this sunday -- you say you want a revolution? well, you've got one in the republican party. >> i think i shocked some of you, huh? >> the gop proving they can decapitate their leadership. now can they prove they can lead? plus, the democrats, biden is still deciding, clinton is still waffling, and sanders is stl speaking out. >> people will have to contrast my consistency and my willingness to stand up to wall street and corporations, big corporations. >> my interview with the democratic insurgent. and after supporting the president's asian trade deal

now opposes it, sort of. may have been smart short-term politics, but is it blatant opportunism? joining me this morning are radio talk show host hugh hewitt, eugene robinson of "the washington post," kathleen parker of "the washington post," and nathan gonzales of the nathan and gonzales political report. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. if you're one of those who does want a revolution, guess what? i think the two parties have two of them for you. the democratic left and the republican right are pulling away from the center. bernie sanders' strong polling is frustrating the hillary clinton captain and forcing her to switch positions and move to the left. we'll have my interview with bernie sanders coming up in a few minutes. on the republican side, the revolt by conservative house members has thrown the party, at least in congress, into disarray. having already defeated majority leader eric cantor and forced

out speaker bane, they claimed their third victim this week when kevin mccarthy was forced out of the race for speaker. >> i think i shocked some of >> reporter: a republican fight between conservatives and the establishment that's been brewing for a generation exploded again, and this week it took another casualty. >> clearly the establishment lost today. >> quite the fall from grace for this establishment. it was just five years ago that these three men led the republicans back into power. and now one by one they've been pushed out. it started in june of last year. >> obviously we came up short. >> my, oh, my, what a wonderful day. >> this will be the best footstep -- i messed it up. >> two of the fallen were self-described young guns. the third, congressman paul ryan, is being aggressively drafted to do the job of speaker, even by his competition. >> paul ryan got into the race, of course i'd support him. >> right now i just want to make

>> as ryan rises so, too, is ire rising among skeptical conservatives with one calling ryan a, quote, dangerous pick. another, radio host laura ingram tweeted friday, "are they talking tact same paul ryan who once lost a vp debate to joe biden?" >> some of my conservative friends remember the plea frgs the wall street bailout. i would want to talk to paul ryan about why he kicked conservatives off the budget committee. >> reporter: for decades republicans picked the guy next in line to be the party's standard-bearer. now the conservative anger that propelled the party to victory in 2010 is reshaping it. with their largest majority in the house since the 1920s, republicans are still struggling to govern themselves. 72% of republican voters say they're dissatisfied with their own leaders in congress. >> they get elected, saying one thing, and then they get there and don't follow through on promises.

there drink the water. they become addicted to whatever. >> when you get to that point of the establishment, republican or democrat, there's very little difference. >> reporter: and on the 2016 campaign trail, the grassroots has so far rejected republicans with deep political resumes, preferring self-declared outsiders. after mccarthy's fall, those outsiders rush to declare victory. >> this is washington. it's in utter panic. >> they're give megaa lot of credit for that dautz i said you really need somebody very tough and very smart. >> reporter: hoping to become the leader of a republican party still searching for one. >> well, to discuss what ted cruz called utter panic inside the republican party, i'm joined by two strong voices representing two different wings of the party inside the house. david bratt of virginia arguably fired the first shot of the conservative revolution, the most recent one within congress, with his primary defeat of then house majority leader eric

cantor in june of 2014. also with us is charlie dent of pennsylvania, a strong moderate voice within the party and actually remits one of the few swing districts left in congress. president obama carried his district in 2008 and mitt romney narrow licaried it in 2012. welcome to both of you. >> thank you. >> congressman, you're a member of the freedom caucus. what is it that you want and what is it that speaker boehner, kevin mccarthy, and eric cantor haven't delivered? >> they all ran on a pledge to america and, just like your 72% of the folks out there in the real world, say we make these promises when we run but when we get up here we're called the establishment. we want what the american people want. all federal revenues will be spent in 11 years on just entitlement programs and interest on the debt. there will not be one dollar left for the military, education, transportation, and

