>> charlie: welcome to our program we begin this evening way conversation about politics specifically republican politics in south carolina and talk to tom defrank and michael kranish. >> i think electability is at the core of romney's appeal. i think there's a lot of party elites who a laying back a little bit wanting a few more states to vote but they believe and they have for months that romney is is the best chance to beat obama and the party is obsessed -- as fred barnes said their party is obsessed with obama almost crazed about the need to send him back to chigo working on his memoirs. >> charlie: we continue this evening with a conversation with actor michael fassbender

in "shame" and "the story of bobby sands" w died in prison in a hunger strike. >> i thought i don't want to alienate this guy. this is somebody you would recognize at work, somebody you would see on the subway an every day person, us. i wanted to bring him as close to me as possible. >> charlie: a program note, jim o'neil was here this evening for a taped program seen in its entirety thursday night. tonight politics and michael fassbender when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following:

captioning sponsored by se communications om our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: we begin with a look at the republican race awith the

north carolina primary in a debate last night the other candidates took aim at romney and questioned his conservative credentials and business record. here's alook at some highlights from that debate. >> mitt, we need for you to release your income tax so the people of this country can see how you made your money and that's the fair thing. here's the real issue for us as republicans we cannot fire our nominee in september. we need to know now. >>i would ask governor romney do you believe people who are felons and serve their time and exhausted their parole and probation should they be given the right vote. >> people who have committed violent crimes shouldn't b be

allowed to vote again. >> in massachusetts when you were governor they could vote while on probation and parole which is a more liberal position when i voted for the billing in the congress. >> senator santorum and i complained with the supe superp. it's an absurdity to take falsehoods off the air. >> pack ads supportive of m or you should be taken off the air but if we're talking about superpack ads, mr. speaker you have a superpack ad has it attacks me. it's probab the biggest hoax since big foot. >> charlie: joining us now fm washington, al hunt of bloomberg

news and mark halperin of time and mark defrank and mark anius. i'm pleased to have them here and first to the man in south carolina, mark halperin. where are we and what are breaking news stories and what should we kn at this moment. >> if you took an overall broad view it looks like mitt romney has a good chance with all opponents who will draw votes from the same pool. if you look though at a more narrow pic picture of the last hours newt gingrich could win and shake uphe race. romney is favorite for the long term and gingrich in the debate at myrtle beach la night and the kind of performance that worked in the room and reflected in media coverage across the state.

i want to an event with mitt romney in florence, small crowd a desolatory performance and newt gingrich was fired up at an event and moved off the bane capital attack which wasn't working for him and a contrast between him and mitt romney. who's the real conservative and affect conservative change and who's been part of the conservative movement and the clear sign the romney people moved from santorum to gingrich who members of congress are going to hold a call on wednesday to talk about what an unreliable person newt gingrich is. i think mitt romney is the favorite to w the primary but one scenario lt which is if he loses this one probably to newt gingrich if he loses.

>> charlie: and using his debate performance because he can do the best job the debate against president obama. what do you make of south carolina and what you just heard. >> it's still romney's to lose, that's for sur he could lose it but i still think the odds are favored he's muddle through. he hasn't had a good week and hasn't exploited hxploited his hampshire and south carolina is not fertile for him with veterans and people worried about his mormonism that won't admit but i think the party elites are still with him and think he's their best chance of

beating obama. while gingrich could surprise it could be all over by florida. maybe not in terms of official delegates but pyschologically. >> charlie: halperin? >> i defer to mark's reporting hope to ground. i thought almost it looked like the fix was in the last couple ys because santorum did good enough and got the support from evangelical and one-on-one i guess mitt romney wld be in terrible trouble in the state of south carolina and think he's had a rough couple of days and mark, you heard gingrich today but in addition to the true conservative attacked mitt romney on his failure to release his tax returns before april i think an issue that will hurt him a bit but if i were miael krar kranish i would say my grandchildren would be fine with

