>> charlie: welcome to the broadcast. tonight the l.l. doctorow, thinks huh novel "homer and langley." >> you live in the sentences, you don't have any thought beyond that. just trying to make the thing work. and what i've found about this book is that the conversation between these two brothers is a life-long conversation. they don't always agree and homer has general forbearance for some of lagley's successes. but there is a conversation going on.

as if two people traveling down a road except their housebound mr. or less. so the road is coming through them. >> charlie: a conversation about the future about wireless and smart phones and all of those devices and 4g with the c.e.o. of print nextel daniel hesse. >> the speed that we're going, we've been behind that. and now all of a sudden we're moving at speed we're hitting that point, we're not only wireless devices, but what i was describing earlier not just the phone any more almost everything is going to be connect wire wirelessly doctor doctorow and hesse coming up.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: the great e.l. doctorow is here. his novels have won a national book award two, national book credit i can circle awards and the penn faulkner award. many have been best sellers including "rag time" with his latest effort he returns to a favorite setting, new york in the early 20th century a. account of recluses who fill their townhouses with decades of newspapers and found things. i am pleased to have him back.

>> thank you. >> charlie: beyond writing novels you still teach at nyu? >> yes, i do. >> charlie: the chair? >> yes. >> charlie: how many classes do you teach? >> well, i teach one course called "the craft of fiction" a reading course for writers going through books and seeing how they work breaking them down, understanding their composition. >> charlie: you've been president -- you've met president obama, gave a little reading list before he went on vacation, you were one of his favorites? >> yes. i was very pleased to hear that. i would have voted for him -- >> charlie: even if he't read your books. >> that's right. >> charlie: what was he going to read? >> i don't know exactly. he may have been talking about "the march" the -- sheer machine's campaign. >> charlie: we talked about that fur an hour here on this program. >> we did. >> charlie: do you need real life characters to fashion your novels? >> no, i don't. not at all.

just sort of -- that old -- >> charlie: sherman was one. >> it started with "rag time" quite by accident. >> charlie: started with "rag time?" yeah. at the time people were quite shocked i was using historical characters. of course writers have always done this. napoleon is a character in "war and peace" and of course shakespeare used julius caesar and a lot of other people, richard iii. >> charlie: henry v. on and on. >> now it's not such a shocking thing. >> charlie: let's start with two things. first of all the dedication. >> that's right. >> charlie: great editor of our time. yes, indeed. this is how the book starts. "i'm homer, the blind brother." >> that's the line that got me writing the book. i wrote that line down one morning, i didn't quite

understand it. then i realized that this late interest i had in the collier brothers had just popped up -- >> charlie: latent interest? >> yes. i knew about them as a boy. when they died it was a big news story. they became instant folklore these recluses o collected things more than most of us collect things. >> charlie: tell us about them first. then we'll get to the first line. what was the true story of the collier brothers? >> well, the true story was that they came from very good family. they opted out, somewhere along the line after their parents died they went in to the house, closed the doors and the shutters and decided to live by themselves without any true connection with the outside world. they despised the utilities and

the utilities -- the city and the health department and they were embattled for many years. they didn't pay their bills. the electric tritee was cut off. the water was cut off. they were a little bit paranoid and one of them was physically helpless, dependent on the other. what happened was that langley took all of his junk and bails of paper and stuff and created traps and snares for presumed interlopers and prowlers. but he fell down and somehow tripped wire, one of these things, the junk collapsed and killed him. and homer, who was waiting around for help, never got it, he died of starvation. police when they finally moved in they couldn't get through the door, they had to drill a hole through the roof to enter the house and tons of refuse and

things were dispotioned of and they had no relatives. after they were buried the city tore the house down, made a little park on 128th street and 5th avenue. called the collier brothers park, which some of the neighbors 50 years later objected to. >> charlie: this happened when? >> diet in the late '40s. >> charlie: 1947 i think. >> of course, instant folklore, they were instant legends. and i wasn't the only teenage boy whose mother looked in his room said, my god, it's the collier brothers. >> charlie: and so -- what triggered you to write this? >> well, i wrote this line. >> charlie: i'm homer blind brother. >> i realized that this is something always interested me. as a matter of fact there are seeds of this book in earlier books in "ragtime" the little boy who is at the center of the

story is said to value things discarded by other people. and in billy bath, i have a character named garbage who is an orphan boy who collects stuff on the streets and lives in a cellar of a house with all these refuse. somehow this idea has always appealed to me as meaningful. it was the idea of the collier brothers that interested me. >> charlie: you're interested in an idea that came from them. >> exactly. the point is, they have two existences, the colliers, the historic and myth i can existence. sort of like abraham lincoln only less exalted. the myth i can ex is pans interested me and when you're dealing with myth, you don't have to do research, saw don't have to worry about the details. >> charlie: but here is what i don't understand.