all running government. so the american people want us to make progress on that. plus president obama, when i came in last year in november, we had the unconstitutional amnesty. our leadership said we're going to fight tooth and nail on that thing. it's unconstitutional. president obama said it 20 times on tv. then you have overreach on all sorts of dodds frank, a bad iran deal. the people said step up and make the case for us, and that's what we want to do. >> congressman charlie dent, your response to him particularly on spending issues would be you've done what you can with a democratic president. is that right? >> that's correct, but in order to address all the policy issued david just discussed, we have to get back to functionality. we have to prove to the american people we can govern, make sure the government is funded, we don't default on our obligation, have to take care of transportation issues, et cetera. to the extent we are dysfunctional we can't address

these major policy issues. we need to expand the governance wing of the republican party, those who have the capacity to say yes. what we see in washington are a lot of people that vote no and then say yes. we skau sau it on the the continuing resolution a few weeks ago and we seal psi et again. >> you were nodding, nod, nod, then no, no, no. >> the governing in this place spending. that's not what governing means to the american people. governing means getting the ship going in the right direction. we have this budget chaos every year right before christmas. we have a cr coming up, we'll fund it, then an omni in -- >> a lot of washington speak. short-term budget deal or a long-term compromise. >> right. and so the point is, gegsz what, it's going to be utter chaos, the left's going to throw in all the toys they want into the sink, the right will throw it in. this was orchestrated on purpose. the budget committee finished its work back in april, may. we voted the next step in the

budget process that goes to appropriations. 12 bills. we passed five, the senate only one. the senate is a major problem, but we shouldn't be waving the white flag ahead of time. charlie is saying we should give in and cave because we don't have the votes in the senate. the compromise comes later. >> congressman brat, at the end of the day, the conservative movement is not a majority. you don't necessarily eve haven't a governing majority inside the house. so if you don't have that, how do you -- when do you say, okay, i'm getting 50% of what i want and it's the best i can do to go to the campaign trail so i can elect a republican president. >> disagree with the premise. we do have a majority. last week on the cr 150 republicans voted against leadership's budget. the press is the only one that talks about these 40 guys. washington post" is chaos. the only chaos up here is on k street and democrats are freaking out because if we

budget, even mccain knew it. we had seven years in a row, $500 billion deficits. it's terrible. >> congressman dent, one of i think congressman brat's and other people's complaints, over half of the republican m caucus has been elected in the last six years. their complaint is, you know what, we get here and we don't have an opportunity to actually vote on the change, vote son some of the issues that we would like. leadership tells us what we can or can't do. we don't get that opportunity to lose, essentially. maybe we will lose, maybe leadership is right, be, you do it. what do you say to him on that? >> i think the leadership has been frankly very accommodating to those members, you know, who don't vote for the bills at the end of the process. this happens routinely. i think a number of us have had enough of it. david just mentioned 150 republicans voted against the continuing resolution. i can tell you that over half the republican caucus strongly resolution. >> why?

because, again, we ear back to hope yes, vote no. they'd rather the 91 of us take the flak and they can go home and tell folks they stood strong. this is a bill, by the way, that level funded the government for 2 1/2 months. that's all it did. >> i want to go back to the press. i'm bringing in my panel to join in. eugene washington from "the washington post," hugh hewitt, nathan gonzales, who both of you had an interview with before you garnered office, and kathleen from "the washington post." fire away. >> pox on both your wings. i'm desperately hoping paul ryan is praying about it and accepts this. yesterday a russian jet was shot down in turkey, almost 100 people killed in ankara, turkey. how dare you with the american people waiting for leadership paralyze the house? charlie, you have to stop going on cnn and blasting david, and david, there are like 15 of you people. the freedom conference is like 15 people. paul ryan is liked by 225 republicans.

get with the program, guys. >> how do you know we're not on the program? i mean, you're doing -- >> if he wins a conference, will you support his agenda? >> we have a constitution as a country. i have five policy questions. >> will you support him? >> it's not that easy. if he goes with that, we'll give him a strong look. >> you're holding the caucus hostage. >> the answer is yes, i will support paul ryan. but paul ryan is also a very smart man. the underlying governing and political dynamic of the house has not changed. paul ryan, if he becomes speaker, i hope he does, what will happen is he'll have to make accommodations and collaborate with the democrats to pass a debt ceiling, pass a budge ut t agreement and om any mus appropriations deal. if he does those things, he'll have his legs taken out by some of his own members. if we go with the status quo, the house will continue to be mired in this paralysis and the

