tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. is the rancor over the health- care debate just about health care, or are there deeper and more complex issues at work? that is one of the questions pollster frank luntz sought an answer to in conversations with over 6000 people for his new book, what americans really want, really." also emmy-winning writer and

comedian louis c.k. pollster of frank luntz and comedian louis c.k., coming up right now. >> there are so many things that wal-mart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly, we're helping build stronger communities and relationships. with your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley." tavis and nationwide, working together to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television]

tavis: frank luntz is a veteran communications consultant, pollster, and best selling author who serves as ceo of the word doctors. his latest book is called "what americans really want, really." let me start with the obvious question, which is, do aericans know what they really want? i could spend half an hour debating you we did not really know what we want, but i digress. >> we know what we want. the problem is we are hypocrites. we want things that are competing against each other. we want government services, but not the taxes. we want to right to choose everything from health care to automobiles, but we want someone else to help us make those choices. we are a conundrum of the population that has so many internal conflicts. that is one of the reasons we are so frustrated. we want somebody things and we cannot get at all.

tavis: based on what? >> a lot of it is based on government. there really is hostility toward washington right now, toward wall street. i am sure some of them watched the show, people who make millions of dollars at the same time they are laying off thousands of workers. there is hostility toward hollywood and culture. we feel like we're losing control. the reason why our approach this is because i wanted to set the -- the reason why i wrote this is because i want to set the record straight where we stand in 2009 so others cannot interpret it. there is not an angry mob out there. they are angry, and sometimes it boils over, but 72% of americans are "mad as hell and i'm not going to take it anymore." we have never had that degree of anger and more. tavis: how can 72% of americans be mad when they overwhelmingly elected a guy who they were happy about. >> because he was running on a platform of change.

he ran a very good campaign and very articulate. when he speaks, we listen. up to a point. he has been speaking an awful lot recently. each time he speaks, it is almost like penicillin. and has a smaller impact. and what he is proposing we now know about. while we want change and we still want reform, we do not necessarily want washington to be as big as he is proposing. the health care plan, we all agree health care needs to be reformed and fixed, but we do not all agree on having washington take a bigger role. we all agree that people need to save their jobs. we do not necessarily agree that we should be spending billions of dollars on some of america's biggest corporations. the hardworking, average middle american says, my god, what does this mean for my kids? only 33% of americans believe that their children will have a better quality of life than them when they get to be their rage. tavis: a moment ago, when he

kept referring to "we," as i listened to the points that you are making, and it varies, i am not so sure i and a stand to that is. some of us "we" are upset about things that the other of us are not about. there is no universal "we." >> what happens is the so-called silent majority is no longer silent, and it certainly is a majority. in this survey, 6400 people. the average survey is 1000. in the last 15 years, i have interviewed more than a million people through telephone and e- mail. i have a good idea what the public thinks. on many issues, it cuts across age, gender, income, ethnicity, everything. there's a fear for the feature that exists within every community. people are afraid that the children will not have as good as them and that their country

will not be as good at it tomorrow. is making all americans angry. the purpose of the book is two. those things out so that we can stop complaining about conditions we are and -- the purpose of the book is two. those things out so that would stop complaining about these conditions and solve them. tavis: what do you make of how that anger has played out in the past few months, these town hall meetings, etc.? what you make of that anger? >> a couple of things, it is not partisan. some of the significant percentage of people do not like republicans are even angry at them because they expected more from the gop. the second point, it is happening all across the country, every state and region. it is not just the northeast or the south or the pacific. that is everywhere. third, some people get carried away, but that is because they do not have an outlet or avenue

to bring about change. we have seen it in so many different communities, when people cannot make a difference, a resort to either language or tactics that is anti civil and social. -- and the civil and anti- social. the purpose is to keep it on the civil plane so that we can at least talk to each other. you and i have had some great conversations, and we probably disagree more than we agree, but there is always shaking of hands when we leave, there is always -- tavis: we will see, you have not left yet. i am not a pacifist. although i believe in nonviolence. >> we keep the dialogue back- and-forth. the problem we are having, we have all these politicians who are canceling town hall meetings because they say did it -- they did not want to get yelled at. how does a constituent hold their elected official

accountable if not for the town hall meeting? how do we told wall street accountable if not for these open shareholder meetings? i think this is a good sign for democracy that for the first time the participating in more than just an election. they're coming out and sang, i like this, i did not like this. i think it is great. i just think -- i just wish more people were listening. tavis: i agree with the latter point. i would challenge you on the former part. we can agree to disagree, but the community that i come from, the african-american community, we were decimated by the eight years of ronald reagan. the same thing could be said about eight years of george bush. just making an argument. the point is we have lived through time when people have small and angry. tell me a time when you believe in your lifetime and mine, not that far apart in age, politically where the anti- shuttle -- anti-social and anti-

