driven oil imports to a near 20-year low and natural gas production to all-time high. and renewable energy production has doubled. of course, we need a lot more new jobs. but there are already more than three million jobs open and unfilled in america. mostly because the people who apply for them don't yet have the required skills to do them. so even as we get americans more jobs we have to prepare more americans for the new jobs that are actually going to be created. the old economy is not coming back we've got to build a new one and educate people to do those jobs. [ applause ] the president and education

secretary supported community colleges and employers in working together to train people for jobs that are actually open in their community. even more important after a decade in which exploding college costs have increased the prop out -- drop out rate so much that the percentage of our young people with four year college degrees has gone down so much that we have dropped to 16th in the world. in the percentage of young people with college degrees. the president student loan reform is more important than ever. here's what it does. you need to tell every voter about this, it lowers the cost of federal student loans and even more important, it gives students the right to repay those loans as a clear fixed low percentage income for up to 20 years. [ applause ] now, what does this mean?

think about it. it means no one will ever have to drop out of college again for fear they can't repay their debt. and it means that if someone wants to take a job with a modest income, teacher, police officer, if they want to be a small town doctor in a little rural area, they won't have to turn those jobs down because they don't pay enough to repay the debt. their debt obligation will be determined by their salary, this will change the future for young americans! [ applause ] all these issues i know we're better off because president obama made the decisions he did.

now, that brings me to health care. the republicans call it derisive leo bama care. they say it's a government fay over, a disaster if we just elect them they will repeal it. well, are they right? let's take a look at what's actually happened so far. first, individuals and businesses have already gotten more than a billion dollars in refunds from insurance companies because requires 80 to 85% of your premium to go to your health care not profits or promotions. [applause] and the -- bunch of insurance companies have applied to lower their rate to comply with the requirements. second, more than three million

young people between 19 and 25 are insured for the first time because their parents' policy can cover them. third, millions of seniors are receiving preventive care all the way from breast cancer screenings to test for heart problems and scores of other things, younger people are getting them, too. fourth, soon the insurance companies not the government, the insurance companies, will have millions of new customers, many of them middle class people with preexisting conditions who never could get insurance before. now, finally, listen to this, for the last two years after going up at the three times of rate of inflation for a decade for the last two years health care costs have been under 4% in both years for the first time in

50 years. [ applause ] let me ask you something. are we better off because president obama fought for health care reform? you bet we are. there were two other attacks on the president in tampa, i think deserve an answer. first, both governor romney and congressman ryan attacked the president for allegedly robbing medicare. $760 million. same tax leveled against congress in 2010 they got a lot of votes on it. but it's not true. look, here's what really happened. you be the judge. here is what really happened. there were no cuts to benefit at all, none.

what the president did was to save money by taking a recommendations of a commission of professionals to cut unwarranted subsidies to providers and insurance companies that were not making people healthier and were not necessary to get the providers to provide the service. and instead of raiding medicare he used the savings to close the donut hole in the medicare drug program. [ applause ] and y'all got to listen carefully to this. this street really important. to add eight years to the life of the medicare trust fund so it is solid until 2024.

so, president obama and the democrats didn't weaken medicare, they strengthened medicare. now when congressman ryan looked in to that tv camera and attacked president obama's medicare savings as, quote, the biggest coldest power play, i didn't know whether to laugh or cry. because that $760 million is exactly who these dollars, the same amount of medicare savings that he had in his own budget. you got to get one thing it takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did. [ applause ]

this is getting serious i want you to listen. it's important. a lot of people believe this stuff. now at least on this issue, this one issue, governor romney has been consistent. he attacked president obama, too. but he actually wants to repeal those savings and give the money back to the insurance companies. he wants to go back to the old system which means we reopen the donut hole and force seniors to pay more for drugs. and we'll reduce the life of the medicare trust fund by eight

full years. so, if he's elected and if he does what he promised to do, medicare will now go broke in 2016. think about that. that means after all we won't have to wait until our voucher kicks in in 2023 to zoo the of medicare as we know it. they're going to do it to us sooner than we thought. folks, this is serious, because it gets worse. and you won't be laughing when i finish telling you this. they also want to block grant medicaid and cut it by a third over the coming ten years. of course that's going to really hurt a lot of poor kids. but that's not all. lot of folks don't know it but nearly two-thirds of medicaid is

spent on nursing home care for medicare seniors who are eligible for medicaid. it's going to end medicare as we know it. and a lot of that money is also spent to help people with disabilities including a lot of middle class families whose kids have down's syndrome or autism or other severe conditions. and honestly, think about it, if that happens i don't know what those families are going to do. i know what i'm going to do, i'm going to do everything i can to see that it doesn't happen, we can't let this happen.

