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that's my tide. >> reporter: all night, the bitter cold pried at the windows and licked under the door frames of the bruner house here in silverthorne, colorado. hardly a night to take a walk. certainly not an all night walk. had she hurt herself, or had someone else hurt her? it wasn't like stephanie roller bruner to just disappear. >> it seemed more likely that it might be a stranger that might be involved or that stephanie herself might have just run off in despair and maybe hurt herself. and family poured over those last few weeks. so full of change secrecy,

of course some knew about stephanie's relationship with that new man, and how upset she was about losing her job. still, she seemed to be holding the trouble at bay. 6 weeks before she disappered, as dale recalled, she suggested a little family holiday. >> she says, "let's go to glenwood springs for the weekend." old, classic, wonderful place. >>eporter: and it was "almost romantic," said dale. just like the old days. but when they got back she gave him the news. >> she goes, "i want a divorce." i said, "you don't love me anymore?" she goes, "i've met this other person" and she even said, "it's than i don't love you, but i think i love -- i think i've met my soulmate again." >> reporter: and just like that dale's world came crashing down. >> i called her brother. i called her sters. i called her mom. i said, "do you know what's going on? do you know what's happening? >> reporter: he talked to her sister ramona. >> i remember during the phone call feeling really annoyed,

like, why are you calling me to try to sway me to your side? but then by the time the call was over i remember thinking, "what is steph doing?" >> reporter: he begged stephanie's friend, jennifer, to do something. >> you've got to talk some sense into her. you know, you've got to make her see that she needs to stay with me. >> you had no inkling that this was coming? >> no, not until she told me that she was in love with somebody. >> reporter: helplessly in love she told him. fell for her other man that night dancing with the mountain stars. >> i go back to the day that i asked steph if i should shoot that wedding or not. and i didn't go to that event with her. i wasn't gonna be dancing with her on a big important night for her. >> reporter: it was a curiously old-fashioned affair, apparently. stephanie told her apparently. stephanie told her friends that her feelings were no so much physical as pure and emotional. but she made it clear to dale that even though she still loved him, she had no choice but to follow these powerful feelings

man. >> i said, "if this is what you want, this is what you want." >> reporter: they would share the children, of course, dale at the family house, stephanie in a rented condo. the weekend before she disappeared, he helped her move out. >> why in heaven's name did you do that? >> well, she asked me to help. isn't that what you do? i didn't fall out of love with her. i still loved her. >> reporter: and then in the middle of the night, her very first night away, dale says he woke up to a commotion downstairs. it was stephanie. she crawled right back into bed with him. >> she had come home. >> wow. >> she said this was all a horrible mistake and that she wanted to move back in. >> and i said, "are you sure?" and she said, "don't worry everything's fine." >> reporter: but now, just two days later, things were not fine. not at all. stephanie was missing, and dale was down at the police department telling officers where he thought his wife might have gone. >> i thought she would go somewhere with the wifi and be on the computer.

and my other gue was maybe she went to ron's house. i didn't know. >> reporter: the police interviewed the other man, of course, ron holthaus. >> i just wanna ask straight up again, not accusing you, do you know where stephanie is right now? >> i absolutely have no idea. >> reporter: ron admitted he and stephanie had a romantic relationship but he denied they ever slept together. >> but we never ended up having sex. >> reporter: and then ron told them something very interesting -- that he had ended the affair. it was that night she moved into the condo, he told them. he said to stephanie that it was over. >> i said, "i'm gonna move to florida with my fe. we'rgoing tryndo back nles anmake ts work >> dyou ha any rson to beeve at athing bad s ppenedo he >> that would be my worst fear. day came and went. no stephanie. an overstretched local police

force called in the colorado bureau of investigations. which is why agent greg sadar was standing beside the shallow blue river staring at what looked like a lump of snow on some rocks. >> there was several inches of snow on top of her. you could see the body underneath the snow. >> reporter: it was stephanie, all right. but how did she get here? >> coming up. the autopsy finding that surprised everyone. had stephanie been murdered? >> it's a whodunit. i had at least three viable suspects. >> any one of whom had a potential motive.

