>> welcome to our program. tonight, yang lan, one of the most exciting television personalities in china talks about china today. >> there are still regulations, censorship, frustrations, that's for sure. but i also see progress, especially through the introduction of the internet. it has become a big public arena that more people would express their opinions towards public policies, pros and cons. and there have been many cases when abuses of power were reported on the internet and the huge public out cry would drive the government to be more spontaneous, to be more transparent, and also it

directly led to the change of regulations of practices by the government. >> and klaus schwab joins us, the founder of the world economic forum and he talks about how he sees the world today. >> i'm looking at europe, i'm looking at the united states now. so much preoccupied with the internal issues, and i wonder sometimes how much energy is absorbed by introvert considerations instead of looking out to the world at a very crucial moment because in some way the cards are newly distributed and self power plays a very central role in this new allocation process of power. >> yang lan, klaus schwab. next.

additional funding provided by: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

>> yang lan is here. she is one of the most recognized faces on chinese television. her many adventures include yang lan 101 where she interviewed everybody from hillary clinton to kobe bryant. there's "her village" a show targeting urban women. and "her office" china's answer to "the office." here is a look at some of her work. >> one important way to understand this world is through people. everyone can be a universe of himself, which can be explored and understood. >> do you have to win in whatever you do? >> i don't like to lose in much of anything. >> it's not a bad idea at all. >> taste so much better. >> did you try to change chinese perception of americans? >> i wanted you to know americans weren't stuffy old guys sitting around in a three piece suit. >> i think your father should run for president of the united states.

>> why? >> it would suck! >> for him or for the country? >> being the queen is actually a job. >> the job description changes. >> so what is your best suggestion to president obama? >> basically to do the opposite from what president bush has done. >> yang lan is chairwoman of sun media group which has other businesses in media, online and more. i'm pleased to have her here for the first time. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. thank you for having me. >> tell me how this started for you. >> it all started exactly 20 years ago when i was graduating from college. at that time the national television had its first open audition for college graduates where it's a prime time variety show. that was a show to introduce sightseeing around the world to the chinese audience who, at that time, 99% of our population didn't even have a passport.

so it was a brand new exposure to the outside world when china was opening up. >> had you thought about that as a career before that. >> not ott at all. any major in college was english language and foreign studies. when i was offered this opportunity, out of curiosity, i went as well as another one thousand girls. but after rounds of auditions, i believe seven rounds of auditions i became the last one who survived it. so it gave me a really good start into broadcasting television. and the first show i hosted was a prime time nationwide show which had the audience of 200 million every week. i did it for four years and it gave me a good start in my career. >> it's stunning to hear those numbers from an american television perspective. i once did an interview with the

minister of culture from china here in washington where they had had a chinese festival at the kennedy center and they asked me could they rebroadcast it in china. i said, of course. they said you will probably reach 300 million people, which is, you know, more people than have seen anything i have ever done in my entire life. >> but we have 1.3 billion. >> so then you began to -- >> then i quit my job to come to the states for postgraduate studies at columbia university of new york, where i studied international affairs. and upon graduation, i went back to hong kong to join phoenix tv, the mandarin channel of the star network and i started to produce my own show, yang lan 101 which was the first ever in-depth one one one interview show on chinese television. i have been doing that in phoenix television for 12 years.

so over this time, i have interviewed more than 600 movers and shakers around the world and many of them have been your guests, too. >> indeed. where does the entrepreneural spirit that you have come from? the fact that you have not just had a career but you also have engaged in creating businesses and enterprises along with your husband? >> well, that was 10 years ago, the year of 2000. we co-founded sun tv, which was the first satellite documentary channel for the greater china area. at that time i was obsessed with documentaries and i think think have lasting value and give in depth look at history and culture and people. but then that business, you know, had a flop. in four years time. because the business model was not sustainable. the fact was, we were positioned in hong kong but then we have

