every day and bought flags for his whole town. and one of the cars he built to surprise his wife, he gives me hope. the family business in la road minnesota who didn't lay off one of their 4,000 employees when the recession hit. even when their competitor shut down dozens of plants when it meant he would give up peckers and pay because they understood the biggest asset were the community and the workers who helped build that business. they give me hope. [applause] i think about the young soir sai met at walter reed hospital still recovering from a grenade attack that would cause him to

have his leg amputated above the knee. six months ago we would watch him walk into a whitehouse dinner offering those who served in iraq. thought and 20 pounds heavier, dashing in his uniform, would big grin on his face, sturdy on his new leg. and i remember how a few months after that i would watch him on a bicycle, racing with his fellow wounded warriors on a sparkling spring day, inspiring other heroes who had just gun the hard path he had traveled. he gives me hope. [applause] he gives me hope. i don't know what party these men and women belong to. i don't know if they'll vote for me. but i know that their spirit defines us. they remind me in the words of scripture, that ours is a future filled with hope. and if you share that faith with

me, if you share that hope with me, i ask you tonight for your vote. [crowd cheering] if you will just the notion that this prepared is reserved for the few, your voice must be heard in this election. if you reject the notion that our government is forever beholden to the highest bidder, you need to stand up in this election. if you believe that new plants and factories can dot our landscape, that new energy can power our future, that new schools can provide ladders of opportunity to this nation of dreamers, if you believe in a country where everyone gets a fair shot and everyone does their fair share and everyone plays by the same rules, then i need you to vote this november. [crowd cheering]

america, i never said the journey would be easy, and i won't promise that now. yes, our path is harder, but it leads to a better place. yes, our road is longer but we travel it together. we don't turn back, we leave no one behind. we pull each other up. we draw from our victories and we learn from our mistakes, but we keep our eyes fixed on that distance horizon knowing it is with us and we are surely blessed that we citizens of the greatest nation on earth. thank you. god bless you. and god bless these united states. [crowd cheering] ♪

>> woodruff: president obama making an appeal for the last 37 minutes to americans to re-elect them, telling the delegates in this hall in charlotte, north carolina that he has failings and that the path ahead is not easy. he said that more than once. he described what he wants to do for the next four years, and appeal time and again to americans in so many words to stick with him. the choice could not be clearer he said. >> ifill: his wife and daughters malia and sasha. if you look at the younger daughter i sasha she just shot p in the four years since we've seen them on stage all together. >> bill clinton spoke last night and talked about the better place he wanted to take the country.

mark. >> it was stay the course speech to a considerable degree. acknowledging shortcomings but at the same time holding out prospects for a brighter tomorrow. got specific on education, energy, manufacturing. and then an appeal to citizenship which is refreshing and i thought worked. >> woodruff: here comes the confetti. because they did not have this in the stadium here in charlotte, they certainly lost audience size but this change happened yesterday because of the threat of thunderstorms and no time to get balloons up there. but plenty of confetti. >> if you look at the stain you'll see some kind of fireworks behind them. the fact that they didn't have time to order tens of thousands of balloons like you used to see at a political sun vention. >> they are up on stage right now enjoying the falling tissue

paper. david. >> parts of it were harkening back to the old obama, the emphasis on you that you're going to do this, you're going to do this. and that stirs some old court. i like mark like the citizenship. i was really struck by again the continuity. you look at the policies, the vision, the way forward. things he said, he was in the senate hiring some more math and science teachers, expanding community colleges, renewable energy. to me these are bite size or medium size. policies fit for a country that's already in prosperity that's headed in the right direction. and so i guess on policy grounds, on vision grounds, i regard it as a bit disappointing frankly. a little too incremental for me. on the nature of the person, i still think he's an extraordinary speaker who has a very subtle grasp of what the country should do, a pretty balanced view of what citizens should be. in some sense more balanced than the republicans but much much

more modest in his vision for whether the country should change. >> woodruff: marg was i mark t convincing that he said you're going to see the turn around in the economy and the course this is on is the right course. you see that economy continue to get better. >> that's count intuitive by a two to one margins the americans have felt the country is headed in the wrong direction. they are here to make the case that it's better than you think it is. and things are really better off. certainly the emphasis upon the auto turn around has been the cornerstone almost. >> ifill: hold on for a moment. somewhere down on the floor with all that confetti and dancing is our own ray suarez, right. >> suarez: i'm not dancing myself. but it is an interesting reaction that this crowd has had. there were questions as to democrats came to charlotte,