>> when "dateline" continues. >> reporter: it was perplexing, almost, that a thing so awful could happen in the midst of such beauty. here in the frigid rushing water of the blue river, three and half days after shdisappeared, they found stephanie roller bruner, nude but for a tie dyed shirt that still clung to her body, came to rest against a tumble of snow covered rocks. >> it was just a little bit farther beyond that where the water gets calmer, we located her -- her remains. >> reporter: just over by that second bend there? >> yes, sir. >> reporter: she hadn't gone far.

agent greg sadar, of the colorado bureau of investigation. how far from her house? a rough guess off the top of my head, 300, 350 yards. >> reporter: the news spread fast. >> today, investigators say they have found a body. >> and that was a pretty bad day. >> your heart drops. let's find out what happened to her along with humongous sadness. >> reporter: the county coroner broke the news to dale. >> they said, "dale, we need to tell you something." and i'm like, "what?" and -- i just went into convulsions. >> reporter: but how did she get here? was it suicide? accident? or murder? there is a bridge just upstream from the place they found stephanie's body. dale told police she often liked to walk here. >> she could been attacked on this bridge and shoved over. >> that was one of our early fears. >> or, that she had just simply committed suicide. jumped in the water, hit her head and that was that. >> that was also another legitimate consideration. >> so, thus the puzzle.

>> it is. >> reporter: until four days after thanksgiving, when the autopsy revealed a curious one that seemed to rule out suicide. >> there were no wounds at all to the soles of her feet. >> what did that mean? >> well, that certainly means that she didn't walk to where we had found her without shoes. >> reporter: and just in case there was any lingering doubt, the autopsy also revealed that she'd taken a blow to the head. she'd been strangled, but was still alive when she was thrown into the freezing water. the ultimate cause of death -- hypothermia and drowning. >> well, we knew at that point she had been murdered. >> reporter: first murder in silverthorne in decades. but who would do such a thing and why? it was just hours before stephanie took her walk in this virtually crime-free community when somebody robbed that nearby ba. so did the robber later encounter stephanie and then

assault and kill her? >> this is where a predator could have been hiding out you know, there's any number of opportunities at that point. >> reporter: still, it was so cold. perhaps too cold for a lurking predator? >> this is one of those very few cases where it's -- a whodunit, if you will. and where you've got -- i had at least three viable suspects. >> any one of whom had potential motive. >> absolutely. >> reporter: there was ron holthaus the other man, who had just suddenly dumped stephanie. there was also ron's wife cindy who, if she had discovered the affair, could have wanted revenge. and then of course there was dale bruner. the husband. and any one of them, thought the detectives, was physically capable of committing the crime. >> her husband was 6 foot 200 pound, very athletic guy. mr. holthaus, again a big strong guy. and his wife was actually a very

physically fit woman. >> so she'd be outgunned by any one of them. >> i would believe so, yes sir. >> reporter: they took ron in for questioning several times. and again and again he insisted that it wasn't him. >> i screwed up my marriage, i've made a mess of my life. >> reporter: he admitted that in the last hours of stephanie's life, he met h here in this clothing store parking lot, around dinnertime, and it wasn't a happy meeting. >> i was actually trying to tell her that it was over. >> reporter: he'd earlier sent her a breakup e-mail, he said. she insisted on seeing him in person. she wasn't taking it well at all. >> and then she asked me again one more time like, "but we can make it work?" i said, "no, we cannot make this work." >> she was still interested in having a relationship with him. >> and didn't want to let him go. >> correct. and i'm sure that he was motivated to not let his wife find out about that. >> reporter: which begged the

holthaus later that monday ephanie went for he>> you're saying to me you were at home. you never went out on monday night? >> correct. >> reporter: the detectives called in ron's wife cindy. >> it would not be unheard of for a woman to be very upset that her -- to find that her husband has been seeing another woman and want to go significant lengths by eliminating the temptation. >> reporter: her alibi -- she was home sleeping right next to ron. >> okay, did you know -- do you know for sure, if ron was in the house? did he leave at any time? >> i can't say i was sitting up and looking at him all night. >> if he got up to leave, would you have awoken? >> i think i would've, yeah. >> reporter: so their alibis were each other. detectives kept prodding. >> how much do you love your husband? >> i'm committed. >> would you do anything for him?

>> within reason. would i lie for him? no. because you know what? if he made his bed, he's gotta lay in it. >> reporter: for almost a month, detectives went back and forth between ron and cindy, and stephanie's husband, dale, who by that time had been advised by a friend, better get a lawyer. >> so i called, and my attorney said, "you don't know the onslaught -- the tidal wave that's coming toward you, do you? you have no idea. i said, "no, apparently not." >> reporter: oh yes. and what a tidal wave it was. >> reporter: so three potential suspects: the husband dale. the boyfriend ron. and ron's wife cindy. when we return, police narrow their focus to just one. after a very strange discovery. >> every trace of her had been scrubbed from the house.le medications, does your mouth often feel dry?

