some of the moral and ethical issues of the day. i'm your host carmen fields. we all know the term, cold cases, usually murder cases that remain unsolved for a long time. when we think of long ago civil rights trials those in connection with the deaths of imt till, edgar,gon and turner about a come to mind but there are many, many others thanks to a project spearheaded by

school of law. some long ago are now getting fresh eyes. take a look at the video segment from the film "trouble i've seen," then i'll introduce you to my special guests. [music] up grades like a law firm. our cases are cold cases. we work to develop the cases and to obtain some measure of

that were affected. >> in april 1953 in willcox county, alabama sheriff jenkins and two deputies invaded the cafe operated by 63-year-old dela mcduff and her husband, william. the lawman claimed they were playing music over midnight on the sheriff. although she was paralyzed in a wheelchair the sheriff beat her with a rubberhose and within an hour she was dead. >> he walked in and said get up old lady and go to bed. she told him she couldn't get up so he hit her across the arm, and over the knees and then her head and by her feet a couple of times. >> so i retrieved the f.b.i. file related to the case from the national archives, i received a citation for it.

witness testimony including people who were in the cafe that evening. >> william mcduffy gave a statement to the f.b.i. >> dock sem striking at one hose weapon. i saw another hit with the weapon in the sheriff's hand. >> but the doctor's statement reads. >> i can definitely state that the cause of death was not brought on by any injury to the head such as a degree this case essentially was a coverup and never went to court. >> for 32 years will cox county, largely black, was the share of the personal empire. he gained notoriety for playing by his own rules, legal or taught. >> jenkins was known for the way he followed the law in will cox county and he

they followed their own roots, not so much what the law said. it was tough on certain people, especially black folks. >> lemay was a good sheriff, but somebody else may have a different kind of an opinion. >> had mcduffy story is in fact is a story of violence, it is a story of secrecy, it is a story of banishment, this repeated violenceing is a large part of what we try to address in our proiect. >> my guest to tell us more about the civil rights and restorative justice project are professor rozoltek gick,

of the research initiative. she's taught at north eastern high school for over 20 years. and tarra dunn, a bolder, colorado native, a graduate of the united states air force academy and she is a second year law student at north eastern university school of law. welcome, ladies. both of you to "higher ground." >> thank you so much for having us. >> professor, i'll start with you. of course, we were only able to use a short excerpt of the film, how was the mcduffy case resolved or has been resolved? >> it's not resolved in the sense there has never been a criminal prosecution at the case but what we've done is restore the story to our history and really give the story a voice and an audience that it really never had, it was one of those untold stories and we're making sure that it is told. >> well i get the civil rights

the project, restorative justice. explain a little more by what is meant by that. >> we mean it in two senses, the first is to restore those stories that aren't known to history, we really think that is a piece of restored justice, it has to happen with these untold murled and untold stories. if they don't get restored we really don't have the justice-sense of what happened during that period of american history and that would be in fact the injustice, but we also do restorative justice in another more practical sense in that gatherings like the one that you saw on the video or other kind of family gatherings or marking of grave stones or changing death certified to indicate people were murdered and that it wasn't an accident, things like that are also measures of restorative justice that we take pride in fostering.

mr. dunn, law student, what drew you to this project? >> well i think it provided an opportunity for me to understand the injustishes that are happening today. you can look back and say well it was a lot worse back then but to really understand where it originated from all of the way down to the micro lev, the local level of police to the macro level of governors it is all a collective effort and this clinic provides an opportunity to really understand that. >> well tell us a little bit of what you are working on now? what is your project, or is it one project or several? >> i'm irking with on one particular case, henry gilbert was a father back in 1947 in troop county, georgia and he was a victim of essentially a custodial lynching.

likely a mob, so it was common back then for the sheriffs or whomever to just open the door and let a mob have the prison instead of letting the law handle it. i got an opportunity go down to georgia. he still has, henry gilbert, he till has living family members, his daughters, who actually never shared his story of what actually happened, so i got to malice of forethought the family members,iate grand kid who never knew the story of how their great grandfather was killed. >> what are the steps in the research? there may not be a trial but on the other side were you able to find any people that were involved in his death? >> we're working on that side now. we've really focused on finding living family members and # # what exactlyp haened

we haven't, we've found contact information for potential people who were involved inch his murder but we have not reached out to them quite yet #. we're kind of waiting on that. >> ok. well our conversation continues after the community calendar, which includes some volunteer opportunities that i

we're back with my guests who are affiliate would the civil rights and restorative just prosject at north eastern university school of law. professors zolgic i've neglected to ask you how you became involved with the project. i know you have a background in domestic violence and