just what kind of party they were going to throw here. when so many of the numbers being sampled from americans showed some disappointment in the president, some disappointment in the way things had gone. how it's being received out in the country is for analysts and commentators and fact checkers, frankly, that in this hall the activists of the democratic party appear to be united, optimistic and energized. these are the people who are going to run state campaigns, these are the people who are going to canvas districts, these are the people who are going to continue to raise money all the way to november. and they think they have a winner or at least they say they do. >> woodruff: i don't know about you but we're getting confetti right up here in the sky box. you look relatively unscathed so far. >> i have people to take care of. >> ifill: let's go to wash washington we have michael beckebeshloss -- his plan and pt

point, maybe i haven't done everything i'm supposed to do but everything i have done is because of you. is that the message he needed to take in order to take this out of this convention hall wrrve is on his side into the world where this is a very close election. michael. >> as you were saying little bit earlier all the talk about hope. and that's quite an accomplishment given how bad this economy is. but the interesting thing to me was in places that sounded like the species franklin roosevelt used to give, almost a sermon, this is a speech about political philosophy and what he's saying is if you believe in an activist government, if you don't believe turning the government essentially the society over to private interests, i'm the only one standing between you and allowing that to happen. it's a powerful argument and we're about to see, we're talking about a little bit earlier a campaign if it follows

this, are that addresses the division that runs all the way through american history which is strong government versus weaker government and private business. >> woodruff: richard, is that how you heard it, as a speech of political philosophy? >> well sure. but it's interesting. i was thinking, judy, listening to the speech is the advantage, the potential advantage the party has to go second. that was a speech and indeed i would argue that was a convention heavily influenced by what we saw and heard last week in tampa. thi is an either/or speech. this is a speech all about drawing contrasts between which america in effect, which region you're embracing. somewhere tonight williams jennings brian is smiling upon us. this is also the populous barack obama. the implication was it's okay to be disappointed. in some ways in the last four years, but you should be afraid, very afraid if the alternative prevails in november.

>> david, you know i went through the speech and try to count the number of times he used the formulation of the word choice or choose and he used it 19 or 20 times. this was clearly by design. and there was a formulation at the end where he says government is not the solution to all problems neither the source of all problems. a lot of contrasts like richard is talking about. >> clearly the president's strongest mass and strongest strength of this whole convention is romney and his proposals. i think he's the highlight of the convention. the case he made against romney is very well done. that's what we will remember frankly maybe more than the speech and even the president's own remarks. trls the criticism of romney on that agenda which seemed to offend him most and which he was bold es at. i didn't see similar audacity what he wanted to do, more about prevention, preventing those guys what they were wanting to do. >> mark were you struck when he twice refned how hard the path

is going to be. when he did talk b he talked about his own failings. >> he did. excuse me judy. he was generic, general, he was the specific. he did talk about tax reform but the only higher taxes were going to be on those earning over $250,000 which has been his position. i thought, there are several points at which the crowd and the room responded i thought when he talked about climate change. that was a big number because that's science. that's the democrats -- >> it's not a hoax. >> it's not a hoax, it's real and the democrats are saying we are the party that does believe in science. >> woodruff: and he was mocked at that at the republican convention. >> that's correct. the other thing was there's a strong strain of nationalism in this. when you hear a democratic crowd chanting usa, usa when he talked about building cars in america, when he talked about jobs in america and not being, that,

that was sort of a wave of nationalism that one has not associated with democrats. >> interestingly tommy baldwin sat here and said she wanted to erect -- he on the other hand mentioned free trade agreements. still tension with the party and he's still sunnying with the free trade agreement. >> talking about being tough with china, holding china accountable. >> woodruff: there was a biden reference just before the president talking about this whole argument whether the united states is an exception, we're already an exceptional country. >> ifill: would not exceptional president. >> woodruff: michael i do want to ask you another question about this because we've been flu two weeks about the convention and parties seeing themselves clearly different from one another. are they so different when it comes down to the fundamental vision. >> yes, they really are. take a look at tax policy which he talked about very specifically. that's a fundamental difference. and you know we were talking about this a little bit earlier

