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>> union bank offers unique insight and expertise in a range of industries. what can we do for you? >> we are a nation of explorers. we seek new ways of living, of thinking, and of expressing ourselves. we take risks. we learn from experience. and we keep moving forward. that is why we encourage and celebrate the explorer in all of us. >> and now "bbc newsnight." >> this week, we learn two al qaeda leaders were killed in droned attacks in europe.

the clash of emerging economic titans, that democracy versus dictatorship. and we talk to comedian russell brand about celebrity culture. >> people enjoy narratives. i suppose that's why politics have become inundated with narratives. people no longer want to grapple with the depths of the grand ideas. >> a british man killed in pakistan was being groomed to be an al qaeda terrace. that is the claim of the security source who has spoken to us. this comes as threat levels were raised across europe, leading to the evacuation of the eiffel tower. several militants have been killed in recent days, including

a man who has been on the fbi's most wanted list for 10 years. this program source says the man was involved in plots to bring mayhem to the u.k. and elsewhere similar to attacks in mumbai. >> it has been an intensive month for drone attacks in north waziristan. more than 20 with more than 100 killed. critics say amongst them will be in a sense, but it is clear many of these strikes have hit the mark. one of the men killed was named as abdul. we are told abdul had a british wife and was living in punjab.

three months ago he traveled 40 miles kilometers west of waziristan. there he attended a meeting of 300 militants from the taliban and al qaeda. >> i was told at the meeting abdul was being lined up to lead the new terrorist group to attack targets in the u.k. apparently he was relatively new to the group. it was decided to meet again to finalize the leadership role. before that next meeting, the drone attacks killed him and three others in north waziristan. the names of the other men include an alleged yemeni explosives expert. the fbi says a 36-year-old yemeni was one of those who died alongside the british suspect. he appears on the fbi's most wanted list after he was

released from prison in yemen. for the americans, he was a big prize. there was a $5 million reward. this suspect was never to see a court. the drone attack saw to that. >> he was a key member of al qaeda's operations in yemen. he continued to remain a very prominent within al qaeda operations in africa, and was operating inside pakistan to help rejuvenate the group because it has been so dominant. he has been identified as one of al qaeda's future leaders. >> he was wanted in connection with murdering american nationals in 2007. years -- he was the key man behind the creation of a new group, al qaeda in the arabian peninsula.

all the talk now is a commando attack modeled on mumbai in 2008 when gunmen used an automatic weapon to murder hundreds of people. we obtained these tapes of them being directed from pakistan. security and intelligence sources stressed european investigations under way it may not be linked. they did indicate there may be evidence of mobile-style attack planning at an early stage -- evidence of mumbai-style attack planning. >> some resources indicate it is in the planning stage. it will be considered a very serious threat. >> how vulnerable is the uk? forces are largely unarmed.

with security would bring urban centers to a halt. if terrorists were going to get ahold of weapons, it could wreak havoc. if a group of heavily armed attackers turn up in the u.k., there is a danger they could be out man. >> i would not disagree with that. -- they could be outmanned. >> police forces facing our people is different than facing terrorists, but if you look at things like the iranian embassy in the 1980's , there are things police can do to get assistance to increase the capability. >> security analysts believe this man attended two terror summits before 9/11 and in pakistan. it is significant such a senior figure was with the younger

british men when they died. the recent meeting in north waziristan seems to have the old hallmark of the experienced teaching the new. >> to discuss this further my colleague was joined by michael chertoff, and the german ambassador to great britain. >> the americans are getting some pretty good intelligence. >> obviously, accepting the report -- i cannot confirm these attacks or the outcome. nevertheless, that would be very good news. eliminating a major figure with a lot of experience would be a blow to al qaeda and would increase the security by diminishing their capabilities. this is the kind of result which

is a very positive development. >> there have been a series of these strikes. >> anything that incapacitates the leadership has a couple of benefits. it eliminates experience, and capability, and people with a familiarity of what has worked in the past. it also makes the idea of going to waziristan much less appealing for potential recruits. we know that al qaeda has tried to recruit westerners and americans who have western passports. the idea being they will train them and will send them back to their home countries to target people for active terrorism. anything we can do to drive down that appeal is going to be a positive development. >> can you help with these reports of increasing threats to european states? >> much of this is highly