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>> it's horrible. i mean it's -- i -- i -- i don't even know how it -- how to explain -- having a microscope go into your world. it' s surreal. >> reporter: there are few secrets in a person's life that can escape the attention of a determined homicide detective. >> everything comes out. absolutely everything. >> reporter: and dale and stephanie, it turned out, had their share of secrets. like the weird thing one chilly morning six weeks before stephanie was murdered. as stephanie told her friend jennifer. >> she heard spanking. and -- she -- she told me she counted at least eight spanks before she got up the stairs and down the hall to the kitchen. >> well, my boy was acting out far beyond, you know, the norm. i said, "come on." >> reporter: that was a wednesday morning. stephanie was furious about the spanking and stormed off to work. and that very day she was laid off from her county job. and then still upset with dale, stephanie went to see a judge

and filed a restraining order against dale. sought advice from her friend bill. >> honestly, i was -- i was a little bit surprised. i had never detected any major problems in their relationship. >> reporter: but, and this was distinctly odd, she asked the court to delay implementing the order until the following monday. then she went home and, said dale, suggested that family holiday. >> we had a wonderful weekend at the -- at the hotel colorado, and the hot springs, swimming with the kids. >> reporter: but then, back in town, is when stephanie revealed that one, she was in love with another man, and two, her restraining order was about to be served. >> she told me that, you know, the sheriff's department was going to come to the house, and i'm gonna have to leave. >> reporter: so he did. after which, said dale, they calmed down and, 10 days later went back to ask the judge to rescind his order. the court recorded the session.

>> i'm never gonna spank again. this potentially could crush my entire world. and i am so sorry to you and will make it up in any and every way i possibly can. >> she wanted to leave. but she felt like the restraining order was -- was too much, that dale didn't deserve that. maybe she had overreacted. >> reporter: and so they talked about it like adults, and eventually they signed divorce papers. dale even helped stephanie move into her own condo. where, as you know, the very night she moved in, her new love ron told her they weren't going to be together, not then and not ever. he was stayi with his wife. two days later, she was dead. and ron, his wife, and dale were under suspicion. >> they said i was a person of interest, and i -- i didn't think i had any worries. >> reporter: but agent sadar wasn't so sure. as his investigation continued, he became convinced that ron holthouse and his wife cindy had been telling him the truth. >> i feel awful, i feel really

awful. >> reporter: but he kept encountering suspicious things about dale. why had he waited until morning to report his wife missing? and why, while dale's friends and family scoured the town looking for stephanie -- why didn't he take part at all? >> it was kinda this mounting series of things that we started to be concerned about. >> reporter: and it was dale, said sadar, who had motive and opportunity. for one thing, the place they found her body, dale could certainly have carried her that far. >> we were stuck by how close it is to the house and how accessible it was even under those snowy conditions. >> reporter: and when dale was still talking, before he lawyered up, his demeanor seemed odd to the detective. one of their meetings, at a local restaurant, was recorded. >> well, whahappt ed to her then? >> that's what i'm talking to you about. >> very -- very probative.

he wanted to know what we had learned from the autopsy. where we were going with the investigation. >> i'm a little wigged out when you said there's no other clothes on her. >> oh, i -- i have some concerns. i'm being very open and honest with you. >> what the hell happened to her? i mean -- >> hell, that's what i'd like to find out. >> he was nervous, but not outwardly sad. >> reporter: and then, two weeks after the murder, when detective sadar got a search warrant, a house that h been cluttered at the time of the murder was now spotless. what did you find this time? >> nothing. there was nothing to find. >>eporter: there were no signs of blood, no evidence of any struggle. nor, in fact, was there any sign that stephanie had ever lived there. >> there wasn't a single photograph of her. every trace of her had been scrubbed from the house. >> reporter: it also seemed suspicious, said the detective, that dale changed his story a bit. first time he called the police, he said they'd had an argument before she left to go out walking. later he said there was no

