rose: welcome to our program. we begin this evening talking about the presidential election and the effort to start a third party. it is called americans elect. we're joined by khalil byrdand elliot ackerman. >> the only barrier to entry is ballot access. it's not money. it's not talent. it's not political organization. it's actually that the two-party system has a stranglehold on ballot access and it takes a lot of resources to get on the ballot. it's too late for an individual-- almost too late for an individual-- to make the decision to allocate the millions of dollars. >> 2012 is a change election, and the change that americans are hungering isn't necessarily a new person but a new way of electing our leaderes, a way that's not anchored in the ideology of the far right and

the far left that continually seems to come up short when it comes to finding authentic viewings to the problems we're facing. >> rose: we conclude with a putting lesson from the great golfer dave stockton. >> most of you when you putt and look at a line you're generally going to look as if you're shooting a rifle at it. up to the make it, you're going ing to try to make it and generally you'll miss it low every time. it as important in follow-through as a free-throw. i think the follow-through in putting is crucial. it doesn't have to be much but if it can rollit. the goal for me it sotee the ball roll over that st. by the te it rolls over it i know it's going to go into the hole. >> rose: third parties an great putting when we continue.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from o studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

>> rose: khalil byrd and elliotackerman, the c.e.o. and coo of americans elect. their goal is to put a nonpartisan candidate on the ballot for the 2012 election through an open and online collection. they're hoping to be in all 50 states by 2012. i am pleased to have them here at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you for having us. >> rose: tell me about the third way. what is it? >> americans elect are going to be inviting every voter in the united states to participate in a nominating process to put a third ticket, a nonpartisan ticket on the ballot in all 50 states. it's happening right now, and even in so much as todae can say we're on our ninth state, which is utah. people are coalescing around the idea this cycle that we could pick a and the not a party and see governance occur that isn't

necessarily tied to the interest tofhe far right or the far left. that's what we're doing in americans elect, creating a pathway for an independent candidate to emerge. >> rose: mao do you get on the ballots in the 50 states? >> you do it the hard way. people stand outside of grocery stores asking, "would you like to seen alternive on the ballot in 2012?" when we started we didn't know how many people would actually sign up. seven out of 10 people invery statfrom california to michigan to ohio to florida were on the ballot or getting on the ballot in california, have affirmed what theye looking for at this time when 81% of the people in the country are saying th they're not satisfied with their governance in washington, that they will sign, more than two million of them, to put this organization on the ballot. >> rose: when will you select a candidate? >> mid-december. our delegates and any american voter can be a delegate. americanselect.org, will be able to come to our site as well as the candidates and compete for

the 50-state ballot access. in the past we all had pattern recognition where we'd look at a third candidate and it's always an individual who has the resources to surmountll of these obstacles, these baiers to entry for the 50-state ballot access. we're taking care of that and for other first time ever we're inviting ever re than to participate nipawn party nomination. >> rose: does it require a lot of money? >> it does. more than $30 million, half of it goes to ballot access. the rest goes to building the web site technology, as elliot described, a journey that candidates and any registered voter in america will take as the nominating process which ha already begun, happens at americanselect. the org. americans elect is democrats, republicanes, independentes, the greatest minds i technology, politics and business coming together at this int on the calendar to say what we've seen from the primary system, which makes candidates run inauthentically, isn't enough. and as americans are paying

attention for the first time this year this cycle to who they want to choose, they're not satisfied with having just three people. >> rose: the idea i think is you're suggesting in the two political parties, the people who get out and vote are the activistand they represent at least center extreme of their party. >> well, there's a narrowing group of people who are unrepresentative, but the people aren't the problem. it's the special interest. it's the money. it's the process which forces the candidate to make a decision like a chr crist christie to make a decision because of an arbitrary ballot access rule in florida. what if you took the cendar and reimagined it. what if you allowed people to run, from as we do, december to june, being able to instead of tether to the wings of their party talk authentically about what they care about. at a time with we're seeing an unfortunate predictable failure of the super committee having a candidate come out and talk authentically about what ty carebout and the concerns of e americanpeople, which inudes jobs, how we're going to wind down the wars in

afghanistan and iraq -- >> you don't think the president is talking about that? >> i think it's dill in this environment where there are some things-- for example, recently on the republican side, the things that are important, but the discussion that we've been having doesn't create a job. and certainly people have seen a failure of governance in shington that they are absolutely unsatisfied with, and they're looking for alternatives. they're looking for some people or some one -- >> the complaint seems to be-- correct me if i'm wrong-- that the idea of a grand bargain, the idea of cooperation simply is not happening. >> i think it's not happening. we can look at the super commtee-- and -- >> the debt ceiling and a whole range of things that came out of that. >> exactly. khalil hit it on the head-- it's predictable failure in our government. fundamental to what we're could go in americans elect is we're in a situation where we have the tyranny of the minority over the jority because is a minority amount of american voters who get to decide who our candidates are going to be, what the field is, because it's a minority o