[ applause ] wait a minute. let's look at the other big charge the republicans made. it's a real doozy. they actually have charged and run ads saying that president obama wants to weaken the work requirements in the welfare reform bill that i signed moving people from welfare to work. you need to know here's what happened. nobody ever tells you what really happened, here's what happened. when some republican governors ask if they can have wafers to try new ways to put people on welfare back to work, obama administration listened, because

we all know hard nor even people with good work history to get jobs, moving folks from welfare to work is a real challenge. and the administration agreed to give waivers to those only if they had credible plan to increase employment by 20% and they could keep the waivers only if they did increase employment. now, did i make myself clear? the requirement was for more work not less. so, this is personal to me. we move millions of people off welfare. it was one of the reasons that in the eight years i was president we had 100 times as many people move out of poverty in to middle class than happened under the previous 12 years. 100 times as many. it's a big deal. but i am telling you the claim that president obama weakened

welfare reform work requirement is just not true. but they keep on running ads claiming it. you want to know why? their campaign posters said, we are not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers. [ applause ] finally i can say, that is true. i cooperate have said it better myself. and i hope you and every american within the sound of my voice remembers it every time they see one of those ads and it turns in to an ad to re-elect barack obama and keeps the

fundamental purposes of work empowerment as soon as we can. [ applause ] let's talk about the debt. today interest rates are lower, lower than the rate of inflation, people are basically paying us to borrow money. but it will become a big problem when the economy grows and interest rates start to rise. we got to deal with this big long term debt problem or it will deal with us. it will gobble up a bigger and bigger percentage of the federal budget we'd rather spend on education and healthcare and science and technology. we got to deal with it. now, what has the president done? he has offered a reasonable plan of $4 trillion in debt reduction over a decade. with 2.5 trillion coming from in spending cuts raises a dollar in

new revenue. two and a half to one. and he has hiked controls on future spending that is kind of balanced approach proposed by the sim tons bowls commission. i think this man is way better than governor romney's plan. first, the romney plan fails the first test of fiscal responsibility. the numbers just don't add up. i mean, consider this, what would you do if you had this problem. we got a big debt problem we got to reduce the debt. what's the first thing? to reduce the debt we're going to have another $5 trillion in tax cuts. heavily weighted to upper income people. make the debt hole bigger before we start to get out of it. now when you say, what are you going to do about this $5 trillion you just added none they say, we'll make it up by

eliminating loopholes in the tax code. then you ask, well, which loopholes and how much? you know what they say? see me about that after the election. i'm not making it up. that's their position. see me about that after the election. now people ask me all the time, how we got four star plus budgets in a row. what new ideas did we bring to washington? i always give a one word answer. arithmetic. [ applause ] in a debt reduction plan, the arithmetic tells us no matter what they say, one of three things is about to happen.

one, assuming they try to do what they say they will do, cutting those deductions, one, they will have to eliminate so many deductions like the ones for home mortgages and charitable giving that middle class families will see their tax bills go up an average of $2,000 while anybody who makes $3 million or more will see their tax bill go down $250,000. or, two, they will have to cut so much spending that they will obliterate the budget for the national parks for insuring clean wear, clean water, safe air travel. cut way back on pel grants, early childhood education, child nutrition programs, all the programs that help to empower middle class families and help poor kids.

cut back on investments in roads and bridges and science and technology and biomedical research. that's what they will do. they will hurt the middle class and the poor and put the future on hold to give tax cuts to upper income people who have been getting it all along. or, three, they will do what they have been doing for more than 30 years, go in cut the taxes way more than they cut spending, especially with that big defense increase, they will just explode the debt and weaken the economy. and they will destroy the federal government's ability to help you by letting interest gobble up all your tax payments. don't you ever forget when you hear them talking about this that republican economic policies quadruple the national debt before i took office in the 12 years before i took office.