>> was there an argument? >> we never had an argument. there was no argument. it was just the -- the facts were on the table. >> what -- what were you guys talking about that she needed to clear her head? >> wwere just talking about us. >> reporter: within a few weeks of stephanie's murder, the state ramped up the pressure on dale. social services sent the bruner children to live with stephanie's brother in california. >> i'm in a fight with mike tyson with no gloves. and then they're going to take my kids away, too? >> reporter: dale wasn't completely alone, mind you. some family stayed around and reported back to stephanie's sister, ramona, that dale was truly grieving. >> we kept asking, "what is dale acting like? what is he saying?" unless he is some kind of actor that deserves some kind of oscar performance, this guy really seems distraught. >> reporter: and stephanie's friend, bill, even moved in for two months to help out and console dale. >> reporter: we were just trying to hold dale together. he was having a difficult time. >> did you -- did you ever

come on, tell us what happened"? >> looked every one of us in the eye and said, "i had nothing to to do -- to do with this. i'm innocent." >> dale, c you tk at all out investigators only focusing on you? >> i hope they're investigating someone else. >> reporter: didn't look like it. it was summer, 2011, nine months after stephanie's murder, when it happened. >> ias coming back from one of my photo shoots, and a little unmarked car with a light on i flashed and a siren went and they have guns drawn on me. >> reporter: dale bruner was charged with second-degree murder in the death of his wife. he pleaded not guilty, posted bond, and was offered a plea deal by the da's office. what did you turn it down? >> because innocent people don't plea. >> reporter: besides, now, said dale, it was time to fight back. coming up. probing questions and provocative answers. >> it was a very intimate crime. it's the sort of crime that

husbands commit. >> or should i say boyfriends? >> when "dateline" continues.i absolutely love my new york apartment, but the rent is outrageous. good thing geico offers affordable renters insurance. with great coverage it protects my personal belongings should they get damaged, stolen or destroyed. [doorbell] uh, excuse me. delivery. hey. lo mein, szechwan chicken, chopsticks, soy sauce and you got some fortune cookies. have a good one. ah, these small new york apartments... protect your belongings. let geico help you with renters insurance. karl, don't you have friends coming over? yeah, so? it stinks in here. you've got to wash this whole room are you kidding? wash it? let's wash it with febreze. for all the things you can't wash, use... ...febreze fabric refresher whoa hey mrs. webber inhales hey, it smells nice in here and try pluggable febreze... ...to continuously eliminate odors for... ...up to 45 days of freshness

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red 97! set! red 97! did you say 97? yes. you know, that reminds me of geico's 97% customer satisfaction rating. 97%? helped by geico's fast and friendly claims service. huh... oh yeah, baby. geico's as fast and friendly as it gets. woo! geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more. >> reporter: two winters passed here in the colorado rockies between the untimely demise of stephanie roller bruner and the district attorney's effort to pin the blame on stephanie's husband, dale. and he fumed in silence about

the allegations against him. >> the lies are really tough that take. you're like, you can't believe it. you know, like really. >> reporter: waiting for trial, he continued to live here, all alone now in the family house by the blue river. working with his attorney in the effort to clear his name. robert bernhardt is the attorney. a man not at all impressed, he told us, with the police investigation. >> their position was, i think, "dale's the easy guy." you know? the worst pieces of investigating that i've ever seen in my career. >> reporter: dale and his attorney told us, that despite a show of interviewing other suspects, the police quite clearly had made up their minds the very day she disappeared. >> the police came to my house and i don't know what the exact first thing he said was, but he goes, "did you kill your wife?" and i was just stunned. >> reporter: the police didn't seem to want to believe what he told them about how happy he was that last evening, discussing new possibilities.

their daughter came into the bedroom to ask for help with her homework. >> when she came into our room we were laying on top of our bed cuddling. >> reporter: nor, he said, did the cops seem to want to believe his explanation for not reporting stephanie missing until morning. more than nine hours after she walked out into that frigid night. >> why would he? if he was aware of the fact that she was having an affair, he probably assumed that she went to her boyfriend's. >> the last thing i was gonna do was make waves. just do what you go to do. >> reporter: they made a such big deal of the fact that dale didn't join the search for stephanie even though -- >> i called the police. and they told me, "stay home in case she comes home." >> reporter: so by the time dale's trial began in the summer of 2012, he and his attorney were ready for evidence that they knew was only circumstantial. questions like this -- beaten the way she was beaten on her head and strangled the way she was strangled. it was a very intimate crime. it's the sort of crime that