the royalties of the book. >> charlie: nice introduction for you from michael. tell us what you know about mitt romney and the way he is on the campaign trail and what we ought to know and might not appreciate? >> when you look at mitt romney's whole life it's a series of bubbles. he grew up in the affluent community of broomfield hills, his father was governor and mormon and going on mison and all these things through his life and career he's had this sort of bubble and the problem has been for a long time connting with people. >> charlie: for a long time. it's not a new idea. >> he's always been a person that seems of patrition very wealthy and that's always been his challenge connecting to the average person and saying i'm

the best person to represent your values and especially one from his world explaining what he did. his record at bane capital which is 15 years and we go into that at great length to give you a broader look at what he did at bane capital. frankly when you look at the ads and sound bytes and sentences but there's an interesting fuller story to tell about bane ca capita capital and we aimed to do that. >> charlie: give us a sense of where romney is today and hows he doing debates and his ability the end, this core question of authenticity and connection. >> he's had a rough 24 hours on that score i left out a couple details that are going to get a lot of attentioin the next few cycles

leading up to saturday's primary. in the debate last night he gave an answer about hunting it was awkward and people seized on it in attention d did a press conference after this weak event, low-energysmall turnout in florence d asked him a question in the press conference of how he differed from rick santorum on issues and an open-ended question and gave an answer that wasn't that revealing but mentioned tax rates and as a llow-up i mentioned what's the tax rate you pay and for some reason he chose to answer and said 15%. then he went on to say, well, he described his income and said he'd made money from investments and speeches and turned out he made over $300,000 from speeches. threes a lack of passionate his event, the stump speech not reprising and his election night

speech so good and going back to the stump sfeec stump speech inw hampshire and seems out of touch and patrition. >> charlie: before i lose you, one last question from me. the notion of gingrich and the possible win but is he somebody conservatives can coalesce around because conservatives are already on record feeling he's note best person to be president. >> i think it would be difficult for him to do. and let's say he wins south carolina and florida. i'm t predicng that but i don't think it's impossible if he wins south carolina he could go into florida with a full head of steam and i think the establishment would move against him and some members of the

conservative movement would move against him and it would be difficult to consolidate. once he got a head of steam and romney lost romney may end up a loser in iowa and if he land lineds iowa gingrich could be difficult to stop but not up possible because as you suggested he wouldn't automatically consolidate. some conservatives do not like him and nor for rick perry or santorum. >> charlie: i'm afraid i'm going to lose you i'll say good night. >> good night, charlie. >> charlie: you know the bush family. patr patr patrition is not the reason he can't connect.

>> he reminded me of richard nixon in the sense they were both awkward. nixon got around it with sll talk by falling back on sports. where you from, how's fran tarki tarkinton and watching romney on the stump it seems a struggle and the connecting problem is for real. >> so it's more than growing up in a bubble. >> i cover george h.w.'s presidency and we have examples of people who are wealthy and make good connections. one is mor of the city. obviously you can do that. you can full off. mitt romneis a little different than michael bloomberg obviously. that is a chaenge for him.

there are many factors that come into that and one of the things he has to deal with. mark, kudos for asking the question people were asking about his tax rate. it's not surprising who gets most of his income from investment the tax rate they pay, the key on that let me just mention this, the globe in covering for 20 years has asked for tax returns when he asked senate and it's an issue that's been there time and again and will release the tax returns in april presumably aftere thinks he'll be the nominee and won't tell us what he did at bane capital 15 years. reporters like myself and mark halperin will say not just this year's tax returns long after you left bane capital but show us the tax returns for that time and see you had a deal and the profit you made. that question could be there if he's a nomie through november. >> charlie: al, has gingrich or other attacking the bane capital

experience bause a, it was gaining no traction which is likely or b, they finally realized that perhaps they re doing the president's work. >> it was probably b. the establishment an party unloaded on that and late me pick up an couple points. i'm going give way my age. i was a kid reporter in boston in 1967 and nuck over to cover mitt romney's father. to the the contract between the two is interesting. he really had a rather natural touch and was far more outgoing an an and easy. he didn't say he was brainwashed but there's a difference between father and son in that regard. to pick up on michael on the tax issues a couple points.

