>> rose: welcome to the program, tonight we look at the new iphone 5 with david pogue, technology columnist for "the new york tim w rirwb whore writes the blog daring fireball. >> it looks kind of like an old iphone that has been run over with a steam roller, taller, thinner, flatter and lighter, so it is getting there, and yet what glows me, blows me away i have been writing for "the new york times" for 12 years and i know that this is going to look primitive, i mean, this is the cro-magnon iphone, we are like oh it is so thin, no, you can't roll it up yet so the funny thing is when you extrapolate from where we are now to five years from now they will be really amazing not just iphones but all of the units. >> rose: we continue this

evening with jeffrey, the book of the oath, the obama white house and the supreme court. >> 17 chief justice, 44th president, two people who in some respects have a lot in common, born within six years of each other, both came of age in the think area, both products of harvard law school and the hear extraordinary la law review but both of them, and both of them real students of the constitution. but that is where the similarities end because roberts coming from his very conservative background, very stable background, is a true conservative, and he believes that the constitution neeth to change the irony is one believes in change and one really believes in stability and it is roberts is the one who wants change. >> rose: we conclude this evening with karen elliott house, a pulitzer recipient for covering the middle east. >> on saudi arabia. >> so i think the country has

problems, all of these problems of unemployment, wealth distribution, housing, poverty in a country that has got that much money, and those are not going to get better without some real younger energetic leadership. >> rose: the iphone 5, the supreme court, and saudi arabia, when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: anticipated iphone 5 will be available to the public tomorrow at 8:00 a.m., it is thinner, longer and faster than previous models, more than 244 million i phones have been sold since the day whew in 2007, but apple's

competition is growing, google, microsoft and samsung are all vying for shares in the mobile phone market, joining me now, david pogue, she technology columnist for "the new york times" and john gruber he writes the blog daring fireball, it draws 5 million viewers per month, both have had the iphone for, iphone 5 for the past week and have had to share their insights and i am pleased to have them here, welcome, good to have you here. >> thank you. >> rose: so here it is. i have one too, by the way. but only for 30 minutes, and you have had this, is it different after working with it and living with it for a week, has any of the opinions that you had initially changed? >> no. >> rose: no. >> it has been improved in every possible way you can improve it, the sound, the picture, the camera, the speed, the internet speeds, the weight, the screen size, every way they could thing of to improve it they have but it is lots and lots and lots and nips and -- >> rose: is it significant or incremental? >> it adds up to significant but

it is incremental, i mean there is no buying like now it takes speech recognition and now the yeeb is a retina display, finer than ever before, there is no buying new thing like that. and, you know, i am not sure, a, there could be year after year after year, b, i am not sure how much of that stuff was steve jobs and that now what they are doing is a long-term -- >> rose: it is in the pipeline when he died? >> yes, but this may be one of the last ones. >> rose: okay. >> and i think the other thing too and i think apple definitely has it in mind when most people buy a new cellphone of any sort it is on a two-year contract and most people don't get a new one no matter what comes tout next year until that contract is over, and you compare this to the iphone from two years ago, and i think it is a really, really compelling no-brainer blows it away superior experience. you know, year over year it is nicer, i agree with david, exactly, but it is the two-year window where it really stands out as an upgrade. >> rose: one thing that is

different you both have spoken to it, it doesn't connect the same way, connectivity or whatever they call that. >> no, sir, it does not. after 244 million phones and 400 million ipods, ipads and phones. >> rose: which shared all -- >> all the same. >> rose: all the same. >> same connector charger, so every hotel you walk in, there is one of these and in the alarm clock to charge your phone, cars have the jack, chargers, external batteries, medical devices, none of them will work with this. so i am really annoyed because i have a speaker dock at my house, an alarm clock next to my bed and extra cable here and there and none of that will fit here without an adapter, that is fine, this has a lot of excellent, excellent qualities, this is the new jack you can insert it upside down or right side up, it is very strong, it clicks into place and yanks out easily and much sturdier, but the adapt tore use all of your old stuff is either $30 for this little plastic thing or $40, for