speaker would be weaker. he'll have the same problems john boehner had and kevin mccarthy was about to experience. >> gene robinson. >> congressman brat, your litany of complaints about the obama years, obamacare, immigration, all the things you complained about, illustrate that you cannot set the national agenda from the house of representatives. that cannot be done. you have to win the white house. are you not with the freedom caucus essentially making it less likely that there will be a republican president-elected next year and thus less likely national agenda? >> absolutely not. we have a pox on both of us coming from d.c. talking heads. >> california. >> what everybody here is missing arthe objective economic numbers. we have a guaranteed financial crisis coming up in 11 years and we're making the american people -- you want my response? i follow the american people. charlie here wants us to follow like a caucus or whatever.

conference for voting our conscience. >> i don't want to do that. >> you're on record last week saying it. >> that's an outrageous thing to say. >> i did say. absolutely true. >> not true. >> i think they should be punished, in quotes. >> i said we shouldn't marginalize people who want to be governed. hugh raised the issue of the world being on fire. shutting down the government in the middle of this would be a terrible thing. need us to provide certain stability. he's right. the world is on fire. so we have to get our act together. but for those who don't want to govern we have to establish bipartisan coalitions -- >> there you go again. you want nancy pelosi to help determine our speaker for the republican conference. >> no, i want -- >> our own leadership. >> how do you know that? i've never said that. >> you're missing it, charlie. i just said i will support if

policy that the american people want. you want nancy pelosi to be speaking our -- and kick conservatives out of our own conference. unbelievable. >> when you sided with nancy pelosi on the dhs appropriations bill, you sided with nancy pelosi on the iran disapproval resolution. >> charlie, you're trying to -- >> you sided with her on trade. >> can i get in here? >> carlie, this week is doing a discharge petition with 40 republicans to go with nancy pelosi to get the export/import bank back into play this week going around the whole -- >> i'll tell you why. >> going against the whole committee structure of the republican conference that we're trying to bring -- >> i'm going to jump in here. final question here, when do you need to hear from paul ryan about whether he's in or not? does it need to happen in the next 24, 48 hours? >> i don't think it has to happen in the next 24, 48 hours. this is a tough decision. paul is a smart guy. may i address the discharge petition? >> very quickly. very fast. >> some of us, the governing

toed a vance good legislation. others want to use the process to obstruct good legislation. >> croneyism. >> we'll save a lot of jobs in pennsylvania. we send locomotives to foreign country diminishes. >> free market. >> congressman brat, are you okay with kevin mccarthy staying as majority leader? >> absolutely. we have good talks with him. came in and talked with us. the whole conference was making great progress towards reforms we were taushging about. kevin was yes, yes, yes on that. the talking points in this war is overblown. i promise -- >> i didn't get a turn. >> you're going to get a turn later in the show. these guys have to get going. thank you both. congressman brat, congressman dent, i really think viewers got an understanding of the differences inpseudoyour -- appreciate it. when we come back, the battle on the democratic side, [ male announcer ]

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latest nbc news, "wall street journal" marist poll. hillary clinton hillary clinton in a two-way race up 11 points. what happens when it's three way? joe biden starts in third place sitting at 22%. look what happens to hillary clinton's double digit lead. it goes to single digits. 33-28. clearly biden pulls more from clinton than sanders. guess that? same story in new hampshire. of course in our new hampshire poll we had sanders ahead in the two-way race, 48%, 39%. almost a double digit lead. watch what happens when you toss in biden. he takes more from hillary clinton. biden is in third, 18. but look at this, hillary clinton loses double digit support and bernie sanders loses five or six points but his overall lead gets to double digits. so what does this all mean? we know a couple of things. hillary clinton both in votes, candidacy. but number two, if biden gets in

front-runner for the democratic nomination is bernie sanders? it's clear sanders supporters are willing to stick with sanders more son so than clinton supporters. up next, my interview with that man just now that could be the biggest beneficiary of joe biden getting in, bernie sanders. are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now...