limited rights in the main land which did not give it enough advertising revenue basis. >> i think murdock was invested at one time in phoenix was he not. >> in he why. i think he is still one of the shareholders. so we sold the channel and started to build multimedia integration into different aspects of the media, television, websites, and then big events, and so on and so forth. >> now is there a website now that shows the broadest understanding of who you are and what you're about and might have a blog from you. >> i have a blog at several leading places in china and twitter. our social community for "her village" for example is around 3 to 4 million followers. and our website is mostly in mandarin. it's called kenyu.com which is

the chinese spelling of "her village" targeted at urban women gll where is it that you think this remarkable career is headed? >> i don't know. there were so many opportunities in china. the media is also opening up. so there are all sorts of things that you want to do. and if you don't have existing platforms to help you do that, you try to create something for yourself. i think that's where the entrepreneurship comes from. and for me, it's about, you know, i think we have come into age in which not a single platform can complete the communication job so it's more integrated media communication into your targeted audience. and for me, you know, serving the urban women audience is one of my goals. >> was there just a natural

instinct for business that was there, dormant in china, waiting for it to open and waiting for their opportunity to create things? >> i believe so. it has been suppressed for decades. and then suddenly when things open up, you know, everyone wants to try his luck. so there's a lot of entrepreneural spirit in the air. especially among young people who want to try their luck and, above all, try to realize their dreams, their aspirations. so i think, you know, your imagination is your limit. >> jack maul was here the other day, someone i'm sure you know. and he has created an amazon like empire. it's extraordinary. >> yes. and it's the age for young people to create their own empires. for me it's not about building empires but it's about something that i really enjoy doing. and sometimes i think i'm good

at it. >> rose: you obviously are. >> so trying something new and not just asking the question, why do you want to do it but the question, why not? >> rose: exactly. >> that is my mentality. >> rose: talk to us about the cultural changes and the changes in fashion in cinema, in a sense the lifestyle in the urban areas. >> the following two decades we possibly witnessed a renaissance of all kinds in china, from arts to, you know, cinema to documentaries to fashion to whatever. but also we found it is restoration of values into a society, where people got the solution from certain ideologies fore but then -- >> past the cultural revolution. >> yeah. and then there's materialism and

a dating show, when a boy asks a girl, do you want to sit on the back seat of my bicycle and we both have fun, the girl said i would rather cry in the back seat of a bmw, which aroused a huge controversy in society. >> rose: suggesting what? >> suggesting materialism is overruling the value system of the younger generation. but then there's a big out cry in the society saying that, you know, what is wrong with us? is it the materialism? is it the material success, is that the only goal for our generation? or is there something more valuable, more lasting than we are seeking? so i think for the next two decades, it's not just a renaissance of art and fashion of creativity, but also it's about the reinventing of our value system. and building up civil society is a part of that. last week, my foundation, sun

kucha foundation teamed with bill a melinda gates foundation looking for chinese billionaires but it's not just about a giving pledge. it's about equal exchange of ideas, of philanthropy, and i invited the minister of civil affairs to be a partner, from which he also wrote a blog saying that he got so much feedback from future philanthropists and saying, first of all, that we need legislation for thran throw pee and also -- philanthropy building for our ngo's. >> will the men and women now in their 30's and 40's, how are they different from the generation they will succeed. >> they have a decent college education, for many of them, and

then they have exposure through the internet and other media to the world. and many of them can afford international travel these days and you see the booming of tourism both at home and abroad. so this generation does not only think about themselves with the limitation of geographic boundaries, but, rather, they can think across the borders. the entrepreneurs are investing in other countries, and the younger people, they are seeking, you know, education here or in europe and elsewhere. so there's not -- you know, i think less limit in terms of what they can do, what they can achieve. >> rose: most of us know about beijing and shanghai and congress hong and a few other huge cities. tell us about china beyond that? >> in china there's a huge