[ applause ] and double the debt in the eight years after i left. because it defied arithmetic. it was highly inconvenient thing for them in our debates that i was just a country boy from arkansas and i came from a place where people thought two and two was four. it's arithmetic. we simply cannot afford to give the reins of government to someone who will double down on trickle down. [ applause ] think about this. president obama plans to cut the

debt, honors our values, brightens the future of our children, our families and our nation. it's a heck of a lot better, it passes the arithmetic test and far more important, it passes the values test. [ applause ] my fellow americans, all of us in this grand hall and everybody watching at home, when we vote in this election we'll be deciding what kind of country we want to live in. if you want a winner take all, you're on your own society, you should support the republican ticket. but if you want a country of shared opportunities and shared responsibility of we're all in this together society, you should vote for barack obama and joe biden. [ applause ] if you want america, if you want

every american to vote and you think it is wrong to change voting procedures -- just to reduce the turn out of younger minority and disabled supporters you should support barack obama. [ applause ] if you think the president was right to open the doors of american opportunity to all those young immigrants brought here when they were young so they can serve in the military or go to college, you must vote for barack obama. [ applause ]

if you want a future of shared prosperity with the middle class and poverty declining where the american dream is really alive and well again, and where the united states maintains its leadership as a force for peace and justice and prosperity in this highly competitive world, you have to vote for barack obama. [ applause ] i love our country so much. and i know we're coming back, for more than 200 years through every crisis we've always come back. people have predicted our demise ever since george washington was criticized for being a mediocre surveyor with a bad set of wooden false teeth. and so far every single person that's bet against america has

lost money because we always come back. we come through every fire a little stronger and a little better. and we do it because in the end we decide to champion the cause for which our founders pledged their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor. the cause of forming a more perfect union. my fellow americans, if that is what you want, if that is what you believe, you must vote and you must re-elect president barack obama! [ applause ] god bless you and god bless america! [ cheering and applause ] >> woodruff: president bill clinton 48 1/2 minutes of big speech. 22nd president of the united states putting in to nomination

and i think he -- here comes president obama. you can tell from the reaction -- nobody sitting down. >> ifill: what president clinton did he went down the list and took all out the main republican indictments of president obama and explained them in a way frankly we haven't heard from many others. >> woodruff: bill clinton back to give somebody else a hug. and two of them are just greet knowledge everybody they know. and have a little heart to heart

because bill clinton is making a very specific point. he had a case he wanted to make, he did it in a conversational way, talked about arithmetic and the budget. talking about welfare reform how unhappy he is about the republicans take on that. then pivoted to the choice that he says americans have to make. >> it was effective speech as always too long but effective. for a number of reasons, one, framing. as you said really good at crystallizing you're on your own versus we're all in it together. second, he invites you in, here's why you want to do it. third he takes policy seriously. we have not seen a lot this year and so there was ton of policy, mitt romney did not defend his policy in his speech and he left vacuum open for bill clinton to walk right in, some of the parts i agree with on medicaid. some of the parts, but effective.

>> strongest case i've heard. and in bill clinton's style, make it understandable like policy issues to the lay person. and did it in a way with emotion and with a passion and with an overarching theme that we're all in it together. make it individualism. >> woodruff: and with humor. let's go now down to the floor to ray. >> you know, part way through this speech president clinton referred to himself as a country boy from arkansas. but really he saw everything from risk of command to facts to breezy, funny folksy ev evuncularity and the crowd kept responding he got looser can he smiled more, relaxed more, he was using his hands more then fed him more and he doubled

down. the crowd, yes, you saw when you looked at the floor that they were standing when the president was done. they were standing for the last 25 minutes of his speech. they wanted what he was giving and they were already well primed by elizabeth warren, who also gave a stem winder, a manifesto of her wing of the democratic party's values that the crowd went wild for. very high energy last hour of the convention program. >> yes, indeed. president clinton was there to officially do it but now the mechanics of the nomination are moving forward. >> ifill: it's interesting you were saying the crowd was feeding him because i was thinking it was as if the crowd was hungry to hear from president clinton. been such a build up for his speech and he delivered. >> ifill: say they fed off

