la, l, a, la, l, a, la, ♪ tavis: so you see that old footage and you think what? >> baby fat. tavis: baby fat? i didn't see any baby fat. >> a long time ago. tavis: other than the hair being darker, you're doo doing well. when you see footage like that, does it seem like 50 years in the business? >> not really. i'm always amazed when i see old footage. the farther back, the more amazed i am. whoever she was back then. a long time ago. tavis: when you say whoever she was, i assumed there were stage, moments in your life that you're going to look back in 508 years and see where the mow -- 50 years and see the where the momentous changes

have come in retro spect? >> i think so. it feels like home when i started writing. "sir gallahad." the diamonds in rough era when i started really rying more. there was a dip, serious dip, which i think every singer has. none of us want to admit it. i think that does happen. you get reoriented what's going on around me? and then you try and catch up. i think i have. so this will be another point -- 50 years. tavis: how do you survive to your phrase those dips in the career? >> first of all, i think it takes a while to realize that that's going on. with me it took a while until one night i woke up at 2:00 in the morning. i was working on an album. and i go, why am i working on

this album? people aren't going to be able to hear it. i department have a way to distribute the music and so forth. it kind of bingoed in the middle of the night. i went out and found a management. i didn't have a management back then. at the beginning i didn't. i started at 18 years old. i just walked out on the stage and sang. the part that most people go through, singing in clubs and trying to do publicity and doing the things you need to do to be heard, i had to do that much later, because i was pretty clear sailing for a long time. tavis: peaking of clear sailing, the point you made a moment ago, how do you regard in retrospect the fact that the first song you wrote becomes not just a hit, but a classic? how does that happen to the very first song you wrote? >> i have no idea. i don't think any of us know very well where this stuff comes from, when it just comes.

there's sometimes you say, i'm going to write a song about so and so. and you do it. and that's more disciplined. but when something comes up, with that song, my sister's second weding to her hip wi boyfriend and it just came out. tavis: that said, as you look back at your 50 year, do you regard yourself first and foremost as a singer,/performer or a song writer? >> probably a singer/performer, because i start with that for the first 10 years. for a number of years i've returned to that, recording and singing the music of generation of people that are coming up on my generation. younger. some of them considerably younger, trying to see through their eyes. it's really quite different from the music that was written a few years ago. . tavis: tell me how you

referenced in the beginning a couple of times -- talked about humanitarian advocacy -- how did you get into this space? you started at 18. but where did the -- how did you know that this was your gift? how did you find yourself in this space of being able to use that gift? take me back to the beginning of your -- >> you said, how did i find myself there, because i didn't plan it. i didn't plan much of anything. i didn't have that left brain working for me. so i just kind of went from one thing to the left. i realized i had a voice when i was about 14. picked up the ukulele. somebody ought to me some cords at 14. tavis: at 14. >> at 14. and then i moved on to bell fontay. they was my introduction to folk. and then the next step was seeinger and odetta. and some people who's names are

not known. the coffee shops in cambridge. i had fun in high school. kids would ask me -- do you think you'd be famous? that would be the last thing in my mind. i had a lot of equal ms about fame. i remember it was very distinct that other people were famous. it was pretty healthy because some of the emphasis went into singing. and because of my family and social consciousness as quakers who really reject violence and really don't think it's ok to kill anybody and stick to that, so i was raised that way with that kind of mentality. so it's easy for me to move into social change and humanitarian issues. and i found throughout my life that's where i've been the most comfortable singing when there

was some kind of need for it beyond the beauty of the song. kinging in countrys that have terrible strife. sneaking in under marshall law and sneaking through. those are things that other people wouldn't do. so my greatest gift is a voice. i really look at it as maintenance as delivery. and the second gift is how i chose how to use it. tavis: tell me about growing up as a quaker. we read about it. every now and then you gate chance to con ver sate with somebody who grew up that way. what was it like growing up as a quake sner >> when you're a kid, you can't stand it. you have to sit there at the meeting and be quiet. i found a mentor when i was about 16 who was a ghandian

advocate. any social change that we did or any political action that we got into was all based on nonviolence. and that was my attraction to dr. king. he was 29, i think, when i first heard him. and i was just -- i guess for me, i had been reading about nonviolence. i understood it. but to see dr. king who was involved in busboy cots. it was solid. it was action at that point. i was just beside myself. tavis: you were 15? >> yeah. tavis: do you recall vividly the first time you saw him? >> i do. i was at a gathering put on by the quakers. it was pretty much about violence. each year they had a speaker. and that year was dr. king, this young preacher. tavis: that's amazing.

