>> charlie: welcome to the broadcast tonight. the president of egypt hosni mubarak on the eve of his trip to washington the first since 2004. tomorrow he meets with president obama at the whitehouse. >> the feeling was there was a great and extreme bias against the religious administration and that created great concerns among the muslims, particularly the leaders of muslim countries. but with the obama speech it became clear thatat he's not, tt amamica is not against this. if you complain of the

interventions of the forces in iran, i would say to you, don't interfere with the home affairs of other arab countries. like lebanon, like hamas and others. since you complain of this external or foreign interference, so don't do it with other countries. we are very keen. there should be stability and no stability unless we have the -- and with assist also. meeting with the authority, with the israeli government. >> charlie: the president of egypt hosni mubarak and all about the middle east coming up

captioning sponsored by rose communications >> charlie: we are in cairo, in egypt for a conversation with the president of egypt, hosni mubarak. it is my ninth interview with him. he is on the eve of a visit to washington to meet with president obama and vice president biden to talk about the middle east and other issues. it is his first trip to washington since 2004. i am pleased to have him back on this program for a conversation about the region, about the

issues he sees, about his rule here in egypt for 28 years. mr. president, thank you. >> thank you. >> charlie: i come to cairo and all of the talk is about you. they say is he okay, is he healthy, does he feel good. they say he's experienced tragedy. they say is he going to run again. would this be the last term for president mubarak. you say? >> i'm not looking for, if i'm going to renew another term or something like this. i'm busy. still i have two years. i have the problems that came

with elections. now i'm trying to run again or not run again. my effort is to complete the program for the people and i made the program you know in the campaign. and all the items that the president wants. is is my main concern. not to renew or not to renew. i'm not thinking about that now. >> charlie: when will you decide? >> i would like ask a question. when can you decide when the president is now? you can? you can't. we have to see. >> charlie: but they have books now called egypt after

mubarak. books. >> it is a large country and we have stability here. we enjoy stability. we have a permanent constitution. it has been amended for a number of times. i recall that once you asked me in one of your interviews, is that the president being elected only by the parliament means some sort of incomplete democracy. at the same moment, that moment i was ready to propose amendments to the constitution and we amended 34 article that was unprecedented. this is in the interest of

stability, in the interest of insuring people about future. it is not small country on which we take decisions just like that. it is a stable country and it will remain a stable one after mubarak and after the man who comes after mubarak. >> charlie: speaking of that, there are those who believe that you would like for your son gamal to come after you. >> this was never raised between my son and myself. he started his career in banking with bank of america in london and then he turned to egypt. and he was against joining the party and it was only after a long effort that he joined the party. it is not ony mind to have my

son inherit me. and as well, choice election of the president is open to the population in its entirety. it is the decision of the population to elect who would represent people. it is not for me to decide that. it is the decision of the people to elect the person who they trust. who would that person be? well we have a long time. we have still two years to come. >> charlie: do you think he's ready to be president? >> i will ask him or u can ask him. don't ask me. >> charlie: you will not dissolve parliament. you will not dissolve parliament

any time soon. >> there are many rumors. >> charlie: yes, that's why i ask. >> and there is freedom of speech. people say that the pairirnt this -- parliament, this or that except once a decision by the supreme constitution of the court and the more good opposition you have, the better, the more strong, the stronger our members would be. but rumors are there. somebody may say before, somebody may say may say after.

i hear these rumors like any other person. >> charlie: but then why don't you simply say i will not dissolve parliament? >> i can't say that i will not dissolve the parliament. there might be some circumstances. i don't have any at the moment but there might be some circumstances that call for the dissolution of the parliament. but at the moment there is no single point that merits the dissolution of the parliament. the dissolution of the parliament becomes imperative only when there is addressing demand. >> charlie: mr. president, this weekend you go to washington. you will be there monday and tuesday, you will meet with the president and the vice president. character-wise, where the relationship is with the united states, today under president

obama. >> after the elections and after winning the elections contacted me and that took place twice. when he went to the whitehouse, he contacted me. and when he came to deliver his speech from cairo here, it was an excellent speech that enshould, assured the arab and muslim countries and people and it was a clear and loud message to all arab and muslim countries. before that, there was some sort of unease and concern about the leader's administration. but i also met him in rome

duringnghe g-15 meeting. it was not a long time to talk, but when he visited cairo, we covered all the issues and how to handle the same. and i did find him and understanding man who wants to listen and to take informed decisions. and he's opened two opinions. i advised him to listen to everybody and after that you will make a full picture about which you can take informed decisions. and i'm very optimistic on the steps to be taken by president obama. he is well balanced in all his speeches and addresses.