each other then. j it was call in response, it was him feeling them out and them giving him an energetic response which made him then amp it up a little bit more. >> one thing he did that i thought was fascinating as privileged on server having been president for eight years was to list the republican presidents who have made a positive difference in the national life and even in his life and totally worked, starting with dwight eisenhower sending federal troops to integrate little rock high school. hive changing. >> my inviting people in. he knows who he has to persuade he knows who the jury is going to make prosecutorial phase. >> ifill: we talked about, pointing out eisenhower behind highway system my favorite line probably when he found his way to get at paul ryan by saying,

it takes some brass to attack something that you did. a guy for doing what you did -- >> always with clinton he's selecting the facts very carefully. medicare thing he counts the 760 billion twice. you can't spend money twice. but it's a campaign speech, he's slippery. some of the stuff he got corrected, medicaid. it's where the democrats talk about the romney medicaid plan. lot of medicare, there are more vulnerable. he understands where that hits them. >> woodruff: so many quotable lines, one of the things i wrote down when he went back the last 52 years he said, republicans have been in the white house nor 28 years, democrats 24. during that time there have been 66 million private sector jobs created. the democrats -- republicans have created 24 million. just guess how many, 42 million. bill clinton the kind of person who brings out those numbers. >> and then when he put his own

presidency in to say, prior to -- 12 years prior to his coming to office the national debt tripled, quadrupled under republican presidents and doubled. bill clinton having produced four balanced budgets, only president since richard m. nixon. >> should be said that growing by a trillion dollars every year under president obama. one of the advantages that democrats have is they have plan to attack. republicans don't have a plan to attack how to balance the budget. >> how do you think the -- i've been looking apt twitter i haven't seen a lot of push back tonight. >> they have embraced bill clinton, becomes a little difficult. they have been talking about bill clinton as one of their best buddy and defender of the free enterprise. >> ifill: about what he said

about that. didn't remember it that way. >> they could tell welfare reform. >> i think it would be mistake to go after the facts they could get entangled. they tack about past four years, seen wealth go up, income go up, seen -- the stretch of the economy is still their core issue and they would be mistaken to go off that. >> woodruff: one other thing, this is president who reached across the aisle tried to work with republicans. republicans dispute that they say this hasn't happened. but bill clinton said, he appointed my wife. >> ifill: what's fascinating, watching bill clinton back in his game is always worth

watching. >> woodruff: now already hearing, seeing speculation how tough it's going to be for president obama to talk. >> i would say, two big features, michelle, clinton better than anything the republicans offer. >> ifill: we'll be back tomorrow night we'll follow next of this which is president barack obama. this ends our coverage of this second night of the democratic national convention. it is charlotte, north carolina, the convention has begun now the roll call of the states. we're going to leave you but you can watch the entire proceeding on our ve stream. i'm gwenn ifill. >> woodruff: i'm judy woodruff. good night. vo:geico, committed to providing service to

its auto insurance customers for over 70 years. more information on auto insurance at geico.com or 1-800-947-auto any time of the day or night. >> c charlie:welcome to the program tonight from charlotte, north carolina, the site of the democratic national convention he. we begin this evening request jack lew. ''s the chief of staff for

president obama. >> different styles president obama will tend to come in a quite tight lawyerly way. president clinton likes to hear more of the discussion, to think things through. they end up in the same place in the sense they have gotten out of the people that work for them everything they know and they're making the decision based on fact and. >> we condition request john podesta former chief of staff for president clinton and director of transition. >> what's really critical is for him to frame the choice about what this election is about. 2 very, very different view tion and approaches to the us economy. he's got credibility about what works and what doesn't. i think he can remind people about what has worked for them in the past and set a path for the future. so i think one of the things that he will do is spend his time talking about the

challenges that president obama faced, the way he responded to them, why those were the right choices. >> charlie:we conclude with jeff sell any of the new york times and john harris of politico. >> i think they're worried about what's going 0 happen friday morning. 9 hours after he finishes giving hi acceptance speech the latest job reports come out. 3 jobs reports will come out before elects day. they're worried about the economy sort of getting away from them and them not being able to sort of keep this race stable. >> charlie:leu podesta, al hunt, john harris and jeff disel any when we continue. >> funding provided by the follow