american voters who are able to participate in our primary system. fundamental to what we're could go is the idea that if you can change the way we nominate our leaderes, ultimately, you can change the way that they govern. if you open that process up for more americans to participate, we're going to hav a more stable governance andmore stable solutions and that's not what we're seeing right now. we don't have a shortage of talented and capable people in this country. the problem is the system they come into disincentvises cooperation. >> the only barrier to ery is ballot access. it's not money, it's not talent, it's not political organization. it's actually that the two-party system has a ranglehold on ballot access and it takes a lot of resources to get on the ballot. it's too late for an individu-- almost too late-- for an individual to make the decision to allocate the millions of dollars so american elect is doing that that. and once you take away the barriers to access, people have the opportunity to open up their minds to candidates who could be

running over the next several months. >> rose: why whereis the money coming from to fund this effort? >> we've had almost 4,000 small donors come. let's be honest, the seed financing comes from 50 people who have made the decision to make loans to this organization. every dollar above $10,000 has been given as a loan and the goal is by the time we get to the end of 2012 no one will have funded this project for more than $10,000. we think right now it's time for candidates and american people to grab hold of this particular vehicle. remember what the irastructure is, it is 50-state ballot access and the first-ever nominating convention online. and with that, americans elects steps back and the candidate has the opportunity to ste forward in the general ection. >> rose: who are those donors? >> they are people emerging at their own pace-- peter ackerman is one of them, our chairman, and he is joined by 50 others who made the decision to fund this organizatio >> rose: you know where there is going, there is clearly a suggesti that if you want to be reform, if you want to

practice new politices, you ought set as a tenet of that, ansparency, and you're not prepared to go there yet. >> sure. let me touch on that point. the funding that goes to americans elect goes to 50-state ballot access and this platform. any candidate that comes to americans elect is going to file with the f.c.c., the exact same disclosure policies apply. americans elect is basically just removing this barrier to entry. that's the only thing. we're not advocating for any issue. we don't advocate for any candidacy. we are removing the barrier to entry so an authentic independent candidate can erge and competen an equal playing field. >> rose: let me ask one more time and in this way-- what do you have to lose by releasing the names of these donors lending this money to get this thing under way? >> many of the folks who came to is early, many are starting to disclose at their own pace. there's obviously the fear that there's going to be some type of

retribution. if there is somebody prominent in public life and they have the ability to come forward at their own pace. many of them are goi to com forward and many of them already have. if you go to our site, you can see we have a continual stream on or donor our donor page everybody who has contributed money to theamericans elect, the 50-state ballot access and listing the reasons why they're getting involved. >> rose: these are the kind of comments you get, tom friedman, said american elect will do what amazon did to bookes, what the ipod did to musics, and what drugstore.com did to pharmacies. >> he's very kind. >> rose: fervently believe in the ideal we-- then there's al hunt, a wise political observer who writes for bloomberg says america elect isab idea whose time has not come and may never despite the understandable public revulsion with the political leaders. one problem is that it is

top-down. all throws from there. if fundamental change is the purpose, the emphasis arguably should be on a bottom-up approach to building local candidates and grass-roots infrastructure that subsequently could support a serious presidential run. >> well, when mr. hunt wrote that, it was back in august. let's look at everything that's changed. you know, 30 months ago, the ipad didn't exist, the tea party didn't exist, occupy wall street didn't exist. i would put forward the idea that 2012 is a change election and the change americans are hungering isn't necessarily a new person but a new way of electing our leaderes, a way that's not anchored in the ideology of the far right and the far left that ntinually seems to come up short when it comes to finding authentic soluons to the problems that we're facing and that's what americans elect ofrs. we invite every american voter to participate. go to americanselect.org, take a look around, and i think folks will like what they see. >> rose: why notfocus on

electing state legislatures. >> we have to start somewhere. there is an opportunity in 2014 and 2016 to be on the ballot at that time. the innovations we're talking about will express themselveses in the presidential campaign can roll down. but i think the more important thick is americans are demanding it now. they're demanding change now, and they're looking at the presidential leadership, and the opportunity in this campaign, as a chance for us to open up a system and a conversation that isn't being had right now in washington. they would like-- and millions of them at this point have come to americanselect.org, almost 3,000 people have signed up as volunteers for the organization, one representing every state district from the country. what they'rey demand regular candidates who are krun and willing to express things th're concerned about and run authentically, not only in this process -- >> name me five names that might fithat bill. >> we have one discipline. we try not to name names.

>> rose: we got that. >> it is simply because we don't support candidacy. we don't advocate issues. we're simply a vehicle and a vessel. but kind of people who can express leadership here roughly have the backgrounds othe 44 previous presidents, people who are current or sitting governors, senats, people running -- >> okay, that says something. you're lookingor people that have proven themselveses in business or politics or science or education or-- >> they're the ones who are naturally should be drawn to this and see the opportunity. they're the ones who the american people will be willing to listen to as we go forward in terms of express leadership, not only where they've been but in terms of running for president. >> announcer: think they may be attracted to doing this rather than seeking the precedency in their own political party if they are a governor or senator. >> if you look at the polls, the american people are simply not satisfied with-- if you say charitably the four choices they have right now, left in the race. and they are looking for an opportunity to vote for somebody

authentically, and the barrier to entry is simply ballot access, and americans elect is designed to take care of that problem and with that, the american people can step forward and begin to imagine a leader who can talk and speak authentically. >> rose: let's assume all this happens and yohave a leader and a candidate and a platform that's popular, that reaches the 20% that's in the center. i believe that's number that's in the center. and e election is thrown into the house of representatives. is that what would happen? >> well, at americans elect, what we have is that the election gets thrown to the house of representatives, one of the ino vagues we have with our technology is we can convene our group of delegation. we'll be able to convene those consultation and they'll be able-- if the americans elect ticket would be minority ticket, they would hold a convention assuming they have enough electors to break the tie and decide which way those electors would go, to the republican or democrat.

