he's done a very good job in the last three weeks not neutralizing the medicare disadvantage, at least minimizing it and they've been very very effective. they have a huge challenge in the horizon. he's not leveling about the american people about taxes. he's proposed over $4 trillion of tax cuts. he's said it will not lose revenue. he will broaden the base and it won't change and it will be based on rich people. that is impossible. that is totally impossible. and i don't think you get away from now until november 6th with that sort of disingenuousness on that issue. they'll have to address that as well as the medicare issue and it will be hard, very hard. >> rose: scott, you talked to paul ryan today about some of the things he said last night. there's a real push back from republicans and from ryan on that, as i understand. >> well, that's right. one of the things that he said last night in his very well-received speech here was

that the american government debt, of course, as we all know, was down graded by standard & poor's and he seemed to payment that as a reflection of the president's economic policies. when our researchers at cbs news went back and looked at standard and poor's statement, the only party that they claimed in this statement was the republican party in the congress saying that due to actions of the republican party in the congress, they had to reevaluate the credit rating of the united states. i brought that up to congress ryan today on the cbs evening news. and he pushed back on that. he said well that wasmented t he -- wasn't the way he saw it. there were a number of things in his speech last night that fact checkers looked at, and looked at the stats at and he gave a forceful defense of his speech earlier today. >> rose: scott thank you for joining us. we know you've had a long day. thank you very much. >> well you've had a long day too, charlie. we both started on cbs this

morning. >> rose: we did. >> and thank you very much. it's great to be with you. >> rose: thank you very much. mike, here's what intrigues me about mitt romney. here's a man who stands a very good chance of becoming president. it's an even race. he comes out of this convention with this election of a vice president running mate and all those arguments you can make for him. he became more humanized tonight. what happened between the loss in 2008 and this moment tonight of victory? what did he say to himself? what did he do, how did he go from not a very good race in 2008 to a successful race so far in 2012? >> well, i think he started quoting popeye a lot of. i sat down with him after 2008 and we talked about it a little bit. i was a critic of that chain. he said if i run again and he wasn't sure at that point, i'm going to be me. and i am what i am. and that's why i wrote the book and i think within the vestitue

and a candidate with mild appeal, i think he did that. he is a bit more ring wise about it. it's a skill to be through a crazy base nine map kind of world. finally one of the reasons he won this time, even though he didn't win last type, he was kind of the guy who came in second and the republican party the way we work that's very helpful. it gives you money base. you're famous. so in the early polls you do well so you don't have to go and run around and dodge ice beggars and caucuses where the other candidates have to do and get in trouble. even though he lost last time it gave him skills and experience going forward and a good position. finally liberty to go out and kind of be himself and it worked. he has the most valuable thing in politics right now, the republican nomination against a president in trouble. we've got about an even race here and it's going to be a barn burner now. >> rose: what will decide

this race, al? >> whether mitt romney he gets to 47 or 48 automatically. it's a tough slog to get to 50 in this race. i think he will get there. he's never going to be reagan but at this stage in 1980, people were even more pessimistic about the country, certainly much more negative about the incumbent president. they said the challenger has to meet a threshold. and it took reagan a while but he met it and really eclipsed it. i think the threshold for romney again is going to be whether he really can relate to those struggles out there, that every day challenge that people face on jobs and the economy and a future. the rhetoric was fine tonight but i don't think it was convincing but he has seven more weeks and he has an opportunity to do it as mike just said. >> rose: but it was better off coming out of this convention than going into the convention in terms of that. mike? >> i think so. >> yes.

>> no, no, the convention had value to him. now we'll have another convention about mitt romney and a bunch of advertising. i think al's on to something. he's got to convince people he's got a plan they can believe. but then the swing voters in that deep down middle class, that last 2% who don't really dislike president obama. of them like him. they just wonder if he can do the job. they believe that mitt romney has in his part to put them first when he's delivering economic results. >> rose: go ahead. al i'll close with this with both of you. in the end what convinces that you have a plan or that somehow you have enough skill, you have enough determination, you have enough, some x factor. >> i think they're together. it's got to be a plan people believe and to believe the person who came up with the plan with a confidence to deliver. if people think their economic lives in the middle class will be better with mitt romney they're going to re-elect -- they're going to elect him and not obama.

