[captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: good evening. a look at how wall street excess lead to our current economic crisis. a critically acclaimed new book on the subject is called "and then the roof caved in the." also tonight, davis guggenheim, who has a new film out called "it might get loud."

that is coming up right now. >> there are so many things that wal-mart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better, but mostly, we are looking forward for people to build stronger communities and relationships, because the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance price supports tavis smiley. tavis and nationwide insurance, working to improve financial power and that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ and by contributions to pbs stations by viewers like you. thank you. tavis: he is a "the new york

times" best selling author, david faber. he has his new book called "and then the roof caved in." i read the book and the title. what are you really try to say here? >> e.d.? and hearing it, i kind of laugh a little bit. we even hearing is, i kind of laugh a little bit. i think that is ultimately what i think is the case. tavis: before i get into it, let me start by asking the thoughts about the news media about the economy. i covered this stuff and not as much as you do or what you do on the money matters, but just being in this chair every day, i am watching what is happening. you get one spin from the white

house, one economist saying one thing, another group saying another. i do not know if we are in recovery now. what do you make about how we should read these numbers? >> you're absolutely right. i also find myself scratching my head, in part because you look at some of the numbers we get from the government, which seem to have indicated that we have bottomed and that the economy at very least has hit bottom. at the same time, there are many that say we are getting a strong recovery, but that speaks to a number of executives and ceo's who are not nearly as positive as many of the forecasters are, so, tavis, it is very hard to see where we are. i think it is safe to say that we have hit some sort of a bottom in our economy and that the bottom may be behind us, but it is hard to say we will have a very strong recovery in any

short time frame three and there, i think we still have to wait and see, and there still could be some tough times ahead -- in any short time frame. there, i think we still have to wait and see. tavis: is there really a recovery is the everyday people do not feel it? >> of course, unemployment is the key indicator for so many people out there. when you lose your job, more or less, nothing else matters in terms of your ability to live a life that you enjoy, and right now, we are still looking at a loss of jobs in the economy. that has slowed considerably. the last unemployment rate last week in showing some good signs on that front, and we may get to a point some time where we see no more job losses, but, that being said, you are talking about 15 million people being out of work, probably closer than 18 million when you consider people who are no longer in the hunt for a job, --

probably closer to 18 million. probably while that is a lagging indicator, as we like to say, of the economic recovery, job growth comes later. nonetheless, it t still a key. tavis: you said there are good signs, and i heard cnbc report to me a one-tenth of 1% drop. how is that a good sign? or are you referencing something else? >> and one-tenth of 1% drop in the unemployment rate from 9.5% to at 9.4%, which will likely go higher -- there is a seasonal impact, that is hard to say that losing that many jobs in a month is a good sign, but it is a better sign then when you were losing 400,000, or 500,000 jobs a month. the key question is really if we will ultimately see any significant growth in

employment, that we absolutely have to have in this economy if we are going to get back to rates of growth and standards of living that people hoped for. if that is where i still think we have a lot of questions. corporations are good at cutting jobs. the hard part will be whether or not they will be hiring back those people. tavis: just so i know before we go on to the book, give as a reference to some of those signs, even if it does not mean as yet that jobs are aplenty. >> we have got some good signs in terms of industrial production. we have had pretty good earnings from a lot of corporations. corporate america's earning money, at some point, one would hope that they would start reinvesting that money back into their businesses, and that would add into employment. the housing market, we are starting to see some signs. i think it is far from clear, but there are some signs that we are seeing at bottom, and that

is so important to people's ability to spend money. if you feel the value of your home continues to decline, it affects a lot of your decision making in terms of big purchases. the same thing happens in reverse. of course, when housing prices were soring,oaring, people will buying. tavis: delving into where we are and how we got here, economically speaking, you go back not just two or three years ago but to 9/11. make a case of how, what we are dealing with today can be traced back to 9/11. >> alan greenspan, the then chairman of the federal reserve, sought our economy might come to a complete standstill, and he almost immediately started to lower our interest rates -- thought our economy might come

to a complete standstill. it actually stopped growing entirely after we came out of our last bubble, and that being the technology bubble of 1990, but those interest-rate cuts that took place in september and october 2001 set the stage for what became historically low interest rates, historically low mortgage rates. a lot of people said, "hey, you know what? it is not a bad time to think about buying a home." and that is when the housing boom itself began, and i would argue one of the reasons it began. tavis: we can trace his drama that we are now enduring all the way back to 9/11. -- trace this drama. how much leeway than should the current president, obama that is, he given? how much credit should be given to him when he says it will take us awhile to get out of this? >> you know, it is so early in the obama presidency.