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we are back, we know las vegas is home of big-time boxing, actually i think "meet the press" will be known far show. on tuesday, vegas will be hosting a different kind of matchup, the first democratic presidential debate. it's a moment for hillary clinton, a big one for her who needs to prove she is still a race. she'll have to face down independent senator bernie sanders who is punching above his weight class, particularly in iowa and new hampshire. and on friday i sat down with the man planning to start what he's been describing as a political revolution and i began by asking what is different about his revolution, where can he succeed where president obama and his hope and change revolution could not. >> it's a very fair question and let me tell you i have enormous respect for barack obama, he's a friend of mine, i campaigned for him, he helped me get elected and i work with him on many, many issues. and also let's be clear that

are very, very partisan and refuse to acknowledge reality, our economy today is a heck of a lot better than it was when george w. bush left office and we were losing 800,000 jobs a month. but here is the difference in the political outlook between the president and myself. what i since that the power of corporate america -- wall street, the corporate media -- is so great that real change to transform our country does not take place unless millions of people stand up and say loudly states government has to represent all of us, not just the top 1%. no president, not bernie sanders, brook, hillary clinton, will accomplish that unless millions of people stand up and say "you guys are not going to get it all. 50% of all new income won't go to the top 1%, we won't have incredible grotesque levels of income, wealth and equality."

you said you can't do it as president- >> i said you can't do it alone. a president can lead that effort. >> i'll jump to a facebook question we got for you. she says "bernie, i like you and your ideas but how will you get congress to support your agenda? they blocked president obama on a lot. your agenda is even further left than president obama." what do you say to that? >> very fair question and i say that it won't be that my personality is better than barack obama's in negotiating with whoever the speaker of the house may be, if they ever come up with a speaker or mitch mcconnell. and by the way, i hope by a political revolution we will be substantially increasing voter turnout. democrats do well, chuck, when a lot of people vote and republicans lose. >> but you know the likelihood is the house probably -- if you're elected president, you're right, you'll bring a democratic senate. >> you may well be right. all right, what do we do? this is what you do.

you say to the speaker of the house "hey, you don't want to negotiate with me? i think we should make public colleges and universities tuition free and i think we should pay for a tax on wall street speculation." now, do i think the republican speaker of the house will agree with me? no, i don't think so. but i think he'll have to look out the window and see a million young people demonstrating and marching in washington and saying you know what? we want to see affordability in college. >> barack obama said this. >> but here's the difference -- >> he said -- i remember the whole idea of what they called it organizing for america that they were going to create a ledge legislative that when they were blocked, it didn't happen. >> i think what ended up happen is because the president because he happens to be a decent guy thought he could sit down with the republican leadership and work out some fair compromises. the truth is, number one, they never had any intention to compromise. but number two, more importantly, you have to be prepared to mobilize people to take on these big money

interests. but you are right. i think we can do it and that's what the bully pulpit is about and that's what organizing effort is about and that's what this campaign is about. we're doing that, chuck. everyday i read in the paper things that are happening place in this country, whether spontaneous outburst of support for us and that is what we have to mobilize. the bottom line is unless turnout becomes much higher we lose unless people are organized and politically con nshs a scious in a way that does not exist today, we won't transform america the way we have to. >> you've always been hesitant to contrast yourself with secretary clinton, but you have -- you make certain subtle differences by saying on some of these issues where she now agrees with you you welcome her over and emphasize you've had these positions for a long time. why does -- why should that matter? why should that matter to a voter that you've held that position for much longer say on tpp than secretary clinton? >> i'll tell you why it should

matter. and let me be very clear,er happen to respect and like hillary clinton so i don't get into personal attacks, you know that. but are there differences of opinion that should be discussed? of course, that's what the election is about. to answer your question, what it's about is at a time when so few have so much and wn the big money interests have so much political power the real most important question is who is prepared to mobilize the american people to stand up to these very powerful and wealthy special interests? whose track record for the last 25 years has been to say to wall street, you know what? we are going to have to break up the large financial institutions. >> so this is a trust issue. you're basically saying "i've been there so you can trust i'll never leave that fight." with somebody else who gets their late you think it's perhaps -- >> keystone pipeline. i believe that climate change is the great global crisis that we

from day one i opposed the keystone pipeline because i believe that if you're serious about climate change you don't encourage the excavation and transportation of very dirty oil. that was my view from day one. the tpp, i believe that our trade policies going way back when, i voted against nafta, cafta, i think they have been a disaster for the american worker, corporations shut down here and move abroad. so people will have to contrast my consistency and willingness to stand up to wall street and big corporations with the secretary. >> let's go into some issues. let's start with tpp. you have been against every single trade agreement. >> yes. >> i had a democrat say to me yesterday if you can't be for this trade athen there's no trade agreement you can support. what do you say to that? >> absolutely wrong. this is a senior democrat told you that? >> yes, sir. >> that's why the republicans control the house and the senate. because what working people understand that after nafta,