how did you go from hearing him that first time at 16 to befriending him, to working with him, to marching with him, at one point driving him? how did all that happen? >> i cannot remember the very beginning of it. but i know as he moved along, the institute for the study of nonviolence. and dr. king and his folks knew that they could come there to kind of build up their nonviolence argsnal in a sense, and get the support from us. and at the same time, dr. king began calling on me to go where he felt i was needed as an advocate of his movement. and i understood and he understood and i heard him say that the black movement without including the whites wasn't

worth it. was not going to work. so there was nothing better for me to support than that. a lot of things about king people don't know. he and obama are the most laid back people i've seen -- i haven't met obama. they draw this tremendous strength they have inside. i know that king used to pray -- i mean, he was confronted with another issue. and he just simply prayed until he got some kind of an answer. tavis: for you, what was it about -- you were already already on this -- this non-violent journey. and i say journey, i mean, you were steeped in this as a quaker. so it wasn't something that you came to. you were born into this. for those of us who know the story of dr. king, he had to be turned on to nonviolence.

you were born to it so to speak. beyond being born into it, how you came to believe this as a philosophy. tell me about joan baez nonviolent formulation. >> i could see whatever pictures came to my mind. i lived in baghdad, iraq. tavis: we're going to talk about that. >> my father was with unesco. he had the job of teaching at the university of baghdad. we three kids and my mom were there for about a year. some time during that year, you know, and i saw things which my classmates at home would never see. we saw poverty. and we saw sorrow. we saw kids who were broken. we saw people. we saw camels and sheiks walking down the main street. you never knew who was going to spit first.

the stuff they said was so shocking. my parents became quakers when i was 8. my mother gave me a copy of the diary of anne frank. and that was a huge point in my life that i identified with her so strongly. what happened from reading that was that i felt as a child that i was associated somehow with all children. and if any child did not want to be hurt or beaten that i wouldn't want to console them. i just thought, maybe it was simplistic, but i wouldn't want to be beaten with a rubber hose. so i assumed that nobody wanted to be beat within a rubber hose. that's how it got started and how it began to build. you know, i think i'm lucky that i have all that under my belt before we started things

like the marches for civil rights and then eventually against the war in vietnam because i think a lot of people came to that for its sake, and then when it was over left in a sense. 1972, the end of the war in vietnam, i was disoriented. but i can imagine the people who had been there just for that. and so i had, you know, a backlog of things that i -- remember the first time i was in a demonstration, i was with my father at stanford university, and i can't even remember -- i think we were against bombshell ters. and somebody started dropping water balloons on us. so i had some idea from the beginning. i was 18 and i went to a sane rally. and pete seeinger was there started pelting with us eggs and toe tay mows. i -- tomatoes. i didn't mind that. it's some sort of honor.

you're doing something and they throwing tomatoes. [laughter] tavis: i want to go back to something you said a moment ago. indulge me. i was speaking to an audience in texas. and i was giving this point came out. george bush, i was there speaking right after the president had returned -- former president had returned back to texas after leaving the white house. and you know this because you were there, when dr. king came out against the vietnam war, everybody as you recall turned against him. the naacp, now celebrating its 100 years, roy wilkins turned against him. lyndon johnson disinvited him to the white house, everybody turned against dr. king. i knew this. i went back to do some research on this. turns out that the last public opinion poll done about dr. king had his approval rating at

the same level as george w. bush's when he left the white house. and we celebrate king and this iconic figure 40 years later, 41 years almost. but he dies on that balcony in memphis with the same approval rating that george w. bush left the white house. that's how low m.l.k.'s approval rating because of his opposition of the vietnam war. i asked you because you were out vocally opposed to the war as dr. king. had you navigated that moment where people thought you were crazy, thought you were insane, thought you were as wrong as king was for being so violence -- so vocal in your opposition to the vietnam war? >> well, i started early. i went on -- i created a march, i think, in early 1960's before it was even official, the war

in vietnam. -to-orwere already out against it before it was official. >> we had advisors over there. and i thought well, we should get in this. i did look like a goofy hippie. i was in caramel not a place where you had a lot of marches. and some friends and i made some signs. from then on -- actually i was dubbed a communist when i did my own demonstration in high school because they were going to have an air raid drill. and when the air raid drill happened, we were all supposed to go home and get in our sell lars. it was absolutely ridiculous. i went home and talked to my father, was a fist cyst about how long it would -- physicist about how long it would take a bomb to palo alto. some kids were having bomb parties. i stayed in school. and it was fascinating. they didn't know what to do with me.