particularly within the context of violence particularly in arab and d aq, the concerns in the arab and muslim countries. once again, i think the obama cairo speech was an excellent piece of work. >> charlie: it created new opportunities? >> do you mean new opportunities at peaea, yes. >> charlie: what did it accomplish, the speech? >> you know of course the speech and you listened to, it assured the muslim world because before that the feeling was that there was a great and extreme bias against the muslim people by the leader's administration. and that created great concerns among the muslims, particularly the leaders of the countries.

but with the obama speech, it became clear that he is not against islam, that america is not against islam. this is quite important. so much so that -- wanted to confer the doctorate to obama but the time was so short that he couldn't do that in time. >> charlie: there is always time. do you sense that he is about to launch his initiative for the middle east? >> president obama is collecting information and he sent george mitchell a number of times and he conferred with us during each time we explained our position and each time he comes to cairo.

he visited syria, he visited saudi arabia, other countries. and this is to grasp the issues which is a good thing. it's much better than taking a decision without listening to the country's concern. it might damage these countries, it might as well damage the reputation of and image of the united states. and this is what happened. there was the decision to go to iraq. and that despite the fact there was no mass destruction weapons. and going to afghanistan as well. russia stayed eight years in afghanistan. however, russia did not achieve anything and the russians

admitted that fact. there was a gentleman from the russian position came to me and said they stayed with all kinds of weapons for eight years in afghanistan without achieving a thing. so, so, and wait until we see what the americans achieve. and i often repeated that but the u.s. administration was adamant on something decided apriory. >> charlie: do you think that they should get out of afghanistan. >> if i can say the following. in iraq, there is a grain of stability but that will take time. the situation in iraq is not an

easy one and i told everybody. when mr. bush said that i would invite democracy into iraq, i said i wish you could do. every population has its own nature, culture, customs and history. you can not come and make some carbon copy of each population as that of the american people. even the country and the peoples in this region are different. >> charlie: my impression was you were never comfortable with the bush administration. >> that's why i did not visit the united states since the year 2004. i didn't visit the united states since 04. there are certain rumors that i

am not visiting america or i was not visiting america because of issues related to political. >> charlie: do you think the bush administration was right to promote democracy in the region in the way that it did. >> no. look, we do not accept pressures in politics or in theory, domestic politics from any administration with respect to all governments. we do not accept pressures -- reform has to be home grown. and it is what the people demand. this is one issue. but to accept pressure from an administration or another, this pressure might be against the interest of the people. i responded to the demands of

the people. >> charlie: do you believe president obama has a different attitude and idea publicly about democracy and reform than president bush. has he said so to you? >> i can't say exactly that. but i think that president obama understands well what was done by the previous administration. democracy is there in egypt. we have freedoms that were not there before. we have an election of the president, we have freedom of e press, we have about 600 dailies and weeklies that was taken. and the power of the parliament

to even do away with the government. we are doing reforms based on the demands of the people and i think president obama does understand this very well. >> charlie: it is said that he will not publicly discuss human rights. he does not want it to be an issue but that he will bring it up in private. >> look, please. human rights is immediately a political one. human rights are not only political, you have social rights, you have the right to health, you have the right to job, there are many other rights. and we are doing well on these fronts. but what we are not absolutely

perfect and nobody's perfect. we have human rights commission, we have supervision of that. and he or she that would not abide by law is brought to the book before a court of law. we have a strong supervision on the administrative side, administrative supervision and there have been many sentences against people who have breached human rights. it is not immediately a concept, it is social and it is as one. >> charlie: much is written about the fact that in the election, the most -- the last election in which there was more candidates, that since then you have moved away and that you have cracked down on the muslim

brotherhood. >> let somebody read the egyptian constitution to you and the amendments we have introduced therein. these people who i'm talking about cannot form that political party. because our constitution maintains and stipulates that a political body shall never be based on a religious basis. they cannot form that and this is part and parcel of the constitution as amended by the people. but the muslim brotherhood are there as individuals, mp's, we have about 80 of them.