capita, pntr with china, we have lost millions of decent paying jobs, since 200160,000 factories in america have been shut down, we're in a race to the bottom where our wages are going down. is all of that atributable to trade? no. is a lot of it, yes. yes. >> trade agreement was written by corporate america and the pharmaceutical industry and wall street. that's what this is about. i do not want american workers to compete against people in vietnam who make 56 cents an hour for a "60 minutes" imum wage. >> so there's never been a trade agreement this country has negotiated with you've been comfortable with? >> that's correct. >> let me move to foreign policy. there's news this week. the pentagon has announced they are no longer doing this training program for the moderate rebels that we were -- good idea? >> it failed. i think the president acknowledged that. syria is a quagmire inside of a quagmire.

we all want to see removed from office you have the barbaric isis people who do their atrocities every other day. you now have russia involved in the situation as well. i think what the president has tried to do is thread a very, very difficult needle. that is keep american troops from engaging in combat and getting killed there and i think that is the right thing to do so i think we continue to try to do everything we can focusing primarily, by the way, as bad as assad is, focusing on trying to defeat isis. and let me say this, and i don't know -- >> you didn't support his isis program. you didn't vote to authorize it. why is that? >> well, because i am worried about american troops getting sucked into a never ending war in the middle east and particularly in iraq and syria. but let me also say this, this is the other reason why i've been very hesitant. i don't think the united states

can or should be doing it alone. not our troops who -- i've gone to too many funerals in the state of vermont, nor our taxpayers, the wars in afghanistan, iraq, cost us 44-trillion to $6 trillion. i believe very strongly that saudi arabia, kuwait, qatar, they're going to have to get their hands dirty as well. they don't like isis, let them start putting troops on the saudi arabia, people don't know this, has the third-largest defense budget in the entire world and i found it ironic that they were asking american troops to get engaged on the ground. >> gulf war one we got them to pay for it. should we be doing that? >> it's more than pay. >> you want to see them put blood interest? >> yeah, that's exactly right. >> not just treasure? >> that's exactly what i think. >> what does counterterrorism look like in a sanders administration? drones, forces, what does it look like? >> all of that and more. >> you're okay with the drone? >> drone is a weapon.

when it works badly it is terrible and it is counterproductive. when you blow up a facility or building which kills women and children, you know what? it's terrible. >> but you're comfortable with the idea of using drones if you think you've isolated an important terrorist? >> yes. >> so that continues? >> yes. and look we all know that there are people as of this moment plotting against the united states. we have to be vigorous in protecting our country, no question about it. >> let's talk about the gun issue. you've called for moderation saying you think you can bring both sides together. >> i wouldn't use the word moderation, not quite the right word. this is what i believe. i come from a state that has virtually no gun control and yet at political peril i voted for an instant background check which i want to see strengthened and asserted. i voted to end the so-called gun show loophole. what i did say is that we keep

shouting at each other, which has been going on 230r years, and going nowhere. and kids on campuses and children in schools are being slaughtered. what i think there needs to be is a dialogue. here's what i do believe, chuck. i believe what i would call common sense gun reform plus a revolution in mental health making sure if people are having a nervous breakdown or suicidal or homicidal they get the care they need when they need it. i think the vast majority of the american people can support an agenda composed of those features. >> you joked about the idea when people call you a socialist you say yes i'm going to make everybody wear the same color pajamas. >> especially you. i have a pair just for you. >> and then the other day i noticed you said "don't use the word socialist, i'm going to say i'm a progressive." are you pushing back on the idea or -- >> look, when one of your republican colleagues gets on the show and say "are you a capitalist?"

have you ever referred to them as a capitalist? >> are you a capitalist? >> no, i'm a democratic socialist. but what i mean is i've been elected as an independent throughout my political career. i am running now in the democratic nomination process and will support -- i hope to win, i expect to win -- >> but you'll support the democratic nominee. >> i will >> and do you have a short list for running mate if you get the nomination? >> you need another job? >> would you consider -- i'm -- in all seriousness. >> we started this campaign i was 359% in the polls. now we're ahead in some states and making progress. before i start worrying about who my vice president will be, let me win this thing. >> senator sanders, good luck on the trail. stay safe out there. >> thank you very much. you can see my complete interview with bernie sanders unedited on our web site including him hinting he might be willing to reconsider his

you can find that unedited interview, mete etthepressnbc.com. when we come back, hillary clinton defended the tpp trade this is a story about doers, the artificial heart, electric guitars and rockets to the moon. it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. doers built this country.

