tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. first tonight, our conversation with father greg boyle on his remarkable work reforming gang members. in 1988 he started a gang intervention program called omoleye industries that became a model for gang rehabilitation around the nation. his book is called "tattoos of the heart." actress kim raver is here. she is part of the cast of the very popular hospital drama "grey's anatomy." she began her acting career right here on pbs as a cast member on "sesame street." that is coming up right now. >> there are so many things that walmart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly, we're helping build stronger communities and relationships. because with your help, the best is yet to come.

>> nationwide insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley." tavis and nationwide, working to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: father gregory boyle is the founder and executive director of homeboy industries, and model around the country for gang intervention. his work has steadily expanded and now includes five successful businesses run by former gang members.

his new book is called "tattoos of the heart: the power of boundless compassion." all proceeds from the book are going directly to his nonprofit work. he was the subject of a documentary narrated by martin sheen. >> it started with a funeral, a young gang members death, his first real connection to the neighborhood. >> i buried my first key it in 1988. he was -- i buried my first kid it in 1988. he was an identical twin. it was like he was staring at his mirror image in the coffin. it became this image for me of kids inexplicably killing their mirror image. tavis: i'm always fascinated, as much as i have read about your

work, i am always taken aback by how you got started in this line of work. it is especially interesting because you grow up in a nice, affluent neighborhood. i know it well because i live there now. yet, it was a trip to bolivia, leaving the comfort of that neighborhood in l.a., and this trip to bolivia where you said you went there in part because working with the poor got you closer to the gospel. tell me about that. >> i was only there a year because i got sick and i had to come home, but it helped me discover the gospel and the truth of it and somehow the poor had this privileged access to the gospel in the living of it. when i came back, i went to the university and i said i really want to live and work with the poor. fortunately for me, my

provincial set me to dolores mission, which was the poorest parish in the city, and that is where i began to discover this whole other world and the vocation within a vocation in terms of outreach to-members. tavis: -- two gang members. tavis: i am trying to figure out what spoke to your hard about the challenges, the struggle of these particular people. >> first of all, you cannot avoid it. during the 1980's, 1988-1998, at one point i had eight deaths and eight funerals in three weeks. it is hard to imagine now what that was like in the city, especially this place with the highest concentration of gang activity in the city. it was right between two housing projects, with several gangs at war with each other. i cannot avoid the reality, i had to face it with the people of the parish.

all these kids had no school, nobody wanted them. this was way before this started to have continuation schools. that brought gang members to the church, and little by little they said only if we had jobs. we found friendly employers, tried to, but that was not successful. then we started our own business and little by biddle we incrementally added to the stock of services that we -- little by little, we incrementally added to the stock of services that we offer. i think a lot of people disqualify themselves, i cannot possibly connect with them, i have never been imprisoned, i am white. a lot of people absent themselves from doing things, but it is the human thing. if you have a pulse, come in. it is about listening to somebody, being reverent in the presence of somebody who has had to carry more than i have ever

had to carry. anybody can be compassionate and have a response and stand in awe at what the poor have to carry, rather than stand in judgment. that is a huge problem, it seems to me, people disqualify themselves. they say i cannot see a beneficial presence to this subgroup of the poor, and that is unfortunate and not necessary. tavis: you have been at this so long. what is the greatest misunderstanding that people have about gang members? >> i think the outsider view thinks the kid is drawn to the gang, attracted. they tried to address what the attraction is. anderson cooper, i was interviewed it right before the show, and he asked a gang member, i don't see the attraction. that is the outsider view.

the truth is there is no attraction. the kid is not being pulled, he is being pushed by circumstances. the gangs are not the place is that kids seek, joined a gang and see the world. they are really wanting to get away from an informant or situation where the family dynamic is traumatic and painful. tavis: i have read interviews of thousands of people who say why you write about that -- what you write about that, conventional wisdom from the outsiders, is to believe what we are told, which is they are seeking love, they're seeking family units, acceptance, they're not just fleeing, they are seeking something. that meant we interview gang members and they say that. -- >> we interview gang members

and they say that. i know what they will say because we watch them on tv said, that is what i wanted as a kid. i want the cars and the money and women. but it is only because it is too painful to talk about, "my mom used to put cigarettes out on me and held my head in the toilet." that is the reason the kid joins the gag. it is not acceptable to say what they're thinking. it is a dilemma, because gang members say this is why, and i think that is the myth that does the most damage because it keeps us from addressing what this is really about. tavis: tell me about the title, "tattoos of the heart"? >> it comes from a specific story. a kid came to me and it was frustrating and i was coming down hard on him on the phone, and he was bugging me for the 18th time.

