tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. first of tonight, a conversation with nobel prize-winning economist, his latest text focusing on the growing income equality in this country and halifax all-american. the book is called "the price of an equality." last week, the state education of our next guests film took home the most awards at this year's tony awards. we are glad you have joined us. the economist and the musician joining us right now. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your

pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: joseph stieglitz's a nobel prize-winning columnist who has previous join us on his program. it is a frank and timely assessment of the american economy, how today's divided society in dangers of future. he joins us tonight from boston. let me start, if i can, with the news of the day. your your sense of the elections in greece, how it impacts us here. >> it looks like they pulled

back from the brink of the moment. it doesn't solve anything within europe. the fundamental problem is the bureau is a reconstructed that doesn't work. the remedy to the current problems that germany is pushing a spain, greece, other countries his austerity. bringing the unemployment 25% unemployment. unfortunately, there is no light at the end of this particular tunnel. it will hurt us. one reason for the lack of demand, one of the reasons we are paying for this high price

of inequality. it is going to be impossible to export our way out of this recession. tavis: exporting is one thing, the president has been talking about in sourcing. >> manufacturing has been in strong decline. let's be frank about it. the success we are having, success in increasing productivity faster than the rate of growth in demand for manufacturing goods.

employment is going to go down globally. and therefore, that can't be the basis of the restoration of strength in the economy. tavis: will have to restructure in what way? >> will let from agriculture to manufacturing, and now we're going to a service sector economy, education, health, who will have to home design and cultural activities, a set of things the raise living standards, but it will be different from the economy of the mid twentieth century. >> i have asked this question before but not of the nobel economists. what is the best reason even give me for why american companies are making more money at home and shipping more jobs

abroad are motivated to put americans back to work. if you know you can do more with less, if you know that what matters most is the bottom line, even a ceo who might be well-intentioned who wants to do his part to put america back to work, i can't think of a good reason for doing that if the bottom line is what you're going to squeeze out for the shareholder. >> you are raising a broader issue. a lot of the economic activity in the united states is not designed to increase the size of the american economic pie. a lot of that is going to efforts of getting a larger share of our economic pie. it is one of the reasons why we have so much inequality today. that brings us to the issue, how do we change the rules of the game to make a level playing

field, to make our economy more efficient and less equal. tavis: how does the talk of deficit reduction given the way of doing what you suggest ought to be done? >> one of the reasons that any quality is so bad is that it breaks down social consensus, a willingness for the country to work together, including working together to make investments in the common good. investments in infrastructure, technology, and education. one of the things that most americans don't realize is that we are no longer the country with the most opportunity. it is quite the opposite. we have the least equality of opportunity of any of the advanced industrial countries. the prospects of an american are

more dependent on the income and education of his parents had in any of the other advanced industrial countries for which there is data. that as a result of under investment in education. by investing more in our country and investing in a variety of areas, we will make our economy stronger and we will create more equality. the austerity program is going to reduce the amount that is available, and when you have the top 1% of their own schools, their own parks and public private transportation, they don't depend on this kind of collective investment that the rest of our society requires so much. >> i am not pointing the finger ed you personally or directly, but the argument has been made a thousand times a lot of what we are dealing with now in terms of

inequality and it can be about to back to the clinton years. you offered advice to the clinton years, but you know exactly who i am talking about. they found their way onto the boat during the clinton years, some, culpability do we want to lay at the democratic administration? >> hall at me just mention two things that started in the clinton the administration or least continue from bush on the clinton factor reagan and continued in the second of bush's administration which got much worse. one of them is the reduction of capital gains taxes. people of the top were paying much less than people who worked for a living. we tax speculator is much more than half -- a much less the

people that work for a living. they have an average tax rate of 15%, lower than those whose income is much lower. it is not that they are contributing more to society. the other saying that occured in the clinton a administration was the weakening of financial regulation that continued under the bush administration. the kind of activity that was more directed at moving money from bottom to top. predatory lending in the views of credit card practices. the banks were lending to create new jobs for a stronger economy. by deregulation, we did not make a stronger economy, with a bubble economy of growth have left us in the situation we are in today. >> what you're calling for, that

is to say, more equality and the growth -- >> b. reich has tried for a very long time to sell a bill of uncommon, saying we can only get more quality if we give up economic growth. you shouldn't complain anyway. everybody is going to benefit. nothing can be further from the truth. we have thrown some much money at the top, if it did work, all of us would be better off. people in the middle to there are worse off than they were 15 years ago. david just came out last week, at a level that it was 20 years ago, and no progress has been made for the average american. the fact is, the main argument in live but is that we can have

a better economy, faster economic growth, and a more fair society with less inequality by getting at some of these distortions in the economy. monopoly power, a distorting financial sector. ceos gravel larger and larger share of the corporate high. by doing that, lee will get a better economy. tavis: and the government might have to get involved, that sounds like class warfare to some. hong >> warren buffett said the that we have had class warfare for a long time, and our class has been winning. ist we're talking about here the of the top uses its political influence to get laws and regulations that benefit them and the rest of our

society, that is a fact. and it is a distortion to the economy of which we all suffer. if it says derivatives get first claim, first priority and paid back before anybody else, you're encouraging derivatives, that means the economy is distorted toward these speculative activities that led to the aig bailout. if you have the bankruptcy law that says the student loans can't be discharged even in bankruptcy even if the school does not give the education that was promised, we are making life so much more difficult for those at the bottom, those that are striving to make their way and a rough society. what we need to do is take an objective look at laws and regulations, and the way that they are not only advantage that the top and disadvantaged at the