if they have too many doubts and obama is able to change the subject with the advantages that the democrats have, 10, 12 years ago this race wouldn't be this close, romney would be ahead. president obama has that advantage. he might be able to squeak through. >> rose: what are the advantages he has, al, president obama. >> obama has a couple advantages. mike says the demographics certainly work in his favor. i think he's probably a slightly better candidate than mitt romney. i think, i'll tell you one advantage he does not have that they had last time. i think this, i think the romney campaign is a pretty darn effective group. they've coherent, they seem to have fewer factions than some campaigns have had and i think they are more, they are at least a match for team obama. now, it has to be said, everything mike said about the primaries are right. they beat an incredibly

weak field. when they go against broke it's welcome to the nfl. >> rose: on that note thank you very much al hunt, thank you very much mike murphy. >> sure. >> rose: a pleasure. >> thank you. >> rose: i go now to bob white, a long time friend of the mitt romney and also mike leavitt is an adviser to mitt romney. earlier this evening, bob white spoke about the governor's commitment to service and their work at bain capital. as i said mike leavitt is a former utah governor and leader of mitt romney transition team. i welcome you both. thank you for joining us at a busy time. bob white, speak to me first about this man that is your friend and you have been known so long and whether you believe that he accomplished the objective of showing a side of him that you perhaps know but the country does not yet know. >> i think he did.

i think mitt romney was terrific tonight talking about what he would do, talking about what he has seen -- talking about the challenges we have and real solutions and restoring the american dream. mitt has been a friend for a long long time. as i spoke tonight, i wanted people to understand not only the accomplishment that people heard about being a successful businessman, turning around the olympics when they were very broken being very successful -- the budget deficit and doing well in jobs. but instead wanted -- bain capital to do that, give something back, he wanted us to do that as much as we could. and what i talked about, not only financially supported various children's causes, it was designed to give money where people from our organization

would spend their time. so it was designed again to help get us to be involved in our community. so i think what the governor says and what many of the other people who spoke said -- i've known for so lang a lot of people have not yet seen. i was deleted -- delighted with what the governor said. so many people who never spoke before coming out and talking about their personal relationship with this very special person. >> rose: as you know there are polls that show that they think the governor could handle the economy better than the president but that the president cares more about them than the governor. that he understands them more. do you think you can overcome that impression? >> well, i think that's true. i think -- i think quite frankly

tonight was -- america getting to know more about the person mitt romney. so we now come out of a convention with i think a great momentum, exposure of governor romney that many have never had. i'll take that message across the country of not only what the governor will do but who the governor is. so yes, i actually believe that we'll be able to communicate that. when people know that governor romney and the mitt romney i've known for 30 years, they'll understand he's a very compassionate and caring person. i think that will be -- >> rose: you and i have known each other for a while and had many conversations together about public policy and other issues including golf, but you have gotten to know mitt romney more i think now than you had even though you knew him before as a fellow governor. what is it you have learned about him in this arena, the competition to be president of the united states? >> well first may i say like

bob, i've known mitt a long time. if people want to know mitt romney they just needed to watch tonight. the man that i saw tonight portrayed his family by the bedside of a child, to be able to be with a family in a moment of need, to be with a person when they were unemployed and needed help. that's the mitt romney i've known for a long time and i'm so glad america gets a chance to see it. they've also had a chance to see his passionate feeling about the fact we can turn this country around and i've seen him in that setting as well. i've seen him turn the olympics around. we were governors together. i saw him turn the state of massachusetts around. i know this man, i know he can do it and i'm delighted the american people had a chance to see both of those sides of him tonight. >> rose: how does he convince the american people who have doubts about the president based on the kinds of things you raise, that the president had not been able to achieve all the promises that he made and the economy is still in trouble. how does he make that sell to the american people as he leaves

this convention? >> i just suggest, i think that sale has been made to the american people. they know this american economy is not doing what it needs to do for america to maintain its leadership in the world. they know that americans greatness is not being manifest right now and we can do better. and i believe that tonight they saw a leader that can do that. i'm delighted they got a chance to see it and feel it. we'll have another six or seven weeks now with the campaign they'll see it. i think their understanding of the need for a change is inherent in the hearts and minds of americans across this country. >> rose: then i would ask mike or i'll ask you bob, why is this race so close, then? >> well i think it's close because running against an incumbent president, and frankly we're asking the american people obviously to make a difficult decision and that is to say to the incumbent president, you haven't done the job. it's now time to get someone new