>> >> charlie:additional founding provided by these funders: >> ch:

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie:we continue our coverage this evening of the democratic national convention in charlotte, north carolina. former president bill clinton commanded the spotlight as he formally put president obamas's name into nomination. central role marked a milestone in the interkrat and evolving relationship. the two have swroafer come the past to fortunately an unexpected alliance over the four years. economic growth and balance budget. the owe bam in a contend for convention speakers to dispel any doubt is best suit today bring prosperity to the middle

class. but as robert you stuart lewis stevens said all speech written or spoken is a dead language until it finds a. >> enduring pessimism complicates the democrats argument better off mow than 4 years ago. new economic data to be released this week makes it unlikely that the unemployment rate will fall in the 9 weeks until the 9 election. jack lew joins me. he speaks to us tonight personal capacity representing the campaign. also with us al hunt. he is my partner for this evening. i'm pleased to have him always. good to have you back at may table even though it's different than the normal. it's normally at night not during the day. having said that, tell me what it is that you think is the

principle argument that the obama administration has to suggest they ought to be re-elected. >> charlie i think the central argument has to do with our vision of the future vs. theirs. the president's record is strong and his vision of the future is one that builds as we say so many times from the middle out. there was the view of going back to tired and broken economic policies from the top down that didn't work, won't work again and aren't good for the economy or working americans. i think we have a pretty central kind of decision for the country to make, which way to we want to go? do we want to go back to economic policies that didn't work and weren't fair. >> charlie:so when we say that, what are we talking about? what specific do you think mr. range of motion nip is suggesting and mr. is suggesting that will not work and make the country worse rather than better? >> let's start with the budget and physical policies. we know we have challenges to

deal with. we recognize we have a serious budget gap to close. look at the way the two sides have proposed doing it. president's plan is balanced plan, everything on the table. a little bit from everyone. uncomfortable but things we can do. their plan is take taxes off the table, don't say that taxes aren't going to be used to reduce the deficit, can you believe down and do $5 trillion of tax cuts to benefit people most wealthy. you take a terrible economic problem and make it much ors. your first adding $5 trillion of new debt before closing the old gap. where are you going to solve that? how are you going to solve what is already a 4 trillion i don't know dollar problem with another 5 trillion-dollar headache. they can eliminate things, education, research and development. that's are things central to our

economic future. >> charlie:here is my question to both of you. the white house is the bullet pulpit, the president has talked about the immediate to explain. ronald reagan would go over the heads of congress to the american people. has the president used that bull pit and if what he says is so much better than what the republicans wanted, why couldn't he get the country's support to overrule the republicans in the house? >> i think the president has been using the bully pulpit. if you look at where we were a year ago, we were in a place where the republicans didn't want to do anything. we put a jobs bill out there had the, a couple more million jobs would have been a good thing for the country. they did extend the payroll tax cut. they did take action without which we would have bad economic conditions. we did that by going to the american people. we do go to the american people.

we will continue to do so. this campaign is about going to the american people. we had an election in 20 he 10 where the balanced power in congress changed. there was a thard eng of positions. there was not any secret the policy of the republicans at that time was to deny the president a second term and block any effort he had to move the country in the right direction. we worked our hearts out trying to reach an agreement. we tried really hard last summer. we came close. they weren't ready to do it. we went out after labor day last year, we're going to go to the american people. this campaign is going to be in the position who is going to make the tee significants going forward. two very different visions how to run this country and where to go. >> charlie:when you hear that, does that reflect the washington you know? >> it does. i think jack critiques the romney problem very well. i would say, however, that i don't think today that the

president has done a very effective job of telling people where he wants to go including some things he has done health care for instance. he enacted this hugely important health care bill. the time the argument got before the supreme court i don't know if the court reads the election returns or not polarity of people thought it was a bad idea. if you look at the speeches last night you saw a series he of very clear presentations that make the case why health care reform was important. you're going to hear more of that tonight. >> jack, i told charlie erl yir i thought the first lady's one the best. i thought was a great speech. i don't think it addressed that issue nor was that her purpose why the next couple years will be different than the last couple. >> i beg to differ in the sense, want appeal the affordable care act. everything the first lady was talking about.