he has been dealing with so many different things. the factors he is dealing with now in this economy where largely not of his making. i do not think there is any way or anyone that can really argue that after six or seven months of the presidency that he is anywhere near responsible, for where things stand right now. he is trying desperately, of course, to revive the economy. we had a stimulus bill, $600 billion over time, trying to help revive the economy. the system, the excesses' we saw, built up in the system, they began over many, many years -- the excesses we saw but were not, ultimately, of the current administration is making. -- administration's making. tavis: there were too many people doing things that people did not know they were doing,

too much privacy, and too many things the sec did not know about, the american people did not know about. when the best examples that you give -- one of the best examples that you did is of the former head of merrill lynch. i will let you tell the story of him -- one of the best examples that you give. if this privacy issue that that s -- that got us into this mess. >> when i use in the book to try to connect the dots with people. housing and people not paying back their mortgages. how did that end up with wall street suffering? off-site try to connect all of those dots for people, and the example i give is merrill lynch -- one example i try to do to connect all of the dots for people is use merrill lynch. i do not think there is much doubt about that. if bankamerica had not bought it almost one year ago on september 14, 2008. if you are a regular investor,

you would not have known based on the press releases from merrill lynch and even a lot of its public filings, he would not have known that this company had become one of the greatest mortgage companies in the world. you simply would not have understood that, and it is funny. i went back and looked at my own reporting. i went back to look at the press releases from the time and the government sec filings, and it would have taken a lot to really get a sense as to how much risk of merrill lynch was taking on by buying all of these mortgages that were being made and actually giving a lot of mortgages, as well, to sell much of america. a huge mortgage operation masquerading as a brokerage firm. that is what merrill lynch came, ultimately to the shame of the ceo. he only done in an understood that when it was too late. tavis: davod fid faber, "an then

the roof comes in." thank you. coming up, davis guggenheim. stay with us. davis guggenheim produced the al gore film "an inconvenient truth." he has a new music filling out called -- music film coming out called "it might get loud." >> we are all attempting to share something with another human being. >> it was living, totally living.

>> total commitment. getting across what you wanted to say. >> just coming from a creative spot, really. >> that a family of storytellers. you're supposed to join the family, become part of it. >> it is where i am. >> right. tavis: these guys are all pretty good byd is 3, davis -- these three guys are all pretty good, davis. why them? >> the edge from dublin. jimmy page. these different guitarists. the wanted to say something very different korea what did they do with this piece of wood, and how did they express themselves -- they wanted to say something very different. what did they do with this piece of wood, and how did they

express themselves? with all of the noise out there in the world of television, i watch your show and say, "oh, here is a conversation." tavis: i appreciate it. >> at the end, they come out to play a led zeppelin song. there were the big, indulgent, white-boy blues bands, and there was one person who hated the one personu2 did their musica -- one person that hated u2, but each person could express himself uniquely and differently. it is beautiful. tavis: how do three guys to have a certain level, my word, not yours, have a certain disdain for the others' style, and if not disdain, wanting to juxtaposed their style, how do they act when they get together?

>> if you're going to be a rock star, you want to smash the generation before you. you want to destroy it, and you want to come out with your own voice and reject the other guys, so i was worried. one of the premises of the film, we got three guys together to actually mapped out at the warner brothers lot 1 mile away so that they would never meet, and we did not know what was going to happen when the edge arrives, when jimmy arrived, when hjacjack arrived. they had techies, and they had sort of an openness about it. they know how to improv and how to sort of hear some tlc's stuff, and as musicians, they could do anything -- hear someone else's stuff. there was a communal language that you and i do not have. you know when you meet a guy like prints that he is at a

level -- a guy like prince. tavis: that is true. what did you learn that the electric guitar meant for them? a lot of these guys use this as their primary instrument. >> one of the déjà realize is that it could have been anything. what is similar is that they are all isolated -- one of the things you realize. there was a place where no one played instruments, and it was all hip hop, and he said that playing an instrument was one of the most embarrassing thing that you could do. jimmy page grew up where there was no electric charge. the same thing with the edge in dublin. they all had to say, "i want to speak my mind." in the world, there are guitar teachers. you can go to guitar center and buy a $10,000 guitar. he does not make you a good guitar player. tavis: or "guitar hero."