are about to leave them. >> or should i say boyfriends? >> reporter: or boyfriends, yeah. >> well, there you go. >> reporter: that was the point his lawyers wanted to make in court, that police and prosecutors had unfairly brushed off the possibility that stephanie's new soulmate or his wife had anything to do with it. that would be ron holthaus. >> when everybody found out stephanie was missing, did any police officers come and visit you at work or at your home that day? >> no, they did not. >> reporter: and didn't ron's wife cindy have a motive? >> i said something like, um, "i don't know where she is, but i hope she rots in hell." and i'm very sorry i said that. >> reporter: of course, dale and his attorney knew the prosecution would make a big deal of that restraining order stephanie took out after dale spanked their son but her decision to ask for that order, said dale, sprang from her own

in her life. >> she built a fake little world where i was the bad guy. >> reporter: but was stephanie ever worried that dale might get violent? hardly, said the defense. why else would she ask the judge to delay the order until after their little family holiday? >> the judge had said he had never seen someone have a restraining order but then have them say, well, don't enact it yet. not until next week. >> reporter: and why would she go away on a yoga retreat, and decline this friend's offer to baby sit? >> "can i take care of the kids?" and she said, "no, they're fine with dale." >> and that's because she knew that dale wasn't a threat to her, he wasn't a threat to those children. >> reporter: and remember how the detective found the house unusually spotless two weeks after the murder? it was, turned out, family and friends who cleaned up. apparently because dale was paralyzed by grief. >> dale walks into his walk-in

stephanie's. and he comes out, he's just crying, and he says, like, i gotta get this stuff outta here. >> reporter: so it was clearly a rush to judgment, a sloppy investigation, said the defense. by detectives who bought the holthaus's alibis too easily. who failed to consider that the murder might have been committed by whoever robbed the nearby bank just before stephanie disappeared. attorney bernhardt confronted cbi agent, greg sadar. >> you had no direct evidence of mr. bruner assaulting his wife. >> correct. no direct evidence of mr. bruner murdering her. >> reporter: of course, had dale taken the stand, he'd have had to answer to some stubbornly uncomfortable facts. and this question that hung over the defense table like a cloud. >> you loved your wife, you loved her a lot. but in that moment of extreme rage when she was leaving you you killed her, you strangled her and then threw her body in the river.

>> the theme of the prosecution it was a -- >> it's beyond -- so not true. it's just not true. they painted quite a picture though. >> reporter: oh, yes. they certainly did. certainly did. with the help of a woman whose message, in a way, came back from the grave. coming up, stephanie speaks -- >> i'm asking for help! >> reporter: and so does another voice from the past.

recognized before. i'm sitting across from a man who may be telling me a true story, who may also quite possibly be living with the knowledge that he hit his wife on the head and strangled her and put her in the river, and that's where she died. and you have to live with that secret -- >> well fortunately. >> -- for rest of your life. >> fortunately, i don't have to live with that. that i don't have to live with. >> reporter: what dale bruner

trial of course and whether or not the prosecutor mark hurlbert could persuade the jury without the benefit of physical evidence that dale killed the love of his life in a fit of blind rage. >> i think dale bruner strangles her, believes that she is dead. takes her to the river and dumps her in the river. >> reporter: so what did happen on the night of the murder? the prosecutor called a child to start the story: dale and stephanie's eldest daughter, the girl who walked into her parents' bedroom around 9:00 p.m. >> and at 10 years old, she could say what happened with specifics. >> reporter: out of the view of the media, she told the court she heard her parents arguing. not cuddling, as dale claimed. after which, remember, dale claimed stephanie went for a walk to clear her head. at temperatures well below freezing? you've gotta be kidding, said the prosecutor. >> it's a cold november night, his wife goes for a walk, and he wouldn't call anybody until eight or nine hours later -- ten hours later?

that just doesn't make any sense. >> reporter: which, by itself, didn't mean dale was guilty, but this was where some of those secrets began to spill out. fatally troubled marriage. like the one stephanie told this friend after that spanking incident when she applied for a restraining order. >> did she express fear at that time? >> yes, she did. >> she looked at me and said, "he just sees red. he gets so mad that he goes into a red zone, and he doesn't even know what he does." friend -- >> she was afraid to get a restraining order against dale because he had already threatened to harm or kill her. >> reporter: that threat from dale was years earlier but stephanie had never forgotten how terrfied she was. she told the story to her friend jennifer just before the murder. >> he strong-armed her into a to hit her.

