>> rose: welcome to the broadcast. tonight morgan freeman. >> he has a most commanding presence without being lordly. he doesn't walk into a room as nelson mandela. he walks into a room as nelson. he's... he doesn't take the room, the room gives itself. it's the quality he's always had i think. >> rose: morgan freeman for the hour. next. ♪

if you've had a coke in the last 20 years, ( screams ) you've had a hand in giving college scholarships... most promising students. ♪ ( coca-cola 5-note mnemonic ) captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york this is charlie rose. >> rose: morgan freeman is here. in 1994, nelson mandela was asked who should play him in the movie of his life. his answer: morgan freeman.

15 years later, freeman has just done that. he stars as the south african leader in the new film "invictus." it's a story of mandela's effort to unite his country using perhaps its most divisive symbol-- the spring box rugby team. here's the trailer for the film. >> i think whatever gods may be for my uncomparable soul. i am the master of my fate. i am the captain of my soul. >> today president mandela takes office in pretoria. balancing black aspirations with white fears. >> remember this this day, boys. this is a day our country went to the dogs. >> brothers and sisters, this is the time to build our nation. all of the whites are cheering for south africa.

all of the blacks are cheering for eng lann. how long before the world cup? >> don't get your hopes up. we're as damned as christ. >> i've been inved to tea. >> with who? >> the president. >> how do we inspire ourselves to greatness where nothing less whether l do? how do we inspire everyone around us >> what did he want? >> i think he wants us to win the world cup. >> rugby is a political calculation. >> it is a human calculation. according to the experts, we'll goo the quarter finals and no further. >> according to the experts, you and i should still be in jail. >> times change and we need change as well.

we've become more than just a rugby team. >> this is it! this is our destiny! >> i was thinking about how you spent 30 years in a tiny cell and came out ready to forgive the people who put you here. >> i am the master of my fate. i am the captain of my soul. >> rose: i am pleased to have morgan freeman. so it was always those who love politics and love you, that there was no one, it was a foregone conclusion that you were mandela. >> well, you know, after he said that yeah, i... how could it go

otherwise? >>ose: no other way. >> and, you know, it's a big honor. right, okay, fine. >> rose: i don't know of anybody who has more respect than he does over a wider range of people in the world. >> no, they can't... couldn't be. he's earned it with his life, you know? from the time he stood up in court and said that a democratic world whauz he lived for and was willing to die for and had his sentence reduced from death to life. he's been our hero. rose: and even a hero to his jailers. >> oh, yeah. yeah. because he learned or new that kindness was the most potent weapon at his disposal. and he used it. he coerced them with kindness.

>> and have veng would be too counterproductive and destructive? >> it would have destroyed the country. it would have gone up in flames. it would have been the congo. it would have been... what was that country rwanda was in? >> rose: so when he first mentioned that you should play him, were you in his presence at that time? >> no, i wasn't. but i was in south africa at the time. >> rose: and when did you first meet him? >> i met him after... right after he left the presidency. the film producer who made the movie arranged it? >> rose: he didn't make this one. he had the rights to long walk of freedom. that's right. >> so he was orchestrating al of my meetings with med diva.

>> rose: that's what mandela is called? >> and erybody in south africa calls him that and everybody who knows him well calls him that. so so i'm sorry. so i said i needed to get to him and he organized a meeting. i said "i need to get close to you and hold your hand. and he said to call. and so i saw him all around the world and we would sit and talk or i'd just watch him. and learn him. >> rose: what did you see? >> the basic thing that you need in order to play a living human being, i think, is what goes on inside, how much energy is needed to be that person. and with mandela, it's a very low energy ebb. he's very quiet.

inside he's quiet. i learned that. that's the main drive. >> rose: you have to learn patience in part if you're him. >> yeah. >> rose: and control. because you're in prison for 20 something years. >> 27 all told. 27 years. >> rose: but were you looking for a handle or does morgan freeman need a handle to get inside of him the way he walks, the way he stands, the way he breathes, the way he uses his eyes? >> well, i don't know if all of that is or is not a handle, but, yes, you need to watch for the nuances. you know? for instance if i was going to play you it would be just the most aquiet type of performance. because you have quiet eyes.