he still gets some bane income. we're not sure exactly how its but two words are dividend and interest and the private equity guys and others have an incredible sweetheart deal. if that comes on his tax returns i think it will be a real embarrassment and i'm sure michael's research showed in 1994 it s mitt romney demanding edward m. kennedy release his tax returns. >> right. and there was that demand at that time so that has come back as in issue, yes. >> the handling of the tax issue, charlie has been clumsy on romney's part in a cardinal rule of damage control if you don't have anything to hide you don't behave li you do. and think wha he's trying to hide, if you will, is

embarrassing stuff because it will turn out he pays the taxes at the same rate at warren buffett's secretary. it's going hurt him in the wall. the whe house is ecstatic and already getting ready to tee him up in the fall. as just another robert baron. just like a hedge fund trader and all this stuff. it fits into eir populist rift and it will be a problem for romney. >> charlie: do you think they can make it stick with bane capital and his business perience it goes to the heart whatever he says makes h have the potential of being a good president. >> it's the best they've got probably charlie particularly if there's seven or eight unemoyment rate in the fall but they plan to link it together. john poddesto said mitt romney was paying a lower rate than

some of the people he laid off. you see the campaign they're plaqu waiting. he may have overplayed the job creation role. as you know, charlie, what private equity firms are create wealth. sometimes they create jobs, sometimes they don't but that's not their main purpose and i think michael has seen romney more than i have and i've watched him eight or nine times now and 8 spehes e 80% bane. >> charlie: why is that and why doesn't he run more on the record of massachusetts govern. >> he's rning as a business pers that can turn around the country and his health care is not popular with the republican base to a degree and we looked

at his job creation it's hard to say with 100 deals what jobs were create and lost but i want to point out the globe has looked at this in 1994 we looked at the staples deal. the reality is one of the smallest deal mitt romney and bane capital did. they put in $200,000 and cashed in at $300,000. other deals were in the hundreds of millions and one deal in the book that was a $50 million investment and returned a billion dollars. when you compare that to staples it's small and mitt romney said i don't take credit for the jobs at staples and attribute 89,000 jobs staples. >> charlie: many people make th argument, i want you to speak to this, many make the argument and the governor does, this is

capitalism, that's what it is, you take a risk and sometimes you make a sk and other times a failure and with respect to private eqty you have thing going for it you appreciate if you have a big win and if there's no big appreciation or a loss you still get your fees and the fees are the issues because the people that are employees don't have any fees. >> that translates into something approximating risk-free capital. you get the fees and a lowerax break. >> he may be qualified to be president and a smart guy graduating from harvard business school and law school at roughly the same time. i don't think one could make the argument to be a success president is to be in that field

and a year ago very smart o sma operative operatives weaved their way through the issue. >> charlie: i want to stay focused on the fact it's not just bane capital but the notion of what he did as a mormon. maureen dowd wrote a piece where he approached a young woman and did what? >> he has several leader positions, one was governor and bane capital and he was essentially head of the mormon church in massachusetts. it's a lay church and he was the leader and there was a point in which there was a woman in the church who was a single mother and he came to her as she tells the story and basically said that you need to give thi child up for adoption. a single mothers are not

something that the church is entirely behind. it was a very controversial statement and denies part of the conversation and we write in detail about the episode and interviewed the woman. she kept the child and did not put it up for aption and has harsh memories about that incident and tells us about that. >> charlie: when you look at what the obama campaign is, you're in washington and see what's going on there, they believe they can beat mitt romney because of all the things we've talked about. they don't think he has the kind of threat to them they thought ght have been atne time. >> i think they're threatened by romney. they've been beati him up for months because they've identified him that's strongest theoretical opponent for the president and having said that they believe they can beat him. they believe they can beat him on t rich, too out of touch and the lynchmen are their

