tv BBC World News WHUT January 4, 2012 7:00am-7:30am EST
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>> for 18 years, one of britain's most notorious unsolved murders. now the guilty men will be sentenced. they were part of a racist to gain that killed a black teenager. the case led to profound changes in policing and the law. >> hello and welcome to gmt. i am george alagiah, with a world of news and opinion. also in the program -- mitt romney by a wafer thin margin. the republican race to find a challenger to barack obama is still too close to call. tribal violence leaves thousands homeless in south sudan. what does the conflict say about prospects for the world's newest country? >> it is midday in london, 7:00
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a.m. in washington, and 8:00 in london. gary dobson and david norris will be sentenced soon. the fatal stabbing of steven lawrence had been one of the most notorious unsolved murders in britain, regarded by many as a stain on the country's policing and legal reputation. in a moment, we will discuss the implications of the case. first, we can go to our correspondent in central london. >> brooks gave evidence and has been very traumatized. the judge says it does not matter if the knife was not in your hands. he said you, dobson, repeatedly lied.
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both men have denied for 18 years that they were there and anin any way. they even denied the clothes were theirs. the judge says the encounter was chance, not a premeditated, but you were prepared to attack if the opportunity arose. they were convicted of murder, of course. this means gary dobson and david norris knew that somebody in that group, if not them themselves, had a knife with the intent to kill or cause serious harm. the jury said they knew a knife would be used to kill or attempt to kill. the judge is talking to the defendants, whom he said could
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remain sitting in the dock. he said they were part of a racist, thuggish gang, and they targeted as part of a chance attack stephen lawrence and his best friend that night. the judge said to gary dobson and david norris -- this is his reading of their racist behavior. the judge said it was chance, not premeditated. he said there could be no mitigation for contrition. mitigation could be used to reduce sentences. they were very young at the time. i am sure the judge will come on to talk about this. david norris was 16. gary dobson was 17. they have shown no remorse. thethe judge said directly to
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gary dobson and david norris, " you lied to the court and you have shown no remorse." that's a key part of what the judge is taking into account. the judge has to think about what he can start with. on the other side of the balance, does he think about aggravating balance? they're both now in their mid 30's. the judge said he had to sentence them as they were at the time. we're not talking about a situation where 30-something gary dobson and david norris ran into the road and stabbed a teenager. we're talking about a 16 and 17- year-old at the time. the surveillance tapes were taken in december 1994.
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he said, "you were not innocent teenagers. you worked implicitly racist -- you were to implicitly racist." matt is in court and tweeting. gary dobson is staring straight ahead. he has insisted all along that he is innocent. both men have looked up to see who is in the public gallery. gary dobson has made eye contact. i have been in there with his mother. both men have their mothers testify on their behalf and provide alibis. in the case of david koresh, that came as a surprise -- in the case of david norris, that
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came as a surprise. an adult today would face a starting point of 30 years. we will talk a little bit about this with our legal expert after word. at the time, it would start with 30 years. we were talking about men who were 16 and 17 at the time. as they are now is the key. this is where there has been some public disappointment expressed. these men cannot be dealt with as the adults they are now. they cannot be dealt with as they stabbed lawrence a week ago. they were younger than lawrence at the time that they killed him. the juvenile starting point for sentencing would be 12 years, says the judge. the starting point sentencing -- the judge said to start thinking about aggravating
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factors. the starting point would be 12 years. the judge is working his way towards telling us what the sentences will be for gary dobson and david norris. in the court behind me, scored 16, absolutely packed with -- me, court 16, absolutely packed with families and journalists. mr. justice tracy, a very experienced judge. as he has directed the jury, he was very careful to lay everything out in layman's terms. he has said to the jury, though the nation may be swayed by the lawrence family, this is not about sympathy. this is about the evidence. he was very cool and calm to the
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family. the judge says the starting point is 12 years. he says that because it is a racist crime, the sentence should be increased to take this into account. we are starting at 12 years for men who were juveniles at the racist stabbing and murder of stephen lawrence. the judge says it should be increased. the judge has gone on to say that he will adopt the starting point of 12 years and then adjust to reflect. now we will go through -- are there any other mitigating factors? there were statements made by gary dobson and david norris' lawyers in court yesterday. he has to sentence these two pleasure,r majesty's