>> i've been teaching criminal law for 20 years over at north eastern, as you mentioned and i think it is important for students to understand how miscarriages of justice can come about. they can come about not only through wrongful convictions but also through the miscarriage of justice of people not being properly prosecuted, if you will a wrongful acquitted so when margaret asked me to join the project i was really thrilled and it's been an experience of a lifetime. >> tell us how it works; how many students you have, the projects are selected, just work? >> so the clinic started about seven years a53 it started with just one case but now we're up to about 20-30 case as year and our cases largely come to us through black newspapers. they reported on the violence, but it the cases, like you mentioned, like emmett till

newspaper archives and really we don't know the narrative stories of hundreds of murders that took place in the 1930s, 40s and 50s and that's our job to try to bring those cases back into the history books. >> well is it a requirement for every student in law school to work on the project? >> no we take about 12 students a year and they apply and they take many other courses and this is one of the electives they can take in their upper level. >> and how many courses, or how many cases did you select from in picking the one that you're working on? >> we're given cases, selected for us and they give us a primary case and a couple secondary case but my primary case ended up being so involved that i just focused on that one. >> now is this for course credit or? >> yes, for coursed. >> ok.

over 20 hours a week of their time, six credits, really a mogger, major commitment to the students and they respond to it with great passion. >> it sounds similar # to oh, the innocence project, some of the work that the naacp legal defense fund does s. there a collaboration or a shared work between of these other established civil rights organizations. >> not really. i mean we all share the same goal but i think we're actually opposite in some ways of the innocent project. they're about wrongful 86s and we're about wrongful prosecutions, we're all working towards the school of justice but there are many wheys to get there. >> ok. we'll talk some more after this musical interlude with pianist donel patterson.

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we're back with professor rose zoltek gic and tara dunn both afiltiate would the north eastern school of law civil rights and restorative justice project. mrs. dunn, i want to go back to you. tell me about the challenges gewards with being involved in something like this? >> well some of the challenges

investigate these cases that happened so long ago #, trying to reach people who were alive during that time, trying to recover documents. a lot of the different agencies and cities struggle with trying to keep up with their documents so i think that was the hardest part was the research and trying to locate people who are still alive. >> and the rewards? >> well besides the practical legal skills that you gain from the clinic # it was really contacting the family and personally seeing the impact that our work and our research has on these individuals; for example, one of the sons of the daughter of the man who was lynched sent me a text message and said today is my 50th birthday and i just want to thank you all. i never knew the real story of

and you guys are angels for it and that was pretty impactful. #. >> and giving the family that sense of peace. what lies ahead for your future as you look towards the third year and then finishing law school. >> right. well i definitely hope to be a civil rights lawyer and follow in the footsteps of many of the professions that i've had and eventually i'd like to get involved in policy and effect change from the legislative side #. >> professor, we've mentioned a connection to policy initiatives as well, can you elaborate a bit on that for me. >> so part of our restorative justice work is also make sure these cases get known on a grander scale in addition to our own website so we're working for example with the alabama legislature to have them think about setting up a

look into the cases that real a arise during this period in their own jurisdiction and we're trying to do work with other communities and legislatures to really have this work and understood at a policy level. and you mentioned some understanding, broader understanding of what # # is happening on the legal front today and now. what are the parallels or what are the connections? >> well i think we believe that without really understanding the work that we are doing to understand the depth and breath of violence in this earlier period in the 1930s, 54ths 50s, there really isn't a through line between then and now so the reason we're doog the work focused on history but trying to bring it into today is precisely to make that connection so really we can understand what's happening today as a through-line between then and now. >> have you drawn any parallels with some of the

we see in the media today? >> we do that really through our own work in terms of opeds and other kinds of investigatory work but there is no clinic where they don't see in today and yesterday's news. so sometimes these connections are explicit and sometimes really we rely on the student's understanding of history to bring their own perspective on today. >> and what's ahead for the project? >> we have many cainss yet to discover. >> there are as many cases as we've discovered those who are yet to be known and we're trying to do the 25-30 cases that we're able to do this every year and try to get thoobottom and to the end of this story. >> well good luck with your work. good luck with your many success for your future as a young attorney.

for me to hear the voice of julian bond as a narrator on that with his loss being so fresh on our minds, but congratulations and keep on keeping on as they say. i'm grateful for the sharing of this special story with our audience and i wish them continued address. i will end with thards with of ralph waldo emerson who reminds us you can never do a kindness too soon for we never late. have a blessed day and see you

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