i think, it occurs to me that i don't know that they've ever really connected with anybody if they think the internet is how you do it. you know? it's postcard relationships. in order to know somebody through their words, i mean, it has to be an, it has to be a letter, you know? it has to be a long e-mail. it has to be a five-page hand-written letter, you know, it has to be overwhelming and messy and sloppy as humans are. and facebook and twitter and these other social sites bring every, i mean, 140 characters. i mean, i'm on twitter and i have fun. but i don't think anybody learns anything about me as a person. you know, one of the things i've always tried to do as a public person is limit the gap between who i am on a daily basis and who i am on a stage. you know, i've tried to be as honest -- >> consciously. -- yes, i've tried to be as honest as possible. >> how are you different? >> well, i think i'm a more gentle person in private, maybe slightly more gentle. i mean, i'm a lot more confrontational in public. i mean, i'm very angry person. >> at what?

>> oppression. >> oppression? >> racism, sexism, colonialism, the sins of capitalism, the sins of socialism, human weakness, human cruelty. you know, when we behave more like a lion pride than people with prehensile thumbs. >> is writing cathartic for you? is it healing? >> no. i think it can be healing for readers. you know, i have been helped and healed by other people's words. >> same here. >> but i, my own words for myself, oh man, i don't think so. >> do you think of yourself as a poet first and foremost? because that's how i first got introduced to you. >> i'm naturally a poet. i started as a poet. i think it's how i look at the world, you know? >> what, how does it help you see the world?

>> you know, i look at yo yo ma's cello and want to be the cello. i think a novelist would want to write about where the cello came from, who built it. i don't care. >> in this poem, "tribal music", whose tribal music are you writing about? >> mine. a tribe of one. you know, one of the things about being tribal, being a member of a tribe is the force that makes you, that makes the tribe, for you to be like the tribe, to share similar values, to be less of an individual and more a very conscious member of a community to share political beliefs, to share cultural beliefs. and i've always resisted that. one of the misconceptions about indians, you know, because liberals love indians, you know? white liberals worship indians. but actually, indians are a conservative lot. i mean, we by and large we vote democrat, but we live very republican lives, you know? indian communities, there's no separation of church and state, war is a virtue, guns are

everywhere, by and large pro-life. so, you know, once again, it's a very bipolar existence. you know, this, you know, knowing that democrats, by and large, are going to support us more. but still behaving like republicans. you know, it occurs to me it's like a big city republicans, who live these incredibly liberal, secular lives in the city, while espousing small town religious politics. >> you're, so different from how i expected you to be, quite frankly, because i have never met you. although one of my producers met you some years ago, 11 years ago, i think, rick fields. and i have a clip of the piece that we ran on my show then about you from seattle. take a peek. >> but my dad, that alcoholic

nomad, he used to leave my family for days or weeks at a time drinking and roaming. and i would lie awake all night waiting for him to come home, and five or six times i cried myself sick into the hospital. and i'd lie awake in the kids' ward, ignoring the night shift nurses who came in and said, "please, try and get a little sleep." so maybe i learned how to be an insomniac because i'm still waiting for my father to come home. >> what's changed for you since then? >> medication. i was undiagnosed bipolar. and staying awake was directly the result of that. either staying awake because i was depressed and didn't want to fall asleep for the nightmares or because i was manic and couldn't fall asleep because i had a million things to do. >> did your father ever come home? >> no. you know, i cut my hair when he died as part of a ceremony. and you can grow it back when the grieving is over. it's been 10 years since he died. so, and i haven't grown my hair back. and i doubt i will. >> he was an alcoholic? >> oh, lifelong, really.