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same-sex marriage, tough prison sentencing, the keystone pipeline and her decision to come out against the big asian trade deal. >> what i know about it as of today i am not in favor of what i have learned about it. i don't have the text. we don't the details. i don't believe it's going to meet the high bar i have set. >> the problem, to borrow a recent political cliche, she was for it before she was against it. and really for it. as cnn calculate add few months ago, clinton pushed and praised the tpp trade deal on at least 45 separate occasions. in fact, in her book "hard choices" just published last year she said this "the tpp became the signature economic pillar of our strategy in asia." we're going to get to that in a moment and later a little fun

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welcome back. let's have a look at this. two weeks ago, even before she did an about face on the trade deal, i asked hillary clinton if she was changing some of her positions for political expediency. >> i just don't think that reflects either my assessment of issues and i don't think it reflects how people who are thoughtful conduct their lives. if we don't learn, if we don't make decisions based on the best information we have available, well, you know, that's regrettable. i'm not going to sit here and tell people that i make up my mind. that's the republicans. they make up their mind. >> let's bring in the panel. radio talk show host hugh

"washington post," kathleen parker of the "washington post" aund flay than and nathan gonzalez. when she gave that answer, i asked her about tpp and she wasn't ready to answer but it felt like she was laying the ground work. >> well, her question are you doing thing for political expedience, she's not going to say "yes, i'm trying to win sanders." of course she is. but i think you can give her the benefit of the doubt but it's plausible she has change herd mind based on legitimate concerns because whatever was happening before when she was secretary of state representing the obama administration may have shifted to some extent. as she said she doesn't know because she hasn't seen the details yet. so giving her the benefit of the doubt -- >> are you? >> for now, for this moment. i'm not really opposed to people changing their minds. i'm much more concerned with people who never change their minds no matter what new information is available. >> nathan gonzalez, i had -- peter hart described this to me as a decision about the next three months, not a decision

about the next 13 months. fair? >> well, peter hart is one of the best in the business. i think the first step for hillary clinton is winning the nomination and democrats are extremely confident in a general election, they believe the demographics are working in their favor, the electorate is working in their favor so if you could say this is for three months to gain the nomination, secretary clinton and her team would take that because a general election they feel very, very good. >> hugh hewitt, isn't that familiar. remember that was the stewart stevens' response, every time someone said "you're hurting yourself in the general election with these primary positions in 2011" and lo and behold he hurt himself in the general election. >> but it's the least of her problems. in the washington "beacon" yesterday alanna goodman ran a story about how hillary and sid blumenthal violated the intelligence identities act of 50 ucs 421. nominating hillary clinton would be like -- >> legal code. >> it would be like launching a nitroglycerin juggling marathon forthe democrats.

>> you buy is this this? >> i'm not so sure. . you gave the al pa get soup of alleged violations. in fact my guess is this is not going to amount to very much. it will be a nagging problem for her. i haven't heard anything yet that seems to me to be -- to guarantee some sort of long and embarrassing legal process. we'll see. >> did she write columns on >> i might have. i might have occasionally. >> before i leave this topic, hugh, we had two pieces of news over the last week about the benghazi committee that hillary clinton is ecstatic over. one is the infamous now kevin mccarthy comments and someone this whistle blower where there's -- the disagreement is somebody says he was fired because he wasn't targeting hillary clinton enough by the republicans running the committee and the republicans on the committee said they fired him because he was targeting hillary clinton too much. they disagree on who fired whom and who was doing what but they agree that hillary clinton was being targeted.