you know that, don't you? >> rose: yes. (laughs) yes, i do. that's the way you were. >> i wish it was otherwise but it's sometimes been called sleepy eyes. >> rose: >> no, they're not sleepy. you're totally alive. it's quiet. >> rose: (laughs) that's true. so what did you see, though? i mean, tell me about this man when you're up close and you have your eyes to observe him? what about character and... >> i don't know. >> rose: passion. >> i've been asked and asked and asked how... what do you use? what do you see when you look at him? and i don't see much. i feel it all. i can sit and hold his hand. and i mean he's not really a hand holder. but he's african so they can do that without the overlay, you know? and i explained to him why that was important to me.

and he allows it. so it's not... i really have trouble explaining it because i think it's sort of like intellectualizing what i do and i can't. >> rose: no, i understand. i'm not asking you to do that. >> i know you're not. >> rose: but there is some... if you say nelson mandela and ask somebody "choose a word." they would say dignity. >> gravitas. >> rose: gravitas. >> gravitas, yes. first order. he is that. and he's commanding. he has a most commanding presence without being lordly. he doesn't walk into a room as nelson mandela. he walks into a room as madiba, as nelson. he's... he doesn't take the

room, the room gives itself. it's a quality he's always had, i think. when he first got into robin island and they issued short pants to everybody except to kathy... it was ahmed kasada, the one indian among him, kathy rejected his long pants and madiba said "no, no, no, put them on. we're all going to have long pants." and then he said to himself "they're going to call me mister how did he do that? so he hears that a guard's child is sick. the guard comes to work and he says "good morning, how is your baby? is she all right today?" things like that. >> rose: you know-- and you've even been quoted as saying

this-- i understand why they want morgan freeman. i know what morgan freeman has done, i know what he can do and therefore i know why they want morgan freeman. nelson mandela understands who he is. >> yes. >> rose: he understands what it means to be nelson mandela. >> yes. yes. it is for him a... was, because i've got something to tell you. it was for him a big obligation. it was the obligation of his life. you know, he doesn't feel like the big success that we all hold him up as. he thinks of himself personally deep inside as a failure. because of his family life. he couldn't do both. >> rose: south africa became his family. >> yeah. and so his obligations to his

village, to whinney, to his son, that weighs on him today and it infuses his being with a sadss >> rose: he wasn't the father he would like to have been. >> that he feels he should have been. >> rose: should have been. and you? >> pretty much the same. >> rose: same thing? >> yeah. >> rose: because you wanted to be what? >> i wanted to be an actor. >> rose: but you wanted to be good. you wanted to be not just an actor. >> well, if i could one, i was going to be a good one. >> rose: you were going to be good, yeah. roll tape. here it is. >> i've got a grandson who is born in september. i asked him what do you want me to buy for you?

he said i want a motorcar. i said let's go to the shops. we got out of the car, he was holding my hand, my left hand, and we went out of the shop which sells motorcars. but as we walked in, if they shook my hand now he left with that and came to grab his hand. so i said to him can you hold his handd? he said no, he held his hand. because he saw me greetingther people with this hand. i stopped being his grandfather i was now a grandfather of so many people he did not know. he was so upset that even when we entered the shop, the vehicle with motors he was no longer

interested. that is the type of of it. a grandfather who is a grandfather not of my grandchild but other people around. it's a very painful experience. but nevertheless we have to commit ourselves completely to the organization and to try to hope that your children and grandchildren will understand. >> rose: and your response? >> yeah. >> rose: yeah? >> that's exactly what you were talking about? >> exactly. it's that hope that someday you'll be forgiven, they'll understand. >> rose: and you feel the same way? >> yeah. >> rose: but would you make the

me decision if you had it to do over? >> absolutely. >> rose: i would, too. yeah. because you would never have been happy if you had not discovered what you were made out of? >> yeah, exactly. >> rose: me, too. in a different way than you or nelson mandela. i never understood-- because it's such a powerful life-- why a long walk to freedom hasn't been made into a movie-- or has it? >> no, it hasn't. >> rose: book he wrote. >> and the problem with it is as a movie... the book... there was just entirely too much information. and no one has ever been able to reduce it to an essence because there... i think if you were going to try to do "long walk to freedom" you would do it as a ten-part series. >> rose: exactly. not a bad idea.