>> there's one scene in your short story war dances, where the narrator's in the hospital with his father, who has just had surgery. he's cold. and the son is trying to find a blanket for him. why don't you read this excerpt, war dances, from "blasphemy." >> i walked down the hallway, the recovery hallway, to the nurses' station. there were three woman nurses, two white and one black. being native american-spokane and coeur d'alene indian, i hoped my darker pigment would give me an edge with the black nurse, so i addressed her directly. "my father is cold," i said. "can i get another blanket?" the black nurse glanced up from her paperwork and regarded me. her expression was neither compassionate nor callous. "how can i help you, sir?" she asked. "i'd like another blanket for my father. he's cold. " "i'll be with you in a moment, sir." she looked back down at her paperwork. she made a few notes.

not knowing what else to do, i stood there and waited. "sir," the black nurse said, "i'll be with you in a moment." she was irritated. i understood. after all, how many thousands of times had she been asked for an extra blanket? she was a nurse, an educated woman, not a damn housekeeper. and it was never really about an extra blanket, was it? no, when people asked for an extra blanket, they were asking for a time machine. and, yes, she knew she was a health care provider. and she knew she was supposed to be compassionate, but my father, an alcoholic, diabetic indian with terminally damaged kidneys, had just endured an incredibly expensive surgery for what? so, he could ride his motorized wheelchair to the bar and win bets by showing off his disfigured foot? i know she didn't want to be cruel, but she believed there was a point when doctors should stop rescuing people from their own self-destructive impulses. and i couldn't disagree with her, but i could ask for the

most basic of comforts, couldn't i? "my father," i said, "an extra blanket, please " >> autobiographical? >> oh, completely. you know, i remember when my first short stories came out and people were calling it autobiographical and i fought it. and then 10 years later i reread the book and thought, "oh shoot, this is memoir." >> eventually, the son in the story finds a pendleton blanket. what's a pendleton blanket? >> it's actually made by a white-owned company in oregon. these blankets have become highly sacred among indians. and actually, the pendleton company's amazing in their relationship with indians. so, you know, we love the pendleton company in oregon. and they're gifts. you know, the joke is they're like native american fruitcakes. the same blanket travels over and over and over. and nobody ever uses it. was that you searching for a

blanket or wishing you were -- >> wishing and the desire to go out. because i knew there'd be indians in the hospital, you know? if you're near an indian community, there are indians in the hospital. and, so i knew somewhere in that hospital was an indian family with more than one pendleton. >> and in the story, the son brings the blanket back. and he and his father sing together. did that happen? >> no, we never sang together. >> you wish it had happened? >> yes. i mean, even if we'd sang elvis together, that would have been great. >> you know, that you've been described as both an explorer and an exploder of indian stereotype. and alcohol is surely one of the most persistent stereotypes, correct? >> it's not a stereotype. it's a damp, damp reality. i mean, native americans have an epidemic rate of alcoholism. i'm an alcoholic, recovering. my father was an alcoholic.

my big brother's an alcoholic. one of my little sister's an alcoholic. my mom's a recovering alcoholic. every single one of my cousins is a drinker. all of my aunts and uncles were drinkers, some of them have quit, some of them never did. you know, my classmates, you know, three have died in alcoholic-related accidents. my brother has had five best friends die in alcohol-related accidents. and we're not atypical. >> what have you come to understand about that? >> it's medication. trying to take away the pain. and in a way it has substituted for cultural ways of dealing with the pain. so, instead of singing, we're drinking. and my father often said, "i drink because i'm indian," which, you know, is the saddest thing imaginable. >> why did you drink? >> because i'm indian.

>> how do you -- how do you stay sober? >> because i don't want to disappoint all those hungry sons out there, whose own fathers have failed them. because whether or not i believe in visions or omens, the last time i drank, i completely destroyed my then girlfriend's birthday party with my alcoholic behavior. and woke up the next day, late in the afternoon feeling deeply ashamed and thinking once again, "i'm going to quit." you know, i tried eight or nine times. but i woke up, went and checked my mail, and the acceptance from "hanging loose" for my first poetry book was in the mail. and i thought, "okay, this is a sign. write poems, sober up." >> and you did? >> and i did. >> you live in seattle now. you've lived there for how long? >> 20 years. >> but as a boy you lived on the

spokane -- >> -- reservation. how do you feel where you're in a place where your people were ethnically cleansed? >> we didn't make reservations. the military, the us military and government made reservations. and it was a place where we're supposed to be concentrated and die and disappear. and i don't know, and i think it's only out of self-destructive impulses that native americans have turned reservations into sacred spaces. >> you don't consider them sacred? >> no. often the place where reservations are aren't where the sacred locations were for tribes. i think spokane, because it's where spokane falls is, i think the city is actually far more sacred than the reservation. >> well, more indians today live in the cities than live on reservations. >> it's almost 70% of natives live off the reservation. it's not easy to live in either place. >> can american indians ever feel easy in a country that is

