tavis: good evening from los angeles. i am pat smiley. tonight, a conversation about the new movie, "red tails, "about the tuskegee airmen. it was produced by george lucas, who has worked on bringing this project to the big screen for over 20 years. a conversation with actor terence howard, coming up right now. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it is the cornerstone we all know. it is not just a street, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make everyday better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television]

captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- tavis: pleased to welcome terence howard back to this program. the oscar nominee heads "red tails," which tells the story of the tuskegee airmen. the film is playing in theaters around the country. here now, a scene. >> your combat record, which to this point -- >> we have done all of that. >> to this point -- >> i do not believe your boys have scored a single aerial strike. >> you have not assigned as a single foreign mission. >> it is hard to shoot down the enemy 100 miles behind the front lines. we are given hand me down planes, and targets that have

already been bypassed, flying patrols were the enemy has done and seen for months. we have done every dirty jobs -- dirty job you would pandas, hoping we would limp along and go away. we will not go away. we have a right to fight for our country, the same as every other american. you shut us down, or you let us fly. tavis: let me start by asking you what george lucas had to do by -- to get this made. i am starting to hear stories of the journey. this is george lucas. this is not spike lee. this is george lucas. he had to fight to get it by. >> i think he had to go to the dark side of the force to make something happen. what was taking place -- he has been working at this film for 23 years. he started developing the story.

things went along and there was not enough to happen. there were people battling whose story we use. finally, after 23 years, he gets to the point where he is ready to get it made. he goes to studios. nobody wants to touch it. he says, "i will put my own money up." he puts up $50 million, shoots the movie, polishes it. brings it to fox initially, where he has brought them billions of dollars in the past. his record shows this is a profitable man. he gets there. the telephone, "it is a good movie, but we do not know what to do with it. we do not know how to market it." it is an action movie. but it is an action moviethey de outside this country or outside the black community. all of the bad guys are white. so? that is just history.

they are like, "we cannot touch it." he takes it to the other seven major studios. each of them -- two of them cancel and will not even see a screening. one of them actually sent in one black guy to watch the movie. at the end of it, they asked him what department he worked in. he said, "i worked in i.t." he did not work in film distribution or acquisition. tavis: this is george lucas. >> but george lucas is carrying this film about black actors, black man, our black history, which incorporates and tells all of history. you cannot take a race out without eliminating all the other race, if you are going to tell the story of the human race. george, facing a problem of money -- his girlfriend melody, a brilliant woman, she said to him, "now you have an

understanding of what it is like to be a minority." tavis: she happens to be an african-american woman. >> melody is the head of one of the largest hedge funds and money management funds in america. this is a heavyweight woman. but she has seen so much take place. she reaches out to oprah. who reaches out to spike lee. who reaches out to everyone in the community. they garner themselves behind this to say, "you put this amount of money up. we are not going to let it fall." george put another $50 million to distribute it himself and marketed himself. he will push it along. we as the actors said ok.

informants, i have not taken the job, because i have -- in four months, i have not taken a job, because i have been touring the country to talk about this movie. tavis: the story of the tuskegee airmen is an american story, to your point. let me ask a very politically incorrect question, because i can, respectfully. for all that white george lucas had to go through, being turned down by every major white-own studio in this city, to get this story of his boric -- historic african americans told, how will you feel if black people do not turn out in droves to see this movie? we will talk about the rest of america in a second. how will you feel if we do not turn out to see this movie? >> disheartened. this is basically a natural link

in a chain of events that martin luther king gathered everyone in montgomery and memphis, and malcolm x, and his movements through chicago, and all of the people who have moved toward no longer being part of a different franchise -- if we do not show up and support the march, the march toward equality in the cinema, the march toward being at a level -- we do not even have to be higher than whites, but to be viewed in the same common thread. this is a professional. this is a story that people are interested in. it is not just dogma from the studio. if black people do not support him, i will be disappointed. but maybe the next generation will support it. maybe we need to do a better job with educating, to stay as a

solid front. tavis: that is the african american question i wanted to dispense with up front. let me offer a quick commentary. i asked that question deliberately and unapologetically, because we ve a bad track record -- but as the franc -- inside the african american community, of talking the talk but not walking the walk. we would talk about hollywood academy time. they do not nominate african american actors. they do not win. we were raised holy hell when it comes to what hollywood does not do to tell our stories. when a guy like george lucas goes to the end of the earth to get the story told, puts his money into it, has an all black cast, telling a story of her right americans who happen to be african-american -- if we do not show up to see this, i will have some commentary about this. if we get the numbers that black

people did not turn out -- we have to do that. that is my own commentary, although you did not ask. that is the black part. what made this story, for you, such a quintesstial american story? >> you have to think this country finds itself in a similar place as it was back in the 1940's. i make that statement because at that point we were living in trepidation. the threat of europe, was taking place over there, what had happened to their economy, even though we had seemed isolated from it -- the threat of what was taking place there could spill over here. you jump 67 years ahead. now we are in 2011, 2012. we are facing a similar problem with what is at stake over in europe. someone has come in and, through mismanagement, the world economic stability is gone.