in the evening too. you can look at this as saying it's a terrible thing the country is so polarized or you can say in a way it's thrilling we are about to possibly have a campaign that's brought over one of the central divisions in american history and american life. not a bad thing. >> ifill: are we? richard? >> that's the 64,000 or minute $-minute-maybe the $64 written - million question. we may have a depate over these issues. the problem of course is all of those attack ads all of that money that passes for public discourse on capitol hill and talk radio, you name it, it's all of that helps to define for better or worse the campaign ahead. >> david you have said the last couple days, i think you and

mark have mentioned this whether the president should or shouldn't embrace the simpson-bowles the deficit reduction. the president talked about it and said they have great ideas but i'm not going to go along for republican plans giving a tax cut to the wealthy. >> there were a couple things where he made my i'll say leg tingle. there was a vague reference to tax reform, some fundamental tax reform. there was that mention to the debt commission. frankly i'm a little skeptical that any big proposal like fax reform which is a big program is he going to put his heart into it if it's a merit in his speech. >> the idea that the president has a spine or the democrats need a spine or he has a spine of feel, a backbone. and even in the president's only remarks you heard him saying i will do this. do they feel the need somehow to make that point. >> i think that's obama. that comes from obama. when i would get calls from people in the white house, the

theme of every call was the president showed guts, he showed guts on this, he's got guts. and that was the theme. i always think they all -- he's saying make them sure i've got guts. that's him. that's part of his competitive spirit. he want people to know he's a tough guy. >> democrats, there's no question about democrats compassion as far as in general. there is a question about this toughness. the republicans it's bream burseed. it wasn't a question whether they're tough it's a question whether in fact they had a heart. it's sort of a complementary and the missing, and i think this was part of the assertion. but deval patrick told the democrats collectively everybody to get a backbone, to grow a backbone which suggested the absence that maybe there was a vertebra transplant. >> woodruff: did we learn something new about him today. he's been president for the last four years david. did you see a side of him you wrchlt familiar with. >> no, that at all.

i was reminded when h.w. bush ran, where the campaign came from ronald reagan and said we are the change. even though the white house according to reagan wanted to stay in the same party but he's saying we are the change, we will see the change and i really didn't see that. >> ifill: we will be back in a just a second but we want to check in with ray suarez on the floor in the middle of all the action, ray. >> suarez: gwen for years republicans have credit sized the democratic party for being anti-religion or even anti-god. they implied in the criticism of the democratic platform this week. so if the riddle is how do you make 20,000 democrats stop in their tracks, the answer to that riddle is, bring out cardinals dolan from new york to give the benediction and close down the convention. everything stopped in the hall, and the combative new york cardinal arch bishop who has locked horns in the obama administration in the recent

past over requirements that insurance plans have birth control coverage gave a very long prayer in which he was very hard on two points. the rif right to life and the constitution guarantees life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. that these rights are inalienable and also along with, maybe that's a bad word in the benediction but along next to jesus you might say on the importance of religious liberty. because the catholic hierarchy has been very critical of the obama's administration attempts the to prescribe what's in insurance plans saying it does interfere with religious liberty. you never heard controversy about who is going to say the benediction at a convention before and the combative cardinal developpen go doinl mad and everybody is going -- points and everybody is going home. >> woodruff: we didn't

here -- >> ifill: is that right the debate about closing out the convention. >> cardinal dolan offered to address the convention and was spurned initially. there was an inta intramural bae when the whitehouse and campaign and after he gave the closing again diction in tampa. i said cooler and wiser heads prevail, we can't not invite him and invite him they d the most prominent catholic church man in america certainly. despite differences, i think that was necessary and the crowd was remarkably respectful. there was concern on the part of the democrats that there would be some people who would turn their back or say something else. and that did not happen. >> ifill: final thoughts of the week, david. >> successful convention. the 10:00 hour, i would say romney, obama that was sort of a tie but the clinton speech was excellent. the michelle obama was excellent. i think if you take the two