haunted by the memories of genocide, ethnic cleansing? >> i think for that process to begin, the united states would have to officially apologize. i mean, there's a holocaust museum in the united states, which i think there should be. >> right in downtown washington. >> but there should also be a native american holocaust museum. >> why isn't there? >> this country's not good at admitting to its sins. >> have you ever heard an apology for what happened? >> from white liberals. but never from white conservatives. >> these were, you were nearly exterminated. you -- >> oh, late 19th-century, early 20th, we almost blinked out. ironically, the reservations also saved us, because they concentrated us. >> how did that save you? >> breeding. you know? it wasn't until much later when the us government realized that relocation, taking us out of, you know, highly-concentrated ethnic communities was the way to dissipate us.

and that didn't work either, you know? there are blond indians now, red-headed indians. so it was cultural protection. it was sovereignty. the impulse to be together in a little group. >> in this sense, possessed of a horrendous memory, do you sometimes think of yourself as jewish? >> constantly. i have a really strong identification with that. and, you know, it's funny, because my poetry editors are jewish. and, you know, i have quite an international following. and one of my editors tells the story of she and her husband were in europe and these italian scholars were really obsessed and questioning about, you know, "what is the relationship between jewish people and indians?" and using my work as sort of this universal idea. and they asked her, "what does the native world think about," you know, "jewish people and

native americans?" and she said, "i think only sherman talks about that." so, i, it's a very personal vision. the big thing is humor. humor in the face of incredible epic pain. i mean, jewish folks invented american comedy. when you're being funny in the united states, you're being jewish. and despite all this incredible dislocation. and the thing, you know, even though it's pretty similar in population, the number of jewish folks and the number of native americans, they've had this incredible success. they have this incredible cultural power. and in a way, i wish that was us. in a way, that could have easily been us. you know? indians with our storytelling and artistic ability could have created hollywood. we could have created american comedy. so, in some ways, we're the yin and yang of the american

genocidal coin. >> there's a poem that i have read several times in anticipation of this meeting. and this one is troubling. "another proclamation." >> "another proclamation." when lincoln delivered the emancipation proclamation, who knew that, one year earlier, in 1862, he'd signed and approved the order for the largest public execution in united states history? who did they execute? "mulatto, mixed-bloods, and indians." why did they execute them? "for uprising against the state and her citizens." where did they execute them? mankato, minnesota. how did they execute them? well, abraham lincoln thought it was good and just to hang 38 sioux simultaneously.

yes, in front of a large and cheering crowd, 38 indians dropped to their deaths. yes, 38 necks snapped. but before they died, 38 indians sang their death songs. can you imagine the cacophony of 38 different death songs? but wait, one indian was pardoned at the last minute, so only 37 indians had to sing their death songs. but o, o, o, o, can you imagine the cacophony of that one survivor's mourning song? if he taught you the words, do you think you would sing along? >> talk about that. >> well, essentially, they were executed for terrorism. the perception of being terrorists for defending themselves and their people from colonial incursions.

>> as the whites had been pushing into minnesota, pushing them further west. and promised them, as i understand it, food in exchange for land. and then the food didn't come. and the indians reacted violently. >> and then all over the country massacres happening of people they, you know, they would push these tribes and these people onto reservations and then send the soldiers in to wage war on them. i just learned, i don't know why i didn't know this, some sort of denial i guess. but they gave medals of honor to u.s. soldiers who participated at wounded knee, absolute massacres of unarmed women, children, and elderly people. they gave medals of honor. and, you know, this idea of lincoln as this great savior. which is true. but in deifying him, it completely, completely

whitewashes the fact that he was also a complete part of the colonization of indians, a complete part of the wholesale slaughter of indians. >> he lived in the in between like everyone. what i know of this incident is that 303 indians were sentenced to death. president lincoln commuted the sentences of 265 of them on the basis he himself said of not enough evidence, but allowed 38 of them to be hanged. >> so, the hypocrisy abounds. so once again, the way in which i watch lincoln the movie is far different than most people watch lincoln. that movie in no way portrayed the complexity of human beings, and certainly does not portray the complexity of lincoln, who for his genius was also, you know, an incredibly, as any politician, an incredibly conflicted and conflicting man, who was capable of ordering