disparity from east to west -- >> rose: right. >> -- and from second-tear to third-tier cities but there's a massive process of urbanization. >> rose: people coming from the rural areas to the city? >> over the past two decades more than 200 million rural population have been urbanized. for the next two decades, another 300 million are coming into cities. >> rose: what does that mean for china that they're coming in? are they finding jobs? are they finding security? >> they are finding jobs, they are finding opportunity, but also public policy needs to be adjusted to suit the needs of them and their children. for example in a how should the local cities provide medical services, education, housing to these migrant workers, should they be treated equally as city residents, so on and so forth, so a lot of experiments are

going on. in china there are more than 300 cities with a population above 1 million. and if you visit second- or third-tier cities now in china, massive construction and also more sophisticated city planning. you know, you see hundreds and thousands of new theaters being built and museums and parks and so on and so forth. and the high speed train will soon connect the whole country and raise it to another level of communication and transportation. so you will see the speeding up of communication and also the spread of information. i don't know what the country is headed for but i think it's headed for. >> rose: for the largest economy in the world for sure. >> i think it's headed to a more open society and also for young people more opportunities.

>> rose: why doesn't that take place faster? >> instability is an issue if you have 300 million people migrating -- if you see it, you will be astonished, every year during chinese new year there will be 200 million people coming back home to their rural residence and that is the migration of a huge population and also there's disparity between the urban and the rural areas, and young college graduates would be overwhelmed by the rising of real estate prices in major metropolitan cities. >> for commercial real estate there's some fear of a bubble taking place. >> yes. so you have all sorts of concerns and worries. i think keeping the society together is a huge challenge and a task. believe it or not, as a media professional, i think sometimes the speed is a little bit too

fast. for example, the usage of land. probably we are over using it and we have used the land, a reserve that should have been used for the next generation, but we have developed so many things on the piece of ground, the architecture for example, there's some very bad pieces that will be taken apart sooner or later so what a waste of the environmental resources and the money into it. so i think the society is opening up and keeps opening up. >> what do you worry about for your country? >> what do i worry about? well, i worry about how do you keep pace with this development, with this construction, without the younger generation losing

opportunity? well nowadays, for example, i will interviews with so-called tribe of ant which is used to describe the new college graduate with an income of $500 a month, they cannot afford an apartment or a home. within 10 years or 20 years of employment. and they're losing their home. so how can the society provide young people with opportunities to succeed? >> only if they maintain the kind of growth rate that they have had. >> also they have to maintain a reasonable portion of the population. >> how do they do that? >> i don't have that but that's a concern for me. >> for a long time young chinese have gone to american unit universities, to british universities and many have stayed and some have come back.

so you have people now in their 40's and 50's with graduate education outside of china, and they're being asked to come back, to come back and take part. and the appeal is out of national pride. do you see much of that in terms of people that left china, were in the united states, in england, other places, russia, who decided to go back to china and participate in this extraordinary transformation that is taking place. >> national pride is one thing but opportunity and a chance to realize your dream is another. i think it's a more decisive element. >> >> for example, architects can aspire to build one major building in manhattan but how many opportunities will be

afforded to him? but in china, you have hundreds, dozens of cities designing their landmarks. >> most great architects i know are working in china. >> it's a huge testment of all sorts of styles and creativity. and of course young people like to go back and to seek their success, or have their name made. also young business people, when they, you know, stay in here in the u.s. they see all sorts of services which are still unavailable in china, they can go back home and start a training center, a school, a kindergarten. you know, they can start anything, using the references that they learned here or in europe or anywhere else in the world and when back home they can start something from scratch and get successful in a few years' time. so i think that temptation is

even greater than the national pride. but of course national pride is one element of course. >> how fast is the middle class rising because many look at it as an important element of china's growth to find markets internally as well as serving markets externally. >> i think the middle class is growing very fast. i don't have a specific number i can give you. it depends on how would you define a middle class person, a regular job, a home. >> rose: how would you define a middle class person in china. >> i would say a rental home, a regular job, career promotion in site and raising children and having a car, you know? that could be some of the things. but if you think about the rise of cars, car sales in china, i