a little piece of cable on it, it is crazy outrageous. >> rose: does the size make that much difference, the fact it is taller? >> i think so. i found -- .. i am a pain, my main phones for the last five years is i phones so i have gotten used to the old size .. so my thumb has kind of like i know where it is. it took a couple of days to get used to it. >> rose: you wrote that, didn't you? >> it is like a windshield wiper where i felt my thumb couldn't quite get up to the top corner because of the way i held it but you get used it to, it is not radically bigger, if you look at a lot of the other phones -- >> rose: it is one morrow. >> one morrow of icons, it is one more listing of e-mail, maps are bigger, pictures, and something i didn't think about until i actually had a look, the keyboard is actually a little wilder now, so bigger for that. >> rose: that's good. >> and definitely superior for video, because listen all video these days is in a 16 to nine aspect ratio, that is the exact aspect ratio of this so you don't have to choose between

zooming in on the picture to fill the screen, or letter boxing it to keep the aspect ratio of the original, it just fills the screen and that's it. you don't have to decide how buying should the video be. >> rose: and the quality of the camera? >> the quality of the camera is amazing, i was sitting there one night literally at night with the old phone and new one, just moseying around and took the same picture of the dining room table with almost all of the lights out, and on this phone you could see it, see what color it was, and on the iphone 4 s just a dim shadow. >> rose: that makes a lot of difference. >> i actually did the same thing late at night and daytime a lot of photos looked pretty much the same, old phone, new phone and nighttime photo, the light, i honestly thought maybe i did something wrong anding to it would lights and took it in a different -- it looked like i took it in different lighting circumstances i honestly thought people won't believe this is a side by side comparison it is going to look like i turned a light on. >> rose: what do you wish it had that it doesn't have?

>> obviously voice recognition and those kind of things we are longing for and they haven't perfected them am i right? >> right. >> it is a good question, i guess i wish that it had what i would describe as two-day battery life, where i could leave somewhere, put the full charge this morning and use it for two days straight, pretty much all day and it still have some energy left,. >> rose: you said this is on its way to being a bookmark you mean that thin. >> well, it looks kind of like an old iphone that has been run over by a steam roller, it is taller, thinner, flatter and lighter, so it is getting there and yet what blows me away, i have been writing for "the new york times" for 12 years, and i know that this is going to look primitive, i mean, this is the cro-magnon iphone, we are like oh it is so thin, no-no it is not you can't roll it up yet so the funny thing is when you extrapolate where we are now to the ones five years from thousand will be really amazing not just i phones but all of the

-- >> rose: do you think answering david's question, is this, is this in a sense sort of the end of where steve set in motion, and we are now looking at whether his successsors can carry on that kind of creativity and that kind of attention? >> or is this the beginning in a sense and you can say, look, the course is set, and he created a culture that will continue to turn out? >> i think in broad terms i think steve jobs had two gifts, and the first one was coming up with buying new things, like the first iphone, which was nothing like i said honestly we all expected an ipod that looked like an ipod with a click wheel and gave us this which blew us away and the second thing is this, like a dedication to iterating and refining year over year over year and making those buying new ideas, year over year

over year, better, better, better, i don't think this is the end of the road for this idea. i think, you know, like david said i think three years from now we will have one that makes this one look fat and heavy. >> rose: yes. >> the question i think for apple is, is apple going to have a next buying thing? it is not going to be a new iphone. >> rose: is there room for some system beyond -- i have asked this before, beyond the baffle operating system and the android system? >> apple operating system. >> that is a great question. microsoft has the phone system and it is really kind of brilliant they were asked to come up with something that what android and the iphone does without mimicking the little icons on the plaque background, you know, the same old copy cat design and they did it. the phone has these buying piles that come together and each one is not just a button but as billboard, a dashboard that is showing you that information about the text you have, the e-mails you have waiting, what