great evil. and who did, in fact, by ordering it, created a great evil, committed great evil, a sinful, sinful man that lincoln. >> had you known about the story for a long time? >> you know, most indians know a lot about the massacres. they're touchstones. they're a myth for us. >> what saved you spiritually? what saved you inwardly? >> storytelling. >> the age-old stories, you know, sort of an actual sacred nostalgia. and keeping all the ghosts alive, keeping all the memories alive. if you tell a story well enough, everybody in it is right there. so, nobody ever dies. >> why did you call this book "blasphemy"? >> because i've been so often accused of it by indians and non-indians. >> how so? >> because i question everything.

because even though i do believe in the sacred, i believe just as strongly in questioning what people think is sacred. because we're humans and we make mistakes. so, you know, i do my best to point out our weaknesses. and people don't like that. and the weaknesses of our institutions and the weaknesses of our politicians and the weaknesses of our religions. once again, 9/11, was the event for me. 9/11 turned all sorts of people into fundamentalists who weren't otherwise, on the left and the right, in the christian worlds and in the muslim worlds. and i refuse to participate. >> so, what do you mean by blasphemy? >> i don't believe in your god. and "your" means the royal "your." >> do you believe in your god? >> no. >> what do you believe in?

>> stories. stories are my god. >> would you read this for me? >> "vilify." i've never been to mount rushmore. it's just too silly. even now, as i write this, i'm thinking about the t-shirt that has four presidential faces on the front and four bare asses on the back. who's on that damn t-shirt anyway? is it both roosevelt's, jefferson, and lincoln? don't get me wrong, i love my country. but epic sculpture just leaves me blinking with dry-eyed boredom and don't get me started on blown glass art. i really hate that crap. i've never been to mount rushmore. it's just too silly. even now, as i write this, i'm thinking that i'd much rather commemorate other president. let's honor jfk's whoring and drinking or the 13 duels andrew jackson fought to defend

his wife's honor. why don't we sculpt that? who's on that [ expletive ] rushmore anyway? is it mckinley, arthur, garfield, and lincoln? and, yes, i know, there's a rival sculpture of crazy horse, but the sight of that one is ball-shrinking because crazy horse never allowed his image to be captured, so which sculptor do you think he'd now attack? i've never been to mount rushmore. it's just too silly. even now, as i write this i'm thinking about george w.'s wartime lies, clinton's cigars, and nixon's microphones, and i'm cringing because i know every president, no matter how great on the surface, owned a heart chewed by rats. who's on that [ expletive ] rushmore, anyway? is it buchanan, both adams's, and mr. lincoln? answer me this, after the slaughterhouse goes out of business, how long will it go on stinking of red death and white

desire? should we just cover the presidents' faces with gas masks? who cares? i've never been to rushmore. it's too silly. even now, as i write this, i'm thinking, "who's on that [ expletive ] mountain, anyway? is it jefferson, washington, reagan and lincoln? >> now go eight pages over to page 38 and read me your footnote. >> so it's footnote 13. honestly, i've never been there. this is not a conceit for the poem. i've truly never had any interest in visiting mount rushmore or the crazy horse memorial. once while driving in the region, i thought about stopping by, but i didn't. i have no regrets. i've seen alfred hitchcock's film "north by northwest," where cary grant's climactic battle with the bad guys happens on the

face of mount rushmore. it's exciting. but i much prefer the ending where we watch grant and eva marie saint start to make out in their train car, and then cut to the final shot of that awesomely phallic train penetrating a wonderfully vaginal mountain tunnel. i'm a lover, not a fighter." >> and we're all glad for that. sherman alexie, i really enjoyed this time with you. and thank you very much for sharing it. >> thank you, thank you. ♪ >> sherman alexei will be joining us at our website, billmoyers.com, for a live web chat this coming tuesday, that's april 16th, at 1pm, eastern time. you can submit your questions on

the website or at our facebook page. i'll see you there and i'll see you here, next time. >> announcer: don't wait a week to get more moyers. visit billmoyers.com for exclusive blogs essays and video features. this episode of moyers and company is available on dvd for $19.95. to order call 1-800-336-1917 or write to the address on your screen. >> announcer, funding is provided by, carnegie corporation of new york, celebrating 100 years of philanthropy, and committed to

