation, the answer was, private equity firms do not cut r and department, and the patent filings if anything increased. employment, the record is very good. when you are buying a business in which your people are losing jobs it doesn't stopover night the private equity firms reversed that trend -- >> rose: how did private

equity get the reputation it strips off the assets, sells them makes a profit and abandons the company? >> it is an interesting story, people like stories. that situation that you just described does exist, but there are 5,000 private equity firms, 5,000, there are tens and 20s of thousands of deals done every year, the fact that a couple of them go bad is truly unfortunate. >> rose: just a couple of them? >> well, i just gave you the statistics, i mean the numbers of defaults are only 1.2 percent, and the default doesn't necessarily mean all the jobs are loss, it means the owner lost his money and another person -- >> rose: where do you come down on regulation in dodd frank? >> >> the complexity is mind numbing and it is one of those areas where most people can recognize there are serious problems to address, that

regulation is indeed required, i mean there are very few an rand, ann rand fountain head fans on wall street that i would say just have government go away. life is complex. and dodd frank i think .. was an effort to try to address some of these issues but congress is really disadvantaged trying to understand how to solve some of these problems. and they recognize that. so they created a framework and they gave it to the regulators and the regulators are split in trying to solve these and we now have literally just the volcker rule is hundreds of pages. there is a real problem we need have a better way of addressing the regulation because so far from what i can tell we haven't solved the problem. >> rose: the volcker rule is we to know what it is don't we. >> we do but we don't know how to apply it. we absolutely don't know thousand apply it. >> rose: essentially what it say is that banks that are -- have a deposit bearing banks and therefore the deposits are

protected by the government, should not engage in what is called proprietary trading don't we all know what that means or not? or is ate murky area? >> longer than we have today but it is murkier than you might expect for only one reason which is that banks are in the market to serve customers. take positions in serving those customers and you can argue that that is a proprietary position, aas an example the facebook ipo, the stabilization of that ipo market making by the underwriters they took position ms. they were at risk. their capital was at risk. that is a proprietary position. but it is also market making. >> rose: they did that as i understand it because they thought too many people were trying to sell and driving the price down so they came in to balance that by buying. >> that is correct. but i don't think anybody that understands the capital markets would say, gee that should be forbidden but that is proprietary activity. >> rose: what economic photograph are we looking at for the next since months?

>> let's make it full frame video, not just a photograph, and we are seeing slow motion. and that that slow motion is at least pos. we have 16 companies, most of them in the united states, most of our sales are here, though we have global footprint in some of our businesses operate in 150 different countries. those businesses i think are represent five of most secretary fours of the economy, we don't participate in real estate or energy, so take that out. but a wide range of service distribution, food service distribution, car rental, a variety of different businesses and we have seen a recovery of modest proportion which is appropriate in a country in which deleveraging is taking place. remember we have got opposing forces. we want to deleverage -- >> rose: explain what deleverage is just for the benefit -- >> we have to pay down our debts. household debts, corporate debts. >> rose: which means you have totoo much debt. >> i means you have too much debt and that slow hes down

consumption, people lose confidence they have lost a lot of money in their homes and perhaps the stock market they haven't recovered that slows down consumption so the great engine of the american economy has always been consumer spending and that has slowed down now fortunately it is a great testament to this country and people's optimism it actually has combat faster here than any developed country we know so we have had growth. >> rose: in comparison to europe. >> in comparison to europe and to where we were two years ago, so two percent growth isn't very satisfactory to, two and a half percent, three is sort of the range that even the most optimist stick economists are talking about but the economy is more fragile than any of us would like, the job creation is shore, but it is slower for reasons that are not only not regulate related to private equity but are global in nature. remember in -- our world is very different, and now we get into a series of issues far beyond what we will talk about today but do

we have people with the right skills in the right educational system developing people with the right levels of capabilities for the jobs we need, are we making those changes quickly enough? the reason i am a champion of private equity and very proud of what i do and what our industry does, is it is a mechanism for adaptation. if we didn't have private equity, i think our adaptation would be slower, some of the best practices of adaptation have been pioneered by private equity firms. >> rose: i suspect a lot of people who work with you would call you a liberal democrat, do you think? >> a moderate. >> rose: a moderate democrat. >> a centrist. >> rose: but a believer in the role of government? >> yes. >> rose: a belief that government has a function beyond national security? >> absolutely. >> why do you think we is this dysfunction in congress? >> well, you are now drawing on my masters of philosophy in politics from oxford university. as well as my personal experience. but it is really