civic behavior has become as ugly as it has against this particular president. was it that bad against bush or reagan? i cannot recall black folks going around with guns strapped to their waist when reagan was president. we -- have we seen this before? tell me where. >> we have seen this before. one of my great political heroes of all time was bobby kennedy, and i believe he was a victim of this. one of my great political heroes of all time was martin luther king jr., and he was a victim of this. we have seen this kind of violence and destruction, far greater that right now. just go back to 1968. what you have to do is ask your parents what it was like when the city's burned to the ground. cleveland never came back. new jersey still, with all due respect, you can still find buildings that are destroyed. the bronx in new york, places

right here in l.a., within a mile or two of the studio, destroyed by anger, violence, viciousness. did not tell me this is the worst. back then, people were being killed for their political beliefs. at least we have some sense of civility. i'm afraid that we're going to lose it. please, i do not want 1960 and again. i think that was the worst year of all in american history. -- i do not want 1968 again. tavis: my question specifically was about this kind of push backed at a sitting president. >> it is not obama. tavis: he is the president. >> by the way, i would point out to you, what obama said about the research we do, it leads to it is not about barack obama, it is about washington. barack obama has come to represent washington. jimmy carter has been wrong about a lot of things. he has been a good ex-president,

but he does not understand the american people. we're not angry at barack obama. we are angry at congress. we are angry at the institution of the white house. we are angry at washington, d.c. tavis: i am not on the obama payroll, but you cannot sit here and tell me that we are not yet -- back to this "we," all of us are not angry with barack obama. you cannot tell me there is a significant slice of the american public, given the rhetoric and language, he contradicted yourself. given the instability of their language, he is being called names. he is being threatened. the secret service budget is up for to% to protect this guy. they are mad at him. -- the secret service budget is up40 40 0% to protect this guy. >> if you dismiss it, you like the other elite american into our losing control.

these are real fears. i wrote this book because i did not want people in washington, d.c., and new york to describe the flavor states with such disdain. i wrote this because average americans are frustrated and upset because they think they played by the rules, they paid their mortgage, they worked 20, 30 years, and they're losing their jobs and they cannot pay for their house. tavis: you are missing my point. is not either or, it is both and. and i disagree, jimmy carter was not wrong, he was right. racism and this problem is still real. >> we cannot disagree with that? tavis: jimmy carter to not say that. a stop bastardizing what he said. he just said this is an element of this. racism is real in this country. pimm he is blaming racism when it is -- >> he is blaming racism when it is people post as

policy, not because of his skin color. as barack obama himself said, he was black before the election, he is black now, nothing has changed. they were willing to vote for him before because they did not know what his policies were. he has changed some of his policies, and you know that, too. he has changed his policy on afghanistan and health care. tavis: i am not arguing that obama has shifted. i have been counting -- i have been talking about accountability. >> the number one valued american people want is accountability, second is respect. what they feel by politicians who are voting on things and do not have a chance to have an impact on is there not being respected. tavis: did not think that we can put our head in the sand -- i do not think that we could put our head in the sand about racism. racism is real and people have a right legitimately to be upset if he has moved from where he was in the campaign.

>> there always be examples of people with racist tendencies, anti-semitism, gender-based politics. we are different people. the question is, what is the genesis, what is the core of the issue? i think the elite of america has to understand that those who do not believe in losing control desperately want something better for their children. they have the right to be heard, and they are not an angry mob. tavis: we will shake hands. it week disagree, but i still love ya. -- we disagree, but i still love you. frank, could have you. what next, emmy-winning writer and comedian louis c.k. stay with us. louis c.k. is a very funny comedian, producer, and writer whose products include chris

rock. his latest film is "the invention of lying." >> i loathe it almost every minute that i worked for you. >> i always hated you. >> i did not know that. >> a lot of people knew that. >> how much are you going to be withdrawing today, sir? >> $800. and it says here you only have three to dulles. but our system a mistake. -- it says here that you only have $300. but our system made a mistake. >> i am black. >> i knew it. >> i am an eskimo. tavis: tell me about "the invention of lying." >> the movie was directed by ricky gervais.

it is about an alternate universe where nobody has ever told a lie. and has never occurred to anybody to do it. so this guy gets the power to live. because no one has ever done it, everything he says is taken as pure gospel. it is a well done premise. tavis: imagine that, a world without lying. what do you make of what the world would be like? >> there would not be any pretense. there would not be politeness. there would not be imagination. people did not tell stories. people did not make up stories. the way they depicted in the film, it is drab and people just work and get money and then you die. so that is what it would be like. tavis: the wonderful creativity because lying is an option. >> i have tried to do away with lying in my life the last few years.

tavis: how was that working for you? >> it is really difficult. but in the end, if he can seize it as a rule, it gets better. it all the moments were used to lie, he tell the truth, you find something on the other side that is exciting. tavis: since you have been there, what is on the other side? >> well, loneliness, poverty. itnono, there is a release. as mark twain used to say it -- just give everything to mark twain -- if you tell the truth, you cannot have to remember anything. it's simplifies life. tavis: i think that is a noble effort, but on the occasions when you find yourself line, what are you lying about? >> when i was younger, i'd like all the time. once you understand the power of lying, it is like magic. you transform reality.