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in the sweeping wilderness of yellowstone, the grizzly once ruled alone. unmatched in size and strength, no creature could challenge the mighty bear. then came the return of a formidable rival... tall, rangy wolves from the north now stake their claim to yellowstone. and somewhere in the back country, an epic battle unfolds. it's a clash of wills --

and opposing skills -- that echoes all through yellowstone. in the cauldron of this wilderness, the grizzly has the most to lose. will wolves be the new masters of yellowstone? or can the grizzly keep its kingdom and emerge the victor here? "nature" is made possible in part by...

leave it untouched by your presence, capture its image and preserve it forever. canon -- living and working together to appreciate today and care for tomorrow. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. it's spring in the northwest corner of wyoming. the year is about to begin for the grizzlies of yellowstone.

by early march, bears begin to emerge from their long winter's nap. [ geese honking ] they may not have eaten a thing for four or five months -- and with snow still deep, a female and three cubs search for a winterkill. otters have been out all winter, slipping and sliding between streams, looking for patches of open water.

they're kept under close watch by a coyote. he's on a constant search for food. this is a world of predators, scavengers, and opportunists. in the thawing surface layer of ice, the grizzlies find a strange windfall. entombed in the ice all winter, frozen fish are the first banquet of the year for the bears. while the bears search for another easy meal, the wolves of the hayden pack gather to feast on the rewards of their own hard work.

but a bold young bear has found their carcass, and a grizzly is accustomed to taking what he wants. the hayden wolves size up the situation. the pack is nine wolves strong, and the bear... is not as big as he could be. he's tried to bury the carcass, and defends it from the center of his earthworks. it's his strength against their speed, but the wolves seem to think they can take him.

the haydens prove to be more than the young bear can handle, this time. bears or wolves -- it makes no difference to the ravens. they always make their point -- but manage to stay above the competition. bison will face both wolves and bears over the course of their lives, but the first challenge for newborn calves

is just keeping up with their mothers. they're on their way to summer pastures, and for the calves, it's sink or swim. instinctively, the calves seek shelter next to their mothers. but the waters are cold and fast -- too fast for the tiny calves. one has been swept into a logjam, and is in real trouble. his mother has suddenly realized what's happening.

the calf breaks free, but is not out of danger. calves often lose their mothers during river crossings, and without her, he can't survive. this calf is a lucky one. he's safe, though utterly exhausted. the yellowstone river was just the first of many perils to come. a grizzly is following behind them, and for the bear, it's hunting season.

yellowstone's 3,500 bison are the largest free-ranging bison herd in the world. as they gather on the greening meadows of hayden valley, the old frontier looks very much alive. it's a scene one old grizzly has witnessed many times. this rugged veteran has roamed yellowstone for almost 20 years, long before wolves were brought back to the park. he is bear number 211, known to bear watchers as "scarface." in his youth, he hunted bison in this great valley. now, he leaves such high risk work to a younger generation.

the bear has no advantage of surprise -- yet he suddenly swings into action. the chase is just youthful exuberance -- there's not much hope of success. the bear will need a better strategy, but a truly devious plan is a coyote's specialty. he's so small, no one takes him seriously.

he tests a calf. this one's big and strong. then, he finds a smaller one. he pretends to play -- but this is no game. if the coyote can coax the calf off by itself, he has every intention of killing it. one bite could cripple the calf.

[ bison grunting ] but some motherly backup puts an end to that. another grizzly is on the calving grounds -- and this one has perfected his craft. the grizzly uses his top speed of 35 miles per hour to separate a calf from its mother. and though the bison weighs twice as much as the bear, she's young, and undone by the grizzly's aggression. she hesitates -- and her calf is lost.

for hunters and hunted alike, each encounter in yellowstone presents a critical choice. what is brave one moment is foolish the next. to fight or to flee -- all of life hangs on the decision. with two wolves out on the prowl, a mother elk weighs her options carefully.