think that would be one of the symbols of the rising middle class. last year, 10 million new cars were sold in china. >> it is becoming the first or second largest market for every -- >> i think that could be one single of the rising of middle class in china. >> rose: when we look at the economics of china and the politics of china and the change of china there is always the question of freedom of expression. we all know about the google controversy that took place. how would you characterize freedom of expression today in china? >> there are still regulations, censorship, frustration, that's for sure. but i also see progress, especially through the introduction of the internet. it has become a big public arena that more people will express their opinions towards public policies, pros and cons, and there have been many cases when

abuses of power were reported on the internet and the huge public out cry would drive the government to be more spontaneous, to be more transparent, and also it directly led to the change of regulations or practices by the government. i think that is the progress that we have made. >> >> rose: and human rights? >> well, taking the example of, you know, people in custody or people in prison, there were cases reported through the internet that they were, you know, mistreated and then related personnel were punished, investigations were initiated, and regulations have been, you know, reshaped. i think those are progresses that we can see. but of course, you know, in such a vast country, you see a lot of issues and problems, pumping out

every day in a lot of places. i think right now the major concern is about land usage, you know, people worry about proper compensation for their land which is taken away for organization or development. so what is proper compensation? sometimes the government and the residents may have different perspectives and a lot of arguments on that issue. and that's what we see as the -- you know, a lot of incidents coming up. >> rose: how do most chinese that you know, your friends and colleagues view the united states today? >> wow, that's a big question. i think people look up to the u.s. as it is a free and open society. it's leading, you know, it's leading in education, in culture, in world politics and

so on and so forth. but i think many chinese disagree on many of the international policies that the u.s. government holds, especially, you know, the iraq war and so on and so forth. >> but some agreement on north korea and some effort to cooperate on north korea. >> yeah, there's cooperation between the u.s. and china on a lot of fronts. >> rose: i realize that you do television programs and entrepreneural activities and you're not a part of the government but how do you think that china sees its role in the world over the next 25 years? >> well, i think -- well, china will take on more responsibilities in terms of, you know, free trade, in terms of the environmental protections. it's not just for the sake of the outside world. it's for our own people. we live in a -- also, i think,

from internal perspective we see more problems than outsiders can see. we see hundreds of millions of workers, you know, who are migrant workers whose job may be at stake if foreign currency change's little bit because the margin for the manufacturing industry is very low. >> rose: so you're suggesting china's resistance to change in the currency is partly because it would affect the wages of workers in china? >> not just of the wages but security of jobs. >> >> rose: job security per se. >> it could affect millimeters and tens of millions of jobs. i'm not arguing on the government's point of view, but i'm just saying that, as an snider, we see more internal challenges than outside can see. >> americans make arguments the same way that in fact you need to pose tariffs because you need to protect american workers. and other countries do the same

thing. the idea is to protect jobs and that is an important thing for affiliates all over the world. so how do you hope china will grow? what is your own glatd ambition for this place that has gone and you have played such an important cultural and media role? reflecting its change? >> well, for me, i think bridging china and the outside world is part of what i can do. serving as the ambassador for baby olympics expo in china could be part of that. so that partin clouds explaining to the world what is going on in china as well as explaining to my audience what is going on around the world. you know, it's interesting that my first show on television was about introducing the sceneries around the world, histories and

geographies, for my audience. but later on about, interviewing people, personalities, insights, perspectives to my audience which is more in depth, i hope, and that is something that i take great pride in. another thing i want to do is to help to enhance the growth of the civil society in china. i think -- >> by that you mean creating institutions, courts and -- >> well, the npo's and the ngo's, well, my foundation has been working with the leading educational institutions, like harvard university, columbia university, peeking university to offer workshops for training of organizations in china so i think that capacity building for the civil society will mean a