again, this just builds in the idea it's changing the incentive structure in ourovernments. right now we have an incentive structure with reaching acrs the political space is punished. this changes so that in that scenario, charlie, whoever that individual would be u would see a competition of ideasin the middle space of politics. i don't think it's a centrist place. let's look at the major pieces of legislation. soci security, medicare, those were all put forward with majorities of the minority. and r uwhat americans are seek, isn't necessarily centrist solutions but stable solutions. >> rose: most people view, for example, if you take economic issues, most people believe that the grand bargain that was talked about by the president and speaker boehner, most people believe that simpson-bowles was a centrist solution. believe that would be a better way to go than anything that's happened so far, as i suspect you do. >> sure. i don't-- >> we're saying the same thing. it's not necessarily-- the

semantics, a stable solution. les look right now. the american people are hungering for mething that they can hang their hat on so the people sitting here without a job our small businesses trying to make decisions can actually make these decision in an environment that's stable and we don't have that. what we have is the continual and predictable failure of our government to govern. >> rose: i think they-- i think they're looking for leadership and bold leadership. >> i wld agree with that, true. >> that's true. charlie, all the things that you named, whether simpson-bowles, or the grand bargain, they can't get off the tarmac. the reality is this presidential nominee will have the opportunity to create new coalitions, allow people to come forward based on a new set of idea, sometimeses that have been committeed for a long period of time. sometimes ideas will be originated by them, all of which are pointed towardctually solving the problems that americans think are important. that is simply not happening right now. and this week proves it measure anything else. >> rose: you believe we'd be

better watch a parliamentary system? >> no, absutely not. we live in a two-party country. the two parties have served us extraordinarily well, and as a matter of fact, the people who are working inside the syst are goodeople who want america to move forward. what's happening right now is the system itself 100 years old this year is t serving us well because it's captured too much by the special interests and being pulled to the wings. not allowing anyone to come through d run and talk, speak thentically about what they care about. >>ose: david brooks said everybody is looking for the election to somehow sort this out. but the election ast stands now, the competition between republicans and democrats and the great issues will not be solved by this election. >> we saw this in the 2008 cycle is that it was a change election. the 2010 cycle was also a change ecti. what it shows is there's real dissatisfaction amongst the electorate in solutions, and they're oscillating wildly. david brook's piece he put out this week was the idea that you

really have two minority parties now existing. and if we look at that the polling playing ( applause ) that out. 44% of americans self-identify as independence. all those individuals when it comecomes to how we pick our lds for the most part are left out in the cold. we need to reimagine the way we elect leaders and democracy. >> rose: your strategist is doug shoal. he suppted llary clinton in the 2008 primary system election. he is now calling for-- or has suggested that perhaps the president should step aside for hillary clinton to be the nominee. >> i think what he's talking about is bringing fresh ought, fresh ideas to a system that -- >> you mean not necessarily-- it was just to bring fresh ideas. it wasn't because he wants to see his candidate who lost be the nominee. >> i can't-- i can't advocate for doug one way or the other in terms of whether he tnks secretary clinton should run for prident. >> rose: in 2012. >> the reason why he has come to th project is the reason democrates, republica, and

independents of all stripes have come to the project. what we've been doing, which is basically as elliot talked about, oscillating between one side and the other with some courageous choices made by the republicans last cycle, advocating from president obama, isn't working right now. and so a lot of us, more than 6,000 people who have worked on this project, the two million people who signed our petitions, the 1.5 million people who come to the americans elect web site are advocating for is a subtle shift, an adjustment in the way we think about nominating our presidential candidates. >> rose: everybody from the tea party to occupy wall street believe it's not working. the american people clearly believe the system is not working because they don't see any-- any movement in terms of solving the problems that they think are at the core of the untry's dilemma. >> and so we simplify the problem. the problem is not identifying more of the problem of our advocacy. we have a river of advocacy flowing through washington. the problem is actually that od people can't get on the ballot. and americans elect is taking care of that and offering up the

first-ever online nominating convention where democrats, republicans, and independents do not have to give up their ideological standpoint. they actually have a responsibility in this process to shape the rules, pick the candidates, and the nominees, and go through the process and advocating for what they think we should do to push america forward. >> rose: let me make sure i understandhis before we go. your earlier point if in fact there is a candidate and the candidate does 20%, say. so, therefore, you have this election that is thrown into the house of representatives. >> yup. >> rose: how will y avoid the house deciding that? >> and let's say that that 20% leads to electoral votes. that means nobody gets to 270? our body of delegates will be able to convene between the general election and the convening of the electoral college and they will be able to determine through the electors that have come up through americans elect who those