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and that is a phrase you would use when you are talking about juveniles. they will be detained at her majesty's pleasure. we're going to come through to a recommended minimum. i will get you legal expertise. just to remind you, the judge is now talking directly to gary dobson and david norris about their murder convictions and sentences they can expect. he is telling the court that the starting point is 12 years. he will adjust that up and down when thinking about other aggravating or mitigating factors. he began, "this is a racist crime." you would expect him to increase it. that is what we're waiting for,
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the minimum term before a possible parole. that does not mean that at the end of the minimum term -- that does not mean gary dobson and david norris will be released automatically. it means they can be considered for parole. their character will matter. gary dobson is standing for his sentence. he was 17 at the time he participated in the unprovoked racist attack on stephen lawrence. gary dobson was 17 at the time. david norris was 16. gary dobson is standing. we think the seven members of his family are in the public gallery looking down on very dobson, who for 18 years has
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denied he was anywhere near the attacked a minimum of 15 years for gary dobson -- anywhere near the attack. a minimum of 15 years for dairy dobsgary dobson. it could be a little different for david norris. he was 16 at the time. david norris was pretty brutally beaten up. he was given a broken nose and broken ribs. he said his first marriage broke up under the strain of notoriety after all these years. they were named by a neighbor's who ran into the police -- by neighbors who ran to the police.
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the police incompetence has been a part of the story. these men have been under this light for 18 years. the breaking news. gary dobson has been sentenced to a minimum of 15 years for the murder of stephen lawrence. david norris, 14 years and three months. i think i'm hearing an adjustment to that. 15 years and two months for gary dobson. let's be absolutely accurate here. david norris will serve 14 years and three months before the possibility of parole. david norris is one year
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younger. he was 16 at the time that he took part in the attack -- the murder of stephen lawrence. stephen lawrence's parents and younger brother are in court now. we will bring you the reaction of the defendants and see whether gary dobson has anything to say today, as he did yesterday. they have relatives in the public gallery. durinall the time i have been in there -- the lawrence parents have been in the elevated dock. doreen lawrence has given them a long, hard look. nothing from the defendants. gary dobson and david norris have left the dock quietly.
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yesterday he said, "you convicted an innocent man." both have been sent down. norris blew a kiss to the public gallery, which he has done several times as this has gone on. we have the two sentences. dobson, a minimum of 15 years and two months. norris, 14 years and three months. let's go to mr mansfield -- let's go to mr. mansfield. your reaction? >> first, i obviously want to emphasize the fact that this has been conducted as an extremely fair trial from start to finish,
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concentrating, as it should on the issues that the jury had to consider. the judge has been extraordinarily careful in elaborating the factors that he is taking into account. he has made it very clear. i also want to say -- it was an inquest jury that started this. they were the ones that came back all those years ago and said this was an unprovoked racist attack. >> michael mansfield giving his reaction to the sentencing of those two men, gary dobson and david norris. we will leave that story now and move on to other stories. now to some of the other stories making headlines around the world. the long race in the republican party to find a candidate to challenge barack obama in
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november's presidential election has begun in a pretty dramatic fashion. the first test in the state of iowa, former massachusetts governor mitt romney snatched a victory, but just eight votes ahead of the onetime outsiders, and rick santorum -- onetime outsiders, rick santorum. here are the figures. joining me now from washington with more on this story is roger. i suppose you could call this a tactical victory for mitt romney. what are the implications? >> a technical victory, but respectively a two-way tie. mitt romney was the presumed national front-runner. he is seen as strong on the economy, but also as something of a moderate republican. he did win, but only 24% of the
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votes. four years ago, he ran for president and came in second in iowa with 25% of the votes. there are still questions on whether mitt romney can broaden the support, especially when a candidate like rick santorum, who is strong with evangelical voters, also got 24% of the votes. the purpose of iowa is to thin the field. mitt romney, going into the next round of contests, remains the one to beat. >> rick perry, newt gingrich look as if they might fall out of the race. if they do, who benefits from that the most? >> you are right. the two political heavyweights, rick perry and newt gingrich were seen as the strongest challenge to mitt romney.