>> charlie: do you fear the muslim brotherhood? do you worry that they are close to hamas, they are close to other islamic ... >> i know that they have some contacts with them. they have contacts with hamas. they have contacts with hezbollah. these are well-known and they have contacts with many organizations. they have contacts with international groups based in geneva but we can't contain this. >> charlie: you're not worried. >> we do not fear such things. >> charlie: the main subject between you and president obama will be peace in the middle

east. israel and palestine. tell me where that is. tell me what egypt's role is. your own general has met with hamas, with kata, he's met with israel. have you made major progress. >> we share boundaries with palestinians, we share boundaries with jordan, shares boundaries with the west bank. the stability of this part of the world needs the stability of the arab region. but failing to s sve this issue with the stability of the globe. we are trying to solve the problem between hamas and the authorities in the west bank because this is quite important. we should fill the gap here. we should bridge the gap because

unless we reconcile their differences, there will not be stability there, there will not be stability where the violence occurred. we are doing our best to bring about stability without which and without solving this issue. the facts on the ground will be very very challenging. >> charlie: are you making any progress? >> sure, we have made progress. but it will take time. you know, since we are dealing with hamas and the palestinian authority does take time. and the process is some sort of external intervention. for instance, we were just about

to facilitate delivery of the prisoner chalet. >> charlie: with hamas -- >> we were about to secure his release and solve this problem but external interventions outside interventions interfered in that but we are working on that end in cooperation with the germans. >> charlie: it is said that the israelis, you have suggested this, that the israelis made extra demands and prevented you and egypt from gaining control of the prisoner so that you could return him in exchange for palestinians. that the problem was that you had a deal and israel made additional demands.

is that true? >> you have a good deal of proof in what you said. we had agreed on at least a number of the prisoners. but at one point in time, israel added certain terms and conditions that impeded progress. that is in addition to external interventions. so we are doing an effort and the germans are willing to join hands and we do welcome them in order to secure that. the deal was to take care of chalet and release a number of prisoners and when this is done we will hand over chalet over. we are still following this intelligence organization's working on that and we still have hope to conclude this on a

good note. >> charlie: do you think it's likely to happen soon? >> i can't say that certainly. because dealing with others takes time. for instance when we are doing some reconciliation at the 11th hour, you'll find a new difference, you'll find new terms and conditions. and we received hamas delegations, we received the -- and the process is on and we still have great hope we will conclude this successfully successfully. >> charlie: it is also said you wanted to bring together hamas and others and that syria prevented you from having a conference. >> i don't mention any country

in particular by name. but i know that there are certain interventions by other countries. i cannot say, i cannot say that syria is the one that impeded things, you know that. i know, you know and i know that. it is clear the contacts with iran are clear and there are constant contacts between them, hamas and gaza. you might have heard about the demonstrations that were staged in tehran a couple days back ago. they say no gaza, no lebanon. we are, we can spin our blood

for the sake of tehran. no gaza, no gaza. and no lebanon referring to hezbollah. but we could sacrifice their lives for the sake of death. but they don't care about gaza, they don't care about lebanon. this would give you the bottom line of what's going on. >> charlie: do you believe iran plays a destabilizing role? >> i would like to tell you something about iran. iran and the internal problems

we have of the country, there is some interference of other countries, from foreign countries, not from iran that pushed the iranians to hold these demonstrations and the strikes and all these things. isuppose there is some part interfering with iran. in the meantime, however, until iran, i say to iran, if you complain of the interventions against the forces of iran, i will say to you, don't interfere with the home affairs of other arab countries. like lebanon, like hamas and others. since you complain of this external or foreign interference, so don't do it with other countries. >> charlie: there is this idea in this region, the middle

east and the gulf that egypt and iran are competing to be the dominant regional force. egypt, iran. >> first, i would not compare ourselves to iran. iran is not an arab country to start with. >> charlie: in the region. >> so in the arab countries, they are trying, they are attempting. but our effort is known. they are trying to dominate certain arabs but they will not succeed in this. we are capable, we are not competing with them and our role is well-known in the region. however we will not compete with

the region. seems to be that people are thinking, have some wishful thinking saying this. >> charlie: do you think israel will allow iran to have a nuclear weapon? >> only before -- and the defense -- israel. all of them are against weapons in iran. our understanding is the whole region should be free of all forms or types of -- whether it's iran or israel. this doesn't mean iran will come up with something and others

also. this will be a problem. >> charlie: it is also said that you are urging president obama to urge israel not to use, not to engage in a strike against iran. >> i would like to say something. this issue of the capability of iran, if it goes onward and it happened that military force of this is against the whole region. against use of military power. that's why i say this should be so amicable and i commend iran. i call that they have sufficient flexibility to negotiate with representatives of america to resolve this issue in order that

no military actions would be brought about. we want to stop all military activity. >> charlie: there is some debate in america as to whether the obama administration is correct in reengaging, reengaging with iran. should they? >> so i think negotiations between iran and usa is much better a solution if they can achieve some conclusions without choosing the military force. >> charlie: let me come back to arab, palestinian and israeli palestinian. the arab initiative is considered to be a bargaining position. >> the arab initiative is very clear.