electors would suprt, the republican or democratic nominee. and the competition between the republican and democratic nominee for the presidency would now hinge on the area of debate that isn't out here at the exemes but is in in this middle space for stable governance -- >> but you're saying to mehose members of the house who will vote are obligated -- what are they obligated to do? >> it would never go to the useless because the electors that are americans elect electors would support the republican or democratic nominee as determined by the delegates to give them the 270. so it will never go to the house. >> you can tie a b on it. rose: tie a bow on it? >> more competition is good. more competition in terms of right now, when we're talking about puing candidates in, competition for ideas between the general election and when the electorates vote to make sure people are represented. >> rose: who has endorsed this? >> if you look at our board of advisers and directores, former

governor christie todd whitman, president obama's director of national intelligence. you will see individuals like judge wer.bste who has worked in every single administration since the ford administration. >> rose: thank you. >> thank you for having us. >> rose: elliotackerman, khalil byrd, thank you. >> rose: dave stockton is here. he is, as you know, a rmer professorolfer who won 25 times in this tour. he won two p.g.a. championship. he has become the world's most sought-after puttingbs instruct, tiger woods, phil hrscohee avmekels and others have come to mto to fix theiputting upon. i am pleased to have him here at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: there's not a man alive or woman alive who plays this game who doesn't need help with theirutting, fair to say? >> yes, very definitely. >> rose: what's the key? >> i basically look at golf as

being two different games. i think if you're right-handed you're going to hit all your shots, with the exception of putts and low chip shots, which i think are left-handed. your left-hand shouldn't break down, but most people, they kind of make like putting a miniature part of the game and constantly twitch it with their right hand and it's not good. >> rose: it's your left-hand. >> left hand goes to the hole. >> rose: left hand determines the direction and re of the green? >> the direction that you want to go. it's similar to someone shooting a basketball a they say they're right-handed and they shoot with their right hand. they're not thinking their left hand is going there every time or you will shoot it like shaq. you have the direction and the feel and you'r asking to putt much better. >> rose: when someone like roy mcelroy comes to you, what's wrong with his putting? >> nothing really physical. i watched the masters. i thought he had a bad pairing

wi cabrera-- cabrera is a great guy, but he plays very, very fast. there's nobody behind him and they're playing fastnd ty have to slow down and wait and juan of wait and they hit another shot and wait and wait, got way out of rhythm. when we talked to quill hollow, i told him, number one, i love your putting. if anything you go too fast and he's one out of 100. most people under pressure slow down. in fact, that leads me, charlie, the first thing i would have you do is sign your signature passion you would on a check and write below and look at it and try to do it aga slowly and duplicate it, you have no chance. because you write in your subconscious. it's just-- you just do it without thinking. as soon as you think about it, even your signature is not going to come out right. >> rose: in fact ta dramatic coach i know would have actors walk around and he would watch the way they walked, and then he would say, "think about something, not walking." and once they thought about something not walking, knowing that he was look at them, their

walk would become much more graceful and even. >> it would flow. >> rose: because they weren't,ing about walking. >> you see it. you see it in our sports. snead with three to go augusta, and his pace slows down. >> rose: he can't recreate the routine? >> yeah, but he's taking more time. in the time it took him to regroup and get set, it's more time to have negative this get up in youread. that's the biggest thing. we can fix someone's physical stroke but you don't know what's going on between-- it's like a ess game between yourself and this game. it has to happen. it has to flow. it can't be something contrived and trying. >> rose: how was it you came to focus on putting and understand that putting for you was more important than drying? >> well, ihurt my back when i was 15, a surng acciden

and i couldn't hit the ball anywhere and i wasn't very accurate. and it became very apparent-- my love has always been from 150 yards in. kind of like a mickelson. you see a shot and you're more intrigued by something, there's trouble and you get yourself out of it. i always had a next for putting and didn't know it. the first year you didn't average eight or nine greens a round but i averaged 26 putts a ruined and hung on. >> i was missing the green and chipping up and having short putts. it was something i developed. people have trials, yes, it's fine to hit ball 100 miles, but scing is part of the game, and over half the me is what you do around the greens. >> re: so you walk up to a putt. what are you thinking? >> i'm going to make it. no matter where it is. >> rose: you visualize make it? >> yes, and that's biggest thing. we're in this craze right n where people have go to long

putters and all the others, it's the routine that's the thing. you will find your signature realizing you want to have it free and easy and not try. the second thing we do is put you on a putt 12, feetnd i want to see what your routine is. the normal routine would be to walk down your line and come back. i picked a putt on purpose that has a big break. i want them to go the low side. you don't read a book tilted away from y. you read it tilted right at you so you can see it. i want to see what this break is. i basically divide a putt in the thirds. if it's a 15 footer i'm interested in the last five feet because that's where the ball is going the slowest. my dad when he taught me wanted me tbe super aggressive. gressive to my farther was never leave a putt short but never knock a putt more than 17, 18 inches past. that way you never three-putt it. >> rose: it's easy to say