i don't understand why you're not curious to do that. i know you don't need to do that, but is it counter productive to know too much? >> absolutely. i've known many writers who researched things exhaustively and stopped in their tracks, they couldn't condition. you can't know too much if you use your imagination. you write to find out what you are writing. that is the process in fiction writing. >> charlie: you write to find out what you're writing. >> exactly so. >> charlie: you once said to me, writing is a process of discovery. >> yes. you don't feel possessive real estate but what you'ren.úyou'rer and the reader. you lay down a sentence and you read it and just with the same surprise or interest that the reader will have. >> charlie: the sentence "i'm homer the blind brother" what was the significance that have? >> it was just tremendously evocative. and i realized that he was a

myth that demanded interpretation. and i thought of the book as an active ever breaking and entering, getting in to their house and mind and imagination. >> charlie: that's just simply in to your mind because you don't know what was in their mind you're just imagining them based on limit amount of information. >> well, there was a limited amount of information available, actually, there's not much to say about people like this. you wonder why they are like that. and -- >> charlie: that's the story why are they like that? >> yes. primarily -- before all the junk was collected they opted out. they chose this question. >> charlie: why would someone look inward instead of out? >> well, it seemed to me that there had to be a certain despair involved. that's why i have langley coming home from world war i having been gassed. and being generally grim about

the nature of the human race. all the millions of people killed and destroyed in word war ii. and homer as a blind young man gradually coming to realize, very gradually that he has a disability because what i portray is his hearing, which is very acute. he's very proud of it. and it's compensatory. and while he has that hearing he doesn't feel disabled at all. i see them as coming in to the house and trying to create meaning for their lives and making it sensible. and this happens in various ways. for instance, langley takes to collect can the daily newspapers. all of them in those days they were seven or eight major day lease in new york. and he's collecting them and the question is, why. and what i propose that he's decided to do a research as kind

of an aggregator like google and come up with a seem nill acts of behavior of human beings and major news stories. and eventually by this research to create one newspaper for all time. an edition that has to be out of date. colliers one edition for all time newspaper. it's kind of a grim ironic idea he has, perhaps not entirely serious. but does keep him busy. >> charlie: you are a -- your collier brothers are more interesting than the real collier brothers. >> i should hope so. >> charlie:. >> charlie: are they nicer? >> just as shakespeare to come up with richard the iii -- >> charlie: to make a comparison among writers. >> another writer, just as shakes mere -- >> charlie: another writer who stole from real life. >> shakespeare's richard iii is more interesting than the real richard iii.

you know there's a society in england called the richard the iii society. trying to rescue his reputation from the remnants of shakespeare's play. >> charlie: excellent. >> that's right. that he wasn't a distorted serial murderer. he was a good, kind king who tried to help his people. that is their position. which is more interesting? that's probably the most popular play that shakespeare ever wrote. >> charlie: is it really? i would have thought "hamlet" would be. >> "richard the iii" is instructive to the nature of thf people to be more than other people. to have power. to express yourself without limit. it's very instructive play. and it's been very useful to people, over the centuries that stuck in people's minds.

>> charlie: what do you think you're doing? >> well, i don't know. what you do is you write these books and you live in them, you live in sentences, you don't have any thought beyond that. you are just trying to make the thing work. what i have found about this book is that the conversation between these two brothers is a life long conversation. they don't always agree, homer has forbearance for some of langley's excesses. but there is a conversation going on as if they are two people traveling down a road except their housebound more or less. so the road was coming through them. and the world is coming in to that house because people won't let them alone. and when they do wander around, they 'tract people. there's one episode in which they are so badly dressed with

long wear and unkempt grooming they attract some hippies in central park who come home with them. and in this way, just one of the ways in which the world intrudes in their house and so it's a road novel. >> charlie: a majority of people are hoarders, don't you think? aggregators, hoarders? >> everyone -- >> collectors. >> absolutely. in a sense i think of them not as -- i hate to be expression pack rats, i think of them as aggregators, as curators of the life and times. but not as pack rats. i think of them as creating a museum of american life right in that house. >> charlie: you had to have a reason there for the mythical newspaper. >> colliers one edition of all time. >> charlie: that was his

reason for hoarding. you gave him a reason for hoarding. >> but homer wonders how serious it is. and it wasn't just newspapers, of course. he built, brought in pieces of a model t ford set them up in the dining room. >> exactly. >> then tried to use the engine to generate electricity so he didn't have to work with con edison. they do have their adventures. it's not a quiet life. it's very active life. >> charlie: why do you write? >> why do i write? because i'm good at it. why do people do what they do? because there's some connection to some fit, that works for them. why does derek jeter play baseball? >> charlie: i was just thinking of ted williams once said to me, i said, why baseball? meaning not football, not some other sport.

