. >> rose: welcome to our program. tonight a conversation wiith prince alwaleed bin talal of saudi arabia about the arab spring, about syria, about the middle east and also about his many business interests in america. >> unfortunately, the conflict is still continuing over there and unless bashar takes a quick decision bloodshed will continue, but as to your question of having the saudi, saudi arabia and the other arab countries to interfere and find a resolution militarily in syria, that is very dangerous because then you are really going to be in a deep quagmire and we are enhancing the possibility of having civil war there. >> rose: we conclude this evening with princess amira a leading advocate for women's empowerment in the middle east, and the wife of prince alwaleed

bin talal. >> a woman has to voice out their concerns, they have to, they have to gather a certain mass and through being together it will be stronger than just one person. >> rose: a program note, there was once a very famous and very successful television program in the 1950's, it was hosted by the legendary cbs newsman edward mauro, they decided to bring person-to-person back, the first program will be on wednesday night at 8:00 p.m., it will be hosted by me and lara logan, the chief foreign affairs can correspondent for cbs news. here is a look at person to person. >> now where is this greeting room? before you go outside will i see the screening room? >> i am going to get you to the screening room. >> are you looking for yourself? >> yes. >> let me -- don't go there. >> let me tell you what is out there. >> you know, the reason that charlie keeps talk about ides of march is because he is in it. >> is he?

>> you played -- and this is a stretch, you played charlie rose. >> charlie, be sure, be sure if this is going to be on with george clooney, be sure you explain to your viewers which one of us is which because he gets called warren a lot. >> really? >> and very confused about which one you are interviewing unless you make it perfectly clear. >> we will do our best. we are basically saying that these are the two sexiest men in america today is the way we are pitching this. >> i think that's the way to dos the best way to do it because you wouldn't want them to feel bad. >> do you play basketball with the president? >> i will tell you what, i watched him play and i want to say he can't go to his left. >> really. >> and that is -- >> too easy to beat is why you haven't played him yet? >> i won't him because if he beats me i will really be upset. >> are you a bad loser? >> i am not a bad loser because when you are 50 you find you lose more.

so you have t have to do a lot f like, by the way i played carlie in basketball. >> yes. >> he is a very, very bad loser. >> i am not surprised. >> prince alwaleed bin talal and princess a -- amira when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. am am

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia and news and informatio captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: prince alwaleed bin talal is here, he is chairman of the kingdom holding company, saudi investment firm, he founded more than 30 years o, today it has billions invested around the world in a wide range of industries, including banks, hotels, real estate, media and technology. time magazine once called him the arabian warren buffett, the largest foreign individual investor in the united states

with substantial sex in news corp and citigroup, i am pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. >> it is a pleasure to be here. >> rose: so let's talk first about syria. >> bashir like all of the other 21 leaders in the arab league consists of 22 countries, they are all my friend, my friends. clearly, more importantly, the syrian people are also my brothers and my friends. i think unfortunately that syria may have reached a point of no return with what is happening lately. there is a very grave situation. i believe that the arab commission that was sent to syria did not help. i also believe that pushing there 2 u.n. resolution that was vetoed by two members of the u.n. of the council. >> russia and china. >> russia and china did not help also because it put the changed the position of bashir internally. >> rose: so you were in favor of the resolution that the

chinese and russians vetoed, correct? >> you thought that was a good idea? >> well, i am for finding a solution for what is happening in syria. now, clearly that vote did not work well. i think the united states, france should have discussed the matter with russia and not to have it vetoed by them because that sent bashir to the interior and internationally. >> rose: it strengthened him? >> it made him more aloof to what is happening because he says china and russia would back me up so why would he back off to what is happening in syria. >> rose: what do you want him do. >> in the beginning i wanted an applicable situation where they find a solution, with having elections or having a consolation with the opposition but i think with the bloodshed that is taking place in syria, i think we may have reached a point of no return, whereby it is very difficult right now to consul late between bashir and

the opposition. >> rose: almost everybody says it has gone too far. too much blood and death and too many acts of -- >> very difficult now, very difficult. >> rose: so therefore what happens to him? >> well, i think it is his decision. we have seen how mubarek decided to give up and relinquish power and stay in -- >> rose: but he is on trial in egypt today. >> i understand. and also we have seen how bin ali decided to go to jetta, saudi arabia. i think the bloodshed has to be stopped one way or the other. one forum is to relinquish power and have free and open elections, and have syria go back to stability and tranquility. >> rose: would saudi arabia allow him asylum and come to live there? >> i cannot talk on behalf of the government but saudi arabia as a country is open for all muslims, all arabs and i think if he asks for asylum i think that is something that the government has to decide, but first he has to decide what is the next step, but he doesn't have many options.