lot of future for our society. >> rose: finally, what brings you to new york? >> well, this time i was invited to attend fortune magazine's "most powerful women" conference in washington. and it's always sweet to come back to new york. i lived here for three years at columbia and so visiting some of my old friends would mean a lot. and coming back to the city on a sunny day, having a feel of the central park and then work on madison avenue, you know, 57th, and get the feel of the city also means a lot of things to me. this is a city that i love. i had my postgraduate studies, i was married and my first child was born here in this city, so i have a perm and emotional attachment to the city itself. >> rose: we're glad to see you. >> thank you, charlie. thank you for having me. >> rose: we look forward to visiting you you in china. >> please do. >> rose: next on charlie rose,

a conversation about russia, music, about conducting with valerie >> carl swab is the founder of the world economic forum which brings together leaders each year in switzerland. they will celebrate their hoeth anniversary next year. the theme is "shared norms for the new reality." i'm pleased to have him back at

the table to discuss the world of networking as well. >> thank you for enlightening me for being back here. >> the world united forum is a worldwide phenomena. tell us about the growth of it. when you started it, what did you hope it would be and what it has become. >> it started actually on a very simple base of a book i had written in 1970, where i describe probably for the first time the saying business people should be responsible not only to shareholders but also to us all, the stakeholders in the company. so one night i decided why not build a platform where stakeholders could meet. of course i had no idea at the time it would become such a neat

organization. because if you look today what we need in the world are stakeholder organizations. >> rose: and dialogue. >> and dialogue. but even more than dialogue. i mean, we have become an organization which has meetings and of course establishes its problem. but what is essential is that those people are engaged in a process. a process that is part of a community, where they interact, where they change ideas and experience. but we also have a platform to join for action in public private partnerships main. >> i in how many countries now? >> of course our membership is worldwide. >> rose: right. you you have meetings in china and meetings in the middle east. >> in africa. in latin-america, in switzerland, of course, but apart of the meetings i think we have projects now everywhere in

tanzania, columbia and so on, and here the essential point is that all of those portraits integrate business governments and civil society. >> rose: and there have been some rather remarkable incidents thank the you have had there. >> i think we were quite essential in certain reconciliation processes in the '80's. who thinks today that turkey was in a war -- we were the organization that first brought the factions in south africa together, for our first meeting, we played quite a role in the middle east. and of course there are many things where we do not have

knowledge because that was a very public meeting but on the other hand a lot of such dialogues and so on happened without us knowing of it. >> how do you decide on the theme? and tell me what this year's theme means. >> what we are doing is based on the input of our community. so of course we have our member companies and out of our 500 companies, and 400 are our members and what we are doing is listening. also i'm traveling around, i'm just coming from a trip to china and afterwards to tokyo to listen. what is on your mind? what is your concern? and to feel not only what is important now but what are the trends? what are the news one year from now, and then to translate those

ideas into a program, that's our part. >> >> what are you hearing as you make the trips to china and other places this year. >> i think we are moving out of the crises. >> the economic crises. >> the economic crises. but it was a structural crises, not just economic debt crises but we have to rebuild to a certain extent our system. so if you look at the future, i think people are now getting more concerned with long-term challenges. i'm thinking nuclear proliferation, food, security and so on. i think those issues will preoccupy people very much in the future. and our part is to make sure that we alert people now and so that we can present possible solutions for those challenges. >> >> rose: what do you think the chinese are thinking and worrying about as they look at the world and know that there

has been an economic shift in their direction? >> i think the chinese, if we take it from a policy point of view are very concerned how they should use their new power in the world. and what i see or i think of, this new power in a very positive way. how can we be more engaged? i know it is in our own activities, how much they want to engage. >> who had the largest delegation there? >> i think what is interesting is that you have every country represented in a -- i would say significant way, so in the area of the countries, we have at least two cabinet members if not the head of the government presses. but next year we will have a

push from india again, from china, from south africa so it's newly merging companies. and one of my concerns at the moment is that we have to make sure that the traditional powers are not fading away in this more informal interaction process. >> rose: what do you mean by that, "not fading away"? >> some of the countries, i'm looking at europe, i'm looking at the united states now, are so much preoccupied with their internal issues, and i wonder sometimes how much energy is absorbed by introvert considerations instead of looking out to the world at a very crucial moment. because in some way, circuits