then i shifted and said, wait a minute, this guy is ok, why am i coming down on him. i said i am proud of you, your taking care of business. i give you credit for the man you have chosen to become and i am proud. there was silence. i thought he had hung up. then he said, "damn, i'm going to tattoo. all my heart." -- i'm going to tattoo that on my heart." it demonstrates that you get to a deeper place of compassion. tavis: there are a couple of stories i find interesting, one of them funny. the book again is written in a way that people i think will connect through the stories that are told. you have done other stuff. why write a book that tells stories? what you hope the reader will take away from the stories?

-- what do you hope the reader will take away from the stories? >> first of all, the stories come from homilies, so i always tell the stories. i have had these collected and i have been telling them for a quarter-century. i was in south bend, notre dame, somebody had read the book, a middle-aged white woman. she said, i thought this book would be about gang members. she said the book is about me, her. i thought, that is good, because i do not want it to be pigeonholed as a man more or a religious book. i wanted to speak to our common humanity, a sense of kinship, the mutuality and solidarity that everybody can join in. there is no "them." we have demonized this group, and there is a way to show that

there is no daylight separating us. and no kinship, no justice, no kinship, no [eace. -- peace. if we do not get to know each other, we will not accomplish the things we want to as a society. tavis: 1 funny story that illustrates how difficult it is, even in simple ways, for people who have not been love, respect, paid attention to, to learn about navigating. i love the story about the tattoo removal business. i will clean it up for you. i will start the story, let you finish. they have a tattoo removal business. there is a kid who comes to father boyle has a tattoo across his forehead, "f" the world,"

tattooed across his forehead. he said, father, i have been tried to get a job and i don't know why i'm having a hard time. >> it was like a billboard that filled his forehead. talk about the understatement. tavis: "i can't figure out why." >> i said, let's put our heads together on this one. the tattoo removal was born that day. i went to a doctor, at the hospital, a dermatologist. i said, help me out. pretty soon, the waiting list to got to be 1000. long story short, we have to machines, 12 doctors, and it was all begun because of this guy, who parenthetically came to see me about two months ago. i had not seen him in a long time and now his face is completely erased of the angry

messages and now he is a security guard at a movie studio in l.a. tavis: how important is removing these tattoos? >> it is a bonafide obstacle. if they want to work for somebody other than me, they have to clean that up, face, neck, elbow down, anything that is alarming. then they started lifting up their shirts and said, i want this off, and it takes so long and as painful, i would say, take your shirt off, nobody will see it. they said, my son will see it. then i thought, if you are willing to go through the ordeal, we will pick up. it is important. it sends signals to friend and foe alike, that is who i was, that is not who i want to be. tavis: how are the industry's

fearing in this recession? >> fairly well. people are quite supportive. we have a cafe and maintenance division, merchandising where we sell the logo. it is doing ok. we need to raise about -- it brings in about $3.5 million of the $10 million annual operation, said the business is important. we would obviously like that to go north so we can offer more services. tavis: his work has been emulated around the country, around the world when it comes to working with these persons whom many of us in society have written off. his famous father greg boyle. his new book is called "tattoos of the heart." i think the old white woman in indiana was right, it is not about gang members, is about us and the humanity of each other. >> a pleasure, as always.

tavis: up next, "grey's anatomy" actress kim raver. kim raver is a talented actress whose previous credits include "24" and "lipstick jungle." "grey's anatomy" airs thursday night at 9:00 on abc. here is a scene from "grey's anatomy." >> what happened? if we were in the middle of the council. >> you are a doctor. >> i offered her options. she does not want to die a slow death or be so heavily sedated she might as well be dead. and i don't blame her. this is an act of mercy. >> you are killing her. by writing a prescription, you are killing that woman. >> are right, then. i will find someone else. -- all right, then. i will find someone else.