bottom, the weakening the economy. tavis: i have argued that her poverty threatens our very democracy long term. is that too strong a claim? >> i think you're absolutely right. if our society is going to work, we will have to work together. you can't have extremes either at the top four of the bottom. poverty is an extreme at the bottom end it has been growing in the united states. i was in india not long ago and across their front page was a story about how one in seven americans are on food stamps, they are facing in security, going to bed at least once a muffed punt grief because they can't afford food. the reason they put it on the front pages that they couldn't believe that this rich society

could not provide food security for all americans. at our failure there is undermined, i believe, our future. tavis: the book is called "the price of inequality. at as always, the have you on the program, but next, oscar winner. tavis: please welcome glen hanson to this program, the writer for the lyrics of the broadway an adaptation of his film. it took home a eighth tony awards including one for best musical. you can get a copy o his first ever solo project. here is some of the video for the song.

♪ tavis: it could be mississippi, but where was that? [laughter] good to have you back. the tony awards, eight out of

nine? that is pretty good. >> it was pretty amazing. the day before, they said, we want your tickets. we were in ireland, i was in iceland. tavis: you are holding of that sign. what did you make of these? >> it was so great for us, there was definitely a sense what we carry. it was a very clean experience. the fact that i kept on winning,

when i heard best musical, the one everyone was hoping for, i took 40 blocks and i was singing the great tom with song. ♪ i was walking around the streets and, this town has been so good to us. we made this thing like five years ago in three weeks. it is one of those things that just kept going. what a blessing. tavis: in typical new york fashion, and nobody said anything to you. you're walking and talking and singing. >> who were talking about this amazing renaissance in jazz, he says, i don't want to be out

here. my girl sent me out. i gave him whenever i had in my pocket, he was an amazing guy. tavis: i suspect any songwriter or actor who hears their project called peter nine times concelebrate the victories, but did you like what they did? >> when i first heard that they had sold the rights, i had to say that i was horrified at the idea. i resisted the very notion. they started getting really great people involved. a lot of the worth of those guys have done was not musical, but it was also tied to acting. i started thinking, these people might treated well. this that i will tell you, we're

not going to this respect it. i got to see a few broadway shows, and we don't have a history in ireland as musical theater. i have to say, the stuff i saw, i was taken on a ride. i went on the ride, but i was not crazy about it as is. but then what they did, it was very sensitive. and that was my head biggest fear. tavis: speaking of ireland, since you went there, is it true that you met vaughn l. when you were just a kid years ago besushie b cad hroken down? >> he is the most famous guy in

ireland, i remember driving my scooter homophobe, and the pixies was one of my favorite band of the time. i remember driving along the 4:00 in the morning, how i saw him pushing his car. the fourth level and and there is no one on the road in the middle of the night. he asked if i could give him a hand, i said, no problem. we ended up having this great conversation. i am surprised he knew of of the '60s were. but they had to work with you to and he knew everything about music. it was only years later, i guess, we met each other again in the context of being in bands together. through of the years, has always been a great guy. a really sweet dude.

tavis: the frames must be getting really annoyed with you. a long detour to get back to where the project began. they are going to back you up on the tour for this? >> hi made this record with a few jazz guys in new york the really wanted to make a record with. they have been patient and they deserve a medal. tavis: this is your first solo project, but you have the frame is playing behind you? >> lee will get to play songs together, that is where songs have been. and that down moments with your maitland you are playing. -- with your mates when you are playing. those guys know where to go. and i get to jam event. tavis: if this were going to be

your very first solo project, is this what you thought or hope it would be? are you happy with it? >> very much. songs are a funny thing. they're not intellectual decisions, it is a collection of your musings and it is like a diary. you pick which one will make the most sense and you put out a record. you live by it, but i am very happy with some of the songs. it feels like something i am happy to put out, that is the best you can say about any record that you make. if you can stand next to it, and defended a song on their, you are in good shape. tavis: i love the title. >> i went to jamaica and it was a very important time in my life. i realized that rest is just as

important. it is equally as important. i used to always say to take a bit of rest off when you can get it which is how most people live. i have realized it is very important that when you are resting, turn off the phone, hang out and play football with your mates and get away from that world. then when you go back to work, your fresh for it. tavis: i find that what i get older, the rest makes the work better. the best ideas doesn't come to you when you are exhausted. >> when i was a kid, i imagined my life everything i was going to be, all of these amazing journeys and amazing people like me. it has come to fruition. now a kid is on facebook or testing and i sometimes wonder and worry for the imagination.

but what is happening to our imagination? it needs space, the moment when you are staring into the distance and your brain gets to rise up. sleep is a great thing, but i worry about the modern imagination. i hope the world of the i, this or that doesn't crush our own musings. >> i want you to play us out. tavis: this project is really about relationships? >> very much. how often, the relationship is between yourself and the people in your family. it is not always just a woman. tavis: go for it. [laughter] the new project, i love the title. rhythm and repose. catch him this summer, the

frames are with him on this tour. good to see you, take it away. ♪ ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with

actor morgan freeman. that is next time, we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be