>> i am not sure saudi arabia would accept. i think the official position of saudi arabia and kipping abdullah he won't get involved in the internal affairs of other country and actually as an example, when the united states asked saudi arabia to interfere in the libyan affairs by sending, committing some troops, saudi arabia declined that formally. >> rose: but isn't it necessary in these -- for the arab countries who feel strongly about the arab spring and the consequence also of the arab spring to be willing to engage whether libya or syria? i mean, these are fellow muslims and these are neighbors. so should didn't world expect saudi arabia and its power to be in play? >> well, saudi arabia went through the arab league, with other 20 countries, obviously, excluding syria, and took very tough and firm position against syria, and sent a commission to syria that came with certain

recommendations that i would say that was not successful, frankly speaking, because we expected to have a different scenario. unfortunately, the bloodshed still continues over there and unless bashir takes a quick decision, the bloodshed could continue. but as for your question of having the saudi, saudi arabia and the other arab countries to interfere and to find the resolution military in sir, i can't that is very dangerous because then you are really going to be in a deep quagmire and then we are enhancing the possibility of having civil war there. the objective right now is to have as peaceful as possible of a process whereby stability comes -- goes back there, because we are seeing some units from the army pulling out from the -- from supporting bashir, and this happens an extra rates

you will have an army pro and an army against so you will have the components of a civil war. >> rose: what would happen if there is a civil war? >> this could go for a decade or so. we saw what happened to lebanon. yes and remember there is a sectarian element here. you have the sunnis and shiites. >> remember remember what happened in lebanon the war from 1975 to 1990. >> rose: if you a civil war everybody is going to charge in and it just gets worse and worse. >> i think interfering in syria, whether through nato or through coalition of countries or the arab league, this will not resolve the matter at all. >> rose: now the iranians have been strongly supportive of syria for the most part. what do you make of that? >> well, iran sees syria as being a foothold of its philosophy and mentality to advance its own causes.

we have seen iran aiding syria and lebanon and bahrain and yemen and even saudi arabia, and we just had delegation from iran visit saudi arabia, the head of intelligence and i think they gave them the message if you would like to have peace with us you have to take care of certain matters very quickly. >> rose: what were those matters? >> i think number one, stop interfering in bahrain, must be 2, stop interfering in saudi arabia and the provinces and also take your hand officer i can't and not to be involved in lebanon and i think the issue of iraq was not brought up because we know maliki is completely pro iran, unfortunately. >> rose: have is also this. syria was a conduit for iran to supply weapons to hezbollah. >> oh, yes. >> rose: so if syria goes down, it will be, not be in the interest of iran? and iran is the enemy of saudi arabia? >> for sure. i mean, iran sees syria as having a strong foothold in the

levant, in the west part of the levant, and clearly if bashir is no longer the president or leader of syria, for sure iran will lose a strong foothold and you see right now, the head of hamas is beginning to build bridges again with jordan and the gulf region, we are thinking what could happen potentially if he leaves syria? >> rose: i have gone to syria to damascus to interview. where is he going and what do you make of his rumbling he may leave hamas? >> well, that is what he said publicly, and we have seen him lately moving in the gulf region also going in a breakthrough meeting with king abdullah of jordan brokered by qatar, so clearly, we are seeing some leniency in his position, because he is thinking of what may happen after the ba shish rejeenl collapses, doesn't continue,. >> rose: because it became untenable for him and hamas to

stay in damascus? >> for sure because he is thinking what could happen post bashir. ra. >> rose: so will there is this contradiction but which you obviously know, saudi arabia had no trouble sending troops into bahrain. >> no. there is a very big difference here. bahrain is part of the ggc and the six countries in ggc have an agreement whereby if any country is attacked or under danger all other five states have the right to enter fear so it came under the umbrella of that. number one. number two, the -- of saudi arabia so really when they went to bahrain with other ggc countries, they were defending saudi arabia and the ggc countries so it was not only defending bahrain. >> rose: i want to broaden this out from syria and saudi arabia, this is the article that you wrote for the wall street journal, opinion section, in which you make the following point. one, now is an opportune time