strategy of course as alex talked about is the economy. they need a better economy. >> charlie: trending the right direction. >> to say the trajectory is cricket. stick with me we're on track and get the well track mber in the right rection. they believe all those pieces are starting to fall into place and believerafrican-americans will come back and independents will not vote for a candidate worth hundreds of millions and think he has eleoral flexibility which is probably gog down in another conversation and think they have other ys to get 270 electoral votethan romney does. >> charlie: the idea of

electability in the end is that an argument he'll be able to use gog through uth carolina and florida if he does well and will conservatives will be notwithstanding enthusiastic because they want to beat the president. >> electability is at the core of romney's appeal. there are party east party elitg for votes and the party is obsessed as rick barnes said their party is obsessed wh obama and almost crazed about the need to send him back to chicago working on his memoirs and so the party elders wants romney to get the nomination. one of them has been saying to me for months obama can't win but we can lose this thing and

we can los it if we nominate somebody less electable against a well-financed incumbent president. >> charlie: fred barnes also said it seems like the republican party has a death wish because of what they're doing to themselves. >> and why i think gingrich is coming off the bane capital thing because gingrich and santorum are providing grists for the aid and company in the fall. >> charlie: who does dementh want to be? >> somebody more conservative. charlie: a candidate that's more conservative but a candate that can win. so therefore he's supporting his people on the ground are supporting romney? >> the bush people have been using a phrase called neutral for romney. i think 43 is neutral for romney

and jebush will come out soon and endorse him. >> charlie: will people assume he speaks for the family. >> bush 41 is already out there and the bush dynasty would be comfortable with mitt romney that's nominee. >> charlie: the issue of mormonism. somebody suggested -- maybe you suggested in the boo he want to bring mormonism into the mainstream and part of what he feels internally he may be able to do with his campaign. >> well, if you're a mormon and your task as a young man or woman is to go on a mission and convert people. i'm sure he would not say as president he would want to use the position to promote his religion. >> charlie: whatever negative connotations they may have but they'll see him and see what his family's like. >> the church has a campaign showing i'm a mormon showing regular people who are mormon

but i'm sure he'd push back the idea it's about his religion and in sou carolina it may be an issue and won south carolina last time over the issue. >> charlie: albert, re he is, mitt romney. if i'd said to you in the middle of december, mitt romney's going to win i iowa. he's going to win big in new hampshire and he's going to win in south carolina. you would say to me what in december? >> game, set, match. he's the nominee. i think it's hard to make a case for anyone else right now. i think once he wins iowa and new hampshire even if he should lose in south carolina i find it difficult to conjure up a scenario for anyone else but that's important because if he wins while struggling that makes him a weaker general election campaign than winning early and try to heal all wounds of the party.

>> charlie: thank you, albert. good to see you. >> tom defrank with usat the table in new york. >> thanks. >> charlie: michael fa michael has been called a chameleon. to mccarthy of the hollywood reporter said it's amazing it's taken this long to be recognized and the ability to suggest a great deal within while main tanning outward composure. his role south florida a sex addict. here's the trailer for the film.

[♪] >> you're the man amazing. . >> nailing it. >> how'd it go last night? >> he's doing it tonight. >> and my sister's playing downtown some where. >> please stay for a few days. why's he angry. >> he's my boss. >> do you want to play. >> your hardrive is filthy. it's dirty >> i'm trying to help you. >> how are you helping me huh? you come in here and you're aweight on me. your a burden. >> you want to get out of here i could take you some where. >> we're family.