if israel has some of the problems between them and the palestinian and two states are established, israel with a palestine, two states, i think arabs can have normal relations with israel. >> charlie: settlements have to stop. >> i have another point of view. and instead of stopping more settlements and we heard this many times. what i can say that we have to consider the whole issue holistically. on the final resolution i want to have some temporary or final solutions. i said forget about temporary because the peoples will think that this is the final step.

my point of view is that, i say the final solution. so we havean agreed for final resolution. if we can do this with palestinians, i think this would be a very good time. >> charlie: and what's necessary to do it? what has to happen to make the agreement? to create a palestinian state that israel feels security, so that they will not be hamas or someone else on the west bank able to lob missiles into the israeli international airport. >> how to come to this agreement, we are working on this resolution between hamas

and palestinians. if we can come to a conclusion, especially if it interferes, we can convince the authority to sit with israeli prime ministers. that's the optimum solution. >> charlie: what progress have you made to get $5 billion reconstruction going to gaza? >> no one has received any money so far. we had a conference and we agreed on $5 billion but until now, who is going to receive this amount of money.

so one should take it and spend it so we need a committee to agree on a committee using these funds. it's not to be given to hamas or to be given to the authority as well. >> charlie: you believe that until hamas and fatah can agree, there can be no peace. >> this is correct. and we are working on this. and we observed laborious efforts we tried to overcome with hamas. if we reach this point i believe ter that will go much easier.

>> charlie: benjamin netanyahu is talking about what. >> about getting together and solving these problems. final border lines or temporary ones and there is some sort of agreement between netanyahu and barack also agreed that we come to the final solution and implementation on stages. it should be of course a very tough negotiation but this is better. >> charlie: i have asked you this before. do you believe benjamin netanyahu, the prime minister of israel is prepared to see a state of palestine? is he ready? >> you ask me, i want you to understand, i and the israeli press say the father of netanyahu say i will not allow a

state. i think you should have a palestinian state but this might be something that these insurgence without the establishment of palestinians, no stability would be achieved and would be continued with this violence. and the region will never be calm, i think. now it is the right time that we should achieve a resolution. netanyahu, when he formed his gogornment and had approval, then he had the minister of trade. he told me this government will be a government for peace. >> charlie: is he prepared to take a risk for peace? >> i think he should take a risk. >> charlie: and what risk are

you prepared to take? >> yes? >> charlie: what are you prepared to give to create, contribute to peace between the palestinians and the israelis? >> we are working on this. we are very keen there should be stability and no stability unless we have the palestinians, the inner problems and association with them. and assist also as regarding the meeting between the authority, with the israeli government. or did you mean something else. >> charlie: no, i djtd. i meant exactly that. there are some who suggests that there ought to be a syrian track. go to damascus, that's where you start because they have

influence with hamas. >> i don't want to talk about syria. by the fact some problems with them but it is an arab state. but we cannot stop. they can impede, maybe through interference by iran because they had political offers in damascus. but the people, looking for peace, even people in gaza, they want peace. and if the people wanted to have peace, nothing can stop when there are military attackson gaza. many people were killed and many buildings were destructed and were so much impacted with the

border lines with us. and people want to live and i called the minister of defense and called for stopping this. we invited the prime minister of france, and they were with us. and this was stopped, this has to stop because people want to live in peace. >> charlie: what role is cutter playing? cutter, the emir, where al jazeera comes from. >> don't get me into trouble. >> charlie: tell me what you think. cutter. >> cutter can play a good role. >> charlie: are they playing a good role. are they playing. >> if they want. >> charlie: but they're not now? >> i cannot say for sure because there was nothing clear before me to decide. >> charlie: they want to play

a role. >> okay, they play a role. they can play a good role for the sake of peace. we want peace, you did, i did, anyone which is not the point, but peace is what matters. >> charlie: when your friend president obama came to cairo and made the famous speech he talked about democrat z peace, women he talked about economic development and he talked about extremism. where is the battle today between the sources of extremism and the forces of moderation? >> i think this question you could have asked it to the