>> somebody might think of it that way. >> rose: would you do it as a ten-part series? >> no. >> rose: because? >> i've done it. >> rose: and this offered you the opportunity to find the slice that defined him? >> exactly. exactly. we had just a wonderful story that came together from george carlin who wrote "playing the enemy" and i think that that he and tony peckham, who wrote this script, sort of combined efforts shared information and tony wrote this incredible script. and that's it. we don't need to go any further than that to define mandela as president of south africa. >> rose: so we come out of this knowing what about him? >> i think we come out of it

having some idea of who the man was and how he thought and operated. >> rose: so tell me the story. this story that this film tells. >> when he was elected president the country was smoldering. it was ready to explode. >> rose: they were not prepared to accept him. some of them. >> yeah. >> rose: and they were inside every institution in south africa. >> yes. you had butte lazy over here with the zulus. you had the africans... afrikaners over here, the nationalists and you had the a.n.c., this huge number of angry people ready to take revenge. and all the firepower over here with the africaners.

and the zulus not necessarily wanting to be the controlled by the a.n.c. so these three factions were ready to go at each other's throats. how is he going to... what is he going to do to settle this? to quiet this? to pour water on this smoldering fire? and it's a big challenge for him. huge. and i think he got the idea-- and i don't say this with any certain knowledge-- when it was reported to him that the sports commission were voting to disband the springboks. everything there was about the springboks. >> rose: springboks being the south african rugby team. >> yeah. the symbol of apartheid and its brutality.

and he went and told them "that is a mistake" and explained to them why and had them take the vote again and they changed the vote. now he's got something he can work with. he goes to the u.n., he asks to let them have the springbok... the rugby world cup in south africa and this is a country had been sanctioned for years and they couldn't play any place. they said "okay." he goes back and he said "the world cup is going to be played here." then he says in so many words "and we have to win it." that's why he called on francois pienaar. >> rose: played by matt damon. >> played by matt damon and said "how do we inspire our people to

greatness?" made that wonderful speech about exceeding your own expectations. said we must all exceed our own expectations. and pienaar understood he wants us to win the world cup. and they did. and it was every south african today who was alive on that date in 1995 remembers it like we remember the death of j.f.k. >> rose: because it... >> it was magic. it was a... the country was just... it came together as one. and it never quite separated. this is the thing. this was theost powerful thing about it. it never quite separated. never went back to its old self. they still have problems, of course, you know? but... >> rose: it was a different

country. >> it was a different country. still is. >> rose: and the genius is he understood the possibility. >> yes. that's why he says sports that has power to change the world. >> rose: to reach out. >> yes. >> rose: the poem from william ernest henley. >> yeah. he... that poem was his favorite poem and as he explains to francois pienaar, when he lost courage, when he felt like just giving up just lie down and not get up again he would recite it and it would give limb what he needed to keep going. >> rose: can you recite it? if you can't, there's some words. >> out of the night that covers me black as the pit from pole to pole-- i learned it when i was in school. >> rose: did you really. >> yeah.

i thank whatever gods may be from my unconquerable soul. in the fell clutch of circumstance i have not cried aloud under the bludgeonings of fate my head is bloody but unbowed. beyond this place of wrath and tears looks but the shadow of the shade yet the men nantz of the years finds and shall find me unafraid it matters not how strait the gate how punishment charges the control i am the master of my fate i am the captain of my soul. >> rose: this is a magical moment in the history of this show to hear you do that. >> well, thank you. >> rose: and he had it and he memorized it and it was his anchor. >> yeah. yeah. >> when the winds were at their worst. >> yeah. yeah. and he wrote this poem out and gave it to francois.

and i think it's served the purpose it needed to serve because when francois and the team visited robin island this poem this poem played in francois's head and i think he knew that not only did he have to win but would. >> rose: i want to see some clips and have you talk about them. you already covered some of the area. but first how did you get clint eastwood involved? >> i know that clint is very script orient you can't send him script that needs work. >> rose: (laughs) nor is he interested in improviseing everyday. >> no, no, not at all. not at all. or doing rewrites while he's

trying to shoot. so i had what i thought was a perfect script. and we've had two outings together in which we were quite successful. >> rose: yes, i would say so. >> i thought, okay... >> rose: "million dollar baby" and "unforgiven" if you are short of memory. >> and i thought the perfect director for this would be chrinlt. >> rose: because? you knew what about him? >> his feel for story tellinghi. he's really is. you know, he's... he knows if a story is dragging, if it needs i don't know how to team you what it is. but he is a master storyteller. if you've seen any of the movies