conventions, you look at a party, you have doubts about the republicans now. and the republican convention looks worse in retrospect because i'd say that because they did not champion and make a case for all the policies that have been seriously attacked here. given a week i would give a slight advantage to the democrats. >> mark. >> the democrats won desitessively the first two nights and the third night as well. disaifd's right the republicans are going to pay a price for a content-free convention. basically a content-free. this was not content-free. >> ifill: back to washington richard norton smith, without it falling on how, how did it look. >> a confetti free assessment. i would agree with david. i don't think we saw anything new or revealing about the president tonight but what we did see revealed tonight was the democratic strategy. up until now the assumption has been that this is an election, a

referendum upon the performance of the incumbent president. what this convention and i think tonight in particular was all about was to suggest that it is, at least as much a referendum on the republican alternative. >> michael. >> i think that's right. and the other aspect of this was you know, obama covered so many different things that a president does tonight, it was almost there are times almost seemed like a state of the union. that was intentional because he was saying in fact he did say in his speech i'm the president. he's saying by implication split mitt i -- mitt romney is not ofn to this. this is like russia is our biggest enemy. that's effective. >> ifill: those of you in washington, david brooks my wingman here and charlotte and mark shields. >> woodruff: both of our wings here. >> ifill: thank you. >> woodruff: guys it's been great having you with us. we have a little of our own

confetti. >> get that biodegradable. >> we are going to leave it at that but we want to remind you what you can find on-line about the convention. here's hare vaw. >> sreenivasan: vawps we broadcasted channels with uninterrupted speeches behind the scenes view from our rowing cam, views from the work space and arenas and even a channel completely translated into spanish. judy, gwen, mark, david, jeff, ray and christina join viewers every day from our flash studio in the news room. on-line we covered the events from every angle, from the influential after party scenes to protests rocking the streets around the convention. to political cartoonists and their take. two professional photographers roamed the events and helped us

create an archive of more than 500 images. they're all free for public use. we explored the nation through our digital map center both on air and on-line. it's home to american 800 layers of demographic and political data. to get a little more personal we launched our politics quiz in partnership with pew research center a fascinating tool that may teach you something new about your own political views. throughout the season on listen to me campaign has showcased voices from hundreds of voters around the country on their most important issues. and thanks to more than 500 volunteers from the pbs newshour community, many of those opinions have been translated into multiple languages. on behalf of pbs stations from around the country we interviewed delegates from battle ground states, in our studio and on the convention floor. and if you you missed anything, don't worry, you can find every major speech, every major moment and much more at our website. newshour dot pbs.org. >> with that we end our coverage

this final thursday night. i'm judy woodruff kyl i'l. >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill. thank you for being with us tonight.

captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> charlie:wel tom the program tonight our continuing k komp in charlotte new york david brooks the columnist port he or she times. >> i trust mitt rm any. if our problem were sewingal equity i trust barack obama. but if we have 3 and growth for neither party has a good adenned ga. who do i are trust?

who is going to give me balance. navigate fees cross current. one of the roan i say the democrats from the advantage hail obama hasn't come out with a plan, he seems like the guy who is cape believe of doing did. mitt romney has not shown what. >> we continue former chief of staff for president obama, bill daley. >> there will be a point people do have to govern. i do not believe that the leadership and the republican members of the congress are irresponsible. maybe it's everybody's going to look down in the abis and say you know what we may want to continue our games but this has gotten much more serious. >> charlie:we con krawd this evening with mark halperin, maggie and swron heilemann. looking at the politics of this convention. one of the weakest things i think about governor conventions which had success they drove no

he message out of. there was no single message that said to people, remember what we said m tampa we're going to drill it in your head. i think the obama campaign will build off the president's thursday speech for the feks few days on make tg bit more concrete what would a second term be right. >> charlie:more on the democratic convention when continue. funding was provided by the follow.

>> charlie:did i goal founding provided by these funders captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie:we continue this evening our coverage of democratic national convention from charlotte, north carolina. president obama accepted the no, ma'am naig of the democratic party. he reminded voters of the promises he made in 2008 and how he had kept them. out lined his vision for the

country next 4 years. choices voters will face. we begin with david brooks a-columnist with the new york times. >> great to be with you. >> so wr to you think the democrats are this moment we're taping this on thursday afternoon before we hear the president. we know the first read tee find what kind of man he was. bill clinton defined what kiepped the party they were and opens it up for him to talk to the future. i would say leading. ip wouldn't have said that couple weeks ago. i've always bp of the view what romney was a slight advantage, a slight advantage here because i'm basically pessimistic of the economy and europe. if you're a president 47 when people ask what's receipt electrics year 43 that's favor -- i felt romney was at a slight advantage in this race. we now have basically two conventions and the democrats i