classified the and has not been made public, but a reading between the lines, it appears there are multiple sources of information that are probably quite concrete that point to an attack in europe. what is lacking is any specific detail about what the target is. that is why the warnings you have heard tend to be general. they are not focus on a particular city, but they are looking at a number of countries. the dilemma is there is indication there is something dangerous and well-advanced, but no clarity about what the actual target may be. >> some of these reports suggest the latest drone's strike killed eight people -- latest droned strike killed eight people of german

nationality. >> we don't have any confirmation on what it is. we have no final confirmation. it could be possible, but we don't know. >> what is the german assessment of the tariff threat? >> there is -- of the terror threat? >> the difference is just what michael chertoff said. we knew it for several months that a very nasty people are planning terrorist attacks in europe, but we don't know where or when. if we do more, it would be more than general. what we have is a more general bratt, but we take this very serious. -- a more general threat. >> the british and french governments are alarmed about the threat level. more alarmed than the germans. why is that?

>> i know the british government warned people about traveling to the continent. the french had a series of arrests in the last 24 hours that suggests there is an active terrorist plan. they have good reason to be concerned. why the german government does not see this in the same light may reflect the intelligence they have. >> why is your assessment different in germany? >> the ministry of the interior had a meeting with a terrorist group. he took into account all the intelligence we have, which includes the intelligence from our friends in allied countries. this includes from america and the others. i cannot go any further into the intelligence, but the assessment of the intelligence was it is a general threat, but there is

no when or where exactly. we don't have a concrete threat. >> do you know how many german nationals have gone to these training bases? >> we don't know exactly but we have an estimate that it could be around 100. so it is less than going out of britain, but this is -- we don't have a very big community of people. but dangerous enough. >> ambassador, thank you. >> here is a news from the commonwealth games in india. some of the athletes are falling sick. with complaints about everything, to the continuing criticism of the ordination of the games, does the -- does this

tell us anything about these emerging giants? i was joined by the spites -- sports writer and author. \ is this seen as embarrassing for indians in their image? >> it is hugely embarrassing. this was meant to be shiny india. the india that has emerged since the economy has opened up. the india that can go to the economic summits and high places, and late we are back with the old india where things don't work -- and suddenly we are back with the old india. the food is bad, people fall sick. >> why is it?

there are successful indian business people over the world. >> what doesn't work in india is the state. the state structure does not work. success is by private enterprise largely. a group of indians dedicated to getting things together. in the autumn of 2007 india wins the first world cricket tournament in south africa. within five months -- it was done by a small group of people having a leadership and knowing what to do. indian government doesn't work. the infrastructure you are talking about is government-led? >> do people in china think it is because of the authoritarian government that the olympics were such a success? >> partly, that is one of the

big reasons everything got on schedule. everything was done and very shiny. on the other hand, china had been trying to bid for the olympic games -- it was an ambitious project. the chinese took great pride in that project. they did a very good job. china had been united for over five fastened years. unity is a part of china. >> -- united for over 5000 years. >> i don't think the chinese see india as an equal rival just yet. >> sticking on the question of the sport itself, is the sport taken quite that seriously? is swimming regarded as a big sport?

>> middle-class indians mostly don't swim. the people who swim party poor. the waters are pretty dirty, so most middle-class people will not allow their kids to swim. i grew up in bombay and we were not taught how to swim. >> dan suggested china doesn't regard india as a rival. how does that seem to your perspective? >> there is great resentment. when tschida came on the world scene the indian -- when china came on the world scene -- since then, indians have been looking at china saying how can we compete with them? these games which were meant to be india's coming out party is another illustration of how indians cannot compete with the chinese. >> do you think it is seen by