i talked to the principal. i explained why. i talked with the vice principal. i talked with the secretaries about what i was doing and why. the next day it was in the paper, and the day after that, it was irate parents about this comeie who was a danger to their children in coom. and from early on -- to their children in school. when the right and left are both annoyed at me at the same time, you know i'm doing something right. tavis: i get the sense because you have been, again, so steeped in this from childhood, i get the sense that you never spent that much time at all calculating the risks, the danger, the downside of your career. >> some people said, she'll never get anywhere, she's doing

too much political stuff. i believe it was laos when i went over to sort of highlight the boat people and the land people in laos, the people in cambodia. and one of those borders, which is just rock bottom refugee who is had nothing and i was in this thing which was crazy. they didn't speak english. they didn't know who i was. some camera man said, you're really just here for publicity. i said, oh, yeah, i sell a lot of albums in cambodia. [laughter] tavis: that's funny. so it's not enough that you have shared your iconic self with us all these years. it wasn't enough that you were standing in your truth back in the day and sharing your gift in the world. then you had to expose us to

this guy named dylan. i crack up when i think about you because again, it's not that you are all that and then some, but your career brings us this guy named dylan who becomes an icon in his own right. but you introduced him to the world. what do you make of that? >> mostly, it was funny. i would drag him out on the stage. and the audience would go -- ugh. and this little scruffy dude would come out here. i would go, you listen to his words. [sighing] [laughter] >> and they would listen. tavis: it's an amazing story. this c.d. that's out now, celebrating your 50 years, the first song on here, and i'm glad it's the first song. when i popped this thing in i

said wow. the first track is god is god. steve earl. >> steve earl wrote it. i thought god is with us. he said that's recovery speak. meaning that god is out there and you're going to need that, that something is more powerful than you are. and it could be the doorknob by the time you get there and recovery work. then it began to make a little sense to me. it isn't me. it isn't us god is god. somebody asked him, do you believe in god? he goes, i have no problem in god. this smart guy, tough, and i thought it was lovely, he had no problem with god. tavis: you were saying to me before we came on the air, when

i mentioned to you how much i loved the song -- how much it got my attention, you said to me, you actually like performing this song. it's a good song to perform. why is that? >> some songs just roll out like that. i'm not sure exactly the come poe nepts for that. but it may be part easy. it's easy to sing. and i like to watch the audience when they go like that or if they go like that, you know. i used to know when there were bush supporters. and i would say something -- tavis: how can anybody go to a joan baez concert and not know what they're going to get? >> i don't know. [laughter] tavis: i don't quite get that. >> sometimes a couple of hundred people would walk out. and they didn't get their money back either. [laughter]

tavis: all right. next question, right quick. why call this c.d., 50 years later, "day after tomorrow." >> it became natural to me. the words in front of me. it's a natural. it's one of the beautiful ways of stating once again anti-war by just following the thoughts of this young soldier. that's all. tavis: well at a joan baez concert you're going to get the same thing on a joan baez record. know what you're going to get when you see her. if you know that, you're not going to get your money back. her new c.d. is called "day after tomorrow." and i am tonight, so glad to have you on this program. thu for your insight. >> thank you. tavis: my honor. catch me on public radio

international. you can catch us on our podcast. and i'll see you next time on pbs. thanks for watching. and always keep the faith. ♪ they say every man needs protection they say that every man must fall yet i pray i see my reflection somewhere high above this storm ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit

civil rights attorney and political advisor vernon jordan. that's next time. we'll see you then. >> there are so many things that wal-mart is looking forward to doing, look helping people live better but mostly we're looking forward to helping build stronger communities and relationships. because of your help the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley" the tavis and nationwide insurance. working to improve financial literacy and the economicmic empowerment that comes with it. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.