they will be materially changed if the health care is reformed one question you were asking with making the case about health care reform. it was abstract when it was passed. the american poem heard of it as a title, it was an idea. it's now real. >> charlie:but at the same time as you know, in terms of explaining things and in terms of making an argument that resonates, reason cans have made an argument that seems to resonate. when you look at polls and how people see the health care reform, that it's an overreach by government. >> that caringment is made by some of our critics. when i talk to people about health care reform, they start out with a soft idea what it's about. when you ask them how do they feel about having the doughnut hole they used to have spend $600 on their prescription drugs if they were on medicare going away, they feel strongly. they don't want to lose that. a parent whose child did not

have health insurance go back to paying 5 or $10,000 a year. they feel good having. a parent with a child with a preexisting condition, they feel the same way are. >> charlie:referendum on the health care reform passed by the congress, you would be ready to accept that resolve if it was just a referendum on health care? >> i don't think this health care will be a referendum. if you look at the president's record starting in january, 2009, inherited an economy in free fall. he stopped that. dug up. created 4 1/2 million jobs. now on a path where it is not yet where it needs to go but in the right direction. if people have increasing confidence with a little patience it will get there. we believe very strongly that health care reform is part of that, part of the security that american families deserve not just health care reform, the whole package. >> charlie:bill clinton says

we left him a -- we left a total mess, he hasn't finished cleaning it up. so far -- put us back in [laughing] >> can't disagree with much of that. >> charlie:if you read that you would know where it came fr. continuing he said the most important question what kind of country do you want to live in. year on your own winner take all society, you should support the republican ticket. if you want a country of spared prosperity and share responsibility, we're all in this together society, you should vote for barack obama and joe biden. that's pure bill clinton. is it fair in your judgment to the argument made by the the republicans and mitt romney that they want a society which is winner take all rather than shared prosperity and shared responsibility because one of the arguments that came out of that convention was a sense ever community? >> i think if you look at the policies that the romney-ryan

ticket has supported, it is. >> winner take all? >> a policy that doesn't leave a lot for people on their way up. it's very hard on students starting in preschool and elementary school going to college. where is the support that all of us got when we were getting our chance? we're going to deny that to the next generation? it's not fair to senior citizens, medicare into a voucher program. that's not the right thing. we go back to where we were in 1964. >> that's not 4 currency years. >> the idea that there's this magic line when before people can't afford it, the day after they can afford it, i don't buy that. i don't think somebody who is a day younger or a day older is all that different. if the principle is on their own they should bear the risk. that's an important principle. that's the idea behind their medicare proposal. i don't think it's an overstatement. if you combine that with their

tax policy which is generous for people who are wealthy. why would they do that, need to have massive kurts in things that help young people their education, senior citizens with their health care to pay for tax cuts we don't need. when bill clinton was president we had tax rates we think we should go back. >> charlie:if you eliminate bush -- just eliminating the tax just that go back to the bill clinton rate. >> correct. >> charlie:let me change tt idea of the president. you work closely ily with him. you're right there policy and politics meet in the oval office. what do you now know about him that you did not know before? >> that's an interesting question. there's probably a lot of things that fall into that category. i would have to say having the job more often the things i have to bring in are hard. if they're easy they don't come to me. if i can take care of them, -- the job of chief of staff

frequently go in with choices you wish you would better options. the way he looks at hard choices an makings clear-headed decisions is everyday impressive to me. it's a tribute to his intellectual integrity, personal integrity. if i went in and the bearer of bad news had to take responsibility for the choices, it would make not just the job harder but making decisions a lot harder. >> i've known jack lew for almost 40 years. there is no better public citizen, no better dedicated policy person in america than jack lew and a number of republicans would disagree. he has been a top aid to bill clinton. hilary's most important i think advisor at the state department. that's a remarkable record. jack sometimes i disagree with you but boy you are an incredible citizen. >> charlie:howl do you smain that? how have you seen that in terms

of all those roles you have had culminating in chief of staff and maybe notice next if obama is re-elected cabinet -- >> i have had the real privilege to work for some of the great people of our age. >> charlie:but what's the secret to that? what's the secret to be able to work with that many people of different personalities? start with tip o'neal. >> i was going to add the speaker. i grew up in his office. some things i learned in his office you i have never forgotten. treat everybody with respect. take seriously the analysis before the politics. think thank you the problem and make choices based on having done your analysis and you let all points of view be heard and presented. you don't try to preclude one or another idea. >> charlie:how is barack obama different from bill clinton? >> they're very different people. what's similar is more striking than what's different about them.