just a very difficult period when the stakes and -- are as significant as they are now, when we have had the disruption that we have suffered it is malthat people will move towards more extreme solutions and so we end up with fairly polarized opposites in congress, that have a hard time getting together, that vital center which happens to be where i am personally comfortable but where i believe some of the most significant reforms have occurred in this country, and i can go back to bill bradley, another rhodes scholar, basketball player, a great new york knick who was one of the champions of the tax reform act of 1985. how did that get done? >> rose: the champion, he is one of the people that created it. >> he created it, and so if ask asked bill as i did, how did it happen? and he said well we were fortunate. we had a constellation of senators, packwood, for example, and others that are not sort of

known today on the republican side and democrats -- >> rose: they are hot there anymore. >> they are not there anymore and that vital center is missing. so i am not sure this election is going to change that but in the absence of that vital center i think we are going to end up with a paralysis wisdom is unfortunate for this country. >> rose: the vital center also is where the political campaign is fought, independents in the vital center are those people who generally determine elections. >> i wouldn't read too much into today's polls. i wouldn't read too much into today's political rhetoric i think what you are seeing as we see in many campaigns are a probing of the election support, left, right an center. and i think both parties will learn a fair amount over the next six, eight, ten weeks between now and the convention and the real debate is going to emerge, at least in my mind, in the last two months, when i think both parties will have a real sense or what is it going to take -- >> rose: conventions focuses on the election so they know that everybody is looking -- >> as you know.

>> rose: examining. >> there is a country and all of us are subject to this, our attention shifts very, very quickly. i don't think that, notwithstanding today's headlines and what we are talking about, private equity is going to be center stage in two or three months. >> rose: that's the reason the president is synthesizing it now because he thinks there is political gain so he can define governor romney in a certain way. >> i have no doubt that is the political calculation, i think some of the fallout from that as i have indicated is unfortunate. >> rose: when you look at friend who feel the way you do, in terms of let's assume a moderate democrat, in the center, who most of them i would assume supported president obama in 2008, what percentage of those tuning will not support him this time? >> i think as the ahead question and i really can't answer it. i will tell you that among my friends that character try as you just did, there is great anxiety about the kind of administration and leadership in some areas, and great support in

others. i mean, the president has accomplished an enormous amount. i think most of my friends would be characterized as social liberals and proudly so, but in, but increasingly conservative on the economic side. >> rose: an issue of economics will determine the election? >> and i think that is what the election is going to be about, because that balance which is -- it is a choice, it is a tough debate, but i think that is what people are struggling with today. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> my pleasure. >> rose: gogel, back in a moment. stay with us. andy cohen is here, he is bravo's executive vice president of president and talent he helped shape people with top chef and real housewives in 2009 he lived his childhood dream, appearing on television when he became the host and executive producer of bravo's late night talk show watch what happens

live, here is a look at a recent episode. >> okay. we are really good. now we have tequila for mark, so you stay on the end and martha is going to come in the middle with a little bit of vodka. this is exciting. >> this is homemade by jimmy fallon and his wife nancy. okay. one -- >> where did they get the -- >> one, two, three. that was good, right? >> that was good. is that too much? >> oh, my god. he writes about this most talkative, stories from the front lines of pop culture i am glad to have him here at this table. welcome. >> it is great to be here. thank you. >> rose: you are at the center of sort of the popular culture zeitgeist, you are there. >> okay. >> thank you. how does it feel? i mean tell me how you feel about where you are at this moment in this life.

i feel. >> i actually feel like i am where i always wanted to be, you know, i grew up,. >> that is great, i mean i grew upsetting this far from a tv set, i mean i loved tv and i wanted to work in it, i wanted to be on it. and the idea that i found my way there all of these years later, doing both, doing both and i had really given up by the way the idea of being on camera. >> it was something i had given up years ago. so that this happened later in my career is an amazing thing. >> rose: what is amazing is you faced the fact that many people face which is, you are unlikely to get on the air if you are living in a big city. >> that's exactly right. >> rose: the route to being on television is a go to a place -- >> yes. >> rose: -- where they will give you a shot. >> yes. and that was my plan. i was going to move to a small market and wasn't that excited about it. i had many internships in tv journalist, before i graduated from college. the last one was at cbs, someone

took me to lunch there. >> someone you know actually and i am not going to embarrass him by saying his name and he said you have a little bit of a wandering eye i would give up the idea of being on camera, and i said, well, i never realized that i had a wandering eye i do have a little wandering eye and you know what i love new york so muchly just move to new york and try to work at cbs news behind the scenes, and screw the on air thing and this is what i will do. and that's what i did. >> rose: and then so what happens then? >> then i worked worked as cbcbs news for eight year, and i was at 48 hours for tw 22 of them ad it was great i had a front row seat for the 90s and tell many stories in the book about many, just nutty situations where my mouth either got me in great trouble or was a great asset. i told a little lie to oprah winfrey and to my anchor paul azon. >> rose: what was that.