he said, because i was good at it. >> yeah. that's true. and he was. he was terrific. >> charlie: so, how do you know you're good? >> you learn that very early age. when teachers begin to tell you that your compositions are really good and you should keep writing. or even members of your family are proudly introducing you to embarrassment to other people as "the writer in the family also, i happen to be named after edgar alan poe which was an injunction there. children are named as a wish behind a name, isn't there? my father did love the work of edgar alan poe. actuae liked a lot of bad writers, but poe was our greatest bad writer that's my consolation. >> charlie: our greatest bad writer? >> he is. amazingly good and bad at the same time. >> charlie: this is silly question but i'm fond of silly questions. would you rather create the

perfect sort of novelistic conceit of a story that has great meaning and transcends and connects with everybody's life and has power or write a good book that had perfectly constructed sentences? >> why would you have things like that? why not take them both and put them together? and just -- >> charlie: in one more important than the other for you? >> well, i don't make divisions of that sort in my mind. the books always start with some feeling, some evocative start from a phrase or picture or phrase of music. something that you find mysteriously exciting. and these guys were mysterious to me. they had to be understood.

they had to be interpreted. but all the books -- this book started with that line, other books have started, "billy bathgate" started with, men in black ties standing on a tug bet on the deck of a tug boat. it seemed odd -- >> charlie: have black ties on a tug boat? >> then it turned out that they were there to take one of their members out in to new york march before and dump him in the water for betrayal he committed to the gang. >> charlie: that's why they were there. >> the minute i had that, i had the boyy watching in the very first paragraph, jumping on board just as the tug boat took off and that started that book. >> charlie: how do you know when you're at the end? >> well, you know you're approaching the end, at least i do, by the time you are that far

along in the book, you don't have many choices. everything has kind of an inevitable movement. like arrow getting anyway ower and narrower. then you think, we're coming to the end of this, this particular book i wrote the last paragraph and didn't realize it was the end. then i found i couldn't go on any further. i said, oh, that's the end. then so i looked around for the nearest vodka bottle. >> charlie: do you put anything in it or just take it straight? >> put a little on ice actually. >> charlie: that's the way you celebrate? >> yeah. well, the celebration does go on in one way or another. >> charlie: e.l. doctorow "homer and langley" a novel, we'll be right back. stay with us.

>> charlie: dan hesse is here the c.e.o. of sprint nextel the third largest wireless carrier. he has been a lifetime in the telecom business including 23 years at at&t. his idea to offer a flat fee for cell phone usage revolutionized the industry now trying to turn around sprint which is lost millions of subscribers in recent years. he has made customers service a company central focus and implemented simpler pricing strategies. print's edge and data could be the key to its future, i'm pleased to have him here to talk about this business that all of us are familiar with. the future of mobile technology and 4g all of that, welcome. >> thanks, charlie, good to be here. >> charlie: let's do a history, a primer for money doesn't know. just by reading some of your speeches i learned some interesting stuff. which is, there is one cell phone for every two people in the planet. which means by definition i guess as about 3.3 billion cell

phones in existence because we have 6.6 billion people on the planet. >> we've gone from zero to four billion almost in 26 years. >> charlie: it becomes a trillion dollars indiana tree at 14 point. >> very soon like next year one of five trillion dollar industries. tourism, food, auto. that's right. and wireless. was looking at stat that said there are ten cell phones produced ten times more cell phones produced each day than babies are born in the world. the trajectory is moving up. >> charlie: i wonder fit has made more new rich people, whatever the standard is today than any other business? you think about all those countries, whether it's india, the middle east, or asia where they did not have phones of any kind all of a sudden, everybody, one out of every two people has cell phone. >> it's revolutionized their lives. before i joined sprint was the

board of nokia, the largest mobile phone producer, but very large in developing world like middle east and india and china where there is roughly 50% marketshare. it's just amazing what the cell phones have done culturally for many people not only the phone, we might talk about this later, the known is become almost like swiss army knife in those countries, it's the flashlight. they don't have power they might live in a tent or shed they can get charged during the day they come home it's their light at night in addition to their communication. >> charlie: they don't even go the land line business any more, do they? >> no. skip rightover it completely. if you look at history of cell phones in 26 years ago, people talk about g, when -- that stands for generations when people are watching ads on tv they talk about 3g and 4 gks. 1g was analog. that was the beginning. then 2g came along and 2g was digital you hear acronyms like gsm and cdma that was going text and low speed data.