that he's directed, they move along, there's no moment where you want to turn your head or go get popcorn. he's really good at that. >> rose: is that... that's part of his genius. what else? >> well, casting. setups. his set is... he likes to have a set that encourages actors to feel. and it's quiet. and everybody who works with him wants to keep working with him. >> rose: yes. here's a montage of films directed by clint eastwood featuring morgan freeman. take a look. you think that kid really killed five men? >> no. >> you know, when you were

talking back there about the time them deputies had the drop on you and pete... >> yeah. >> well, i remember there was three men you shot, will, not two. >> well, i ain't like that no more, ned. i ain't no crazy killing fool. >> still think it's going to be easy to kill them cowboys? >> we don't drown first. what about you, scrap? what did your manager do? you were a hell of a fighter, a lot better than willie. he gets you a title fight or did he just bust you out banging your head against other people's fist until you lost your eye. >> i went out swinging and no man can say i didn't. >> yeah, well i remember and excuse me if i didn't want my fighter spending the second half of his life cleaning up other people's spit. >> yeah, right. right, you're the smart one. you're the one learning greek.

>> it's gaelic. >> well, you just protected yourself out of a championship fight. how do you say that in gaelic? >> what do i tell the japanese trade delegation? >> i delegate that decision to you. >> you want know inform the v.p.. >> no. >> we should at least include the minister of sport. >> no. >> i strongly advise doing this, especially on your own. it gives the impression of autocratic leadership. you risk alienating your cabinet and your party. >> your advice is duly today ined. >> madiba, the people want this, they hate the springboks, they don't want to be represent represented by a team they cheered against all their lives. >> yes, i know. in this instance the people are wrong and as their elected leader it is my job to show them that. >> you're risking your political capital, you're risking your future as our leader. >> the day i am afraid to do that is the day i am no longer fit to lead. >> rose: let me go back to clint for a second. : yes. >> rose: you think he should

have won best actor for "million dollar baby." >> yeah, yeah, absolutely. >> rose: here's what he said about you at this table. roll tape. do you direct someone like morgan freeman? >> well, we talk about the part a little bit, but what i do... what i do is i just... he'll come up with suggestions and he's got the... >> rose: he's the one eyed person who lost his eye in a fight. >> we talk about little technical things but we don't really... what i do is let actors act until not being done properly. if something's going wrong or the character is going off then i'll start questioning it and i'll start talking about it. but i'm not one to use a lot of energy in conversation. i feel that it unnerve it is actors sometimes and breaks down their confidence. i don't want to do that.

i like to set an atmosphere of which a person can work with the most confidence and they have to have... and i like to have people be confident in their instincts. and a guy like morgan freeman has terrific ininstincts. >> rose: (laughs) i know, don't want to use a lot of extra words, a lot of extra energy. (laughs) >> no, he doesn't. he told one actor one time "why don't you just talk about the start" he said "let's not screw it up by talking about it." >> rose: (laughs) script is important to you. you rely on a script if it's good. >> you need to go do and watch every film on nelson mandela. you already met him. you didn't need to read every book. you didn't need to find... it was there. >> rose: most of it's on the page. there are things about madiba that you want to do to... just

because they sort of establish him for you. and if you watch him sometimes he's talking he'll do something like... do that. "well, you know..." and so you would do that. it galvanizes people who really know him because his daughter said "how do you know to do that?" >> rose: let me hear the voice again. >> (as nelson mandela) when you walk to speak to someone, i think it is important that you speak softly. >> rose: so how did you get? did you have diction coaches and all that kind of stuff? >> no, i had a lot of tapes of him in office greeting people,

talking to his staff. just being. not in front of a big crowd. i had those, too, but the most important ones are when he's just having a conversation or talking to his aids. >> rose: playing a living person. >> yeah. >> rose: harder? >> more challenging. >> rose: challenging? >> uh-huh. i've done it twice. and i've... in a picture called "lean on me" i played... >> rose: a principal. >> a principal. >> rose: in a high school. >> we shot it there at his school. he was there everyday. >> rose: joe clark. >> joe clark. every morning... he's a most amazing man, joe was. i would go find him in the morning and he would go out into the hallways and greet the kids as they were coming in and to see how those kids responded to him, how... what are a positive

image he was in their lives. and he called names... just almost every kid in school. and he was always asking about family and how is your mom and did she get the card i sent and did you do that? just on these kids you know? and he said he never chastised them. he delegated that to someone else. >> rose: he inspired them? >> yeah. but he was the one i learned about holding hands with. because he had high energy level. a lot going on in joe all the time. >> rose: you started on stage here in new york. >> yeah. >> rose: made your first film in the '08s i think, wasn't it? >> well, aually, my first film was 1969 but it was something with jack klugman.