if he did something wrong and somebody says, did you do that, you say, nope, and she did not do it. the spend a lot of time and energy maintaining that universe and it is hard. i had recently -- at a friend recently said, it did i do something to offend you? i was tempted to lie and say, no, of course not. and then continue are false friendship. instead, said, yes, you alienate me every time i talk to you, you do not treat me like an equal, and i hate being around you. i just said it. he was stunned, but we worked it out and we are closer now. it i think in the end, the truth is always better. it is harder, but it is better. tavis: can we handle being told the truth more often? could we handle it? your friend was stunned. everybody talks about the virtue of being a truth teller. but i wonder if what actually handle the truth?

>> i think we could if we did it all the time. as a virtue, i am not sure. the truth is ugly. most of the time. i think we could if it was a habit. sometimes you try to pick the truth. that is what you can do. i have two kids, my oldest is seven. she recently said to me, her friends grandparents got pointed at in europe. that is all she was told. i said, oh. i said, is that true -- she said, is that true, our people put in ovens? i kind of wanted to say, no, it did not happen. i also wanted to tell her, sure, that was hitler in the 1940's. it all these millions of people were killed. but now we just blow them up and it is not even on television because we're watching "survivor."

but it picked a truth i could say, which is, i don't know if i should tell you that right now. instead of making something out, you promise somebody, i need to hide the truth for you a couple of years. she said, ok. tavis: i hear the point. that may work better with kids and adults. am i don't know. if you ask somebody direct questions with high stakes and the city, i did not want to tell you. you are not ready to know. tavis: i want to know. >> me, too. i love the truth. i wish i could know everything i ever. that would be my wish. that is what i hope heaven is, that they tell you who shot jfk. tavis: the truth about everything. >> when did you know that you are funny? when did you know that you are going to make a living out of being funny and a standup?

>> funny was from when i was a kid i think. i was not popular, but i could. the class and the laughter. i did that a few times when i was little. i think the first time i ever got a laugh was in the third grade. the teacher was showing us different parts of the skull. the skull has three bones in it, i forget the mall. he named the first to bonds, he said does anybody know the name of the ofbone, and i said the noggin. i did not know that you could make a living at it, but it was an addiction. nothing else worked out. tavis: i'm sure that i read this summer, i think this is true, and this is not your first language? >> that is right, spanish. tavis: how? i don't mean how. i know how. >> i am curious what makes that so surprising.

tavis: i guess it is the way so many of us got introduced to you to immediately. i just never thought of it. >> my dad is mexican, so i am mexican. i am half mexican. it has been an interesting part of my life experience. my dad was mexican and moved here. he came here to go to summer school and met my mother, who was american. but anyway, we lived there a lot of years. i was born here, but we live there from what i was a baby until about seven years old. that is where i have my grandmother and my whole family. because of the way i looked, i am not paid is mexican, which is interesting because i am more mexican than a lot of people who are known as mexicans. there is a comedian, carlos mencia, who is very famous for being hispanic. he is pondering, german, lives in california.

-- he is from honduras, german, lives in california. i am half mexican, i lived there. i have a passport there. tavis: 80 that is why it did not connect. -- maybe that is why it did not connect. >> i have a stand, mexico is like here in terms of racial makeup. there are a lot of white mexicans. mexico is a land of immigrants, like here, but they have more brown people because they did not slaughter the indians like we did. they did not do as thorough a job of genocide. so the face of the mexican is more often brown. also, people experience mexicans as "that brown guy who comes over and works in my house." they do not realize they are surrounded by millions of light mexican, and also mexicans to stay in mexico because they're having a great time. tavis: all the stores, we're

surrounded by louis c.k. my cousins all look like me, but they did not speak english. tavis: how did louis c.k. become your monitor? >> my grandfather's name was c.k., but it is a mess. that sounds like c.k., so i just cut it down. tavis: thank you for that. i love "pootie tang." it is a classic. what do you make of that now looking back on it? >> it is funny, i did not know we were making something -- people love that guy. there's something about the character. and i love pootie tang. i do not think about him as much as i used to. the study made it hard to make.

i did not expect somebody people to like it. to me, that is my favorite way of been popular, this underground thing that most people do not know about, and you do it with great passion. i am happy it is out there. tavis: i knew you, we met before, but sitting and talking, i learned more about you than i ever knew, about a background, or the name comes from. i feel like we're friends. >> we are friends. nice meeting you. tavis: glad to have it on the program. that is our show for tonight. catch me on public radio international. i will see you back here next time on pbs. until then, the night from l.a., and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley on pbs.org. tavis: hi, i am tavis smiley.

join me next time with acclaimed filmmaker ken burns with his acclaimed documentary on the national parks system. that is next time. we will see you then. >> there are so many things that wal-mart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly, we're helping build stronger communities and relationships. because with your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley." tavis and nationwide, working together to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--