that's the cell phones were invented in the u.s., had lead. actually analog you think killer an was car phones. remember those big heavy expensive things. then gsm came along, cdma in the u.s., and then it also began to in the first generation, wireless was growing really organically. second generation started to cannibalize. if you remember, i was with at&t, ten years ago before digital, with digital typically with each generation you get 5x improvement in cost and performance. so from 1g to 2g, from a cross elasticity point of view -- >> charlie: cost five times -- >> five times basically for -- you could get five times more capacity in given amount of air the cost to send digital was one-fifth for a carrier of what it was in analog. allowed rate plans to get better w. digital, in second generation, you had things like digital one rate which you

mention the earlier at at&t. ten years ago you went to airport pay phones as far as the eye can see. and lines. now you can't find one. they're basically gone. pay phone business, calling card business has gone away. talk about other countries, watches. 73% of cell phone users check their time on their phone not on a watch. cameras, nokia is largest camera maker in the world. as a matter of fact there's more cell phones that have been produced with cameras in them than all cameras ever made, stand alone cameras, digital and film. put that in perspective. it's beginning to eat in to affect other industries. about 2g, gone to 3g now.that'. that's really when you get smart phones and the iphone and blackberry and all these really smart oss. and now you have -- >> charlie: operating systems. >> operating system, whether it's apple os, palm's os was

revolutionary in that it duplicated the desktop experience which is ability to do multi-tasking. and hilting the market google's backing which is very open. lot of these oss are getting much more powerful. microsoft just launched 6.5 and going to 7.0 windows mobile. the oss are really moving rapidly. the big game changer, it's out in 3g, it's also coming outs in 4g to dual mode. what are called myfi devices. there's a wireless standard that's been out there for a long time, it's almost ubiquitous called wi-fi. and you have 425, 500 million, whatever the number of devices, active wi-fi devices out in there the u.s. right now that now can become mobile with these little puck, is that are like cable modem and wi-fi router in your pocket. that is 3g version. >> charlie: that will do what

for you? >> allow you to take five devices with you on the road. it can be your phone, your pc, your net book, your mp3 player, your gaming device. your camera, camcorder, they're all connected to the internet so you're basically hot spot is no longer the size of coffee shop or the size of your apartment it's the size of a city or the size of country. so at 3g speeds they operate really well but at 4g i think see adoption of these devices. >> charlie: carry you're own wi-fi spot. >> they will carry them because all of these devices can be mobile. you're going to start to see wi-fi put almost u quick with usually in everything. and on the phone network. i saw saw stat that supposedly 44% of iphone use is over wi-fi. because it's so much faster than the at&t network which is akin to 4g speed. you have -- this is what has

been one of the big changes that i've seen in the industry, it's been typically ten, 15 years between generations. 1g to 3g, when they were being made, spectrum being auctioned years ago like, what are the applicationsyapplicationsy do we need 3g. it's barely in the ground everything is moving to 4g. launching 4g cities -- >> charlie: tell us the difference in 3g and 4g? >> 5x. each generation is basically half oregon order of magnitude. the reason i would care, five times the speed, but because of cost i can get my bucket of gigabytes instead of minutes, used to be bucket of minutes in the voice world. amount that i can use, you can use about knife times as much for the same price as that. that's why i. experience is more like the home cable modem experience in terms of speed so it's truly like a mobile hot spot when you get to 4g. see explosion in the number of -- >> charlie: how many mobile

devices do you want to carry? >> up to the individual. what i want to carry for what i'm doing. what's been happening in the industry, as we move to let's say smart phones which is 3g. is they become, really becoming swiss army knives. and it's of course my watch and my calendar, my e-mail, my camera, my gps, it's my computer. but you have to make compromises on each of those to be able to have them all in one device. what i think we're going to see is, smart notion will be able to do more and more things that you had to that smart phone. but with these hockey pucks, you know, i would like to take digital slr camera take it at 15 megapixels but the reason that i have been taking camera version is, i want to upload the picture right now. but if it's got wi-fi in it, also if it has 4g take other ever to take 15 megapixel camera shot, shoot it up, share it with somebody on 3g. on 4g like.