>> yes, push the yellow button. tavis: what did they want to communicate? >> it is that no one is speaking for me, and i think you see that time and time. there is a thread, you know, going all the way back to the blues, the blues players themselves. no one is speaking for me, and i am going to use this instrument to speak for me, and even though the rest of the drug does not hear that, and you see jack white doing this. this is how bo diddley got his name. he was banging a nail on a 2 x 4, with wire, playing this instrument. they want to say something that words do not say. the lead singer -- bono gets to sing, and robert plant gets to

sing, but when you're at a rock concert, you hear that the star, and the words do not matter. you are hearing something that the words really do not matter with -- you hear that guitar, and the words do not matter. tavis: there is nothing wrong with this, i am just curious, why focus on the electric guitar and it's being employed in the rock genre? >> it is a wonderful thing about the process, because i could start the movie tomorrow and make it about three jazz guitarists, or three novelists, and we just found the three guys who played in the music that we love. thomas tull produced the movie "300" and others, and he called me up and said, "you do not know this, but you are going to win an academy award." , we both talked about our

favorite guitarists, and it started with jimmy page and it went to jack white. it was not to be exclusive. i went to say prince at the roosevelt, and i thought, "oh, if he could be in this movie." i thought i would beg. playing, his left hand, it was kicking. it is all encompassing, not really about the guitar. if you watch the movie, it is about, what is it about to write a song? and even more broadly, what is it like to be able to want to seek an artistic path to be able to express yourself? tavis: 1 in place so many things well and he is an embarrassment to everyone else -- one man plays so many things well. he is an embarrassment to everyone else. going beyond a guitar. >> as a songwriter, as a guitarist, as a singer, as a

producer. he wins all of those categories. tavis: when you got together to talk about the fellow, and you talk about your favorite guitarists, what is it that made you say, "i really do like this instrument, and i can do this. i would be interested in this." >> i love music, sort of like you, and because i m&a filmmaker, i live a creative life, but i am sort of a subcategory -- because i m&a filmmaker. prince, jimmy page, or the edge, i feel that they are not normal. they are given this special gift, and the artist is trying to be on a path. i am very inspired by how they do that, so when i saw these rocket documentaries, the usually end with a car over does or a car crash or an ex- girlfriend breaking up the band. beijing they usually end with a

car crash or an overdose -- they usually end with a car crash or an overdose. i was thinking, how do they do that? who taught them to play this instrument? jimmy page, and i think there is a clip you were going to show, he wanted the guitar to sound dirty, like the blues he heard, so he had a friend in the british navy which was called the admiralty, and he said, " make me a box to make that sound." so it was not about the guitar. it was about a guy try to express himself, and so, for me, as a person trying to express myself, i am learning something there. i am growing. i am expanding in my life because i am next to these three guys. tavis: you used a few words that i want to juxtaposed, the word "gift," and another.

are these guys gifted? they came into the world with capacity to do this? , where they learned how to do this along the way? >> you think -- or they learned how to do this along the way? >> you think that somehow they are sprinkled with some magic dust. in some respects, they have got skills. i have got three kids. some kids can write better than others. some can trot better, especially better. they have that, for sure -- some can draw better. they have a relentless desire to connect that passion with the need to say something. you get kids that are on youtube's are doing jimmy page solos better than him. -- on youtube. you see this with a guy like barack obama. he has that need to express himself, that need to connect to

people, you know? and the thing with prince, that is what i get drawn to comedies fascinating people. tavis: i know you have an answer, and i want to hear it. i get the feeling from you that you get turned on by this type of expertise, this type of passion. i went in the summer to watch prince close a concert, and i was also there with others. i liked being connected to greatness. i like to engage in dialogue with these guys have to find out what their process is. what do youtake -- i like to engage in dialogue with these guys to find out what their process is. >> so we are in the studio of the edge in dublin, and he is writing a song. he has got a little clue. it is not even a song. hehas a clue.

now, it is one year later, and it is in his new cd, and he is on that thing, and he is playing it tirelessly over read over again, and it is 3:00 in the morning, with my camera agreement, he is playing a tirelessly over and over again, and i said, "good night," and he looked over, and he was working. you want your show to be better. you what you're sure to go deeper. you have got the same thing. -- you want your show to go deeper. i want to be better. i want to do what they do because it will make my work better. tavis: you already have the academy award for "an inconvenient truth," and maybe there is another one and another one and another one, not to say anything less about your dad's work. nice to see you. that is our show for tonight.

you can catch it on the weekend on pri, on our podcast, the website, and next time on pbs. until then, good night. >> i had this record at home. it's dark, and a lot of sustain on it. -- a guitar. >> he came back with this phenomenal thing. a distortion pedal which does something to the signal. overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude. >> for more information on this show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: next time, quarterback warren moon.

>> there are so mananthings that wal-mart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly, we are looking for strong relationships, because with your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance bradley supports tavis smiley. and nationwide insurance -- nationwide insurance probably supports tavis smiley. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions by viewers like you. thank you. >>