we're meant look after each other. >> hey, roo. >> please pick up the phone. [♪] >> charlie: i am pleased to have michael fassbendert the table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> charlie: i don't know where to start i will probably start with brandon and who he is and cause this is a film not about sex. it's a film about compulsion. you tell me. >> yeah. it takes -- it manifests itself in sexual addiction but when

morgan and steve set o to write this and the idea was, you know, characters that were looking for some sort of connection andooking for sort of intimacy but having a real problem dealing with intimacy. and brandon is definitely who's somebody searching for that and trying to connect but the crux of his problem is the whole intimacy issue not only in sexual relationships but also in friendship, the relationship with h sister. but it's interesting to look at sexual addiction amongst all the addictions as well because it is about that. the fact that if we look at something like alcohol addiction, drug addiction, gambling they're external thing you're bringing in. >> charlie: as a crutch for you. >> where sex is an aid and an

instinct that's part of us and within us. do you then atain from it or do you try to negotiate some short of healthy pattern that will allow you to continue having sex. >> charlie: there's nothing healthy about the pattern he negotiates. >> absutely. >> charlie: it's like givingup to it. >> like bottoming out. it's like smoking when t third act and the thing about brandon is he's somebody that doesn't like himself very much and so he sets about abusing himself and you clearly see there are obviously there's the sex scenes in the film but one of the things that i think is very sort of revelatory about the

character is he gets himself beaten up just to feel something so he's punishing himself. >> charlie: going as far and deep as you could can go. what would carl young say? >> see my friend ziggy freud. >> charlie: a dangerous method is the other film. >> the first thing they would probably do is to certainly to recognize it, allow it and realize it's there. in dangerous metho we e something of that with keira knightley's character where she's self-loathing and ashamed of herself because of these sexual fantasies and the first thing to know is that it exists and therefore to sort of deal with it that way rather than try to suppress it and pretend it's

not there. that's i think perhaps the first stage and then you know, as i said trying to negotiate a way healthly through it. >> charlie: he also has a certain power too? >> keira's character? absolutely. that's the great thing without giving the film away. the azinghing about it was when she goes into the hospital he she goes in as a patient and then she becomes the door. that concept alone was very modern, very forward thinking. >> you can see it -- when she's a patient begins to look at issues and he recognizes it too. >> that's what attracts him to he >> charlie: she understands humanity in some way and human behavior in some way from life

experience. >> she's got a bravery of recogning it and sort of she's very sensitive to it. i think that's what sort of really joins them together. also the fact he's trying out this new sort of talking cure and so it's new to him. he's at a point in his life because there are stages in his life and at this point he's still got a lot to prove and unsure. so ey're going into this unknown territory together and that form's a very strong -- >> charlie: and the relationship with freud. >> yes. >> charlie: and let's look at these two first. let'talk about how you approached the two roles. here you are as an actor and having a phenomenal ye. what's the challenge in brandon for you as an actor? >> well, i've realized immeately i didn't want to dislocate him to m in any way and wanted to bring him close to

me because i wanted to deal -- it's like sexual addiction does it exis is it a real mental il illness and themental health board says no but there are people claiming to have it and i didn't want to alienate the character because he's somebody you would see at work and on the subway. every day people, us. i wanted to bring him as close to me as possible. >> charlie: bringing him as close to you as possible means what? inhabit the character or having the character inhabit you or whatever way you explain it. >> both. they seem together but not to of change my physicality too much. not use anything to hide behind i guess. to just sort of kind of be myself as much as i can within the character.

and also by meeting people that sort of are recovering and dealing th the sort of compulsion listening to their stories. how would i st this intimacy thing because i enjoy intimacy and how does that -- you know, manifest itself and i was lucky that this man, one man in particular reall really opened was suffering om the same thing. >> charlie: he suffered the illness of intimacy. >> he can't deal with it. if somebody comes to him with an emotional responsibility they want to involve you in it's somebody he doesn't feel safe, a place he can't control so therefore he stays away from it and we see that in the seen that brandon has with mary anne his

co-worker where there's an intimate relationship and therefore he can't perform. >> charlie: what did that person say who was a sex addict to you that helped you understand and bring that understanng into you >? >> i remember he told me the particular person is a recovering and negotiating a way -- >> charlie: did he convince you there is something to sex addiction. >> yeah, without a doubt for me it's real. in terms of just peoplehat are addicted to internet porn and spend 72 hours in a room and can't make love to their partne >> charlie: is that one kind of addiction or do you find parallels as a sex addict? >> i think there are tangent ta