that that's why i care. with 4g all of these other devices, high definition camcorders, larger screens. if i want to watch television on the row road or download movies. i may not want to carry with it me all the time. but when i travel, like a kin dell, give you example. a great 3d device. not something i can carry. >> charlie: how many things do you take with you? >> i have average of five different cell phones in my briefcase at any one time. >> charlie: why do you have five different cell phones? >> i want to be familiar -- i'm in the exwis. >> charlie: you want to know what iphones, blackberry is doing, sprint doing, verizon is doing, what at&t? >> i want to know what all sprint devices are. all of our different models. so we have reclaim which is this green environmental phone. the blackberry tour. the palm pre. getting ready to launch new android devices. i want to be good -- >> charlie: android being

google. >> it is an operating system. it is -- >> charlie: google uses it? >> google sponsored the development of android. when you see our phones it will say, you'll see the google brand as well as sprint brand. >> charlie: you are big believer in partnering, aren't you? >> very much so. actually, our 4g talking about 4g we've done that in partnership with google, intel, time warner, comcast and brighthouse. because it's not just the fact that they can bring money, because part of fixing sprint is generating cash flow and taking down the debt. these networks when you build out 3-bgs 3g and 4g are expensive. i can mitigate the cost by having them share in the investment of building out this 4g network they can bring great things to the table. >> charlie: what are the things that are influencing development the most? >> a lot has to did with price. there is this magic point at 2-300. these smart phones are $7 40. very expensive. they're -- >> charlie: iphone, i don't

mean to use apple as example. but you can buy iphone now for $199. >> that's correct. >> charlie: sprint phone for -- >> sprint and at&t pay $600. we sell it to you for $200 in exchange for two-year contract. and because it's -- >> charlie: explain the numbers. give me that again. sprint being a network. >> when you sign up for what's called post pay, two parts of the business generally called pre-pay and post-pay. this is one ever the misunderstandings a lot of customers have around early termination fees, how come i can't get a new phone, i just -- why can't i get the same price as new customer. it's because the carrier has subsidized that phone to a large extent tent typically selling it to you for a third to quarter of what we pay for it even when we're buying in volume. i don't know exactly what -- at&t won't tell me what they pay for iphone. if you read most of the press,

financial press they think iphone cost about $600 sell them for $200. but so they -- you are paying $400 less than retail. but you sign up for two-year contract. at&t makes it up over 24 easy payments of blank. but that is really spurred adoption much more because if the iphone was $600, everybody wouldn't have one. or palm pre if they were $600. >> charlie: where is the price point that makes a difference? >> we think it's around -- somewhere $200 clearly is magic. $300 is first one. sub-200. each ones a step function. >> charlie: real mass comes below 200? >> correct. >> charlie: sprint specifically, you first. you've been in the business a long time. >> don't remind me how old i am. >> charlie: been c.e.o. for how many years now, of sprint?

>> a little over year and half. >> charlie: there the this great story about you. in which you wand to go to work at at&t. yet at&t were only hiring people from harvard. your sister lived near harvard? >> yes. she lived in boston. >> charlie: she went to see what kind of internship offers they made on the bulletin boards or whatever they did. at harvard because that's where their audience was. >> at the time, i just wanted really good summer internship on my resume. >> charlie: you were at what point in your academic career? >> first year out of -- after my first year of business school, i went to business school my mba right out of under grad i had no significant work experience. my resume was raking leaves, cutting lawns. those kinds of things. i wanted to have a marquee name on my resume before i went out in to the job world. >> charlie: be great to say

at&t internship. >> correct. i was at cornell. my sister figured, a lot of the top schools, summer internships are tougher to get, particularly back then but i think still are than full-time job. there aren't nearly as many. she went over to -- i talked to her about going over to harvard she said, okay, i'll go over there. she went and just started taking down all the information on summer internships that they were advertising there. she got me a copy of the application. i sent it to the recruiter at at&t. he goes, this kid is at cornell. what the heck?&wt's the story h? he was just curious. he picked up the phone and called me and he asked me about it. i said, yeah, i asked my sister tg over to harvard she got this thing. he says, i want to meet you. the plane ticket the next day -- >> charlie: not a plane ticket come on down for interview. >> at the end of the day they