but he did. >> yeah -- >> and there was another time he threw her on the bed and put his knee on her pregnant belly. >> reporter: how often would this happen? >> you know, there are maybe three of those incidents that she talked about. >> reporter: then there was leah achen, a lifelong friend of dale's, who told the court about dale's reaction when stephanie told him she was in love with another man. >> he just wanted her dead, you know? maybe she would have a heart attack or get hit by a car, and i kept telling him just stop talking like that. but did dale really mean that? could he be truly violent? consider this woman, said the prosecutor. an ex-girlfriend from dale's past, a woman named jodi. who told the jury, and us, the strange story of what happened one night when she lived with dale 20 years earlier. >> he hadn't come home for dinner one night and had said he

would be home. >> and you called him on it? >> he came home, we argued about t, and he became very angry, yelling at me. he pushed me down to the floor and put his hands on my neck said, "if you ever say or do that again, i'll kill you." he had a look on his face that i've never seen or recognized before. it was the most scared as i have ever been in my life. >> reporter: and even though that was a long time ago, said the prosecutor, it told a terrible tale which, sadly, is as old as time. dale, he said, was a man sometimes overcome by rage and his m.o. was to go for the throat. >> she was strangled so hard and with such force that it broke a bone in her neck. >> reporter: and then the prosecutor introduced his bombshell -- stephanie herself six weeks before the murder, stephanie begged a judge for that restraining order. and now in court, her recorded

>> he has threatened my life years ago, but you know with a hand on my throat didn't squeeze it, screaming in my face, "i will kill you if you leave." i have never forgotten. >> reporter: her sister was sitting in the courtroom listening and was overcome. >> and that was when we lost it. cause it was feelings of, oh, my god, and she's crying. >> reporter: it was as if stephanie was testifying in her own murder trial. >> i would so love to talk to him about it and say, can you leave or can you get help. and i just think that would go really bad. so i'm here asking for help. and i'm going to end up getting a divorce because there's no way i can go back. >> reporter: only she did. finally, this domestic violence

expert weighed in. >> when a victim is attempting to leave a relationship or has left a relationship, it is by far the most dangerous time for a victim. >> reporter: but what was the trigger that, according to the prosecution, set dale off? the answer he said, may lie in an unfinished email stephanie was writing to the other man, ron, just before she was murdered. and though dale denied he knew what she was doing -- >> i honestly didn't know. i had no idea. >> reporter: the prosecutor said dale must have seen her writing it -- an e-mail begging ron for another meeting because she couldn't accept the idea that her new love was leaving her. >> i think dale bruner got angry at that and hit her with something. then he strangles her, believes that she is dead. she's probably unconscious at that point. but she is not dead. and he takes her to the river and dumps her in the river. >> reporter: the jury stayed out four hours. >> the court has reviewed the verdicts.

is also worrying. >> reporter: dale bruner stood and awaited his fate. >> you're just trying to maintain and not just melt on the -- you know -- so, you prepare yourself to just breathe, just breathe. >> reporter: and then, there it was. >> we the jury find the defendant, dale bruner, guilty of murder in the second degree. >> reporter: dale bruner was taken away in handcuffs, and later was sentenced to 112 years in prison. he's appealing. >> it is a perfect storm. and i'm going down with the ship. >> reporter: stephanie's friend jennifer was driving when the verdict came in. >> i was in my car parked on the side of the road crying like a baby. >> reporter: and like others who knew stephanie, she wishes now she'd taken her friend's secrets more seriously. >> i beat myself up over it everyday about how i should have done this or should have done

that. >> reporter: an almost good marriage with one deadly flaw. >> a lot of stephanie's close friends and family didn't even know what was going on. i knew of a couple of events over the years. let's say it was only two. well, it only took three and she is dead. >> reporter: and so, say her friends, take some advice. heed the warning. don't hide the secret. >> that's why i am talking about it now. and hopefully, just one woman would have the courage to stand up and say, "i'm being abused. i'm living in fear. i'm living with secrets, and i i'm lester holt. thanks for joining us. this sunday, campaign 2016 and this burning question -- can anything stop donald trump? even the truth?

jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering. >> we'll ask donald trump about that and other claims. also, ben carson travels to jordan to bone up on foreign policy. he joins me this morning with a report on his trip. plus, there may be no bigger republican endorsement than the one from the new hampshire union leader. and this morning's pick could be a game changer. and that attack in colorado, planned parenthood says it is hateful rhetoric that led to this kind of violence. joining me for insight and analysis are eugene robinson of the "washington post," molly ball of t at listenhe "atlantic" magazine, radio talk show host hugh hewitt. welcome to sunday, it's meet meet. good sunday morning, no

this is one of those moments in the presidential campaign where you realize everything is about to happen. in just the next few weeks, we'll see a republican debate, two democratic debates the, christmas new year's break and before you know it iowa and new hampshire will be here in early february. we begin with a question that has confound it had political class for month -- can anything stop donald trump? even the truth? hillary clinton, ben carson, chris christie have been called out for what stephen colbert once dubbed as truethiness. but no one has had more controversial statements questioned than the man who will join us in a moment, donald trump. >> the truth? you know what? he may, but he's still going to get things done. >> this week, donald trump appeared to do more than merely bend the truth. >> i watched when the world trade center came tumbling down and i watched in jersey city,

thousands of people were cheering. >> that 9/11 claim was widely debunked by city officials, factcheck.org and nbc news. politifact gave trump a "pants on fire" rating. still, trump doubled down. >> they were dancing in the street and they were dancing on roof tops. i'm not making that up. >> and fact checkers have not been able to stop trump from saying this again and again. >> now i hear we want to take in 200,000 syrians, right? and they could be -- listen, they could be isis. you know 200,000? that's like an army. >> actually, the obama administration plans to accept 10,000 syrian refugees over the next year. do voters care? >> when the media asks questions about him bending the truth, what's going on in washington right now? there's never been more truth bending in our lives. >> just 19% of americans say they feel they can trust their government most or all of the time and trump supporters, like his overall message, even if he

strays from the facts. trump is not the only candidate stretching the truth. ben carson said this on syria. >> we also must recognize it's a very complex place. the chinese are there. later, carson's campaign tried to clarify saying he meant chinese weapons and equipment were in syria, not the chinese military. then there's hillary clinton and her evolving explanations about her e-mail server. >> it was fully above board. the people in the government knew that i was using a personal account. >> but many of those people, including the president, have said they did not know she used it exclusively for government business. just 27% of all voters and 52% of democratic primary voters give clinton a good rating on being honest and straightforward. despite their problems with the truth, trump and clinton remain their party's front-runners. >> if diogenes were looking for that honest man, once they got past bernie sanders in the presidential election they'd be looking for a long time.

honest person in 2016. >> i'm joined on the phone by the republican presidential front-runner right now donald trump. mr. trump, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> let me ask you about these claims this way. you demand and you've demanded of me pinpoint accuracy when i report on things about you, including, for instance, your net worth. why shouldn't we demand the same pinpoint accuracy in the claims that you make? isn't it hypocritical of you calling us out if we're not calling you out when you stray from the truth? >> well, now people have got my net worth right and they're saying what my real net worth is for a long time. you know, as a private company they weren't doing that but now they're doing it, largely, i guess, due to the big filing that i made with the federal government, with the fec. as far as all of these claims, i believe it's the obamas' intention. they said 10,000 people, syrians, we don't want them because we don't know who they are and i love the idea of building a safe zone someplace in syria but they said 10,000

and yet the democratic debate they said 65,000 to the best of my recollection. hillary said it and so did bernie sanders. you're saying bernie sanders is so honest, i doubt that very much. but bernie sasaers said it and hillary said it. i think they were talking in the democrat debate. i think they were talking about 65,000. i have it upon a certain amount of knowledge. i'm very friendly with people on both sides that obama's plan is 200,000 to 250,000. so he said 10,000, the debate said 65,000 already before we even start and i think what he really has in mind is 200,000 people and maybe even more than that coming into our country and we can't have it. we don't know who these people are, they're undocumented totally. and by the way, even if it's 10,000, we can't have it. we can't have people coming in that we know nothing about. there is no paperwork. and for good reason. but there's no paperwork and this is going to be or has the potential to be one big fat trojan horse and we can not have that.