and i think the next six weeks that will be the basic question in the minds of the american people. is it time for us to renew the contract on a coach that hasn't allowed us to win or is it time to find a new coach and find a new way to win. >> rose: bob white, you know that washington has been caught up in the throes of the country to come together as well as the legislative and to solve the country. people wonder if mitt romney has that skill to get people who seem to be on principle at loggerheads, to come together and make compromises that has to do with spending cuts and revenue but on deep issues so that the country can get back to

where it was. ar aisle with real solutions to real problems and he was able to promise an awful lot of the very important things that needed to be done there that was exactly the kind of cooperation you're talking about. he's applied the leadership, you know, that he's learned in the private sector, and at the olympics. and then went into the government sector as a governor in a democrat state and was able to accomplish much. so i believe he has leadership skills and he cares about america and will find both sides

of the aisle who are willing and ready to face the tough challenges that we face and accomplish a tremendous amount. >> rose: thank you for joining us on a busy and noisy evening. i know you both have much to celebrate this evening so i thank you for coming here to talk with us on this program. >> thanks charlie. >> rose: thank you very much. we go back to mike murphy with this question, mike. so where does he go now? where does have campaign go and how should they use the time between now and the first debate? >> well, i think one thing is that the absolute manhattan project should no longer be fund raising or trying to fit in that extra rally in cleveland, ohio. this was one of really four shots mitt romney has of the american people to make his case

eyeball to the camera without a lot of filter and the next will be these debates, i hope they're putting attention into this. if romney wins the debates i think he'll win the election. beyond that he's got to go out to about the eight or nine states is what this thing is all about and really start connecting to folks both through television appearances, that's the great amplifier locally but actually getting out there and talking people. i hope they do mitt around some tv shows, loose format. i think there's more information about mitt that's out there. it's good information, keep going. particularly lay out policy. policy is an advantage in the campaign. how you talk to people. it doesn't have to be complicated policy to get the policy writers, "the washington post" is becoming a conservative and like it. it's got to be ideas that inspire people. that's how you get them to listen. >> rose: do you believe, you have represented mostly, you have advised mostly republicans. how many democrats have you ever advised. >> only my mother, the precinct leader back on the east side of detroit once. but no, i'm a partisan

republican, absolutely. >> rose: did she rehire you, your mother. >> no. she doesn't take my advice, believe me. >> rose: when you look at this campaign, i asked earlier to both you and al hunt, where this campaign will go. you said that if he wins the debate in your judgment, then that's a time to show when you're there mano a mano that you have the right stuff. suppose that's an even draw. what would be the determinant after that. >> you're slogging it out in all the states which you have to do anyway. but the debattle are important because people are so cynical and they have a reason to be about political communication. they don't trust the media, they don't trust political commercials, all that stuff has an impact. but debates they think okay i can size everybody up that's important. going out into the right states and having a message, keep adding new information, keep showing benefits. i mean this thing is going to come down to whether or not

romney can carry a state one click outside the usual republican comfort zone. iowa, wisconsin, maybe a colorado or nevada. he's got a take a state in the west and a state in the middle and win ohio, florida and virginia and maybe even up here in new hampshire is now a swing state. the targets are set. he knows his demographics. he's got a problem with college-educated white women. you hard a lot at the convention about that. overall he's just got to break through and take that advantage on the economy from the seven or eight points people say he would be better on the economy up to 12 or 14 points. that's a hard number to move but that's what he got to do. >> rose: does the republican brand hurt him or help him in terms of the new emerging demographics. >> it hurts him. the last two points, maybe the last three between 46 and 49 or maybe up to 50, depending on what the small candidates get to win, are voters who are demographically more of a challenge for us and who tend to like president obama.

so mitt's got to close not really with obama bashing. he's got those votes. he's got to get people who like president obama but have to feel okay about letting him go as clint eastwood said and convince him that mitt will do a better job making the middle class and making poor lives better. that's the chore, and if he can do that, he's going to do well. if not, obama will be re-elected. >> rose: mike, you're in my debt. thank you for coming here. >> always like my old friend bob white who knows mitt romney better than anybody in the world. i'm glad he spoke. >> rose: thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: joining us now from convention center, mark halperin and john heilemann. there is still noise in the background but both give me your impressions. you've been following this campaign more intently than most people of this night for mitt romney. did he help his case? >> charlie, i think that he helped his case but only