photos someone just sent you. it is beautiful, it is fast, the phones that run it are great, but nobody has one. it is the zoom story all over again. >> rose: oh, yeah. >> microsoft coming way late to the party, yes, coming up with a more polished, clever idea but just getting no -- >> rose: the market was gone. >> the apps aren't there, they are just so many -- >> rose: android has caught up with the answer answer. >> .. 600,000 in the catalog, 700,000 for the iphone. >> rose: approximately. for a while there was a huge gap. >> we are sort of dancing around this buying question, should you get an iphone, and so, and i think this is a buying part of the answer is that iphone is polished and controlled, and limited choices but everything works really, really well, and android is all about choice, less control, and applegate keeps what apps you can have and actually have curators that say

no you can't have porn you can't have this one it is buggy, an troid is whatever you want to put in here we will sell, so not 600,000 of the same quality apps. >> rose: ah. >> on the other hand android phones you can get much bigger screens and memory card to add storage and get this nfc chips that lets you buy things by swiping a phone on a cash register and for choices. >> rose: competition, android, is there room for more? can microsoft get traction? >> i think it would be great for everybody, including even apple and let's just say -- samsung makes other phones but mostly android for them, in the long run if there was somebody like microsoft could get traction i think it would be better because that sort of competition keeps everybody on their toes and keeps everybody from resting on their lawyer reallies, but. >> lawyers, laurels, i think they are some of the best reviewed tech products in the recent histories .. that haven't caught on in the marketplace.

>> rose: quality and market acceptance. >> yes, the critical acclaim, i would say they are critically acclaim, people really like them, i don't know, i think the worst thing anybody really says about window phones is there are not enough apps for them and kind of a chicken and egg problem, there are not enough apps, developsn'tn't don'ted and people don't buy them because there are not enough apps. >> rose: the story too is just really, is mobile, that's the story, isn't it? >> i definitely think so. >> rose: the buying story today. >> i think so. my favorite story about the iphone i remember from the last year, i read a profile in the new yorker of clayton christensen. >> rose: oh, yeah. >> the ininvestigator dilemma guy. >> and talked about the life he wanted to live type of thing. >> yes, just as an aside he mentioned he got the iphone wrong because when it first shipped in 2007 he predicted it would be a failure because it was so expensive and that disruption tends to come from below, not from above, you know, maybe apple will sell some of them the their fans but not disrupt the industry and in

hindsight he realized he was completely wrong, and it is because the iphone, and i think this is such a brilliant insight it is not really a phone, it is a little mini portable computer and what this thing did was disrupt the portable computer industry from below, only a couple hundred bucks, and now all of a sudden all these things people used to need, a full laptop computer running windows or the mac os 10 to do e-mail, to read web pages, to watch video, everybody is doing them on these things. >> rose: what are your readers wanting to know? what is it they come to you for? >> >> that's a good question. >> i think they want to know what is good. what deserves their attention? there is only so much attention in every day, and they only have so much attention left over after their work and dealing with the family, so if you are going to intend some time noodling around with a new ap in the app store, which one is

worth your time and not regret the 99 cents and the 20 minutes and i think that is also what facebook and amazon and google are all fighting over too is attention. >> rose: what do you think, david? what do your readers wants to know from you? >> i think it is that but more than that, it is more than just an investment, these are style statements, they say something about you and people get deeply offended if you imprint, say, that there isn't good or the one you didn't buy is good, you cannot believe the hate mail from the apple fan boys who say, you didn't praise it enough, and from the apple haters who say, how dare you say anything good about it. i mean, it is a personal, deep psychological issue, because people are making a bet on something, they are making a bet that android is the winner or iphone is the winner and they are personally invested in it and they get really personally riled up if they hear the media saying the wrong thing about their choice. >> rose: someone was talking