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they did not do that. rick perry has already gone back to his home state of texas. he said he will reassess his candidacy. gingrich says he will stay in the race. you do not need to when i was to stay in the race, but you need to make a strong showing -- need to win iowa tuesday in the race, but you need to make a strong showing. ron paul has a strong core of support, but he is seen as something as a loose cannon in the republican party. he could yet be the king maker. he might be the one who decides -- ok, i'm going to lobby for one particular candidate. in terms of the votes for rick perry and newt gingrich, they both present themselves as strong on the economy and strong on social issues. that is the thing that seems to divide rick santorum and mitt romney. iowa has narrowed down the
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field. not everyone is focusing on these two candidates. we will have to see in the next two rounds who benefits the most. has been a close race. the name everyone needs to look out for in the next few months to challenge president obama is mitt romney. >> thank you very much. still to come on gmt -- the latest news. stay tuned. we'll have more on the stephen lawrence sentencing. in libya, a gunfight in tripoli between rivals has left four dead. the first outbreak of violence since december. >> a gun battle across one of the busiest streets in tripoli. this time, not between libyan rebels and gaddafi forces, but between different malicioulitia.
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they engaged in an armed battle. >> [speaking foreign language] >> this incident occurred because of a dispute between some fighters betweenmisrata and some fighters. unfortunately, it has led to the killing of four people. >> the libyan government's biggest challenge. this death shows just how tough the challenge is. >> [speaking foreign language] >> it happened after the revolution, not before. they said there would be government order. 23 fighters came to claim territory. they killed young boys for territory. >> this is what the libyan government wants to see more of. the police presence is a rarity in the streets of the country
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dominated by weapons. more than two months after colonel gaddafi was captured and killed, real power still resides with the militias that ousted him. the national army is still in its infancy. the city council has set a deadline for militias to disarm in return to their homes. it was ignored. these clashes send an alarming message. the road to stability will be long and violenct. >> this is gmt from "bbc world news." i am george alagiah. the headlines -- two men convicted of the racist murder of british teenager stephen lawrence had been given prison sentences of 15 years and 14 years. in the first race of the republican presidential election, mitt romney beat rick
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santorum by just eight votes. joining me now from bristol is dr. richard stone, an adviser to the stephen lawrence inquiry. we are going back to that story. the two men were found guilty of murdering stephen lawrence. mr. stone,t for being with us -- mr. stone, thank you for being with us. what is your reaction? >> two people have been convicted and given reasonable sentences. there we are. that's the way the law is. that is the way it has to be. i have strong views. i'm delighted they will be behind bars. one of them may have it reduced a little bit. it could be on the streets in 10 years.
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that is not long. >> for the full benefit of our viewers around the world -- you are on "bbc world news." describe the effect this case has had on british society, on its legal proceedings, and its relations with the police. >> mr. and mrs. lawrence have taught the will of britain what institutional racism is. the family are black. that is what institutional racism means. the laws of policing our race neutral. people can give more time to one case that another. that is what has happened. don't forget that there are various other things. double jeopardy.
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mr. dobson has gone down for 15 years. he could not be tried at the time due to double jeopardy, an 800-year-old law. >> do you believe that britain is a substantially different place now after this case and after this conviction? >> i hope so. the more i hear from people in black communities -- some people -- they are still being stopped more often, much more often, then why people. >> richard stone, thank you for your time. this is a good bye for now.
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>> make sense of international news. bbc.com/news. >> funding for this presentation is made possible by -- the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu newman's own foundation and union bank. >> you are no longer in the service. only an outsider can find the double agent. >> i'll do my utmost. >> from the bestseller by john le carre -- >> all i want from you is one code name. >> it will take a master spy -- >> you are alone. >> you can't mention me. >> to catch a spy. >> you have to assume they're watching you. >> what the hell are you doing up here? >> things aren't always what they seem. >> "tinker tailor soldier spy." >> rated r.
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