that, never leave it short, never leaf it more than 17 inches past but it's hard to make sure you have that kind of control over distance. >> not necessarily. i mn, t do that, just stick a tee in the grnd. don't putt to a hole and see how close you can end up on that tee. get the feeling. i'm standing at the side and looking at the break, i'm literall visualizing how much break i'm going to play predicat on the ball going maybe 12 inch past the hole. fihit too hard and it goes two feet past i'm probably going to miss it hi because i rolled it harder than you meant to. >> rose: lk throughhe routine. that's part of routine. now you're getting ready to stroke. >> yes. >> rose: tell me what you were thinking then and doing then and what your concentration is about, if anything. >> oh, absolutely. concentration is on the line. i go back behind the ball.

now the majority of people, rory didn't do this, but most people do, they want to take a couple of practice strokes. which means as they are walking behind the ball, co up to the ball, they've swung to the left if they're right-handed. they talk up to it, take a couple of pract strokes, and walk into it. they are focusing on the ball. that would be li somebody throwing a dart and the dart board is it out here and the bull's eye and they're worrying about what their hand is doing. it doesn't me any sense. my routine starts when i crouch down behind it, maybe four steps behind the ball or so, stand up, i e the entire line. let's say it's a six-inch putt, breaking in about 4:00. i take a couple of steps. i've already taken a practice stroke with my right hand, the putter is in the left. i now see the last half of the putt, no longer see the front part. now when i come by the ball, i put my right ot about approximately where it's going to endp, and i put the putter down. i put it ahead of the ball.

most people put it behind it. t it on the ground and i look at the hole when i set my left foot. now, this is huge because i am looking out he as i set my feet so my eyes line me up. in fact, wh happens, a lot of times, once somebody does this for the first time, they'll be looking at the hole and i'll hold their head. and i'll say are you looking at the hole, and you're lined up? they'll y yes. you'll be surprised how manies they make it. they haven't looked back to the ball. they've visualized with their eyes, they've locked it in, and they go right ahead. what i do is i putt putter down. i bring the butter back to the ball, look one last time. i come back to the ball. in reality i'm coming back to a spot, maybe an inch, two inches in front of it. i don't ever see the ball. i'm about ready to roll a ball that means me winni a tournament and i never see the ball. i come back to the spot two inches ahead and my whole world,

the back of my left hand not breaking dowand roll the ball over tha spot. what that accomplished, maybe you don't,but the person standing next to you, probably, as soon as the putter touches the ball trecoils back, it jerks up, it does all sorts of things. it's like the same way as this graphs water. it's heavy. it doesn't weigh anything. sos important as the follow-through is in a freethrow or throwing a dart, the follow-through, i think the follow-through in putting is crucial. it doesn't have to be much but if it can roll it, and the goal for me is see the ball roll over that spot. by the time it rolls over it, i know it's going to go in the hole. my son ronnie who works for a lot of the l.p.g.a. girls, and helped me with some of the p.g.a. guys as well, likes to have them say yes or no. as soon as it goes over, yes or no. a lot of times it didn't feel quite right and they say no, ball still goes in because they haven't moved. but a lot of what we're doing,

we're trying-- we don't want to make it mechanical. and that's what the people have to understand is that this is all by routineand faster is better than slowe >> rose: contrast that, say, with a four iron or five iron in terms of what you're,ing about, in terms of the mechanics. you do want mechanics in an iron play, don't you? >> absolutely. like i'm saying, putting and low chip shots, i'll say 30, 40 yards. to me that's left hand. everything else is right hand. i go from a six iron in to a scoring club. i'm expecting to get it clos for me, anything inside 20 feet that i'm expecting to make -- >> if it's a six iron or less yobelieve most of the time you'll come within 20 feet of the flag. >> absolutely. >> more or less. with with a four iron or five iron, i'm not quite as critical. it's a longerhot. i'm making sure i keep it between the center of the green and the pin. it's a longer shot.

once i get down to the score putt, highly-- by the time you get to a nine iron you want to get the thing inside 15 foot if not 10 and wedges inside 10. once your putting gets better it doesn't make any difference how close you are because you're going to make them. that washe key thing with phil when we worked before he won the tour championship. >> rose: before that he was doing terrible-- >> he made 13 putts all year over 20 feet. >> rose: 13 over 20 feet all year. >> and this is-- he had quick looks . >> rose: did h spend a week with you? >> two days. thursday, friday prior. >> rose: what did you do in the two days? >> his routine was to circle the hole completely. he had six one-success looks at the hole and i knew he was going through the motions. i said phil, i wantehim to put the putt youer down, look at the hole and set his feet, which he did. i said i want you to look at the