>> oprah winfrey coming on the morning show and taping a segment for the morning show in the spewed owe after we wrapped one day and she had agreed to do that with paul a zahn and i was prosecuting a series about at all show hosts and i wanted her to stay and do another interview for thisseries and her people said no, which she didn't heed to do this series. she was the queen and remained so. so she said, no so i said to paul a zaun and i can't believe i did that this and paula was the anchor and i said stick around after you interview oprah and we are going to keep the tape rolling, in the control room and just move right in to the other interview, don't do a separate intro, just move right into it, and it will be fine, i did not tell her she hadn't breed to do this interview, so she does what i tell her to do and i am in the greenroom and the publicist says what are you doing? we said no to this, what are you doing? and i said, oh,

well, i kind of hung it on paula, i mean it was -- the temerity was crazy the bottom line is, they leave and i get a call from oprah from her car which at this point was very unusual like 1992 or '93 and i was such a fan of oprah that i immediately started acting like i was on the oprah winfrey show and she was calling to surprise me to give me a free trip or something i was so excited she was calling me up and said no andrew i need to talk to you and i need to talk to paula zaun because she realized what i had done so i run across cbs which is an old milk factory as you know and get paula on the phone, you know and i then had to explain what i had done, it was terrible, and oprah out of the kindness of her heart, thought the interview had gone so well that she let us run the interview. now, i could have gotten fired for this. i mean, i really could have gotten fired for this. it is not good to trick your anchor and the biggest guest you will ever get on the show.

i did, and i guess i learned to always tell the truth after that. >> rose: but didn't you do something with isuzu stan lucic, an susan lucy. i was an early lover of all my children and that formed my love and passion for the real housewives all of these years later which i view as kind of a modern soap opera, so i was in college and i was writing, i had a news writing and reporting assignment to interview a famous person and they said shoot for the stars, interview somebody you really admire, sam donaldson and susan lieucally for totally different reasons. >> rose: obviously. >> there is none although looking back on it now i admire both of their hair for that reason as well. >> rose: and they had -- well sam at least had a huge personality. >> yes, owe are you are absolutely right. >> and so i went for susan and i wrote her this very impassioned

letter from a 19-year-old boy in college i really want to interview you and interview you from my, for my school paper which i thought certainly they will run this interview but i never really checked with the student -- with the school paper, she agrees i ply to new york, she takes me to lunch and this is how my book opens, it is an incredible story this woman who i had loved and admired took me to lunch and did this interview, halfway through the interview, and i now know this because i have the whole thing on tape and i listened to it in writing this, i said to her, oh, by the way because now we are best friends, you know, i don't necessarily have the interview with the paper but i am sure they will run it. and the look on her face, and the publicist is sitting there who has gotten her into this mess and then of course i quickly retract and oh, no it is a guaranteed cover, and it is amazing i then talk about life and where i am right now, she was on my show last week, on my bravo show and i just said, at the beginning i said this is incredible that you took me to lunch when i was 19, and now all of these years later you are

coming on my show and that's how life works and that is an amazing thing. >> rose: because you mention it now watch what happens live on bravo, sunday through thursday, before we show a segment tell me what it is, tell me what this show is for you. >> i call it a mix between playboy after dark, and wayne's world. okay? we are the only live show in plate night and we are live and interactive, so it was a little larry king live. >> rose: taped around 5:00 o'clock. >> so we are the only ones who are actually live at 11:00 o'clock. anything could happen and anything does happen. we are broadcast, we broadcast in a very small room that is modeled after the den in my apartment. >> rose: whose idea was this show? >> it was my idea. >> rose: because you were head of development? >> actually it was lauren ilaznik, my boss she wanted me to do a on line web show, i it started as a web show after top chef and it would be me and the eliminated chef and maybe tom or pod, and he we would take calls