are newly distributed and soft power play's central role in this new allocation process of power. >> i mean, i just came from a conversation for a program i'm doing with the russian foreign minister. he talked about that and he also though talked about a rep sans in relationship with america and the united states. but they're all aware of of the prime see of economics -- the prima see of economics in terms of dictating their power. >> i think i think today, it's a big loss, political power and achieving is more of the past. which doesn't conclude that you have to fight in small wars so

it's based on economic power and how you use this economic power. >> do you believe most of the leaders that you talk to when you travel around the world believe that while we're coming out of a recession, it will be a while before we get back to the kind of growth that we had before the recession? >> i see -- >> for europe and the united states especially. >> yeah, in europe and the united states, i just want you to say, i think we have to recognize that we have sinned in the past and we have to pay for those sins. and the surprise will be no growth for seven or 10 years in order to clean up our balance sheet on a initial level, on a corporate level, on households but we should not forget that we have still 2 billion people in the world who want to share the

same economic standards as we have. and i think they will be a strong driving factor for economic -- >> rose: and offer huge markets. >> exactly. so, see, art on a global level, and of course we have national strings but the art on a global level will be hard to stimulate. it is hidden. treasure tragedy for economic development. not only economic development but we have an obligation to lift those people out of poverty. >> in china, for example, experience in china the largest number of people ever because of their own numbers of people starting to come open in the new markets and it would be demanding that globalization continue to be a huge force and

trade in the economic portion of countries. >> i sometimes hear degloballization, those words, but it's a little bit like going back to the 19th industry. you cannot stop globalization. you cannot stop globalization. what you have to do is make sure that we structure globalization in such a way that, let's say the balance which we have now, also new structure which comes out of globalization is to the benefit of everybody, and i believe it's not -- i think everybody can win out of globalization if we follow the

right policies. >> and have some respect for the sovereignty and the local conditions and the local culture that you are coming into. >> exactly. >> so there's not some sense of -- that's why a dialogue and multicultural exchange is so important. >> it also play's role in doing what other people are doing and the kinds of problems that they face as well and it's a place to shares the possibility of solutions? >> exactly. for example, for next year, when you look at the most successful countries, we do a competitiveness report and among the first 10 there's always scandinavian countries and it's interesting, people speak about europe as a lost case. but actually, we are home also for some of the most successful countries. >> >> rose: why sit and the

scandinavian countries, what are they doing to make them that successful? >> i think there are two or three reasons. one is that they have always followed a policy of what i would call non-exuberance so they were always reasonable as far as salary and top secretaries and, second, it's social inclusion. i think they make sure that the gap between the rich and the poor -- >> and the social compact with everybody. >> the social compact was still working and finally, i think real important is gender equality, equity, or egality, which mean that you have probably a more compassionate value system in society. >> how has the level of participation by women at the world check foreare you familiar changed? >> we put special emphasis and we publish every year the report

where we measure gender pairity around the world. it's slowly going up we do everything i will give you a particular example. we have now a quota imposed on our members, if they want to send multiple participants, which we do not like to see normally, but by multiple i mean one of those has to be a leader. >> so you have seen them rise. you have seen the clinton initiative is here. >> yes. >> many institutions are beginning to have series of conferences. what separates in your own mind the world economic forum from a range of other conferences that take place around the world throughout the year? >> first, i would say some --

because we need dialogue in the world. if you want to make progress, particularly in a situation where you have in many countries the feelings of society is more and more polarized, you need the dialogue and you need to better understand the opinions and ideas of the people around yourself and if i say around yourself in our context, it means the countries around yourself. now what makes this different is it is a confluence, a community of people who are engaged in what we are doing. it's a membership organization and, you know, charlie, when you come to dabos, it's a special atmosphere because people know each other, they share, they are