about the iphone and mobile said, you know, what can ignite -- what device can ignite the curiosity and interest of a ceo and a 13-year-old girl? it is the new iphone. >> it is true. that is true. it is a really remarkable thing, isn't it. >> rose: yes. >> where do you think we will be using these? i mean, when you think about the world you think about it will change healthcare, i mean i have done this program so i know a little bit about this, it will change education, it will change how people handle their finances, it will change credit, every kind of device, i mean every kind of way you can think it will change this, in a sense, and what are the risks of all of this? >> it is to make those kind of disruptions, what is the risk? >> i know for me personally the risk is that it is the risk of spending less time dealing with other people face to face, right? like those -- or those

rules that some people have they play the game they put their face down in the middle and hear this. >> they put their phone face down and the first one to pick it up. >> rose: pays for dinner. >> pays for the dinner. >> rose: i knew that's where you are going. >> i think that mindset is the danger if more and more of our communication is going through these screens, then less of it is going the way that really, you know, resonates the most, which is face to face. >> rose: do you use this simply to text? i mean do you use the e-mail much from thisro.

so everything is a be blessing and curse and just tools and nothing has changed since the beginning of invention, new stuff is scary but somehow we find a way to use it in the right way. >> rose: thank you. great to meet you. >> thank you. >> rose: good to see you as always. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: jeffrey tubin a staff writer at the new yorker mag steep and legal analyst for cnn and also writes best sell in other words his spare time, in 2007 he revealed the secret world supreme court in his critical acclaimed book the nine, his tale of the nation's final arbiter of constitutional law continues in this new book called the oath, the obama white house and the supreme court, it is an account of the ideological battle between a democratic president and conservative justices, i am pleased to have jeffrey tubin back at this table, welcome. >> hi, charlie. >> rose: it is an easy entry to things, but first of all, the title, why the oath? >> well a lot of people remember as i am sure you do the oath was

botched on january 20th, 2009, and in the rush of events neither or any anyone else found out why, what happened? and a lot of people criticized roberts for not preparing adequately, so i decided to look back as a journalist and say, you know, what happened? and there is a real story there. and the story is not the absence of preparation, quite the opposite, in fact, roberts rehearsed so many times that his wife told him at one point, at this point the dog thinks it is the president. but what happened is actually a very simple story that all of us who own a computer can appreciate. he and his top staffer prepared a pdf of the oath on how they were going to divide it up. and they -- roberts went over it very particularly and added a comma in one place and then they forwarded it to a secretary in the congressional committee that was supervising the

inauguration, that secretary never opened it, never forwarded it, so obama never had a copy of that pdf, he didn't know how roberts was going to divide up the words. they had a miscommunication in the very first line, and roberts, very uncharacteristically kind of panicked and then started messing up the words, but that is what happened. >> rose: roll the tape, here it is. >> i barac barack hussein obama, solemnly swear. >> i barack hussein obama solemnly swear. >> i will execute the office to the office of the president united states faithfully. >> that i will execute. >> faithfully the -- the office -- >> the office the united states faithfully. >> and will to the best of my ability. >> and will to the best of my ability. >> preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states. >> preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states. >> so help you god. >> so help me god. >> congratulations, mr. president.

>> rose: the problem. >> the problem was the phrase do so legally swear, because obama .. jumped in after barack hussein obama, i do not had said solemnly swear would be in that first stanza, but .. obama didn't know that so they were off kilter from the very beginning and then you saw roberts really just sort of lost his place. >> rose: and had a bit of -- there was some worry that the new president was not officially the new president? >> well, that is the next day story. of course in the -- all the excitement of the inaugural balls, no one thought much about it, the next morning, a young lawyer in the office of legal counsel, harvard law professor on leave named david barohn starting looking into this and he said, you know, this is potentially a problem here, because we live in an age and here is where, you know, it relates to the larger story,

where justices like anthony scalia and clarence thomas, they call themselves texture list, they believe in the letter of the law and they may say if the oath is not executed exactly right, there might be some defect with it, and david barohn suggesd d te cavtoraidigte