doesn't that hurt the committee? >> it's a big story. one of the reasons the house leadership needs to get resolved is october 22 is there's a hearing date and they need to bring order being to that committee which has been run well for two years and it's being sacrifice in the cast for the house leadership. >> before we leave the democrats i want to bring it to joe biden. peter hart had an interesting -- joe biden will make a decision soon, we think. peter hart had an interesting way to describe a biden candidacy. >> if he was to ask me i would say announce you will run for one term and your only objective is to pull the nation together. there has to be a reason for him to run. and division. >> kathleen, his point is he's got to -- he's got to have something to run on and so peter's idea is run on uniting the country. that's what makes you different than hillary clinton without clinton. >> and that's what got barack obama in office if you recall. he has that talent.

people because he's so likable, he's so appealing and he's gone through this tragedy that yes you can't point to that as the reason for running but it will be a factor the way people perceive him and accept him under other circumstances. idea. if he says that, that gives some validity to the premise he's trying to help the country get back on its feet together. >> nathan, he has to say decide. believe it or not. there's a ballot deadline in october he has to meet. i'm told if a week from now we don't know the decision, the decision is probably no. >> if vice president biden gets in the race he will be a credible nominee but i don't see the structural or ideological space for him to do it. democrats love joe biden. they love joe biden. i think a lot of them still want hunk to be president before him. let's move to the republican side of the aisle. let's stick to the speaker race. i have to just say wow. i think we saw with dave brat and charlie dent, hugh, do you feel like that viewers now know,

americans now know this is -- that was republican versus republican. >> if i were paul ryan -- and i'm hoping that the packers beat the rams today so he's in a good mood because i want him to agree to be the speaker -- i would ask kathy mcmorris rogers and peter, the most respected republicans in the house, you bring in general mcchrystal, condi rice, people like larry arn and bill kristol and at the end of it paul ryan says here are my terms, i will lead if you will give me 230 votes and they should vote for him and he should lead. he is the guy to lead. we need him to lead. >> kathleen just wrote "don't do it, paul." >> he would be a great speaker. he has the qualifications for the job and he's well like and respected. he's the brainy one in the party. anyway, there's going to do the same thing. the freedom caucus folks will do the same thing to him they've done to everyone else because eventually he will -- whoever said it, i think it was congressman dent. he will have to have

he will eventually face these debt ceilings, these other benchmarks that they're going to fight him on. so i've said don't run because why would you? why would you walk into that? >> and why if you think paul ryan is such a promising figure and he says the most responsible and intelligent and promising guy in the house on the republican side, why would you want him to have this job right now? you need somebody in there that's just a sacrificial lamb to try to bring order to this cause of action and maybe set it up for somebody like paul ryan to preside over a working majority. >> i would like to nominate donald trump as speaker of the house since you don't to be a member of congress to be speaker and i think he could get things sort of settled. >> well, it would be -- >> some say ted cruz is already speaker. >> you did the transition to ted cruz. ted cruz is the presidential -- potential presidential front-runner we don't talk about it will lately. there's been a marco rubio boom, we talk about jeb bush, trump,

fiorina, carson, cruz has been in cruise control, raised double the amount of money, maybe the total of anybody. ted cruz, he's a plausible potential front-runner isn't he? >> you have to put ted cruz in the top tier. i think ted cruz is more likely to be the nominee than donald trump is even though the polls don't currently reflect that. but he's probably the one on the inside holding elected office that is best able to articulate and tap into this outsider message compared with the others. >> you know who agrees with you on trump versus cruz? ted cruz. take a listen. >> i think that's right. i think in time i don't believe donald is going to be the nominee and i think in time the lion's share of his supporters end up with us. >> hugh hewitt? ted cruz -- does he inherit the trump co-sfligs is that enough to win the nomination? >> he does. he doubled marco rubio in fund raising in q-3. he has 23 million bucks in the bank. he has the best organization. none of them are out of it, i have no favorites but that last

rubio, cruz, carly fiorina are three who will be there, along with john kasich and jeb bush. wherever we get down -- and if donald stays in, those are the six people who have the most plausible path. >> this is a party that wants an outsider badly and does feel like fiorina, carson and trump, do they have the discipline and infrastructure to survive? i don't know. but cruz does. >> well, cruz does. position. but he's not an actual outsider. he is an actual u.s. senator and he's going to try to convince everybody that he's not, but he is. he's a u.s. senator. that counts. >> but he's been an outsider to his own party. >> well that's true. certainly alienated his party but he is a technical insider. i think that counts. at least so far in this primary season. more than half the party says they want somebody who has never been elected nothing. that's where we are. >> all right. well we will leave it there but i think we are on the verge of a cruz -- the cruz moment is coming. back in just 45 seconds, we

promise, with our end game segment. and wait until you see what mike bloomberg said about running for president -- here's a hint, he didn't exactly say no. around the house, right? so set rules for your kids when they go online: don' t be a cyberbully. no racy selfies. and remember everyone can see everything you post, even grandma. rules keep kids safe online.