offered me a job that was for summer internship. >> charlie: you stayed after? >> i bent back to my second year of business school. they gave me job offer actually at the end of the summer. i interviewed what have you, at the end of the -- end of my interviews at the end two of years i decided to go back. >> charlie: what was it about telecom that interested you? >> a combination. i felt telecom industry was going to change. and change significantly. the industry structure -- >> charlie: good instinct. >> the other was, at&t. it was a great company, extremely innovative. people forget it was generating with or three patents a day. they were really, been a company that was changing trying to become much more marketing oriented. i felt i could make a difference. because they were going through this, mci and sprint and what have you had already hit the scene they were just beginning to see competition. they were going after these high powered mbas i felt i could make a difference. the other thing at&t itself had the went of the summer i'd

like, my undergraduate was international studied. i'd like a job working international department. they said we don't put new people there. i said, i'd like to be in the international department. highway first job they came back said, okay, you're in the international department. my mba in finance you're going to negotiate normal deals with european telephone companies. it fit nicely. a combination that got me there. >> charlie: then began running division of at&t? >> it took me awhile. i was there 23 years. back when i was about 37, i was sent overseas to be the c.e.o. of joint venture company was d at&t equipment division. we crewed to have lucent used to be western electric. which was network systems. at&t used to be this huge massive company. then after that i ran internet division then c.e.o. at at&t wireless which what i did last three years.

then i left in 2000. >> charlie: you go to sprint. a company that was considered one of the three great wireless companies. verizon, at&t and sprint. >> yes. >> charlie: verizon has the most number of customers, yes? >> at&t verizon go neck and neck. >> charlie: about 90 million. >> about 80 million. >> charlie: where is sprint? >> 49. >> charlie: what was happening to sprint? why was it losing customers? >> back in '06 and '07 the brand took hits because some of customer service experiences that the company let happen. the brand really got hit, what i've been focusing on, you mentioned at the beginning is build that brand back. the number one thing to really fix the customer experience. i'm very proud of the fact that for 18 months in a row now, it takes a lot of work to do it each month, our customer satisfaction scores have gone up. in 2008 we were the only

national carrier that actually had less churn, fewer of our customers left us than in previous year. what's misunderstood people say, you're losing customers. it's not that we're losing -- we've done a lot better job of keeping the customers we have. we've made most improvement, as a matter of fact in the industry in that. but what's been happening steadily since the merger with nextel back in 2005, is that we haven't been bringing in new customers. we're bring ink fewer new ones than are leaving our net subscriber number is declining. >> charlie: merger with nextel was a bad idea? >> in 20/20 hindsight, yeah. it was. yes. in that the nextel network is great. great for applications. great people. but the synergy, if you will, that people believed were there didn't materialize. so the premium that sprint paid for nextel was too much. the other thing is, this is what you learn in business school,

merger of equals. isn't a good thing. because in this case we had two headquarters, operating headquarters where a lot of people doing day-to-day in kansas city. the management team was 50-50, the board was 50-50. let's take sprint name, brand name let's use nextel colors, yellow and black. a lot of that. >> charlie: often you have different cultures, too. >> very different. one of the first things that i embarqed on when i got to sprint going to one headquarters one team, one culture. >> charlie: give me the game plan. you take a company, this is almost a business school lesson. like sprint. which is number three. you want -- what's the goal? what's the ambition? first you got to fix the problems. which is you got brand identity, which is customer satisfaction, which street deciding on who your team s. all those kinds of human resource questions. once you got that in place, how do you win? >> i think the economy is, i think what's old get see quote,

you're not that fast how come you're always at the puck. i skate to where the puck is going. the puck is going in two spots. one is data. and when we say data in wireless we mean everything except voice. it's text or tv or surfing, anything that's non-voice is data. broad definition of data which is 3g and 4g. see our -- we've worked hard, network awards for fastest and dependable when you get to data or 3g that's where we claim most tendible and first 4g. we're skating to leadership to be the first in 4g to be the first in data. the other area that's growing, almost like bar bell. use sprint brand around that. we have nextel brand around productivity. the other big area where the puck is going, is prepaid. there's post paid, which i described earlier which is big discount on the phone send it to you. the other is prepaid which is, i don't get a discount on the phone, i actually buy month in advance or buy so many minutes,

i don't get a bill. i always pay in advance. it's prepaid. that's generally -- >> charlie: why is that more attractive? >> no contract. also people don't have credit rating -- post paid, we are the bank. we're selling you $600 device for $200 your credit rating matters. if you have no credit rating or poor credit rating or say, i would just rather that have -- not have hassle of a contract i go prepaid. with the economic downturn, and prepaid offers getting lot more successful or aggressive. in our case, our prepaid brand is boost. >> charlie: it's a much bigger in europe than -- >> it is. that's why i think even more potential as i look at the u.s. market. you look at rest of world you see where customers are going. their preference, one of the, i think maybe one of the benefits of the economic downturn people more interested in paying cash and taking let credit and having less of a commitment. our boost brand, which sprint