hole for six, seven, eight seconds. what i saw in the first round in atlanta a week later, twice, on a 12-footer and give-foot in the first round, he's looking at it, sets his feet, and about the time i think he's going to come back to putt it he moves around again but heoesn't take his eye off the hole and made both putts. i asked him that night what, did you do? he said i could ll i was open on one and closed on the other and he made both putts. it was perfect. because he was visual. people get wrapped up in doing routines and think they're physically going to do this part of the game, and i think it's completely backwards. >> rose: phil is very open to instruction, isn't he. he had you, butch harmon, dave peles. he seems to be a guy receptive to somebody telling him about his game to make it better. >> yeah, and h likes to tweak what you tell him. he's very-- he seeks knowledge, let's put it that way. peles and i are too different spectrums. butch is handling the long game. >> rose: how are you and dave

two different spectrums? >> dave is very mechanical, more mcal. i think he's brilliant with some of the things he showed phil with the short game, the iron shots. and i still think one of the greatest shots i ever saw was phil at the masters when he eagled 13 or 14, and he hooke it-- or he sliced it on 15 and couldn't go for the green and had to way lay-up and hit the wedge like this. when he had to lay up, i'm like you watch. this is a chance to make three and almost did. the drills dave has work with, with phil are brilliant. >> only have people practice with two because. i detest having a circle of balls arnd the hole i want it to be natural. i want to just get up and let it go. that's what i do. i practice with two balls. i'll practice two from 40 feet and the next two might be from 10 or 15 breaking different ways. i have to use my imagination. >> rose: in 2008 you wrote the following ruleses, 10 rules for-- number one, "take try out

of the equation. >> absolutely. >> rose: speak to that? >> just sign your own signature. you won't think a thing. right below it, try to duplicate it. you won't be able to do the first two letters. if you go slowly and in myas ce, look how i do the "d," ian't do the ""d"" right. when you teach people, do you want to learn to putt with your first signature or second? everybody will say their first. there's no trying. >> rose: think speed more than line. >> that's the 18 inches pas never short but get it there. >> rose: three, stay away from dead straight. >> uh-hu if i play a dead straight into this, there's the middle. and i've got aboutan inch and a quarter on both sides. but if i can figure out which way, if it goes very slowly, ich way it breaks, let say it breaks left, i now have almost three inches to work wh when you have an error and a half. >> rose: number four, you've already made the putt.

>> psychologists will tell you, you're not going to succeed at anything if you don't think you've already done it. you picture yourself as the ball going in the hole and you just let it go. >> rose: be a painter not a carpenter. >> absolutely. well, people they say, "boy he really released the putter well." that bothers the heck out of me. that's like taking a hammer putting a nail on the wall and wallop it. i talk about a paint brush because to me a putting stroke is mainly just making a stripe. you're rolling it. we don't use the word "try" and we don't use the word "hit." he want to use the word "feel" and the word "roll." it's totally cinch. >> rose: feel and roll? >> yes. >> rose: your last thought, none at all. >> just get up and let it go. you've already made it, whatever it is. and it's not-- there's nothing serious. it's not cance it's nothing that's terrible. you're just going to get up and

enjoy it. it's going to go in. >> rose:umber 7, getour es over the ball. >> most people tend to be away from the ball. it's like a miniature golf shot, which the ball is played out away from you, which kind of lets the right hand what it wants to do. i like to bring it ose. if people want to watch a good puttfully this day and age, take a look at steve stricter. >> rose: we'll come to who are the great putters of all time in a minute. number eight, focus on thefirst inch. >> that's the spot. >> rose: nine, forget about bad greens. >> bad greens are kind of cool because it'sot your fault. some of the best greens i play on, firestone doms mind real quick, most any golf course in chicago which has brilliant greens, a lot of them up here, if you miss it, i don't like to blame myself. on those kind of golf courses,

guyberry used to laugh at me in the cbs golf classics because i would go berserk if i hadn't made anything in the first five, six holes. if the greens aren't very good, there's your excuse. >> rose: number 10, take advice with a grain of salt. what does that mean? >> well, to me, my dad was my only teacher. now my son ron is my only teacher. my dad passed away in '83. and everybody wants to give you their best tip, their newest tip, that worked for them. i n't think it should be that complicated. one of the greatest things i ever learned was byron nelson at the masters and i asked him in '45 when he won the 18 tournaments, 11 in a row, what he thought about and he got a smile on his face and said, "de, before i nt out to california i was practicing and und something that felt good in my swing and used one swing thought throughout the entire year." there isn't a person stening

that has less than 10 at t present time. >> rose: what was that one swing thought? >> i didn't ask him because it didn't pertain to me. he went to the range to loosen up his arms and shoulders and gs and went to the green with his one swing thought and that was it. >> rose: what are your swing thoughts? >> more than that because my swing wasn't as good as his. but i was putting. there's the hole and let it go. >> rose: tell me the great putters of all time in golf. >> i think in the old days bobby lock. i remember watching billy casper, one of the best. totally different, popped the ball, but unbelievably good. my e ben crenshaw was brilliant. >> rose: penic taught him that? >> i think so. there's penic teaching both tom kite and ben crenshaw, totally differt swings, totally different demeanors, showing you that there's not one way to teach golf. ere are different things. lauren roberts is probly one

of the better right now and i already mentioned steve stricter. >> rose: roary? >> roary is unbelievable. rory i really like. i like his demeanor. he remains calm. he doesn't take any practice strokes, anyway. he slows down, visualize, take your time, enjoy the six- or seven-foot walk up to the ball because you know it's going in. you could just see the light bulb go on. it was great. >> rose: tiger hang some trouble with his putting. what does he need? >> trying right now is trying very hard and i think that's problem. i think-- again, it's got to be in your subconscious. he's working real hard on working on changing his swing, doing whatever he's doing to get it right. he's going to be fine as soon as he gets up between his ears and just plays. the putting, i just think he's thinking about so many different facets to the game because it's so far removed from what he wass of a few years ago he's not comfortable.