what i remember about it is that they kept rewriting it trying to get more for me to do it in. i was very flattered. >> rose: but you have no desire to go back? >> no, i... listen, as i kid growing all the way up i always wanted to be in the movies and so on stage in new york you do a play, you get good reviews and all your friends say this is going to take you to the coast, this is the one. and it tk forever, it seemed like. >> rose: to your 50s. >> yeah, until i was about 50 years old. >> rose: is that better in some ways? >> oh, yes, it has to be, you know? because that's the way it was. >> rose: exactly. (laughs) that's the only thing you know. you weren't a hot shot like, say warren beatty at 22. >> no. uh-huh. >> rose: but i does give you some ground grounding, too. >> oh, yeah, i think what happened with me was what should

have happened with me, you know? bide your time, do your work and when it happens you'll be ready. >> rose: and thank god for longevity. >> absolutely. >> rose: is there a role you want to play? it used to be banded o that morgan had to play othello before he died. >> well, i did-- and died. >> rose: (laughs) >> rose: puts you in a crowd with everybody else, doesn't it? >> i'm telling you. >> rose: i mean, it's like what it is about that role? >> i don't know. i'm telling you. but it is very, very difficult to play. i didn't... you can't play what you can't believe in, you know? and he's hard to believe in, really. and when i did it, i did it at the civic... for the civic light opera in dalla, texas, at an amphitheatre and i had this costume with the head band on

and harem pants and jacket and i walked out on stage and somebody way in the back said "sing purple haze!" >> rose: (laughs) >> ied that big afro. i looked exactly like jimi hendrix. >> rose: (laughs) that's great! hard to be othello when they want you to be jimi hendrix. (laughs) >> right out the window. >> rose: (laughs) that's great. so there's no other character that... or no other person or no other... there's no mandela? >> there is no mandela but the is... it was a western i always wanted to do and this was another... >> rose: you and i have talked about this but remind me. >> bass reeves was his name. and he was hired by isaac parker who hired... i don't know, 150, 200 deputy marshals because his mandate from the united states government was to clean up the

frontier, which was oklahoma territory, indian territory, all the outlaws were. and he was one of the great is tenty marshals we don't know about. >> rose: why can't we get this movie made? >> can't get a script. can't get a script. hardest thing about making a movie is getting a script. >> rose: that's why you'll see 17 different scripts? >> yeah. >> rose: but why is that so hard? because different people do different aspects of script writing well? some are good at dialogue, some are good at plotting, narrative. some are good at... >> yeah. >> rose:... character. >> it's... most of the time... everybody has sort of a formula for writing and pretty soon when you read enough of them you spot them. i need someone who is clever,

not formulaic. >> rose: but clint loves to direct, he likes to mix it up. >> he's done acting but he says he's having a great time directing. he's always working. but, you know,yeah he used to mix it up. >> rose: are you capable of a poor performance? >> oh, yeah. >> rose: are you really. and you know it? >> yeah. >> rose: why would you have a poor performance? >> when i take a job for money and not know what i'm doing. >> rose: how many times have you done that. >> yeah. once or twice. >> rose: what... >> no, no. >> rose: (laughs) zip it up, morgan. (laughs) there's nothing to be gained. >> rose: nothing to be gained by that. that's the truth. you did it for money but everything else has been done for... >> for love of a good script or a good character.