from viewers at home and it was on the web, i did about 40 episodes of this thing on the web live on the web, michael davis my executive director who was executive director of who wants to be a millionaire and bunch of other great shows he came to bravo and said at this little studio we could be doing andy's show on the air, you should try it out as a late night show,. >> rose: on bravo? >> on bravo, lauren said would you want to do this and that's how the show started. >> rose: she said would you want to do this? >> and i said absolutely, please. >> rose: none. roll the tape h this is an interview in which you are talking to holly hunter and he is playing in. >> it was a pajama party. >> a pajama party. >> we have only had one so far and actually kristen, rachel drawch and showed on their pjs a couple of weeks ago but we had ray fine's pajama party on and he said i will come on but i want to wear pajamas so we all

wore pjs. >> rose:. >> yes, he was on to promote corey elaine. >> rose: roll the tape here it is. >> a pj party up grade we are going to play plead the fifth but play plead the fifth or dare, in other words if one of my guests pleads the fifth on one of these questions you have to do a dare. okay? holly hunter is up first. take a sip of your cocktail. okay. holly hunter. are you ready to plead the fifth? >> oh, yes. okay. holly hunter. >> how many times can i plead? >> once. >> who has been your worst on screen kiss so far? >> i totally plead the fifth. >> rose: then that is a dare. >> (bleep). >> that's all right. we got it. can you attempt a split? >> can you attempt to do the splits? >> right now? >yes. >> see if you can. i don't know if you can. okay. it is a pj party. >> yes! yes!>>

>> so you could do that a split? >> oh, i can't do the split. i she had no idea that was coming? >> no. none. none. we don't preinterview our guests. >> rose: never? >> i love it. we ask them what cocktail they want to drink because we want to make sure we have their cocktail. >> rose: and the audience drinks cocktails. >> yes this edo. everybody is drinking it is like a late night party. >> exactly. you or whoever. >> so i say that was my only pj time i could have buttoned that top button, i think. i feel like at 11:00 o'clock, what you would be doing, if you were hanging out with friends. >> rose: right. >> is having a cocktail so that is why -- that is how that came about. >> rose: and talking about gossip and everything else. >> sure, sure. yes. exactly. >> rose: so this is the dream? >> it really is, it really is. one that i had given up, you know, long ago. >> rose: why do you continue to do the executive job? >> well, that is my other dream,

i mean and i think my time at cbs news so informed by the way everything i am doing now from the interviewing that i did, the time i spent in edit rooms writing scripts, solving problems, booking people, i men it all is comin into play with every part of my job right now, and i like working that muscle. i like producing. it is what i do, and i can't imagine, i took -- when the show went five nights a week which was only five months ago, i decreased my day job a bit i am now just in charge of development and talent and still a executive producer of all of the housewives shows and top chef so i gave up production of about 25 current series. >> rose: how many housewives shows do we need? >> how many housewives shows do we need? i think we need pretty much exactly what we have right now. >> rose: there is a limit as to what -- >> yeah. >> rose: or not? >> i think there is. and i think it is why we canceled the dc housewives after

one season. it is one of the reasons. we felt like we had miami coming up and we had beverly hills and we thought you know what? i think we are done, the pot is full. >> rose: how do they differ from city to city to city? >> it is really interesting. the cities that we choose, there is a definite region facility, regional at this and vibe where you know you are in miami if you are watching that show or new york .. the women are different. they just have a different sense of style, a different way of behaving, and it is really interesting. >> rose: so how did you decide to write this, most talkative. >> most talkative, i have had these stories in me, i have been sitting on certainly my career stories, 23 years of kind of amazing and sometimes shocking -- >> rose: your downward id somebody come to you? you know what you ought to write about your experience? >> it is something i have wanted to do and there was interest simultaneously and i said okay well this is a good combination

of things, because i am very deadline oriented and i need a deadline and i knew if i had one i would write it and i did. >> rose: hoo here is my supposition about you. >> okay. >> rose: you work hard. >> i do. >> rose: you really do. and the people that have the personality you do, there are two things, one is a sense of perfection and one is a sense of dedication to getting it right. >> right. >> rose: and this book was written in four months. >> yes, it was. >> rose: with the help of a very good editor. >> yes. >> rose: which you sat down and said this is serious business. i have to make this work. >> no choice. >> rose: i don't want to write half -- >> oh, no. a i am going to to write it myself and be. it has to be great and i have to love it, so -- >> rose: why did you call it most talkative. >> i was voted most talkative in high school and also voted biggest gossip, hilariously and i just felt it said it all. it is everything i have ever done in my life, and my career, there is a story in there about me in a car trip with my aunt and uncle, i talked in a hair