i promise you, if you're thinking really hard out there, you're thinking like an amateur. you just have to let it go. >> rose: but take a guy that was as good as he was. he's had some injuries, that makes a difference. >> yes. >> rose: but you would think he could get it in his head. somehow- it's an enormous amount of pressure to play golf but played it at the highest leve you would think somehow there's some kind of psychologist, some kind of friend, some kind of somebody that could say exactly what you just said. do you clean out-- >>ell, i mean, his life is obviously totally changed. you know, my wif kathy, and i have been on tour 47 years, and it was a team effort. he had a team effort that got destroyed. now, you can-- we're very selfish as players. we have to be. we have to be self-centered. it's "eye" it's not a team. but when it's a team it's much easier. his team has shrunk, and his team has changed leaders. you know, teachers and all this stuff. >> rose: caddies.

>> caddies. all sorts of stuff has changed and that changes the dynamics. it's not just go out. i mean, you know, i-- you know, i hope he gets it back. >> rose: when you see him on the practice green or see him on the course, do you think-- what does it look like? does it look like somebody trying too hard? i think he's still on the green thinking about what he just did on the shot coming into t green. that's what i'm saying. his mind is real busy. in a four-hour round you have a lot of time for your mind to shifgears and go back and forth in different places. if we watch rory, it was pretty obvious between what tiger said after the masters and what rory mcelroy said after the masters after he had self-destructed and shot over 80, he was very intuitive. he was unbelievably good in his comment. >> rose: mate for somebody his age. >> absolutely. and tiger wa very, very harsh. that delves into a person's soul. that's why rory came roaring back at e u.s. open there,

congressional, he had gotten over it. a lot of the press was waiting for the collapse to come but it wasn't coming. >> rose: he was very mature about how to recover. >> absolutely. very definitely. >> rose: who is the best swing you ever saw? who had it? i mean, was it snead? >> i would say snead or byron nelson. >> rose: both of those two. >> absolutely. in my era i would say littler or giber. >> rose: let's take snead and byron nelson. what did they have? what was it about that swing? >> truth throw, i think they're just extremely athletic. sam snead has been compared to mickey mantle. just perfect athletes. he's totally double jointed. i saw snead get mad at greensboro, and grab -- >> which he won like a bunch of times. >> i saw him grab a doorjamb, turn himself upside down and slam his feet through an

acoustical tile ceiling put his feet on the ground-- tiles coming down everywhere-- and he's just venting off steam. i thought if i did that i'd probably fallol my head and kill myself. in answer to your question, they're ue athletes. they're unbelievable. again, i think the game of golf doesn'tue don't have to have a photogpher swing. and this is a whole business behind the book is the fact that i want people to realize that there's more than know one way-- e most important thing in golf is scoring. that's the end result. i don't care how you do it. and that's the fun i've had with this is the fact that this is part-- nobody gives it a whole lot of credit, although in the last month, it couldn't have coincided with us bringing this book out september 15 any better to have all this heula about web simpson, you know, or keegan bradley, both using long putters, belly putters. and everybody is thinking, boy, this is the new way. >> rose: what do you think of that? >> i think it's fine. but the routine is the key thing. i don't care if you use a telephone pole. i just want you to have a good

routine. >> rose: so why are so many winners on the tour now coming from europe? >> that's a great question. >> rose: i'm looking for a great answer. >> well, yeah, i think they play around the world. they're obviously-- it's a worlclass sport now and it didn't used be. i have a name you're going to hear about, nicholas coalart. had been on the european tour fine years and never won anything, a month and a half later won in china, the biggest tournament. he's probably going to make the next ryder cup team, the second belgium to ever be on the team. i think the european team will be loaded. >> rose: what do you like about him specificay? >> he hits it farther than i can believe and now he has a putting game i catch. charlie, i watch the people hit the ball. i wish i knew how to do that. oh, my gosh, they just pound it. j.b. home-- >> bubba watson on the cov of