these men were not only fighting for the freedom of the world back then. they were also fighting for the regnition of being able to contribute something to their country. these few men, boys, 19, 20 years old -- not only do they have to make a stand for the world so it could find a balance, but have to make a stand for their race, so their race could be respected. if we today do not support those that are in government, trying to make a difference, if we do not raise our level of education, do not raise our contributions, then the fascist threat that affected the world back then -- there will be no more tuskegee airmen to come and save the day. we need an economic tuskegee airmen right now. we need some red tails to come in and make strong sacrifices to

change the tide. i think where we are sitting is based upon an economic quagmire that we have created and our government has created. tavis: it occurs to me that this is the kind of feeling you want people to see for a variety of reasons. we have discussed reasons future for in this conversation. but hollywood is an entertainment business, and you want to see a good film. let me move to talking about this. it really is a good film. as you would expect from george lucas, the high-tech stuff, the special effects -- >> that is no joke. they have invented some new techniques in telling the story. even with star wars, that was not as complicated as this. it has over 6000 special effects shots in it. to put that in perspective, you have to think of a par had only

2000 special effects in it. that was creating a new basic part of our galaxy. the had to do everything with that. to recreate that armada of b-s -- b17s and p512 -- that was a new form of technology. roscoe brown is one of the original tuskegee airmen. he is sharp as a pack at 90 years old. watching the film, i was imagining this is the first time in 60 years that he has been able to read envision what it must of been like to be surrounded by that many aircraft. while we were watching him, his hands were between his legs like he was still holding onto his joystick, dodging things. tavis: in the movie.

>> watching him, he was there. tavis: flashback. >> if this film can transport someone who was actually there, that is what we want. the rest of the world, knowing the contribution these men have made -- when they got off of the boat after the war, they were expected to go to the parade. it said, "what's this way and blacks this way." they thought they would meet up. they were put on the bus. the white people were in the parade. the black people were back to replace the could not even vote. white kids after the show were sitting up saying, "i am lightning puzzle "no, i am lightning." that is eight or nine year old white kids, wanting to be black. that is actually a little frightening. [laughter] tavis: as i think about this, what is fascinating about the

contribution african-americans have made to the history -- you think about harriet tubman. harriet tubman never lost one person who she escorted to safety on the underground railroad. 19 times she goes back down south to bring black slaves to freedom. never loses a single passenger on the underground railroad. you know where i'm going with this. tuskegee airmen. never lost a bomber. every plane escorted, they got it back cyclic. >> a number of them ended up dying. the life expectancy of a pilot back then was about 15 missions. whites were told they only had to do 24 missions. blacks do not have the same thing. negroes were retiring. but because they were so limited, and number of tuskegee airmen, because the washout

there were facing, the lack of educated ones -- these men had to go on 74 missions, on average. the possibility of being killed was triple. if not even more. that in itself shows a dedication to service. maybe that is what protected them. all of the bombers, whether they were english bombers, part of the allied forces, or a number of the other supporting french fighters -- all of those bombers have family members that are so thankful to the sacrifices the tuskegee airmen made. they would not leave the side of those they were told to protect. tavis: what did you take away from spending time with roscoe brown? in your conversation with him and reading about the tuskegee airmen, what did you take away

as to why the they were so committed to their country, given that they had to do triple the missions as the white pilots, which increases by triple their chance of getting killed? to your earlier point, they are in a country where they cannot vote. they are not respected. the country only calls them up when they are so desperate for pilots. these guys have been good at this for a while. they only get called up as a last resort. they come back home and get treated like they were being treated before they went. what the takeaway, as to why the they still felt compelled -- why were they still so patriotic to do this for the love of country? >> because we do not know how to let go of hope, something god put in us, the hopes.