think have gained the edge. the republican convention in retrospect looks worse. it lacks worse because romney basically took on with paul ryan a pretty ambitious agenda and wimped out and did not articulate why we need this agenda and that they're going to push. he create a spoil vacuum which bill clinton was happy to fill. >> charlie:he looked like a happy man. >> he kept saying. >> charlie:i got to get this, come on. really full -- for bill clinton. the republicans seemed to have missed an opportunity to talk about the future. they were so concerned about talking about mitt romney. >> they have a plan for the future. it's a secret man now and it is this medicare reform and tax reform, pretty big things. they missed the opportunity to talk about what they have. the democrat haves nothing right now. i've asked probably 15 or 16 very senior democrats over the

past couple days, what one law wowl like to see president obama pass if he gets a second term and the a answer is zero. no one can give me an answer. i know they want to preserve medicare and student loans and pell grants and medicate. 4 years ago we had a bunch of big proposals sit inning front of us. we were sitting democratic convention. health care plan, house whoing a whole bunch of policy proposals. we've got nothing now. everyone keeps saying to me don't worry the president will outline t i hope so. >> charlie:there's no word what it might be. you would think there would be some indication where the president wants to take the party. they know that's one of the big issues that has not been tee find. where is the future? >> i have neafer seen a president -- certainly not this president, he's not one to surprise us. we meet before the state of the

unions, big addresses. i've never been 'surprised by his addresses. he rehearses, talks about these policy proposals. he's telegraphed nothing. maybe he will have some big proposal. talking to his people i don't think they're enthusiastic. i towt they're going to telegraph before they want 0 wait for getting into a negotiating process. what does he he want to do for 4 years. >> charlie:how would you define where the be where the election will be decided. >> it's about who can do balance. there are three things need to be done. economic gross fiscal discipline and sewingal equity. they're three different goals. they're in tension with each other. >> charlie:so if our problem was debt i trust mitt romney if our problem with a sewingal equity i truce barack obama and

we have 3 and growth for neither party has an agend darks who do i trust? who is going to that have gate these cross currents. one reason i say the democrat haves the ang obama hasn't come out with a plan to navigate cross currents, he seems like the guy capable of doing that. >> charlie:do you think that the president has a plan to deal with republicans in the congress? >> no. i don't think either of them has a plan. they're the fantasy of american politics is that my party is going to run a crushing victory and the other side will go away. the fantasy from the president cox being from the background he comes from i will explain the facts to them or the facts to the american people and so many people will be persuaded it will work. >> i've been reading the articles about the president jodi kantor, david mare innas peelter baker. there's coming up in vanity fair

by michael louis. what comes out of this competitiveness of the president number 1. number 2 something bordering on arrogance and number 3, that sometimes he can believe more in his abilities than justified. >> yeah, well that's for sure an i think the fourth thing i would add is the antipolitical aloofness. the senate wasn't that thrilled to be there. and i think this this has been a conscious strategy of the people around him spreafting him are the from of the politicians. he's a transformational figure. >> charlie:transformational to what? >> i don't know. he doesn't want to be one of these. >> charlie:if you want to ab transform aigal figure you have to take us somewhere. >> right. >> charlie:you don't know -- you've covered him intensely. >> at the end of the day i think the stuff about hope an change

and the guy he was 4 years ago and i read for refreshment the speech he gave 8 years at the democratic convention, i still thill that's who he is. he would still hike to be the guy who navigates left and rye, he would like to live in that wormed but he's become cagey, become i know what my party does not want me to go anywhere beyond what it believes in, how far in advance can i get. the answer has been not very far. hoping. >> charlie:but he seems to be the kind of man that wants to be great, would like to be a great president. >> bill: ond george -- would think about it. if you don't have a war that defines you and that's the best wail to greatness. >> right. >> charlie:it is somehow a huge bold idea. could there be some kind of marshal plan, man on the moon program? add a spec second term if the

