recently it has really crumbled under the pressure from the zetas and they have been pushing west. the guadalajara area has been traditionally controlled by the sinaloa (sp) cartel and the zetas are pushing in and .., you know, they are calling head lesd bodies, piles of headless bodies, last month 26 bodies in the downtown. >> rose: so what question do you most want to uncover? answer? >> i would like to know, i with would like to press fast forward to the end of pena nieto's term and see exactly was the violence reduced and was it reduced in a way in a corrupt way or legitimate way where the institutions, the police and court systems truly built up and truly were functioning. >> rose: can it be done and if if he did it how did he do it? >> these are the really tough long problems that have defied

mexico for years. >> rose: is there some sense that there is a wholesome elements within the pre that says we want to prove that we can be an effective force? >> > for the future of mexico? >> i think -- >> rose: and not fall into the traps that we have easily seen there? >> i think there is a class of sort of young professionals, who want to serve in government but didn't want to serve under a conservative government i think pena nieto has a group of these smart young people around him, the question is, will they have the influence and the say that they did in the campaign and you had to run a campaign, can they run a government? and if some of these young people, many of them american jailed or educated in the early institutions of mexico and abroad, if they can really have a say and a power that would be very interesting to see, and these are the ones who recognize that they have

lost. they have lost two elections, and so there is this sense that six years from now, we may not -- it is not going to be the old days where we -- that we picked the candidate and everything was rigged and we won. >> rose: right. >> now there are elections and we need to a certain degree have something to present to voters at the end of our term if we want to stay in power. >> rose: it is a tough assignment. >> very good. >> rose: where is your pass, where does your gas haitian come from? is it just a good story. >> it is a great story. and as i looked at a f different aspects of it, i don't live in mexico like these guys. >> rose: you are in mexico city? >> mexico city. i sort of drop in to milk zero can, mitch zero can, you can sort of see .. boy there is a certain microcosm of one part of the problem in mexico, and tijuana was a place where there was some successful law enforcement and actually reducing public violence and the

police chief was getting a lot of credit so i went to look at that in some detail. and it it was sort of disillusioning but interesting. it is not far away and sort of presses upon us, i grew up in southern california so i was in mexico as a kid, i loved the country, actually, i mean, i would go there on my vacations still. >> rose: still? >> still. a lot of these tourist places, cancun, oaxaca really haven't been hit by the violence and even yourself you can go to mexico city and spend a week there and not realize that this country is in a serious -- >> rose: yes. >> even monterrey i was just there a couple of weeks ago and for the election, i was covering some election stuff there, and i was remarking to my colleagues, you know, if you were blindfolded and dropped into the middle of monterrey, right now and not knowing where you were, you wouldn't have this sense of bullets flying and people being kidnapped and so forth. it is very almost under the radar what is going on.

>> rose: i mean a little bit, pardon me, is like the wild west, isn't it and that is part of what makes itñi a story that makes it a story for movies, makes it a story for -- >> i mean the fascination, i have been in mexico or 11 years, i first arrived at another time, perhaps with the what is caught this the glamor are the massive godfathers who, you know, they are making billions of dollar and they disappear in a puff of smoke. >> rose: get in jail and get out of jail. >> get in and out of jail. i mean, they have private jets and tigers and all of these kind of things but more recently the massacres we have seen, the tragedy really has become a human tragedy of epic proportion, again and again, i go to talk to the mother and families of people wh who have n killed. >> rose: you story of an 18-year-old let off an never seen again. >> this kind of tragic things but i think it is very important hot just to understand mexico and not just for these details

of severed heads, what is happening in mexico is a case model of what could happen in many countries. there are many countries around latin america and around the world with similar conditions, with a lot of alienated people in ghettos and so forth who can be recruited into criminal organizations with money of organized crime and people ready to form militias paramilitary groups and very weak democratic governments, now i arrived in mexico the day before vicente fox took power. >> rose: 2000? >> 2000, sell weigh the end of 71 years of the pre and this great optimism about democracy, the same celebrations we are seeing in egypt or libya, now you are aware of countries around the world of what could happen with these democracies. >> rose: thank you all. pleasure. thank you, charlie, great to see you. thank you. see you again.

captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> rose: funding for charlie eroseroas b penvided by the pco-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. and american express. additional funding provided by these funders. nd by bloomberg, a providcoer f mulmenddi aa news and information services worldwide. be more, pbs

tavis: good evening from los angeles. tonight, a conversation with frank gehry, one of the most important architects of showtime. this fall, he is releasing a new web based program that could revolutionize design. we are glad you joined us. conversation with frank gehry coming up. >> every community has a much to melissa king boulevard. it is a cornerstone reno. it is a place where walmart stands together with your community. >> and by contributions to your

pbs station by viewers like you. thank you. tavis: pleased and honored to welcome frank gehry to this program. he has put his stamp on the world of design. some of the most well-known structures around the globe. so much to get to in this conversation. frank gehry, an honor to have you on this program. >> honored to be with you. tavis: i have tonight and tomorrow night to talk to you. i cannot do justice to your life and legacy with two shows. i want to start at the

beginning. i have been thinking for this, knowing you are coming to see me. i have been thinking how to squeeze so much into two nights. those of us who are fans of your work in l.a. and around the world know something about your design work. so few of us know about frank gehry. with your accommodation, i would like to talk about you. you were born in toronto. how did your family make its way here? >> it is a sad story. my father was in canada. he was not an educated. he did not get high school. he grew up in new york. there was one famous person in our lives. she signed his affidavit of birth, it was ellen roth.

i never met her. he was doing slot machines and pinball machines when i was a kid. they were in our basement, wherever we were. he was moving them around. it was made illegal in canada. it was theatatly 10's. i w was in high school. he tried other businesses. he failed. he got a heart attack. his brother brought him out to l.a. to cool out. he was broke. he became a truck driver for yankee doodle pop company. i got a job in the valley. i went to night school.

i lived on the corner of ninth and burlington. it is still there. the building is still there. mom wanted to be a lawyer. her parents emigrated from poland. they did not think women should go to college her brother was sent to college. i think he went to law school. he never practiced. he was a playboy. he was not interested in that. she regretted it all of her years. when they moved here, she got a job in a department store. she moved up to the drapery

department. tavis: candy to drapery. >> she became known, the holly of holly carter hale. i ran into him. he said, is your mother, did she work in the prepared department? i said, yeah. she was legendary. pat nixon worked at the broadway hollywood. tavis: richard nixon's wife. we have two famous people from their past. >> and never met her. momma was tough. she went to night school. she got her aa degree.

she was studying law. she was interested. she got me into classical music. she got me into art. there was a story that my father won an award for window dressing in a grocery store in toronto. he got a national award. i always thought that was whatever. folklore. two weeks ago my sister found a book of my father's on window dressing. for stores. i started crying. i could not believe it. tavis: there was creativity in your family. >> his sister became a dress designer. she had a following, not a big

one. it was indigenes somewhere. genes somewhere. crazy. tavis: runs in your dna. you mentioned at los angeles city college. education institution, city colleges, state-funded programs, are under such attack across the country. when the economy gets tight, never mind what we say, we end up cutting education. oftentimes, before anything else. what does it say that one of the world's most renowned architects started out at eliciting college? -- l.a. city college? >> it was interesting.

the only inkling of art was i took a class in perspective drawing. i remember his name. i got an f. [laughter] it really angered me. i went back the next term. i did it over again. i got an a. i guess that was the beginning. i took night classes at usc, i had a cousin down there. in ceramics. the teacher was very well known at the time and still is. he is long gone. glenn made me a t.a. he was building a house with a california architect. he took me there on a hunch.

after that, he enrolled me in usc architecture class at night. i suspect he paid for the tuition. i was not able to. i did really well. that was the first inkling. tavis: when you say it was the first inkling, when you did well at usc, let me back up half a beat, what do you recall about the prospective class -- that perspective class? what made the difference? that is the first sign he were passionate enough to go back and get it right. >> i think it was the teacher. he realized i failed for other

reasons than skill. he took me back. it worked. i think he was a guy who was respectful. he could have said, forget it. that happened to me at usc. i took a night cuss and architecture. they put me into second gear. -- year. the teacher brought me in and said, this is not for you. tavis: i was going to ask you about that. >> he became the architect for the airport. he worked for lax. i used to run into him after he

said -- i know into a sink in. -- what you are thinking. it was stupid. i teach at yale. you cannot play god. in a class of 10 really bright students, not all of them are what i do. nor should they be. there is a variety of parts to architecture that people can make a goodin thand contribution. it may not be doing what i do. tavis: i suspect anyone who is successful or has become successful, whatever that means, i suspect everyone of us has a story of someone who told us,