most chinese that this is the chinese century? >> the chinese the secretly hope that. they have become confident in the way, to the early with the chinese economy being the largest in the world -- particularly with the chinese economy being the largest. >> you said people are very proud of it and plant for it. it is much easier if you have a communist party with a ruthless system. you can drive these things through. >> also, china has been the largest meritocracy for thousands of years. china has had the education system. every bureaucrat has done the education system based on

meritocracy. the chinese have had that tradition and have benefited the chinese economy. >> doesn't india have that also? >> india does not have [unintelligible] with the chinese opening system, there was one figure missing. the indians did not distort their history. the problem for the indians is that they still have -- i found every chinese woman i met had a western name. they wanted to show they could do the west. indians are trying to say, we can do ourselves. they copied western filmmaking and can do something in the end. >> i totally disagree. the reason the chinese have

western names is because westerners cannot pronounced chinese names. it is in no way are they trying to compete with the west. the chinese are becoming very self confident in the way they can do things their way. particularly in western business going to china. >> comedy and offense had seemed to go together. russell brandt calls on media frenzy over comments made about his relations with the granddaughter of a british actor. in the past he has also annoyed americans, calling president bush a retarded cowboy. now a huge movie star, how does he deal with the constant media attention?

>> russell brand, you say at the start i was born to be famous but it took some decades for the rest of the world to realize that. why did you want to be famous? >> i grew up in a rather desolate environment. i think the myths that was a believe -- amidst that -- fame is seemingly accessible even when you live in areas where it is miles away from you. >> lewis hamilton is famous for driving cars very fast. >> absolutely. >> you don't want to be famous for anything. >> i have always thought that

that an appealing trait of craving fame -- my deep affection for my art. i am a stand-up comedian. i spent years and years. i have an attachment to what i do. my craving for fame, i don't want to takeñ responsibility for that. >> they miss people appear to have a significance. previously -- famous people appear to have significance. >> diane that was presented as the virgin, the whore, a mo artyr. people enjoy narratives. i suppose that's what politics has become inundated with these

narratives. people no longer want to grapple with the depth of the grant idea. no one cares about communism anymore because they have been fed this sludge of celebrity. >> what happens to you when it arrives? >> you have the initial thrill of achievement, at the same as if you had acquired a pair of shoes. then you realize the issues are not that i'm comfortable. you want another pair of shoes. you realize you need something more valuable. celebrity is tiresome, particularly now. yet the fame continues to cast its shadow. >> does privacy mean anything?

>> it means a great deal to make come up mostly as a commodity. hard to come by. -- a great deal to me, mostly as a commodity hard to come by. >> these are quite personal things. somen't you think art to degree is about the personal? what other conduit for experience do i have? there are countless thoughts and fears in these pages. >> do you worry it has done something to you? >> when i first became famous someone asked how i was coping with this. i must have looked shattered staring up at the summit. you lose something and never get

it back. that privacy, that ability to identify yourself and define your own narrative. there is a distracted icon of me splashed across newspapers. these -- this is a huge compromise. it is not what you think it will be. if you have a deep love of singing or dancing, then you should pursue that, not because you think there might be some supplementary celebrity experience. then you will experience dissatisfaction. >> you start believe -- you start to believe the public's idea of you. >> fortunately i have real friends and real people around me. we are aware of how preposterous it is.

which -- what is much more convenient is the [unintelligible] >> i have never interviewed who is as animated as you are while speaking. do you ever worry you will burn out? >> i will die. i do worry. >> you are burning with a very high flame. will you be able to keep it up? >> i don't know if that is something i could control. i still think death will loom. >> but do you think you can continue at this level? >> i hope not because i will be bored with it. i don't want to dwell here with such trivial things for very

much longer. >> you seek death? >> between now and deaf it would be interesting if i were able to achieve something -- between now and death, it would be interesting to achieve something important. we should try to examine the things we are using to make us happy, at the pursuit of a celebrity, consuming of products, and try to aspire to something more beautiful. i am not a politician or a theologian. perhaps if we were in tune with more beautiful things we would not worship sets -- worshiped such peculiar notions. >> that is all for this week. goodbye. >> hello and welcome. >> see the news unfold.

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