tavis: that episode was about assisted suicide. the you ever find yourself wrestling with the material? -- do you ever find yourself wrestling with the material? >> absolutely, but it forces me to investigate and research and sometimes separate yourself from what the character will do from what i would personally do, but then sometimes you also align yourself. i think what is so interesting for me, the different roles i've played, i love doing the research and i feel fortunate in the sense that i can explore many different worlds of things i may not really get to learn and a lot about. tavis: "grey's anatomy" does a good job of dealing with contemporary issues. >> i think we are able to read from our papers and on the internet about what is going on and iraq. i have actually, through cavan,

i have got a lot of books -- through kevin, i have got a lot of books, and i've learned so much more about what the troops are going through, and my respect and appreciation for what they sort of -- how they dedicate their lives for our country. that has been difficult to really sort of -- as i opening as it is, and also in a beautiful way, very illuminating. tavis: tell me more about your character. >> my character, and owen hunt who was in iraq has brought me to this hospital and we used to serve together in iraq. i am a cardio thoracic surgeon.

tavis: did you know what that was before you started playing this actor -- this character? >> i cannot even say it. [laughter] tavis: you were so it smooth about saying it. >> she is a heart doctor. i actually got to go out and observe an open heart surgery, a real one. tavis: did it freak you out? >> yes. i was not in a gallery, watching down. i was literally standing over the patient's head and looking into the heart. there are things that i get to research and see that i never -- i think when you are a patient, you never really think about the intricacies of this doctor is going in, and i was really

watching this heart and this incredible surgeon and his dexterity. he goes into surgery and is not leave, kept post, about eight hours. i, on the other hand, "can i go to the bathroom?" i did really well untilpart in e surgery or eye started feeling the darkness was coming in -- where i started feeling the darkness was coming in. i said, i have to lean against the wall. i stepped back and leaned against the wall and a sort of felt myself coming to. tavis: somebody must really like you in this town. "grey's anatomy" is obviously a huge hit. you came from a huge hit called "24." >> thank you.

tavis: it is cool. >> it is very cool. i think people have said in the past, but you never quite believe it, but i have also been able to work with just fine, fine actors and writers, stepping into the2 world the 24"was kiefer sutherland -- stepping into the world of "24" was kiefer sutherland. what is great about "grey's anatomy," there are so many cast members, every day is an opportunity to work with different types of actors, the different ways that different actors work. i feel what it would be like in the old times when there was big theaters and you would stay with the same group and do different plays. tavis: this does not happen often on the show, but every now and then we have a guest to

comes to the set from their set where they were filming the show date tape and work on. you just came to us from shooting stuff today. for those of us who are "grey's anatomy" fans, tell me, without giving away the story line, what you were shooting today. >> literally, i was texting your people and said, i am still in my scruggs, stepping off the set. -- i am still in my scrubs, stepping off the set. i have to be very careful talking about. tavis: don't give anything away. >> i was doing a scene. my character, several others floating around.

i discuss something a little embarrassing that had happened the night before. tavis: okay. now we will try to figure out what that scene is when it comes on tv. i am told, if my research is right, that all of this wonderful acting. you get a chance to do on "-- that all of this wonderful acting that you get to do on "24" started on "sesame street"? >> it did. you were such a fine actress, working with puppets. it was at pbs. i am a huge fan of pbs. they have taken great risks. when that show first aired, when i first came on, i don't consider myself a child actor, first of all. i was hanging out with puppets and getting to count and play.

but it was a really progressive -- i look at it now with my kids and i think, they took great risks at a time when things were a little more conventional, and it was great. it is great is a huge success, and they just had a big anniversary. tavis: 40 years. >> that was a magical time for me. tavis: you have two kids. do you find that your kids learn differently than the kids did back then? is there a different process? do they still learn the same way? the same tools? >> my son the other day, i was reading him "the hungry caterpillar," and he started counting. yes, i think that comes from us reading to him. i am a big fan of that, but i

think also watching "sesame street" and they do it in a great, fun way. also, i think it is great about the show that there is a sense of humor about it towards the parents as well and for the kids. you know, when you are trying to get 50 more minutes of sleep and the kids are watching, i find myself opening my eyes and chuckling. i think they learned in the same way. the thing that is different, i think, we have so much stimulation right now, compared to what i was growing up, that i like "sesame street," that still has that nice pace. tavis: still the best babysitter on television, and they can learn.

enough about "sesame street." catch on thursday night, kim raver, now on "grey's anatomy." >> thank you so much for having me. tavis: my pleasure. access are ready a podcast on pbs.org, and i will see you next time. good night from l.a., and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley on pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time with former bush speechwriter david frum, and environmentalist annie leonard. that is next time. we will see you then. >> there are so many things that walmart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly, we're helping build stronger communities and relationships. because with your help, the best

is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley." tavis and nationwide, working to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--