the. >> rose: and the love of acting. you love doing it, that's why you and i are lucky, you do what you love. >> i really love doing it. i think i was born to do it. and i'm lucky enough to have gotten the chance to live it. actually make a good living doing it. >> rose: it's been erything you wanted? >> everything i wanted, yeah. >> rose: and all those characters from mandela to "unforgiven" to... i had a list of them here. >> go all the way back to the pimp in "street smart." >> rose: all the way back and just go through them. working with jack in "bucket" to... >> "bucket list, yeah. robert redford in "an unfinished life. >> rose: "shawshank redemption." >> tim robbins. >> rose: so you're going to put

only five of them in a special place. >> which ones would it be? >> rose: yes sir. >> all three of the ones with clint. >> rose: "unforgiven," "million dollar baby" ""invictus." ". >> rose: those three out of the five? let's make it ten, then. "glory." >> rose: denzel. >> i'll put "street smart" in because it was such a wonderful character. i really liked playing... and that was the movie that just sort of, like, pumped me, showed me right into hollywood. >> rose: because they said what after seeing that? >> "who is that guy? >> rose: because he compelled them to watch on the screen. >> yeah. yeah. they didn't know me in hollywood. they knew me in new york and i was... it was a big thing for me. and the glory part of that movie

coming out was it came out the same month that we opened "driving miss daisy" on stage. >> rose: i was going to mention that, yeah. where would you put that? that's in the top then? >> yeah, absolutely. >> rose: a pretty good actress, too. >> pretty good actress. both on the stage and... >> rose: who did it on stage? >> dana ivy. wonderful actress. >> rose: and jessica tandy did it... >> jessica did hit in the movies i had a wonderful time. interesting thing about wking with jessica was she wasn't going to come near me in the... we shot in the sequence. and she would hardly speak, you know? and as the movie progressed, our friendship progressed. she did it just the way miss daisy did it. >> rose: and so she was right because it worked for her. >> it worked for her. it workedfor me, too, actually. it didn't take me very long to understand what she was doing. >> rose: could you look at the films of the last ten years and say "let me show you why i'm

getting better and better, what i've learned"? what i've learned is the best question. >> no. >> rose: you don't know what you're doing different today than what you did... >> don't feel like i did anything different today. >> rose: you've got it at a certain page and now you're just simply giving it different voices? >> yeah. yeah. that's my take on it. that's what i think. i've always been pretty good at it. and, of course, it doesn't matter what it is that you do. if you continue to do it, you're going to get better at it. why you're getting better, i'm not quite sure yet. >> rose: i know you can't. >> i know you can identify. >> rose: i want to come back to "invictus." this is a conversation between morgan and matt damon in which i talk about the poem that you read so brilliantly. here it is. >> on rob ben island when things got very bad i found inspiration

in a poem. >> a poem? >> a victorian poem. just words but they helped me to stand when all i wanted to do was to lie down. but you didn't come all this way to hear an old man talk about things that make no sense. >> no, please, mr. president, it makes complete sense to me. on the day of the big match in the bus on the way to the stadium nobody talks. >> yes, they're all preparing. >> right. but when i think we're ready i have the bus driver put on a song, something i've chosen, one we all know. and we listen to the words together and it helps. >> rose: matt did a good job, too, didn't he? >> he did a great job. and that was a magic day of

filming. we shot that scene all day, all the different setups from the time he comes into the office until we finished that little scene there. and i'm asked of all of the scenes in the movie which ones were your best and that was one i walked away with thinking, gosh, that was great. >> rose: because? >> well, it's just the connection that was made between matt and i with character, you know? there were those two guys and it's... it's just great fun. i couldn't even get ou of character that day. >> rose: walked around as nelson mandela? >> as nelson mandela. there's a guy named saul kirchner... >> rose: in a comedy called "sun west" or "sun resorts" or

something. >> has these atlantis hotels and he opened a hotel in cape town, i think it was. called "the one and only." >> rose: he had a series called "the one and only." >> and the night after we shot that scene, the night of that scene we went to this big opening and i was still walking around as mandela. >> rose: (laughs) this is great. >> i couldn't give it up. >> rose: has he he seen it, the movie? >> yes, yeah. >> rose: have you talked to him? >> no, i mean i was sitting right next to him as we were watching it. i was looking at him. the one thing he said when he first saw the character "i know that fellow." >> rose: (laughs) that's great! i know that fellow! you know, he's had a remarkable second marriage, though.