you are not going to make it. you just shared yours. how did you process that? you were fortunate enough to run into the sky later in your career. he had to come face-to-face with here gift. >> he might still be around. tavis: hud did you process someone telling you, you and not going to make it? >> by then, glenn had promoted me. the architecture school teacher promoted me to second year. i had already tasted blood. approval for making something. i said, i do not care what you

say. i am going to do it. i already had a bit in my mouth. tavis: how much of being an architect has to do with the approval of others? i ask that because i can see an architect at his or her drafting board, where of a use it, and the setting out to design something you think makes sense. how much of it has to do with whether or not the people like what you do? >> it is the point of the profession. at first, you are not known. people trust you or hire you based on their impression.

as you produce stuff, that has some juice in it, you win an award, you come to the table with a little different power, so to speak. there is not -- and never abused that power. i never think of it as something, fair game. i did not. you are at the mercy of people's taste. i think that once they are on board, once they hire you and they know what they want, it goes fairly smoothly. you have to worry about

deadlines come and meet obligations. -- deadlines, meet obligations. that is like, you have to put your shoes on in the morning. it is stuff you have to do. it is a moment of truth when you make a move. it is an intuitive thing. you are responding to all of these things. there is a lot of information to respond with. i think the profession is undervalued a lot. most of the buildings built in the world i would not call architecture. it's good to of this city, -- you go to every city, you see better or worse versions of things at home. those models seem to be easier to assimilate. there is a lot of denial. most people complain about the city. when i did the first models of

disney hall, the newspaper said, a broken crockery. i get that all the time. something in the paper said kill the american architect. once it is built, they go on with it. i did disney hall years ago. it is great. everybody likes it. musicians like it. i have not been asked to do another one. [laughter] tavis: since we are talking, basically, about critics, people who may not like your work. there is no guarantee that everybody is going to like your work. >> there are many people who do not. tavis: there are two or three

things i know that critics who do not like your stuffs a consistently. i wonder what your take might be. that you oftentimes build these designs, these pieces that do not fit into the neighborhood. they stand up. -- out. number two, often times they have features that are functionalists. -- functionless. how do you deal with that response to your work? >> there is the blogger class that has happened. people say anything. before that, people still said anything. reporters did not want take the time to go look at stuff. i am pretty well known by the

people who know me, know my work, they would say i american textualist. i pay attention. i am -- i am a contextual list. i pay attention. i am respectful of my neighbors. i was also raised to not talk down to people. she made that point me really strongly. if i were to talk down to the neighboring buildings, i would copy them. ahat is what people saiy, specialist in washington d.c.. -- especially in washington, d.c. the other 2/3 it is developer buildings.

i am very careful. inilbung's working.boutwo th'g. i spend a lot of time on classical music, with the man who ran the l.a. phil for years. he taught me about classical music over a period. basically, when you go into a theater, the important thing is the connection with the actor. you have been on stage when it does not happen. when the building does not allow it to happen. you have been on stage when it does. it makes a big difference. i focused on that issue. the audience connects with the orchestra. the orchestrfeels it. when they play good, but the

audience expresses it. they did not realize it. the orchestra feels it. it builds a relationship. that is one of the important things. the acoustician, he calls it psycho-acoustics. i think that is true. disney hall has a wood veneer that is douglas-fir. it looks like a cello. the wood means nothing acoustically. it could be plaster. psychologically, people think they are in a musical instrument. it feels good.

those are real issues. tavis: you mentioned the art and music. what is the relationship between art and music to your architecture? >> well, you know, a film ahead with all kinds of things, littered -- i fill my head with all kinds of things, literature, i have been looking at art since i was a kid. i have spent a lot of time with artist. they are my family and friends. i have spent a lot of time with classical music. which i love. i love the sciences. i spent a month at princeton last year in the microbiology department. [laughter] i am curious about stuff.

that is what fills your head. where it comes out, who knows. tavis: but if you put the right stuff in. >> there is a relationship between all of the visual fields and architecture. what i took away from my heart life -- art world life is the right to be intuitive. i see my friends coming out of school. they were trying to justify, you have to do this because of that. there are so many reasons to rationalize and justify. it is irrelevant. you can make lots of forms work for lots of things. i call it the moment of truth. for lots of things. i call it the moment of truth. the artist