the wolves have seen her but not her calf. it's too young to outrun the wolves. its only defense is to hide and keep completely still. its mother heads straight for the wolves. [ elk calls ] her purpose is to distract them, to keep their attention entirely on her.

again and again, she charges -- then invites them to chase her, using the river as a safe retreat. she can play this game against two wolves. she would never attempt this with an entire wolf pack. frustrated, the wolves give up.

the calf owes its life to the tactics and the courage of its mother. motherhood, even for a grizzly bear, is a test of character. it's june, and a spring snow squall has kicked up. but the bear and her cub are confronting more than the weather. wolves from the druid pack have caught them out in the open. in the tug of war between grizzlies and wolves, the wolves attack where they can. they are after the cub.

if they can kill it, they will eliminate a future rival. she's not a big bear, but she stands her ground. the wolves won't risk an injury. then, suddenly, it's over. the wolves make a decision, and the bears are free to go. as the two dominant predators in yellowstone, grizzlies and wolves make life hard for each other.

the cub is vulnerable to the wolves now. if he survives to become a really big bear, the tables will turn. but he will be a cub for a long time yet, and growing up is a full-time job. out along the edge of the yellowstone river, sandhill cranes are announcing their territories. now, it's the bears' turn to cause trouble. the cranes try to shoo them away. for the cub, it's just an adventure.

things are even more interesting with a brother or sister. cubs can turn anything into a toy -- even a bison pie. every game lets them discover what they can do, and their mother is always there to supervise.

for grizzlies, these are the days of family life. they'll spend two and a half years under the constant care of their mother. then the cubs will be big enough to go their separate ways and travel through yellowstone alone. until then, she is everything they need. a wolf's lifestyle couldn't be more different. wolf pups are used to large families. there are five pups in the average litter. at one month old, they begin to venture away from the den.

their mother is the alpha female, the white wolf with the research collar. but they have other guardians, too -- older brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles. a member of the family is always in attendance. when the pups grow up, many will disperse to other packs, looking for a place to belong. wolves will always be drawn to each other's company. a grizzly ambles along a trail on his solitary way above the den. it's old scarface. he probably means the pups no harm, but he's come way too close for the wolves' comfort. the adults treat him as a serious threat.

it's the pups' first encounter with a bear, and their elders have shown them something valuable -- together, they can challenge a grizzly... and defeat it. as for scarface, he hasn't lived this long without knowing how to avoid real conflict.

by the end of june, the high country is bright with color. [ bird singing ] summer residents are settling in. they're claiming territories, building homes, finding partners. even grizzlies get caught up in the social scene. it's the mating season. a courting couple could be mistaken for youngsters playing. but for grizzlies, this is romance. once she has accepted him, they will wrestle and play and mate many times, staying together for ten days or so.

but their devotion will be fleeting -- enduring bonds are not in their nature. yet while it lasts, they share a moment of tenderness grizzlies seldom display. [ lowing ] while the mating season brings solitary grizzlies together, it sends the companionable bison into an uproar.

bulls are built for the battles of the rut. they wield their massive heads as both weapon and defense. they must protect their own bodies as they twist and turn, pressing for an advantage. they are one-ton warriors, and each breeding season, more than a few are fatally wounded.

this young bull must have taken on more than his match and has suffered a head injury. round and round he turns, unable to find his way forward. then, remarkably, he makes it to solid ground. bison are as tough as they come.

days later, the injured bull staggers on, alone but still alive. when a bison does go down in combat, a grizzly wins. it's one of the rare carcasses not supplied by wolves. a bear this size would take a lot for wolves to run off -- that's a job for another grizzly. several big males may wander in overlapping ranges, and they are certain to have crossed paths before. they both look intimidating to our eyes,

but the bears are keenly aware of each other's strengths and weaknesses. [ howling ] the hayden wolves have found the carcass and call for reinforcements. they need to rally the entire pack to challenge such a bear. [ ravens croaking ] ravens also call each other in. they're often the first to spot a carcass, but they wait for someone else to break it open. the wolf's calls are going unanswered. the pack is too far flung, and with no chance to dominate the carcass, the wolves just drift away.

but a grizzly's toughest competition isn't from wolves at all. his ultimate challenge comes when he meets an equal -- and there's only one way to find out who's stronger. [ growling ]