owns this past quarter had $777,000 net ads that any prepaid carrier had. we just announced acquisition of virgin mobile we're doubling down on prepaid. really data and prepaid are areas that we want to take disproportionate share. way we think we'll get to growth. >> charlie: do you think that the future with using although devices having the wi-fi connect. rather than everything everything in one device. because you think that there's some short coming in having everything in one device? correct? >> think it's both. i think that both are driving growth. you'll have smarter and smarter devices, the smart phones, you are exactly right. smartphones are the growth engine of this business in the industry right now. as a matter of fact for sprint we call -- depends which study you look at. what's classified as smart phone versus a touch phone, touch screen versus a qwrty those those all together that's two-thirds are in that category

today from -- >> charlie: is there a judgment on touch phone as to whether touch phone is the preferred model today? >> well, i mean -- >> charlie: think iphone. >> from industry point of view, that's where the battle is. that's where the growth is. the downside to the carriers, that's where the big subsidies are. it's expensive for us, those are the most expensive phones for us to sell. those are the ones where question need to make sure that the customer stays with us doesn't churn. because we're out a lot of money when somebody takes smart phone because those are expensive devices. smartphones will get smarter and better and faster. i'm already looking at 4g versions of smartphones. so that will continue to get better. but i think the a-ha that has been almost the guy already track, is that they have been, a swiss army knife with more things on them. this notion of having this hockey puck and the specialized devices also being able to take them having it all on one account. not having to have each one

connected. depending which i'm doing i can take which one with me. >> charlie: ease of access and simplicity. >> yes. >> charlie: is a driving motivation. for consumers. >> yes.charlie: if you can make it simpler, if you can put it one plan, one bill, one way to use it, more likely to get customer. >> it's more than that. customer will pay premium for sim police fee. simplicity is everything. you mention iphone. the thing that steve jobs did with the ipod he just made it really simple when it took off. digital one rate. which we launched back in at&t that was all about simplicity used to be, if i was making local call in myon it was this, local call traveling, itfuls all these different rates. simple, took off, people paid more, it wasn't comprise cut. ready now which we offer in our stores now which is the smart phone so complex, we'll do one on one with you. we think that will bring goodwill.

we just announced any mobile any time don't have to think abut i'm i'm calling you, are you on verizon? it's all about simplicity. i couldn't agree more. it's making these complex devices, these swiss army knives really simple. teaching people how to use them. and rate plans that i don't have to worry about meter running i get the same bill. that drives calls down to customer care. that's big cost in our industry is our calls to care. when i talked about improving customer service, part of it was to keep customers. big piece was to take our costs down. we've closed 19 call centers in the last 12 months. and we're answering the phonates faster than we did a year ago. because we're removing the reasons for customers to call. one of the big ones is, what's this extra charge for this text message or whatever. we try to include that. >> charlie: thing you announced is any what? >> any mobile any time. basically what it means, in this industry probably all these calling circles. verizon customer, it's not extra charge i'm not billed for it on verizon or if you're a my favs i

can call these five numbers unlimited. this just says, call any mobile knock yourself auto out f. you're on any of our -- anything data plans unlimited text and data machines which start at $70 a no. you are calling any mobile whether you're calling at&t, t-mobile don't worry. >> charlie: palmpre. how does one go about saying i'm going to challenge the iphone. i'm going to take it on. as well as blackberry. >> it was a palm's decision to take on apple. palm has had long standing relationship with sprint. when i saw phone early as did our guys we said, this is a great device. we're going to put a lot of weight -- >> charlie: do you win oroe der loses? >> it has i am pact but it doesn't determine whether we win or lose. very important. if you look at almost any sprint ad if there's phone in it it's the palm pre our exclusive phone, our flagship phone. >> charlie: is it making a dent in to the iphone market? >> it's doing well.