"golf digest." 315-- >> but, still, at the same time, i look at these guys, i don't care how far they hit or how good they are but if they don't have a short game. you know, like david works with ross fisher now and martin laird. we have just as many europeans seeking us out as americans. >> rose: i'm sure. if you had trouble with your swing, where would you go? >> ronnie. >> rose: your son? >> oh, yeah. >> rose: because he what? beuse he's a great teacher or because he's has great d.n.a.? >> no, no, no. ronnie had a back problem so he never really played he won one minor tour tournament, but he's a psychology major. a lot of what we're after is telling me the right words. anybody-- i don't like anybody that has a routine, okay, let's say we're all going to teach a certain method. i don't get into that because with my two boys, with david jr. and robbie, we basically are looking at you and figuring out

what's going to make charlie feel comfortable. th he'll putt better. if something is wrong with my game i go right to ronnie. he's been teaching me since basically '85 when he was 15. we went to the desert, and you'd get an hour lesson and we'd conden it down in aboutwo minutes because mahas a lot of words he uses, long words and stuff, so we put it together. and-- no, i wouldn't go to no one else. >> rose: what was the genius of mack o'grady or is the genius of mack o'grady? the kinetics of it. >> don't even-- not smart enough to go there. >> rose: but he went there. >> i got a degree from somewhere else. he went there, definitely. and he did-- the underlying thing is basically the golf ball is hit for distance, a certain part of at you cowith your core, under your arms and above your knees. your bellybutton being the center that's your trunk. that's big muscle.

my dad always said under pressure the little muscles are going to work but you have to treat your big muscles so they work, too. you don't want them to freeze up because then it's all little muscles and the ball is going to go everywhere. if you watch an ice skater go into a power spin. they put their arms like this and go faster than heck. what do they do to slow down? they put their arms out and they almost stop immediately. okay, i'm going to watch bubba watson and make this giant, big swing. if their core doesn't work right. it's not going to be any faster. it will just be wildir than heck. the key is having this core. mack helped me -- >> how did mack help you? >>dhe tawd taut me to use my body. >> rose: though taught you how e it. these guys today work from that, too, the physical conditions, tiger and everybody else. >> gary player, who you have interviewed -- >> you've seen every golf show i do, haven't you? >> i've watched a lot. i want to find out. but gary,un, he does popular sit-ups in one day than i've done in my life.

>> rose: a thousand. he's great, too. he's in great shape. he was here, vuln, a month ago. he's in great shape. >> i'm surprised he didn't get on the table. >> rose: i know, i was, too. some of the people-- everybody-- there's always a controversy about new swing technique or new teachers come along. me of them go talk to mack ogradey and believe that they see a way to-- have any of those guys influenced you in terms of what you see, in terms of new ideas? somebody come along and seems to have discovered something? >> long game or short game. >> rose: i'm talking about the long game now, the swing. >> oh, yeah, there are lo. the first time i saw tiger. i had never seen anybody swing and have the left shoulder not go up. most people go like this. the inverted "c," the class i came out of. it your body goes right through. now you have no restriction. your arc becomes longer and you can create the power. i'm nogoing to sit here and tell y i understand wher these kids get the power.

i watch mcelroy absolutely unlode on the ball. >> rose: and he's 5'10". >> yeah. >> rose: and skinny. >> yeah. >>ose: and hits it 300. >> plus, easily, easily. nicholas coastline-- >> rt, i mentioned, 6'3", 205, 200. >> rose: where is he? >> i'd say 320. >> rose: and bubba his it 330. most swing 80%. >> i swing at 100 in case i hit. >> rose: what about the yips. what happens with the yips some players get? >> i think primarily charlie it's because most people don't have enough loft on the putters. two years ago they would have told you they don't make any putters withore than two degrees of loft. every one they made me for people i was teaching it was four, five degrees putt. if you see loft on a puttier, you don't want to--say

i've got no loft, my right hand is going to twitch it every time. so if you get somebody-- if you're h yips, i'll have them putt one hand with the left hand and won't let them come up. literal lie, just let the left hand and put the puttir on the ground right on through >> rose: if that's true you will make a lot of people happ >plenty of pple who can't putt. >> rose: the who is that? that's me. my older son dave jr. and own. >> rose: ronnie is the one you would go to. >> junior played on tour,ing and when i knot sick and had the rotator cuff surgery and all this other stuff, my wife is ready to kill david because golfers go to play on tour. he got in the teaching by the back door. ronnie had already been teaching 20 years, so now we're full

blown. mean, he just picked up-- well, his most recent stent is justin leonard. got him two weeks ago, came out to san diego, worked with junior and finished sacked walt disney last week. when we first started in 2010, i kept track i was going to count top 10 and i thought that would be reallied any and we had 29 victories. so now this time, this year, i don't even know what we have, i don't know what the total of thing is this year. i feel like my dad's smiling down on me because i ntioned before, when you're a player, you have to be it' eye, it's me. you have to be selfish. and i feel so much-- it'ssuch a neater feeling to be helping these girls and guys really improve and improve fast. >> announcerget satisfaction from teaching. >> satisfaction, much better, yeah. >> rose: you do? >> absolutely. >> rose: f a while tre you did not the to be known as a putting instructor. >> i always was helping people.

anica comes to mind and tiger. anica, i said, i don't care, i don't want you to pay me anything b just don't tell anybody i helped you because it you cothey'll come ask me questions and i wanted to still play. i epijoyed theplaying. i've gotten over that now. >> rose: graonla.ting r y >> congratulationsing. >> i really appreciate it. it's an honor to come and be with you. >>ra rose: david stockton, the book is called "unconscious putting."