rush as a mike a until i got iced tea spilled on me to get me to shut up and i think all the stories kind of relate to my mouth and either the trouble it has gotten me into. >> rose: brought you great success or trouble. >> >> rose: and boss sip. there is gossip but you have to draw the line. >> yes, i do. >> rose: and where with is the line? >> well the line is several things. you know, i am a positive person and i felt like i wanted it to be a positive book. i work in this i have, i want to continue working in this industry. and, you know, there are stories i could have written about my time at cbs or my time at bravo that i wouldn't do because there are people that i respect a lot that i wouldn't want to -- sully, that doesn't mean i don't give up all other kind of dish and funny, you know, funny stories along the way. with the housewives, i really wanted to give people who love

that show and are interested in it a real sense of the machinations behind the scenes and what goes on and how we do what we do. while respecting the women who are still very involved in the process. >> rose: you told your mother that she is a character in this book. >> i did. >> rose: what did she say? >> she didn't care for that. >> rose: i don't want to be a character she said. >> i am not a character. is he is also pissed at me because she feels because of me is is losing her identity. it is like i am a full real -- >> yes, i am a real person and now people are -- i this one-dimensional thing. >> rose: let me cash there is also some of the things you suggest, which i agree with many of them, what you called eight life lessons. >> eight life lessons from a guy who does what you do. never say never. >> that's true. >> rose: absolutely. >> yes. >> rose: you say i am the king of proclamations i later contract. i will never tweet or wear one of those polo shirts with a huge polo logo and never write a book. >> there you go.

>> rose: don't poo at work. >> that's a difficult one. i think everyone wrestles with it we don't want to talk about it. i could write a book about this. but, yeah, just, i mean -- >> rose: people when, listen to people when they speak, listen is the key. >> listen, yeah. >> rose: and hear is what i say. >> absolutely. >> rose: if you listen, hear. >> right. >> rose: try to remember people. >> absolutely. >> rose:. >> and by the way i put that on the list because i am the very worst at this. i am terrible with faces i am terrible with names. so that is my growth 11 right there. >> rose: don't screw around with kangaroos. >> kangaroos are nasty. vile things. i got my contact knocked out when i was on assignment by cbs news by a nasty kangaroo. >> rose: my foolproof overnight flight combo in ambien with a glass or two of wine, works like a charm. yes con, consult your doctor if i am on a night flight. >> rose: it knocks you right out and you are okay. >> perfect no hang over when you

wake up. >> you say leave new york in the morning if you going to london. >> take the day flight and bring a good book and you agree with me. >> rose: i do, of course i do. i think it is much better than overnight. get there, go have dinner and go to bed. >> have a cocktail. >> rose: you are on greenwich time. >> it is perfect, yes. >> rose: keep your sense of wonder which i totally -- keep your sense of wonder. always remember where you are from and appreciate moments as they ham. >> absolutely. i amity table and taking it in. >> did you ever imagine when you wrote this book this is where you would be telling america about this book? >> no, i would not have imagined you would have me on this show. >> rose: because you didn't think i would be interested in you or what? because this is a place where we talk about politics, a lot. >> maybe that, add those to the list. >> know bell laureates. >> absolutely. >> rose: but if you look at our show it is a wide range, just like you do and i didn't z sat there and bruce springsteen and everybody else. >> right.

>> rose: that's the group you think of your self as -- >> oh, absolutely. yes, yes. >> rose: the last thing you say here this is the most urgently piece of wisdom i can give you be aware of your breath at all times. >> the most important, you are, i think, as social a person as i am. meaning you are out, you are about, i mean, people come up to you with fire breath and they don't have any sense of it, it is a terrible -- i mean, it is bad, and by the way you don't forget. you think of that person and you are like, like oh they have terrible breath, right? am i alone. >> rose: oh, no is this a book you wanted to write. >> it is absolutely the book i wanted to write. it really is, i am very excited about it. >> what do you dream about now? >> oh, man. what do i dream about now? getting some sleep. sitting by a beach. that is next for me. because everything is good right now. >> rose: yes. you know what is post important

advice i have for you and me too, is, always in a sense and you say this, keep your feet on the ground because people will say great things about you and say bad things about you, but you are responsible for monitoring your own sense, your own sense of self, your own sense of health and not taken in by people who either wish you ill. >> yes. >> rose: or don't care. >> yes. >> yes. it is true. >> rose: good luck. >> thank you very much. >> rose: the book is called most talkative, andy cohen, stories from the front lines of pop culture and that's where he reside. thanthank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org