>> all right, well, let's back up here a minute. let's go to this jersey city comment. you said you saw this. nobody can find evidence of this. and, more importantly, the article that you tweeted out that says -- that this backed you up, that in itself there were three or four different reports that month in new jersey that said it was a myth that was spread, that it was a false rumor, fbi, you name it. where did you see this? >> chuck, i saw it on television. so did many other people. >> in jersey city? you saw -- >> in the area. i also heard paterson. i've heard jersey city, i've heard paterson, it was 14 years ago but i saw it on television, i saw clips and so did many other people and many people saw in the person. i've had hundreds of phone calls to the trump organization saying "we saw it. it was dancing in the streets." and, by the way, the "washington post," now he tried to pull

reported tailgate parties and reports of tailgate parties. tailgate parties mean, like, for a football game where you have hundreds and hundreds and maybe even thousands of people having tailgate parties. i saw it at the time. i stick by it. hundreds of people have confirmed it. >> this didn't happen in new jersey. there were plenty of reports and you're -- >> chuck, it did happen in new jersey. i have hundreds of people that agree with you. >> they want to agree with you, that doesn't make it true. >> chuck, you have a huge muslim population over there and that's fine. that's fine. but you have a huge muslim population between paterson and different places in jersey city and unbelievable large population. if they're going to be doing it at soccer games, if they're going to be doing it all around the world that was being done, it was -- when the world trade center came down it was done all around the world and you know that because that has been reported very strongly. why wouldn't it have taken place?

in and tweet in on twitter saying that they saw it and i was 100% right. now, the "washington post" also wrote about tailgate parties. we're looking for other articles and we're looking for other clips and i wouldn't be surprised if we found them, chuck. but for some reason they're not that easy to come by. i saw it. so many people saw it, chuck. and so why would i take it back? i'm not going to take it back. >> just because somebody repeats something doesn't make it true. and i guess that's actually -- >> hundreds. i don't mean i had two calls, chuck. even yesterday i was in sarasota sarasota, florida, and people were saying they lived in jersey -- >> people were saying. mr. trump, if i say "well, people have said mr. trump is not worth $10 billion" you would say that was crazy. >> but that's based on -- >> based on retweets and hearsay. >> this is much different. >> you're running for president

of the united states. your words matter. this truthfulness matters. fact-based stuff matters. >> take it easy, stuff, just play cool. this is people in this country that love our country that saw this by the hundreds they're calling and they're tweeting and there's a lot of people in sarasota, people were telling me yesterday they used to live in new jersey, they remember it vividly, they thought it was disgusting. so these are people that saw it, too. the "washington post" reported it. other people -- many, many people have seen it. so i believe that -- i have a very good memory, chuck, i'll tell you, i have a very good memory. i saw it somewhere on television many years ago and i never forgot it and it was on television, too. >> let me ask you about your reaction to what happened in colorado. >> okay. well, i think it's terrible. i mean, terrible. it's more of the same and i think it's a terrible thing. and he's a maniac. he's a maniac. >> a spokesperson for planned

parenthood says -- is concerned the heated rhetoric around the planned parenthood debate could have had an adverse affect basically on this mentally disturbed individual. you think the rhetoric got out of hand on planned parenthood? >> no, i think he's a sick person and i think he was a -- probably a person ready to go. we don't even know the purpose -- i mean, he hasn't come out to the best of my knowledge with a statement as to why it happened to be at that location. >> well, we have reporting -- >> he lived in a different area. >> we have reporting that he was talking about baby parts and things like that from law enforcement officials. >> well, i will tell you, there is a tremendous group of people that think it's terrible all of the videos that they've seen with some of these people from planned parenthood talking about it like you're selling parts to a car. i mean, there are a lot of people that are very unhappy about that. now, i know some of the tapes were perhaps not pertinent. i know that a couple people running for office or are running for office on the republican side were commenting on tapes that weren't appropriate. but there were many tapes that

are appropriate and in terms of commenting on and there are people that are extremely upset about it. it looks like you're talking about parts to some ma celine orchine or something. >> so you're not surprised that someone might taken a extreme reaction to this? >> well, this was an extremist and this was a man who obviously -- and they said prior to this he was mentally disturbed so he's a mentally disturbed person, no question about that. >> but it does sound like you understand why people might react this way? >> well, there's tremendous -- there's tremendous dislike, i can say that. because i go to rallies and i have by far -- and you will admit that, i think, but i have by far the biggest crowds, includes bernie sanders. by the way, whose crowds are going down, down, down, like a rock ever since he gave hillary a free pass on the e-mails? but i see a lot of anxiety and i parenthood. there's no question about that. >> is there a way you could lose this nomination and feel as if you were treated fairly by the

republican party?