and tributetory factors to it and all is seeking pleasure and after a while the compulsion takes over and the addiction takes over like let's say alcohol where once you get to the poin of being a chronic alcoholic you need a btle of liquor to start the day. >> and the place where shame comes where your no longer mentally in charge of controlling your actions and after the climax you're left with the reality of lack of control. >> charlie: and no matter you want to deny you are, you are. let me turn to the collaboration

to steve mcqueen. what does he bring, what do you bring, why are you two so good together? >> i don't know. it's a chemistry thing. when we first met steve didn't like me very much. i know that. >> charlie: why didn't he like you? >> he said i was cocky. >> charlie: were you? >> i suppose i could have been. you go to so many auditions and i messed up so many of them and there's a sense of defensiveness where you show some sort of confidence or arrogance or whatever came across and it was very much to do with the material. my mother comes from the nth of ireland and my -- well, all myrish family are up there and you know there's been films in the past that are made that i think are insulting to the people up there and i wanted to make sure it was being handled

right and gary david the casting director convinced him to let me come back. >> charlie: after your cocky arrogance. >> and i thought had i had a great meeting. and he was like who the hell's that guy. so when i came back and had work to do in a meeting which is what you want to do doing the meet and greet and i came back and prepared a piece of the middle sex with the priest and sort of did the audition for him and after that they offered it to me. >> charlie: once you did bobby sant in hunger did you say to yourself this is where i ought to be. this is where i belong >> absolutely. in terms of the fact that at one point just to be an actor is what you're looking for. you're doing odd jobs and think god, i just want to do what i love doing and what i've trained

to do so to be a jobbin actor which started to happen to me really when i was 27 i started to make a living out of it. i didn't have to do extra jobs. i was like kay, this is a good position and then to actually get the oprtuny to pla a lead role in a film i know you've been talng about economics here on the show which you do often and in 2007 i got the part in "hunger." 2008 we had the experience with the resession and affected this business and less work for actors and less for actors unknown so for know get an opportunity to play a part like that and show a potential or possibility was essential ting. >> charlie: did it open doors in which people said man, i didn't know you were that good? >> it was more like who is this guy. >> charlie: where did he come from. if he can do ts good wheres with he yesterday and the day before and why didn't we notice.

>> about what it did was open me up to filmmakers. it's a filmmaker's film within the audience realm seen around filmmakers and it allowed know get into new rooms and then -- >> charlie: in preparing for this, as i remember you preparing for the role of bobby sands," sands, 600 calories a day? >> which is against what the nutrionist told me and i think each individual body responds differently and i think that's why maybe some people like meat and vegetables and how does one lose the weight so it trial and error and the first five week i stuck by 1,900 calories and flat lined at 164 kilos, not sure

what that in pounds. >> charlie: what were you physically? >> the first two weeks there was -- i think by week two i was getting insomnia setting in and i'm od at sleeping anytime, anywhere. >> charlie: on the floor. >> i can definitely do that and that's because your body's going what areou doing, eat something. then i got used to it and then it's just an immense amount of focus. i didn't want to hang around people that much and had friends visit but it was breaking discipline it's not like watching a film together you can't ask people noto eat around you and i felt i could keep more focus by myself and went to venice beach in los angeleand did the fast and the weather helped an awful lot and the sky was blue and it was warm then by week five i was in my routine but i had to drop the

calories down to 600 for the last five weeks and then shed more weight and got down to 58 kilos. >> charlie: i'm going interrupt the conference and talk about the two roles, one is brandon and shane. role clip and then we'll see a clip from "hunger" in which michael plays bobby sands. >> one person for the rest of of your life, i mean -- you i mean you come to restaurants and you see a couple sitting together and they don't evenpeak together. >> they probably don't have to speak becae they're connected. >> or just bored with one another. >> there we go >> what's your longest relationship? >> um... >> exactly.

