tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with jimmy walker. he is out with the new book about his time in television. it is called "dy-no-mite!" we are glad you joined us for a conversation with jimmy walker right now. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your

pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: please welcomed jimmy walker to this program. he is out with a revealing book called "dy-no-mite!" good to have you on this program. >> good to be here. tavis: impressive. i was about to do my impression, but i did not want to. you must get that all the time. >> the first question is where is the cast. that is the most important

question people ask. tavis: it must warm your heart that people are interested. >> it is interesting that people are still interested. getting the heat all the time, it is good that anyone remembers anything you have done in a positive light. tavis: i want to read something that some of what "good times" was. the you have any regrets about having done that show? >> no, i think it is a good thing to do. i think it is a good base to come from. it helped me learn how to work harder, because when i came from new york i thought i worked hard, and then i saw the way norman worked, and i said, i am not working hard enough, so i think norman taught me that, and the other guys on the show, the

writers, they taught me how to work hard. tavis: you intimated a while ago about the typecasting and people still want to ask about the cast. you still hear dynamite 20 times a day. i wonder if you have regrets about that. >> the thing that some fat out for me is robert and -- sums it out for me, rob reiner. he is walking out, and someone shouts, hey meathead. i just won an academy award, come on. today the dynamite fizzles. get over it. dustin diamond who plays screech comes up to me all the time. you've just got to do what you

got to do. tavis: i think this part of the book may sum up what "good times" was. i still watch it all the time. this is a piece from the njord times -- from "the new york times." live viewers are provided material with immediate identification. whites are given glimpses into that cannot help but weaken artificial barriers. at least one change is no longer in the wind. it is right in front of our eyes. the evidence of good times are its style and personality. it is a struggle for economic and social survival that provides a common denominator for the mass audience.

the dividing line becomes less racial and more socio-economic. never underestimate the power of being silly on television. powerful words from mr. o'connor. can one shown to all those -- one show do all that? >> i think can harness. the silliness he talks about is what left us with tv sitcoms. no more of that is allowed, especially for minorities. you will see that when our show is finished there were no more black sitcoms, because the networks stop doing them, because the network's goal is to make money, so the less problems you have, the better you are, so they did not want any problems, so not until 10 years later did

because the show come on, and the cosby show received heat on the converse of what we did. we were poor, and they said, we do not want to see poor people. then when the cosby show came on, they said, there are no black people like that. now there is no minority people, so you're not going to develop a black star people, because in order to be that way, you have to be able to do take the pie. somebody has to be that wacky dive. if you look at any minority, they are then head of the fbi, the president. morgan freeman has been gone four times now -- has been god four times now.

that is where we are going, so you are not going to develop any black kooky stars. you got what you asked for. tavis: what is the danger of not having those? >> you are not going to have of lack personality any more. you are not going to have a minority -- you are not going to have of black personalities anymore. you are not going to have a minority with clout. not in eddie murphy, not a bill cosby. you have white people who can say, i want is now. you are not going to have that, because there is nobody who wants to take a pioneer -- the pie. >> i see a bunch of silliness in the black sitcoms that are out there, but "good times"found a way to enlightened people and

entertain people all while entertaining. there is more cultural commentary, the paintings on your set --there is more commentary in "good times"than all the black stuff that is out there today combined, but you were able to do that while being entertained. >> we had thought leadership, and you cannot do that today. you cannot do what we did, because norman got away with stocks. you could not do those. tavis: too politically incorrect? >> too politically incorrect. when kospi came on, people said, we need something to counter show, so theyosby got a great writer -- he happens to be black, but he is a great

writer, and they said, write us a counter thespiece. they said, we cannot do this, and they waited until people got fired, and the last people said, we are doing it, and they said, we will do it with white people, and it was married with children. if we had done that with black people, we would still be hiding in the bunker. tavis: what is the take away from that? >> the take away is you are not going to get any more shows. even the silliest things people complain about. in the 1970's, there was a lot of craziness on tv. black people said, we do not want that anymore. now there are no more black criminals on tv.

as strange as it sounds, you lose jobs. tavis: what is wrong with black folks in the business wanting to see themselves up for the mobile -- upwardly mobile? >> you are seeing yourself now, but you are not going to be a star upwardly mobile? tavis: you are saying the only way for a negro to be a star is to be a clown? >> if you look at what is happening with "friends." if that had been a black r girl, out. kramer, is that have been a black role, out. they have to bring something to the table that brings them memorable.

other than that, you are not going to get there. that is the reality. people gravitate to those kinds of characters. they want you when you are sitting in the room and they are starting the show and they say, nobody would be crazy enough to do that you're a good who will do that -- no one would be crazy enough to do that. who will do that? that is the guy. tavis: i know the book is called dwight hen"dy-no-mite!" where did that come from? >> that came from me, and our directors said, i love that, so he showed me how to do it, and i said, come on. somebody is going to stand there in the middle of a show and say

dynamite out of context? people will not be that stupid. he said, yes, they will, and here we are 45 years later. he is the guy who said no matter what, because he had done the honeymooners, the mary tyler moore show, and he said, i know tv, and people buy these stupid catch phrases, and they are going to buy this. norman lear hated it, and he said we just got dynomited out. that is one reason he was out. his idea was to bring up stuff, and it evolved into whatever it a evolved into. tavis: it was the only show he

ever walked away from that he created, and that speaks for itself. talk about the personality conflicts. talk to me about how the cast got along in this show. >> we never had a problem, because none of us talk to each other, so there was never discussion. >> what do you mean? >> we never spoke. everybody had a corner, and you went to your corner, and the director would say, let's meet in the middle, and then he would say whatever he had to say about the show, and then he would say, let's rehearse it, and then we would do it, and that is in it. tavis: it sounds crazy, because if there was anything we love,