president win. >> peggy noon an he seems to regard politics as an unpleasant duty on his path to greatness, that the act of shaking hands had somehow i have to go through this to get to my mount rushmore. i think that's somewhat genuine. think we know what the duty is and i think we know what the agenda is frankly, which is we're at a moment of potential national tee klein. fraichg link roost veflt an ronald reagan revived the american dream. there's an agenda starts with big tax reform, agenda out there to be used. >> right. i was at a thing in charlotte with michael porter from harvard business school. a chart of 8 things we could do. things like making sure immigration works so skilled people stay here. things like making the

regulatory environment simple so people can invest. chasing the medical twice overseas. our regulation tion are stringent an so complicated you want to get away from them. he had a bunch of 8 ditch policies infrastructure spending. 80% of the country behind them. put them in one big package combine with fiscal discipline, lay it out there, see what happens. but that's the kind of risk. >> charlie:but he doesn't do that because he think's it's too risky. >> he has become defined over the last two years without the sense of mission in the first 2 years defined by the negotiates progress excess he's in. whatever position he's taking within that negotiating process. second i would say this about the white house itself, the original principles have left and they have been followed in almost every case by somebody with a staffer mentality, rahm

emmanuel big figures replaced by servants of the president but not independent big figures and i think some of the confrontation has gone down in the white house. it's more smoothly running opt domestic side than it was. less dynamic, less electric. >> charlie:on foreign policy you wrote a column this has been a very dwod foreign policy president. >> yeah. all the flaws he brings to domestic policy which is the incremental rism has served us well without a huge tee fining conflict. >> charlie:huge tee fining idea? >> yeah i'm not sure there is. but sometimes going back toize an hour, he didn't have a huge tee fining idea make sure the world doesn't screw up. one of may here owes says you're ien ship of state. if the water going this way balance.

if the water is blowing that way, stay anote. in foreign policy, that right now without this cat clis mik confront tag i think that's what he should be doing and what he has done. >> charlie:do you have any idea what voters will decide this ee lengths? >> you know, generally it's character. it's like me who react like me. >> charlie:is it really? what makes you believe it's character berather than best interest. >> economic interest. walk around the upper west side of manhattan. walk around working class arkansas people voting economic interest. they're driven by who is like me. part is sanship is not driven by ideology. they look at what party is filled with people like me. the democratic party is a party of professionals, a people who want to have hillary clinton's

lifestyle, michelle obama, barack owe bam marks elizabeth warren. grew up middle class. >> charlie:but the bluff collar worker in that category. >> depends what category. the white is in the republican cat gor i looking at this convention the democrats have given up on that demographic. eeght those there goes back to the scott irish culture in the sent century individual, self-reliance, competitive toughness. they say who is like me, who is competitive individually self-reliant lie yant? the reapness probably do more of that. m ohio valley where a hot of scots irish those people tend to vote republican on a working class. john kerry lost by 23 percentage points.

barack by 18 percentage points. >> charlie:do you believe the american people want to be talked to in a way that says these are the hard realities? this is the way the world is working now. we're in a bad place and we need to do something on the revenue side. we need tie tack this problem and i need you to support me in that effort. we're in this boat together. >> if you ask me as a punned it i say yet. when chris cyst trisay blood, sweat toil an tears. politicians are not dumb and nobody ever takes them up on it. >> charlie:those in office are not dumb. >> i debated paul ryan self times and we have debates on the merits but then we have a debate on the political analysis. one of the debates we have i think his agenda is risky if not suicidallal. he think the country is changed willing to embrace the hard medicine. >> charlie:you think it's

suicidal for -- y-they don't trust government. >> charlie:there's the poipt you shouldn't trust. >> they say i have benefits. hammered by this recession you're going to hammer me with something else. i think you really have to give threm a sense we will protect. ever ri one is in together, we're all going to suffer equal ri. if the republicans can make that case forcefully and show them the graphs where we're headed i think maybe could make that argument. the way we're going about it i don't think they have made that argument. on balance, it's necessary to change these entitlement programs. the case hasn't been made to the american people. ross perfect owe, warren buffet buy partisan effort. >> charlie:do you think the president would know -- second term what he would be prepared to do if he entbainled in hard-helded analysis of entitlement the same weigh he