>> yes, yes. a wonderful lady. >> rose: and his sense of his own legacy is what? >> nobody remembers. >> rose: nobody remembers? >> seriously. >> rose: nobody remembers. nobody remembers him? nobody remembers the struggle? >> rose: >> nobody remembers him. the struggle will never go away. but he doesn't know if his part in it is appreciated. >> rose: he told you thaw? >> he just says it. >> rose: i don't know if anybody will remember? >> well... you know.

he's just an old man now. he has a this wonderful personal assistance, a lady who's by his side all the time. her name is zell da sell da and she loves him. she's like his right and left hands and his conscious and his memory and all of that, you know? she's just... she reassures him, you know? >> this is part of what makes? my sense what makes what you do so incredible. not only do you get to inhabit and understand character, power, the life of people over a wide range, you get to travel, you

get to meet them, you get to feel. i mean, this is... >> yeah. yeah. you get it. >> rose: and you get to work with people that you really admire. i mean, if you are where you are you end up... yeah. >> rose: clint eastwood, jack nicholson and on and on and on and on. people... >> i'm at a point where i can call sidney poitier friend. that's amazing. >> rose: means what to you? >> sidney poitier was my beacon. he was... he was my guiding star as a kid, as a young man trying to get into this business. it was that sense that you can do it knowing where he came from

read all of his history, his life story, young kid from cat island in the bahamas washing dishes in new york city in the wintertime listening to the radio trying to get rid of the heavy bahamian accent that he had, turning into this man that he is now. >> he, like you, people would say, is if they did not exist we would have to create them. >> (laughs) >> rose: it's true! his class, his dignity. >> yes,. >> rose: but you go back to mississippi. >> yes. >> rose: why do you go back to mississippi? not that i don't like mississippi. in which you have the choice of anywhere in the world. >> yeah. when i left, when i graduated from high school like smoke, gone. >> rose: yes, right.

>> but i did... traveled. traveled around... >> rose: find a place where you can stand. >> yeah. and all n all the places i went to, you know, if thing about mississippi is it's racial. it's racial thing, you know? and i found it everywhere. it exists everywhere on some level. and i started going back top mississippi in the '70s. my parents had moved back and were well ensconced there and just go back and it's quiet and lovely and i thought well, this has always been the comfort zone for me. >> rose: go to the supermarket and they know who you are but they don't need to ask you for anything. >> right. i can go buy a tube of toothpaste without becoming an event. >> rose: exactly. because they've seen you before

and proud of it. there is also this about you. at 65 years old, you got your pilot's license. >> uh-huh. >> rose: as a young man you went into the air force. >> yeah. >> rose: as a mechanic? >> well i went in in my mind as a pilot. (laughter) but, yeah, when i came out of basic training i was going to go to radar school as a radar mechanic. something i had no aptude for at all. radar. >> rose: you went in it because you wanted to fly. way back then you wanted to fly. >> yeah. >> rose: and you didn't get your license until 65 which is important for two reasons. one, you still got them. >> yeah, still got it. and... >> rose: go ahead. >> flying a jet. >> rose: a jet now. >> my third. >> rose: do you sail anymore? >> iaven't sailed in... oh, i guess maybe coming up on four

years now. i got busy and then i had an accident so i... >> rose: automobile accident? >> yeah. i effectively don't have the use of my fingers on my left hand and that sold saying one hand for yourself and one for the ship, that's very true. so if you've only got one... >> rose: so you're working on it? >> yeah, yeah. constantly. >> rose: you once said that you wanted to go to sea on your boat. you wanted to sail into the ocean because there was something elemental about it. it was life and death if you didn't know what you were doing. >> yeah. >> rose: you were tempting the gods. >> you are... you know, i live a life of make-believe. and beyond a life of make

believe, there has to be a life of reality. and you and the sea, that is the ultimate reality, the ultimate reality is being at sea. on a boat. my stomach is talking to me, too. >> rose: and there's nowhere to go. >> no, you can't run. >> rose: you can't go down stairs and go next door. >> no, you can go down below and people have died that way. panic is the one thing you have to stand up and face. when things get bad, when they really get bad, when you learn how implacable nature is. >> rose: i've got one more minute here. do you worry about that... this is not about mortality and death and all of that.

but not being able to do this thing that you won't have an opportunity to do what it is you haveone so magnificently in your life? create characters? tell stories? >> do i worry about it? >> rose: yeah. >> not anymore. >> rose: you mean after you're a success you stop worrying? >> yeah. yeah. once i got a job on many t stage my first job i got press, good press. >> rose: never stopped, did it? >> yeah, and, you don't need much if this is what you really want to do. you don't need much in the way of reassurance. and for the new york press to say "wow," that's it. you're off and running. and just feel like okay, i can do this, i can make this work? >> rose: thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: great to see you.

>> always. >> rose: morgan freeman for the hour. thank you very much. we'll see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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