it is that you were a family. >> i do not think there was hostility. we just never spoke. i never said a word to janet jackson the whole time she was there. bernadette i talk to, but she was going through some changes because she had some divorce problems. being a kid, you have all these welfare things and you cannot go on the set and you have to have a special mental thing, what ever, so kids are only on the set for a minute, and i have spoken to you longer than i have ever spoken to them. i could not say anything bad or good about them, because i do not know them. >> you are breaking my heart. >> there was no grumble, but we never spoke. tavis: how could you be that

disparate in terms of the way you interacted, yet creates that kind of magic when the light came on? >> i think it came from our directors. it came from the right thing, and in the end, everybody was a professional, and everybody did their thing and went about their business. i do not know what they said about anything. i could not give you their telephone numbers. i could not tell you what kind of car they drove. i could not tell you anything about them. now i know even less about them, so when you find in this business is people will tell you stuff -- you get a call, did you hear what this guy said? who do not tell me. you have got to hear this, or people will walk up to you in the street and tell you about the show. they will start talking to you.

>> the you watch the show? >> i have never seen the show, never watched one minute of it. tavis: why not? >> i have all my guys on the staff, and i was busy dealing with them, and it never came on. it was never one of those things. tavis: at some point did you ever think, i will watch the rebounds or get the box said? >> there will be no box said. i have heard the theme 6 billion times. everybody thinks it is a good time to play the theme when i go on stage. i have heard it. thanks. tavis: i am glad we did not play the music today. you mentioned the character routes. a lot of folks do not know this.

there was another young kid up for that role who went on to become a star in his own right, and we might not have known. >> he was in a broadway play, and norman love him and wanted to get him out of the play, so he had to love somebody into the park until then, so we got a guy until then who was fine, but he said, we are going to try to get rob carter, but then the last day came before we were supposed to shoot. now the guy things he has got it. six days before it starts, ralph is ready to roll. laurence fishburne was the guy who came in, and he was crushed. we have a lot of situations like that, because when john was doing what he was doing, we had

to get people to do those things, and we had an understudy for john, and he came in once a month and did parts and stuff for our show. lou was the guy. tavis: he was on a number of episodes. >> he was filling in, and when john left, lou thought he was going to get that role, but it did not work out. tavis: that is fun going back and seeing the people who were guest stars. a lot of them. >> we had ron glass and irene. i used to work at a place called the african room, which was a showcase room, and i've been came in with her mother. she and -- and irene came in with her mother and stang "good ship lollipop."

she came on the show, and she was a woman. i did not even want to talk to her, because i was embarrassed i was a lecherous guy, and she was 5 years old. tavis: how did you manage your staff? >> i had 31 guys. tavis: you represented a lot of comedians. >> i have louis anderson, david letterman, the list goes on. tavis: at one point you repped leno and letterman. >> both of them along with all these people, so that was my full-time gig, because when you have a staff, people are always

complaining. there is always a problem, so you have people saying, i need more money. i need this. i need that. you are always dealing with complaints. when i had my top three guys, they said, why am i not one of the top three guys. i am better than those guys, and they said, why can you get neome on? whcan you get me the job? my wife needs this and she needs tickets to the dodgers game, so it is always something. every day people go online, and

my right hand man brings me a stack of stuff. why did you do the j -- why didn't you do the joke about the frog? i am doing a lot of things. he wants his bagel -- wait a minute. tavis: you sold the company eventually. good >> i did not sell the company. i was bought out of the company. >> i was being nice. >> helen came into the situation later, and all the people she repped, and she didn't do job getting them work. -- she did a good job getting them work. gebony is not a good name for a management company. we got to get a regular name,

and we have to get people who are legitimate. and we cannot get a guy with a dynamic path representing people -- with a dynomite hat. let me take over. lederman left, because i said if he ever leaves, -- letterman left. we had to pay to get him out. we had a lot of people who were leaving, a lot because of helen because she is tough to deal with. then i find out years later when i got the deal at nbc, i got 10,000. they only got 7 million to sell out. i thought, i think i got screwed. it was that kind of stuff, and i lost leno's friendship.

i love laeno. he has done a bad job on the show of not bringing on new talent. tavis: carson did that all the time. >> he would say, you guys are too old. this is an entertainment show. we are not bringing on new talent. ok, leno, and i always say, and do what was done for you, and he used to be on every show, and he will tell you when he did the show in 1977, he did fine. that is just carson. leno was looked upon as one of the brightest comics around. he complained every day. how come i am not on the show? i am supposed to be one of the

top comics around. get me on the show. i said, i am trying to get on the show. i have to get on the chauffeurs, so finally, david letterman went to carson and thanks for jay leno -- and begged for jay leno. he came from new york to malibu and they did for jay leno -- and begged for jay leno. he is a good comic, but when he finally got the show, letterman said, why don't you announce you are going to be the permanent host of "the tonight show"? helen said absolutely not.

we do not need him anymore. tavis: i saw the movie. >> you saw kathy bates. that was understated. tavis: sadly, my time is up, and i have not begun to scratch the surface on all you will find on this smemoir. you will be entertained. you will find stuff you did not know, a lot of good trivia. i think you may want to check it out. good to have you. >> an honor to be here. tavis: until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org.

tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with that is next time. -- a conversation with white henry on his new film, "beasts of the southern wild." that is next time. we will see you then. we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more.