did afghanistan, pakistan? >> yes in conversations with me, people like me let's put it that way, they have a story to tell in negotiations last summer they were prepared to make some serious changes. but that's always in the future for people like me, tears lucy is putting down the football in six months we're going to kick that football but then the football is never there. i've been waiting. the first thee days before he was inaugurated, he gave a dinner with columnist and went to washington post and said 6 months from now it's all going to be -- we are going to hit hard in getting our situation under control. it's always been 6 months in the future. >> charlie:efl said this before in an interview with me the problem the last 4 yores has not been getting the policy rights, getting the commune -- i don't want to say marketing,

communication of the policy. is he right about that? >> not really. well -- no, i don't really think sovment he's been more of a big government guy. >> than i thought he would be and the american people thought he would be. >> charlie:he became a big government guy in the presidency? >> i have a dear friend columnist washington post. we both admire obama. we admire different people. >> charlie:the obama you see is different than he sees. >> eg sees populist fighting for the working class. i see trend holding guy fix our politics. so we both like that guy. but i would say in the last couple years, e.j.'s guy has emerged than may guy. but i don't think my guy is dead. >> charlie:is there one politician anywhere that defines what you believe would be the type profile that would get us to where you think we need to

be? >> i'm tended to say no, i toned point to a whole group of people. you know who i would say just about any mayor or governor in this country. we have fascinating group of mayors. >> charlie:and their place is the laboratory. >> right. whether it's rahm emmanuel, mayor bloomberg or fof nors mich daniels. these people are conducting policies. personally wish wosh conducted in washington. you don't have to go far. you see change every day. i remember watching rahm emanuel come pain inning chicago. facing obvious challenges. fixing that school, fix pg this police district, very practical, get it done. and he would look like the happiest man on earth to be out of the washington and do what he loves. >> charlie:theul for coming david brooks. back in a moment krnches we contl

tailly january 2 pleased to have him back on this program. i should suggest he had been earlier very close to president clinton. understands politics and chicago. ii want to begin with that question you heard david brooks the kind of leadership that he admires are people who are mayors and governors because they have made those maces a laboratory to try to make government work. do you agree with that. >> i do agree with that. i think the mayors even more so han the governors, first of all, they have real power, they're less part is san most of them. they doesn't have parse san divides in big cities. they have the ability to test things, get them done and move them on and implement them. washington has become for the presidency a very difficult

place domestic cli. there's still power in the president foreign policy and military affairs but on the domestic side the congress over the last 40 years who is never in charge has gone a long way in taking away a lot of the ability of the president to implement what he wants. >> charlie:what is the most important lesson you learn? ation i said you were involved with al gore and bill: ton and democratic party. when you went to the white house insield the oval office, what did you learn? >> i think the biggest is your prize in the 10 years when i left president clinton as commerce secretary and joining president obama chief of staff, it was pretty partisan when clinton was there. they did impeach a president. it was pretty -- newt gingrich was a very tough leader who had led the revolution for the republicans to take back the

house the first time in 40 years. and he was the leader of the group. what surprised me first of all was just enormous bitterness and anger deviciveness that was deep. i think a lot of that was the last 10 years of the fragmentationch our politics, media, fact that you've got these media organizations that take one side or the other and may drive it, drive it, drive it. >> charlie:basically cable television and talk radio. >> yeah and over the last few years we could have a year around campaign mentality. a lot of that is driven by that kftion on television shows on sunday. it's all about the politics. so what goes on in a campaign which used to end at the of the campaign and then you govern now bawtion of the year-round poll sticking and campaigning you're governing with the same climate and attitude at the height of a

campaign. we're nft middle -- towards the end of this campaign so you expect that sort of intensity, drama, charges, the energy. but to have that continue as it has over the last number of years, year round in trying to govern in that climate is i think a very difficult thing. and that's what washington has become. >> charlie:do you think how to fix it. >> no. if i knew, i would tell everybody but i do believe at some point this sort of deviciveness and anger -- president clinton i thought last night -- he said a lot of great things. his optimism. his don't bet against america and we're coming back. things aren't as bad. yes they're difficult for lots of americans no questions about it. we are still very much the envy of the world in all sorts of way, for education, business