previous administration. the previous administration, the politics that we have which is combating terrorism which was applied tens of times. and the forces increased. so what happened in iraq, iraq was distracted, afghanistan. it was difficult to control afghanistan. i'm saying to you frankly, afghanistan is very mountainous area. we used to deal with them before how to handle them. you see the clans and the tribes. you see the heads of tribes. you try to talk to the people, do some development for them. you can save your expense to

attack. the russians had said that. they were eight years bombing afghanistan and they have no access. i think the optimal solution is to have development in afghanistan and discussing matters with the heads of tribes and clans, this might save you a lot of bloodshed that's happened. >> charlie: is the role of women in the metal -- middle east going to change, is it changing in egypt? the role of women. >> don't you know that the role of woman has changed? we amended the constitution for the sake of women is one of the main points for women in the parliament. we have, i think the exact number of parliament women. we have women in alexandra the first time, the president is a

woman. we have female ministers and professors and deans of different colleges. now women is working in the political field. we have a lot of them. so the role of woman has changed radically especially in our country in egypt. and the constitution gives the right for women to certain cab nuts for running for election in the parliament. >> charlie: let me make -- there are a number of points i want to make here. one, you've had emergency rule since 1981. emergency rule. you should be confident enough, confident enough in your leadership not to have to. >> you will not grasp fully the emergency rule. it has been there since the days of the british occupation and it

used to be called marshall law. we confide our recourse to the emergency law to terrorist crimes. otherwise it is the rule of law under the couous of law. but do not believe what you say. we have demonstrations. if you go to the letter of the emergency law, nobody would go to the administration. and this emergency law was agreed upon by the majority. >> charlie: but is it still necessary. >> it was presented in the parliament might be the muslim brotherhood. we have two choices.

either to issue a role to combat imperialism which will be a permanent law, it was refused because nobody wanted a permanent law. and the second choice is emergency rules that will be used exclusively for terrorists crimes. for instance to close down a wspaper or to contain or limit freedom of movement. any other argument is missing. >> charlie: do you believe the muslim brotherhood is good for egypt? >> good or bad. as long as they do not commit any terrorist crimes, i don't care. >> charlie: you don't care.

>> history is there to read. >> charlie: the history of egypt for the last 28 years is the history of one man, hosni mubarak. that's theistory of egypt. what is your legacy. what are you proud of. what will they say about you when you leave? >> is that i have been working in public service for 60 years. i took part, i saw action. i rebuilt the country after military action. we revamped the entire infrastructure of egypt. we are improving education, we are expanding education. we are building and doing many

other things. >> charlie: would egypt be safe if you left. >> very safe. egypt is a large country. egypt has a constitution and the constitution sets clear the role of each and everybody and nobody can violate the constitution. but if egypt were one man as you say or as it is said, i wouldn't have done anything. i work with the head of institutions, with the help of the parliament much -- the parliament. it is strong now.. it can bring down government losing the vote of confidence. it can change the budget the way they decide, the way the parliament decides. we have amended 34 articles in the constitution. this is unprecedented. >> charlie: mr. president,

with respect, many people say that there will not be a leader of egypt who is not acceptable to the army. as you have been. as anwar sadat was, as naser was. all of the same tradition, the free offices tradition. that has not changed in egypt. you know that, i know that. >> it might change afterwards, this might change afterwards. nobody knows who will succeed. we have elections. when the time comes for election, the people will vote. naser was an officer. i stayed in the armed forces until i reached the highest

rank. and i saw action. and i was decorated at the highest level. it is not mine is going to become president. i served as vice president doing lots of efforts for six years as vice president. then, then i took over as president. >> charlie: that's my point is that there is no one going to become president of egypt who is not acceptable to the military. >> no, no. i don't agree to this statement. >> charlie: many people in their right, the economist magazine that there is a new future for the arab world. egypt is the leaders of the arab world along with saudi arabia and other countries. tell me how you see that. the future for the arab world. because some say, you know, that

egypt and others are more modern, more en gauged, more entrepreneurial and more free. that's the future. >> more free. >> charlie: more free. >> this is right, there is a valid statement. yes, there is a big awakening in the arab region. there are new generations and there is new blood in the public service and there is quite a change under going in the arab world. >> charlie: thank you. >> thank you. >> charlie: from the presidential palace in cairo, the president of egypt, hosni mubarak. the thank you for joining us. we will see you tomorrow night as the president engages

tomorrow morning with the president of the united states. see you tomorrow night.

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