>> you can pour. four months. >> to commit you have to actually give it a shot. >> i did. for four months. >> for more months. >> laying in the water. he's all skin and bone. a gray color and he's got flecks of blood in his coat because cu. you stand over him and see his back leg snap and he's breathing and alive but just about. this big conversation gets started up between the boys who wreckon themselves the leaders and someone says drop a rock in

thr head and can seer thr faces they're all scared and it's all braveado. next thing one of the priest sees us and tell us not move or we're done for. a group of boys will always get the blame. it's clear to me in an instant and i'm down on my knees and put him under water. he's thrashing up at the start so i press down harder until he's drowned. priest arrives. he grabs me by the hair, dragging me through the woods, promising me a proper heading but i know i did the right thing for that fool and i had their

respect and i knew that. i'm clear of the reasons. i'm clear of all the repercussions. i will act and not stand by and do nothing >> charlie: you know what impresses me about that, number one is the power of voice and a sense the command of language to tell the storynd the other is steve just let the camera just stay there and did not move, did it? >> no. it was -- just before the scene we had the shot with the priest. i remember this is the thing about steve, he sort of comes from the art world and just arrived in the film word without any sort of, you know, schooling about this is how you need to do a shot and cover shot this and cover shot that so we did t two shots and said i always want to do this in one and in the course of a day we did it in the

one and came back the next day and they said, no, in the morning we did the two shot and in the afternoon they started setting up for coug covery spot said i want to go home and liam was like this guy's different and there was a discussion in the distance with produrs and in the end steve got his way. >> charlie: this is the scene i want to showalso from from "a dangerous method." you're playing carl young. what's the scene about. without worrying about the particular scene, tell me about you want us to understand in this ptrayal of carl young? >> i guess i'm sort of trying to show human beings. the thing is when you deal with these guys they're heavyweights in psychoanalysis.

they have their forefathers. >> charlie: they're the giants. >> yeah, they're the giants and within that is massive egos and insecurities and it's like they make the same flaws and petty mistakes, if you want to call it as we do. >> charlie: same temptations in the end no matter how they talk about it. >> it's the pupil and the master and the master takes the pupil so far but in order for the pupil to fully understand himself does he ar have to bak away from the master and sues the father and son theory which freud, which did happen, fainted at the munich conference and the rift between them and like in both camps anybody that disagreed with their torys was ousted out of the camp.

it's interesting that sort of relaonship. >> charlie: take a look. this is keira knightley playing sabina. roll tape. >> there's nothing to be down. he refused to speak with me on the grounds it may take his authority. i have no authority. it was a blow when i discovered >> it's not a question of sides. i have to work in the district my instinct tellsy intelligence. don't forget, you cured me with his method. >> i would have never accepted what we don't understand has gotten us nowhere. we have to go in unchartered territory and go back to the sources we believe. i don't want to just open the door showing the patience his illness like a squatting toad.

>> charlie: that's no good making yourself ill in the process. >> she comes in and good to go. you know. >> charlie: we re talking about keira knightley and this is a scene from "inglorious bastards." you got a lot thou you didn't play a major role. this is a scene he pretends to be german and turns out to be a british soldier. what are you doing in >> i'm supposed to link up with a british spy played by diane kruger who's a big movie star in germany at the time and is posed to take us to this theatre where there's a big gala screening and the idea is to blowup the heads of the nazi party. >> charlie: roll tape. here it is.

[ speaking german ] >> this is it old boy. i hope you don't mind if i go out. >> by all means, captain.

>> there's a special place in hell for people who waste good scotch. seems i may be wrapping on the door momentarily. i must say, damn good stuff, sir. now,bout this pickle we find ourselves in. [laughter] >> charlie: let me tell you it's been a greatleasure for me to have y here. >> likewise. >> charlie: i hope you'll come back. >> i'd love to.