opportunities. and somehow we've got to get that back to understanding this has been a very difficult 4 or 5 years for the american people. >> charlie:speaking of president clinton we're tape thg before president obama speaks to the convention tonight. pretty clear where he wants to go. he has to lay out what he wants to do because the first lady talked about him and former president talked 'the republicans. he has a clear agenda david brooks mailed the point he doesn't what the president wants. do you know what the president wants? >> i think the president has been clear. he wants an economy that's growing, one that's reflects our values more than we have over the last number of years. so he's been very clear. state of the union, acceptance of nomination, a few events in a president's year where he gets the total focus of america on that speech and i think he will lay that out again tonight. last opportunity for him to have done that wags in the state of

the union. >> charlie:everybody weants the economy to grow. broad principles everybody agrees on, is it not? what we want to do know is what his plan is to get there. >> he will lay that out. if you go back and look at the last year and 3 yawrs now, he's been specific on things. they haven't gotten done. we have numerous votes in the senate on jobs bill last fall that were very specific. he put out a budget with pieces. they were debated in the senate, never in the house but those were specific ideas that were never really -- no one on the other side really wanted to negotiate on those. they had their own agenda. >> charlie:she say you were never prepared to negotiate on entitlements. the. >> the speaker knows that's different. we were in goargses and we had lots of conversations and the president publicly talked about the need for democrats to understand that we

had to go with some difficult decisions. >> charlie:boehner speaker of the house same question i was prepared to make the deals on the revenue side but the president came back to me and said, i need more revenue and that's what in the end ruined the deal. >> what happened really in my opinion what really ruined the deal if you remember we had been waiting and waiting for the gang of 6 to come out with a plan. they came out 30 some republican senators said they would sign on board to what trillion 200 bill i don't know dollars of ref nie. we were merely trying to get out of speaker boehner 800 bill i don't know obviously over 10 years. we went back to him not as a condition but said, look, if we are going to get the votes. >> charlie:right. >> democratic vote in the senate, we must -- and he had never and his leadership team

had never gone through any count on the man we were working on as to what votes they had. it was pretty simple for me to say, look, if we were all going to have a hard time getting votes you would have a hard time with 800 bill i don't know. when senate republicans have signed on board to 400 bill i don't know more than we were agreeing to say how were -- we have to take a look at whrrnts this deal we have been talking about private can get the votes. this was all about trying to get the votes and it was our opinion at that time that we ought to look at trying to get a little more revenue to get more votes but it was not either or. >> charlie:that's the first i heard that explanation. i don't know if you talked about that before or not. that's the first time i heard that. you're basically say yes indeed you did say we needed revenue but it's because we have a commitment in the senate from republicans in the senate that they need this in order to get their votes.

>> obviously democrats would have said, wait a minute how bad of negotiators are you people? you have republicans saying they would sign on board 1.2-trillion and you settle for 800-billion. what is wrong with you people. it was about an acknowledgement this was making it more difficult for us to get democratic votes if you would republicans willing to be courage us and stand up saying they were for 1.2 trillionlion in revenue. that sent us in a difficult swaying. the speaker had a sense his caucus was grg to have a hard time taking 800 billlion of revenue. if fell through. >> charlie:how will that be different if the president is he re-elected and house is controlled by republicans? >> we are facing a bob reuben said we are on the titanic looking at the iceberg. we haven't hit it yet but it's right there.

in january of this coming year, you will have all tax cuts expire and you will have a see questionings strayings, continuation -- you have defense and you have more domestic cuts. we cut almost a trillion dollars a year ago on the table is 1.2-trillion plus the tax cuts in '01 expiring. >> charlie:we know that and people have been talking about that. what makes you think the president will convince the republicans if he's elect gend titanic is facing the iceberg? >> first feel all they had have to acknowledge this debate has gone on american people have spoken. there will be a point people really do have to govern. i do not believe that the leadership and the republican members of the congress are

irresponsible. maybe it's everybody is going to look down in the abis and say you know what we may want to continue our tbains but this has gotten much more serious. and if by chance europe doesn't get their straightened out, then you're talking about a rather difficult situation in early '13: so i'm an optimist i do meef the system can work. if it can't work when you're looking at the iceberg then we have the discussions will shift to a fundamental discussion of does our system function as it was set up 300 years ago in a way that's responsible to the american people. >> charlie:how do you think barack obama will be different in the second term if he wins? >> my sense is a re-election in many ways, not liberates but gives a president the opportunity to really deal long-term because they're