a long-suffering nature. it is a quality i think we and other minorities carry. i am going to keep pushing. even after this, i am still going to keep pushing. i know something good will turn out of this. i am glad they did. tavis: we are in the season of dr. king's holliday and black history month. a lot of us are on the lecture circuit, raising questions of how america can be a better nation. there is so much the nation can learn from the black experience in this country. one thing is there are some examples of african americans who have learned to love this country in spite of, not because of -- and that is what you're saying. these tuskegee airmen loved america in spite of how they were being treated, not because of. that is what makes this -- it is what makes their contribution resonate with me so much. they did not have to do it. >> they did not even come back

and braque. the talk about it in barbershops to each other. but i have never gotten a grammy. there were not look for richard. -- they were not little richard. we were invited to the white house to see all the 20 or so tuskegee airmen that never got a grand parade, to see them in the white house, shaking the hand of the president, a black president. they knew the fruit of their hard work and sacrifice is did pay off, just to be able to see that. it is like moses getting to see the promised land. these individuals actually could see and live inside of the promised land. tavis: you have seen that with two presidents. you saw it with president obama, and you were hanging out with george bush, the first president. >> the were in the theater.

we enjoyed it. we have a great time. it reminded me that he used to sit in one of the bubbles underneath the bomber plane. he said the red tails, the fact that they set a new standard for how fighter pilots dealt with farmers. everyone else tried to emulate that. not all of them had the sense of service and the fortitude. some of them wanted to get their own glory. i talked to him a lot. i think as a consequence of that contribution in 1948, truman desegregated the military. tavis: tell me about the character you play. >> colonel bullard. i believe he is based on the archetype of a real strong man named benjamin obey. he was the third graduate from -- negro graduate from west

point. the four years he was in west point, not one white cadets spoke to him. he maintained his integrity, his dignity. he held no resentment or malice. therefore, he was added on to the tuskegee project to prove that black pilots can fly. he was determined to prove that they could. he was like george washington. you could shake his hand. you could tell a joke to him. but you could not put your arm around him. he was the grandfather of all of the cause. even though he was 31 years old, they called him old man. he was the oldest man on base at 31. tavis: he goes on to be a general. colin powell was not the first. >> his father, benjamin o. davis --

tavis: his father was the first brigadier-general. >> he was the second. he could have mothered these men. but he exposed in them the necessity to maintain composure, the necessity to exhale at everything they did. never to lose. do not be struck by the mistakes you make today. we all make mistakes on our road to accomplishment. tavis: let me close with a two- part question. at the conclusion of this project, tell me more about the respect you now have for the tuskegee airmen, and the respect to now have for george lucas. >> the tuskegee airmen -- to see a young man make a stand for a group of people that have no appreciation for his actions at the time is similar to what i saw in jesus.

no greater love has man been for him to lay his life down for those that he loves. that self sacrifice and the desire to achieve excellence -- that touches me. george lucas, a man who had nothing to gain. at this late age and his life, in his 70's, he did not need to take on this type of battle. he did not need to risk $100 million and his reputation. for him to step forward like that -- that is the gift of god. that is the gift of creativity, when you have been blessed with the creativity. you are supposed to take the chance so others will have the opportunity to swim in that well, that pool of opportunity and blessing. tavis: to the tuskegee airmen still living, we thank you for what you did then and the example you said. and to george lucas, we thank you for working so hard over two

decades to bring this story to life. terence howard, thank you for coming. that is our show tonight. until next time, keep the faith. >> hundreds of them. 6:00. >> let's get them. >> where are the fighters? is there anything left? mayday. mayday. prepared to bail out. >> our boys are getting cut to shreds. >> i need pilots who will put the bombers ahead of themselves. >> when we came under your command, you stated very clearly that we would never find negro's who could pass a pilot's exam, make it to flight school, survive basic combat. we have done all of that. >> i do not believe your boys

have scored a single aerial attack. >> it is damn hard to shoot down the enemy 100 miles behind the front lines. >> what we do, how will we do it, does it matter? >> to sign up, and that would be the end of 100 years of bigotry? if you are fighter pilots. >> we have a right to fight for our country, the same as every other american. we will not go away. >> i cannot afford the kind of losses by bombers have been suffering. can you help save lives? >> if you get us in planes, we can help your boys. >> this is typical. >> everything is challenge. >> from the last plane to the last bullet. to the last man, we fight. >> we fight. >> you protect the heavies. >> fighters, 4:00. stay with the bombers.

>> one bomber is 10 men. we count our victories by the bombers we get to their destinations, by the husband's we return to their wives, by the fathers we give back to their children. >> come on, a junior. >> for more information on today's show, a visit to have a smiley at -- visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tas: next time, join me for a conversation with kathleen turner on her new show. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it is the cornerstone we all know. it is not just a street, but a place where walmart stands

together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.