but you've got to almost put iphone to be separate category. apple brand has done so well. like comparing someone to michael jordan. >> charlie: when you think of all. this this open debate. >> every chrome which is more geared to open system. are we looking -- are we looking at operating systems which instar net will play increasingly? the pivotal role? >> absolutely. that's really what 4g is going to be all about. voice just becomes application. what we did about a year ago is we opened all of our phones to what's called full html browsing. there's no more -- go anywhere you want on our phones. i have windows mobile download skype on the phone. knock yourself out, go for it. we're as open as can be. also helps attract developers because if they develop

application for internet you want to make very easy for them to port it over to your phone. not have to go through lot of extra work. open is in our best interests. also number three -- >> charlie: also more gives potential -- our best interest, too, the duster. >> absolutely.charlie: all the applications might take place because of that. >> yes. >> charlie: finally, this you use this example, too, all of this excites me. use campbell of sales tax of a guy can be sitting -- more business, he can be sitting at some town where he's making a sales pitch. he knows that he needs a video from somewhere else. that he didn't bring with him. he doesn't have to call the office say, it will be here tomorrow. he can call back it will be sent wirelessly to his phone or his device. >> yes. >> charlie: instantly, he can say look, i want to show you this demonstration that we have which i didn't realize would come up but here it is. >> and business productivity that's coming from wireless, it's helping u.s.

competitiveness is pretty substantial. but with that, when -- that's why broadband matters because you're talking about a power point presentation, text i used it in was in 4g, if i was in 2g or 3g waiting along time. been f they had lot of graphics, power point, 4g, you can actually do than another fly. >> charlie: are we up to seed with the rest of the world in terms of speed and broadband? >> 1g we were number one. with 2g advantage europe which is -- with 3g advantage asia. 4g, u.s. back in the driver's seat. >> charlie: do people in europe and asia agree with that? >> i think they would. we're going to have the first large major 4g network in the world here. >> charlie: give -- lay ground work finally for where the great -- wherever the great questions with respect to telecom. what are the -- where is the battle going to be joined? in terms much the future and in terms of companies and products.

>> well, i think wireless has such an opportunity for growth going forward. one of the issues, i think obama administration is focusing on the wireless industry. which has its pluses and minuses. in terms of first of all they realize it's importance to the country. it's importance to the nation. productivity, the number of jobs that are created, what have you. the downside, if you're a business guy you don't want extra regulations, either. from a structural perspective they have questions. you have this robust wireless industry. in the u.s., you have at&t and verizon who are not only by far largest wireless companies, but they're still vertically integrated. talked about at&t the old local monopoly. they still have those in those old territories. and so if we're sprint or t-mobile we want to connect our wireless network in those areas, it's really, really expensive. they charge us a lot.

the land line monopoly division which is a competitive impediment to growing the industry further. there's some regulatory issues. i think there's some other concerns in the industry and regulation around early termination fees. why can't we let customers break their contracts. if you take those away and phone prices will go up, i believe innovation will come down. this adoption, this rapid adoption of new devices and new phones because people buy them because they're very affordable it's because they're subsidized. if you were going to stay with the same carrier for a year or two you'll get a better deal. than if you pay the full price for a phone have the flexibility of leaving. i think the other kind of areas that are going to grow in wireless, is just at very high leaflet think about it, long distance networks and telecom industry are going to be wired and continue to be that.

what we call middle distance, the city is going to be mobile. what we think of as -- what we're talking about our business. then also see the home or premise become increasingly wireless and see the american are of those industry. that's the notion of wi-fi and wi-fi routers, your car will have a wireless chip because it's going to be not only for entertainment but monitoring. healthcare you'll have wireless pills you take that measure what chemicals you have in your stomach or wireless chips in your clothes that measure your heartbeat. >> charlie: this is within the next ten years or fivez. >> probably five. machine to machine. kindle is aneme. your appliances will send information to your server to tell you whether it needs repair or what is in the refrigerator. the areas of growth and what it will mean in terms of cross industry almost going to -- hard

to fathom. >> charlie: it's the most exciting time in the history of telecom but of digital technology. >> i think so. i've bin the industry a long time. and the generations, the speed with which we're going from 3g to 4g, we've been behind the law. now all of a sudden we're moving at the speed we're hitting that inflection point. not only wireless devices ubiquitous in the world what i was describing earlier not just the phone. almost everything is going to be connected wirelessly. so -- >> charlie: only apply to micro prosers? >> traditionally. in the tech industry it's a term thrown around. actually applies to a lot like fiber optics they really developed at the speed of morse's law as to terms of how much capacity in a fiber. it was doubling every 18 months. the biggest impediment to mobile growth is you got processors a lot faster, screens are getting sharper, they use more and more power and battery technology is

not moving very fast. lithium ion batteries hit the market in '97 not a lot better. incrementally better but mobile depends upon batteries. even these here devices i've been describing have to be powered. that's the one breakthrough that the industry needs. it needs battery breakthroughs? >> charlie: where might it come from? >> i don't know. solar we hope. renewable energy sources. >> charlie: that's true about cars and everything else. >> yeah. i don't know. >> charlie: thank you for coming. >> charlie, thank you for having me. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org