a community of shared purpose and the purpose is encapsulated in our mission to improve the state of the world. >> why did you decide on dabos as the location? >> it's a global village. we can't want to be in a city like new york or whatever it is. we wanted to really be in a place where two things happened. first, nobody is distracted by nightclubs or business appointments and, second, dabos is an equalizer. you have practically god old swiss hotels do not compare with -- you don't get the luxury suites, so everybody is equal. and i think this creates this very special atmosphere which you can only find in dabos. >> and the corporate sponsorship

has grown each year? >> we have at the moment waiting list and i think that is a response. >> talk about leadership. you came out of this way back when as a professor of business, correct, and management? >> yes. >> how has management changed? how has business leadership changed over the years: let me maybe first define how i see leadership because there are so many books and so many different issues. for me it's very simple. i think i know practically all leaders in the world. if i had to define a leader, i would say he needs brains, heart, soul, and good nerves. what does it mean? brains? he has to be a professional. he has to know his area. second, soul. i think he has to have objectives and visions and pursue vigorously those projections or his vision. and finally, heart.

he has to be passionate and compassionate. and of course today you need good nerves. those four elements are essential. is you can have different styles but everybody whom i would consider to be a good leader -- >> of all of the people that come to dabos or all the people you have known who didn't come to dabos, who reflects those the best. >> i think without a doubt, mandela. >> certainly heart and soul. >> certainly soul and certainly heart. he is a professional, a professional politician, i mean, he is a political -- he has good nerves, very good discipline and so on, so likely, the former prime minister, bob but there are fewer and fewer of such

people. >> fewer and fewer? why is that? >> i think the main deficiency when we look at the heart and soul, but instead we find, and i understand it, the population has become more demanding. you so look much more at the electorate compared to before. which means, instead of following your compass and your vision, you have to send out radar signals to see what is the public opinion. and i think that's the danger that more soul vision values part, sacrificed through the short-term interest. >> rose: at this time at the meeting that is taking place

while you're here to receive an award from the atlantic council, there's talk of the millennium goals and they're bind in reaching the goals in attacking worldwide poverty. is the private sector an ngo's, are ngo's doing all they can do in order to shorten that gap, in order to narrow that gap? >> you can never do enough. and i think of course we haven't reached the objectives, but quite remarkable event, i'm a big believer, when we talk about nbo's, i'm a big believer in social entrepreneurship and i have the second -- you know, really, to solve all of those issues, individuals who have the courage to engage and to provide that in the grass roots level in

terms of creating better conditions for women or education or health or whatever it is, i think that that is the best way. and we have to support more social -- >> describe social entrepreneurship. it's using lessons of a private sector to attack problems. exactly. >> and create a bit for people and access to the capitalistic world. >> and it may be for profit pour not for profit. it's the motivation behind it. >> rose: the idea of microfinancing, has that continued to have an impact around the world? >> i think, yes. and by the way, when we look at my co-credits, it was invented, if i may say so, 30 years ago. for 20 years, nobody spoke about it or -- >> i would give living money to women in bangladesh. that's the reason i created this

foundation, to make sure ideas interest better replicated on a global level. >> are you optimistic that we have the political will and the talent and the resources to deal with a huge problems that we face today? you could despair, and particularly if you think that we will still to the world's population see an equivalent of china plus probably other countries so you see the issues that we face if you look -- what i'm afraid, this is a complexity of problems. we have identified 78 different global challenges. that's one factor. the other factor is the time

compression. so some people say that we have to digest as much change in 10 years dpird generations in a hundred years. now how politicians cope with the fast-changing world, with the complexity with an electorate which becomes more and more conservative and wants to preserve what they have, that's the challenge that we have. >> the best leadership that i know has the capacity to level and have, you know, a conversation with those people it wants to lead. it's the ability to take complex issues so that the vast may not of people can understand of what is at stake for them and what is the challenge for them as participants in the process. >> i fully agree. i think we have now a tendency where politicians have a tendency to simplify the issues

instead of being straightforward and trusting the people they're trying to lead. >> i would say political leadership today is educational -- >> it's great to have you here. >> thank you.