they are both men who are driven by an intense passion to move this country in the right direction, an intellectual curiosity and capability you're always at the edge of your nonl. they ask that question that gets right to the limit. that's how they think. they are hard-thinking inquisitive men. they have different personal styles. president obama will tend to come in a quite tight lawyerly way, president clinton like to say hear more of the discussion to think things through. they end up in the same place. they have gotten out of the people that work with them and for them everything they know and they're making the tee significant based on fact and analysis which is a distinction from other administration. >> charlie:what is the question you most wish you knew about barack obama. >> i think it's a very good question, charlie. if the president is re-elected jack was the chief budget tboarkt tor in the '90s for pill

clinton and barack obama now. if the president is re-elected which 2 or 3 republicans would you first turn to try to have serious conversations? >> i'm not going to jump ahead of the -- >> i tried though. >> i think that the truth is that everyone knows there's going to have a hard serious conversation. we're he going to have to go beyond the point where one side no taxes are on the table. we are going to have make concessions. that's clear all along. >> charlie:do you think the conversation would have been better served if you had been prepared, you and the president to go the country and say this is what we really believe about entitlements. this is how we see what they need the country, this is what they mean to the economy for et better or worse and this is how they have to be changed. >> i think that's a little bit unfair. it is true that we have not put

out a budget that says or a policy proposal that says, we're just going to concede to the other side. >> right. >> we did put in our budget some tough poll is, change in medicare and medicaid cut back on programs important to me, important to many democrats. you haven't seen the republicans take a similar move on taxes. all the calls for the administration to put a more clear vision out ignore what we have already put out. it's saying we want to know what your bottom line s i negotiated. >> you don't start with your bottom line. >> but sometimes don't you have to take a risk in order to get a solution? if both sides say, i'm not going to show you my hand because i can't get to the solution, you end up where we are. >> we have presented very clear principles on social security, we have presented very clear principles on medicare and the idea that we have to preserve medicare as we know it and

social security as we know it, are deep principles we have articulated. i personally spent 30 plus years speak to go why those are important principles. that doesn't mean we said no changes in medicare. >> charlie:how about social security? >> social security if you look at the budget the president put out he put principles that should guide us. i have seen a lot of discussions of social security that went nowhere. the only time it actually got to a successful end is when people didn't come and put their specific policies out. >> why did it fail time after time? why couldn't you get past the point -- >> it failed because in the end i don't think the other side was ready to move at all on taxes. i really believe that. if they had been prepared to have reasonable balance between revenues and spending we have been avoided a lot of economic problems. in the end that's what a balanced plan will involve. involve revenues, entitlement

cuts. we have already done and. >> charlie:and you believe it will be different if the president is re-elected because -- >> elections matter. the president will be in a position to drive this process forward. congress will get a message. there have been a lot of discussion about the fist clat clift. i have think the reality is congress has a challenge making hard decisons when there aren't consequences. >> the answer al to the question i ask you what i would most want to know when he considers the possibility he may very well be re-elected, what is it he feels he will be unrestrained to do? how does he think about this? i mean, how does he look at what will be the political realities? in terms of where i think i can take this country that i could not before? >> i think he's laid out a pretty clear vig and he will tomorrow night further.

i think his ideas are clear, his beliefs are clear. >> are they big ideas? >> building an economy that will last, that will create manufacturing jobs for the future. technological base to be the world's leading, driving force to be competitive in fields we run the risk of falling behind in. that doesn't happen by accident. it happens by having the best educated workforce, best research and development. these are. >> charlie:thank you. another time i would love to have you come and tell us what your day is like. you're the person that the president depends on to guyed him through the day. what is that about? >> charlie one thing i will say the day is less colorful than his president excess or ram emanuel. >> my job was not to create color but manage a white house that doesn't stop any day even when the president. >> charlie:maybe that says something about the evolution