modestly. i thought there were effective parts of the speech tonight. i thought there were some mediocre parts of the speech tonight. i thought it was fine and i think you're hearing that from a lot of republicans in reaction. you're hearing a lot of it was good enough. he did what he had to do. he didn't soar over the bar and you're hearing a lot more people saying thing like marco rubio was the better speaker tonight and that clint eastwood will be the bigger story tomorrow. that's sort of a joke but not insubstantial distraction. and these going to be a lot of news coverage around the weirdness of that event that will take away to some extent what romney did. i think about biography, talking about his family and his father, talk big his relationship with ann was all very effective. i thought most of the rest of the speech though was not particularly inspired. and i don't think, i think in some sense, some of the where you're going to take the country, some of the specificity, some of the policy stuff that a lot of the voters

are genuinely undecided in the country and want to know how mit has a vision of the future that's different from barack obama. i think they've been caught a little bit short wondering where the beef was on more substantive matters. >> rose: mark? >> i think there's always the question of how many people will have watched this speech live versus seeing news coverage. i think if people watched the video tape that played before clint eastwood and saw the speech in its entirety i think governor romney did a pretty decent job of laying down that biographical foundation. not a plutocrat and not someone to make profits for himself and his part nurse as a result of having pea -- partners as a result of losing their jobs. most people did not see the video played during the prime time broadcast television and some people might not have watched the whole speech but rather will see news coverage. john pointed out some elements which will probably make the news coverage less than what the

total package was. it did lay down something of a foundation. people, some republicans who said they should take that biographical video with people talking about mitt romney and governor romney talking for himself and buy enough air time as they can for it. i think it's probably, this is probably not the thing that transforms the race but it's probably good enough to let him go forward and try to figure out a way to make himself more likeable, present a different image of himself and the country. >> one of the great questions people will ask inside this campaign, if they lose, and there are a lot of things that are going to affect the outcome. but really the biographical video was really good. and they will second guess themselves forever about why they didn't put that video in prime time and not have clint eastwood spend really ten or 12 of the most bizarre minutes that anyone's ever seen from a convention stage i would say in the television era for sure. there's not been much that's weirder than those minutes and

they really were squandered especially when they had that video which was incredibly good. >> rose: you both agree the video was incredibly good. >> yes. >> one get that's begged both in the video and many of the presentations that occurred earlier is where was the decision, why was the decision made earlier not to take bain on the way they did. not to take bain on the way they did. why not bring on the people who were incredibly and effective tonight. i don't really know the answer, i haven't had time to report it out but if they done it leading up to tonight, perhaps they would have been able to lay down more of a predicate and rebut implicitly all of the attacks over the last several months. i don't know why they didn't do it. it will be interesting if they follow through. will they put that video or a version of it out. will they take some of the people who spoke tonight and make them part of the messaging campaign. >> rose: do they have a ton

over money to carry that message forward. >> they have a lot of money for sure. they have more money than the obama campaign have. they have the financial advantage going forward. the obama campaign had the advantage all summer long, although the republican super packs, if you combine that with the romney combine spending outspent the obama team. obama versus romney straight up the obama had the advantage this summer but in the fall romney, who has been not able until recently to raise money for the general election, he's going to have a lot of money to do their work. i just don't know how much more positive stuff you're ever going to see from them or whether we're going to have as most people predict. send pretty quickly to an ad that is almost exclusively. this is what we're going to here about the obama campaign. >> rose: he's always been a stand up guy. what happened tonight is that

what they planned or did something go wrong? >> i did some reporting before tonight about how this came about and what the plan was for him. i want to do more before i tell you definitively what happened. i believe what happened was this was something that they basically said clint eastwood is a performer, he knows what he's doing and there was no vetting of his performance whatsoever. there have been reports by other rep peubl the people were back stage not liking what was going on because he took so long. my reporting will be true that he would simply assume he would come out and do something positive. he is a politically minded guy and not do what many, compared to a banned theatre performance. >> talking to an empty chair is like surrealist dada theatre talking to an empty cheer. he was definitely not on the

teleprompter. the teleprompter had stage directions on it while he was talking. so that was off the cuff as best as anyone could tell. i imagine there might have been, if he said look i got this, i know what i'm doing, there might have been a little fear in the campaign saying that clint eastwood, we're going to try the script. >> rose: thank you john heilemann, thank you mark halperin, we'll see more of you in north carolina. it's been a fascinating evening. thank you for joining us. we'll see you from north carolina next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications ybaption media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org bad dreams again, barbara?

fingerprints, blood on your clothes? milton: now, sometthing?