>> will you definitively rule 2016? >> i'm very flattered that people would ask, you would ask. but the truth of the matter is i'm happy doing two things -- running my company and working with the united nations and the u.s. government on climate change and that's what we're here to talk about. >> sherman snesk. >> say again? >> you going to be shermanesque about this? >> sherman was a general back in the civil war, do you remember that? >> so no shermanesque -- >> we have to focus on climate change. >> a little history lesson if you don't know. general sherman, he said if nominatedly not run and if i winly not serve. that was what was known as the

nathan gonzalez, he did not give that answer. he wants to leave the door open on purpose. >> even when politicians say no, they say no right up to the point where they say yes. getting inside a politician's shed a dangerous place to be. time is ticking. there is a timeline where you have to get into a race and make a decision and if you ask me if i think he's going to do it, i say no. >> but he wants the threat out there. >> oh, please -- >> that's clear what he wants. he wants the threat out there. independent or democrat? >> i have to add general sherman was from ohio, not michigan. if he runs, every republican corks left lose every western state because of his gun control measure so please get in, michael, god bless you. i want paul ryan to be speaker more than you to run but number two is michael bloomberg running for president. >> he looked at running as an independent four years ago and you hear rumors if he would do it maybe he would do it inside a party. >> there's no path for an

independent really. it's very hard. i know that donald trump has looked at this and has decided -- michael bloomberg has more money than donald trump even and doesn't have enough 50 states. you need to do it within a party. so which party? i think the answer is how does republican party today? >> and by the way, kathleen, this comes as we have joe biden thinking about it, you have michael bloomberg and he would be left of center in some form. is this either fear that hillary clinton is struggling or something else? >> well, i think it's -- i think in both cases it's a matter of these individuals thinking they really would be a pretty good president and this is something that they would do if they felt of course joe biden thinks he should be president, he's tried it a couple of times. and as for -- i mean, surely they're watching hillary's numbers and making some judgments along those lines and

she keeps go going down. so why not consider it? i think bloomberg is teasing. just why not toss it out there? >> more people book him and he gets to talk about climate change and guns? >> he was clear that was what he came to talk about. >> nathan, the issue is the middle does feel -- just watch our show today, okay? the middle feels as if you have bernie sanders pulling the democratic party to the left. you have trump and the freedom caucus pulling the republican party to the right. there is this opening. i hear it from voters who say nobody represents me in the middle. >> well, but i think the number of people that say they're independent or open minded or in the middle is a small group. you ask people, you know, are you open minded and you say of course i am. when is the last time you voted for a democrat? well i think for county coroner in 1982. but i think the middle in the general election next november will be about mood, how do they feel about the past eight years of a democratic president? it will be -- which who can ever -- which party can capture

both their bases and bring them together and ride the wave. >> and hillary has said, i mean, secretary clinton has said she wants to continue the good work of barack obama and that's not really a great selling point independents. >> turkey, a nato ally, shot down a russian jet this morning. we have no idea what this world will be like in a year and it's going to be a national security change. it will be so dramatically different a year from now. >> it always happens. on. doll we hear from ryan or biden first? [ laughter ] somebody asked me that today. ryan or biden first? >> i think we probably hear from ryan first. >> i'll parse that statement. before we go, let's have fun because jeb bush gave an interview to our nbc affiliate in des moines and during his visit he tried his hand at being a weather man in front of a green screen, sharing the still on twitter. guess what? green screen and twitter and the internet and photo shop? watch out.

did they have fun. there's jeb with the president et jeb. that's a good one. phone home. right? who doesn't want to touch the hand of god as president. >> yes, well i thought the bushes already had. >> ooh! >> you know what? i don't know if i can top that. >> parse that. >> i was just going to say, i think we have to say that's all for this sunday. not gonna touch that one at all. we'll be back next week because guess what?

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