for the arab no narc chal regime which still have goodwill to begin political reform, another point is if there is a lesson to be learned from the arab spring is that the winds of changes now blowing in the middle east will eventually reach every arab state, will eventually reach every arab state. so what is the kind of reform that you think arab states have to make, especially those that have a monarchy? >> well, i am talking specifically about the monarchies, 6 ggc and monaco, those countries although don't have official monarchies, but you see what has happened in morocco, the king of morocco had a referendum whereby the majority of the people of morocco accepted the new constitution, and whereby elections followed, and guess what? the moderate muslims won and chosen to lead the

government, and the government was established over there. so i would not say that morocco -- a step towards that direction. >> rose: you want do see the monarchies survive by reforming? >> exactly. >> rose: let me also suggest when the arab spring arrived the saudi government spent up to $130 billion in money that it sent out for abandon service. yes? >> many thought thi that was a r example to say your government will take care of you, because we, because we do not want to see the kind of dissatisfaction here that other arab countries have witnessed. >> that is what i told you. when saudi arabia took care of its people, socially and economically. >> rose: it is a bit paternalism too. >> i don't know to that extent but i think the fourth component, the fourth element which is the political stability of the nation depends on having more predictable participation of the people and i think the king, for example, took a decision whereby to involve the ladies, which is heading in that

direction uh but the step will come when more is given to mashura and having elections. >> rose: are you surprised that women participate more in the government in bahrain than they do the government of saudi arabia? >> well, not really, because if you look at iran, really, they have a lot of openness, a lot of involvement and participation in the process, in the political system, more than saudi arabia, but i believe right now, they are beginning to take the right steps where ladies -- >> rose: in terms of -- your wife the princess had been here and have a full conversation about this, but you are talking about the full empowerment of women. >> exactly. i am saying equality. i mean, a woman should be equal to men and i believe iran, unfortunately, like saudi arabia -- >> rose: you believe saudi arabia is prepared to try to catch up? >> having to do with all kind of small and large things, whether driving or political

participation? >> former, for sure concentrated on the social and economic fronts. right now, his attention is turning to the political front and really the decision, although in saudi arabia, which is historical and in the west isn't very important, but really to have the ladies bet the masura is a breakthrough through the municipal elections is important. >> rose: speak to me about the relationship between saudi arabia and the united states. >> you know, i never subscribed to that concept that saudi arabia's relation with the united states went bad because of hosni mubarek saudi arabia is smart enough to understand nobody could say mubarek. >> rose: no one could save hosni mubarek? >> yes. let's say they wanted hosni mubarek to continue? how could they stop the millions of people in the arab spring there is no way saudi arabia is a mature country, smart and understand nobody could stop the departure of mubarek, although saudi arabia relation with the united states goes up and down

sometimes because of many reasons not only because of that, but because of the palestinian situation also and the ultra promising from the obama administration when he gave this important speech in cairo but then nothing was followed up after that. so but now the situation is pretty good and i think obama and king abdullah speak almost on a monthly basis. >> rose: how could that relationship be improved? >> well, it could be improved if you can extract the causes of friction and the right, main cause of fricke nun is the palestinian situation because this is a problem we have in our region, and i imagine it is very much ready to have to have a peace with israel. the question is, could israel afford to have peace? could they have peace without having israeli government chance because of the right wing movement that is part and parcel of this government? >> rose: you think the palestinians are split as well, though. i mean, benjamin netanyahu has

his conflicts with the likud and especially the foreign minister but so it is with the balance sinian community, fatah and hamas are not exactly on the same page. .. >> but we are seeing early indications hamas is getting close to fatah, you know,. >> rose: because they are moving toward fatah? >> they are moving toward fatah because also they are seeing there is no hope in what they are doing and being strangled right now in gaza. gaza is a small strip, surrounded completely by israel so i think israel gives good indications that it is willing through peace there is no choice but for hamas to subscribe to that peace process and be involved with fatah. >> rose: so you are also urging them they should take certain things out of their charter and make clear that when the -- as they described the occupation ends the resistance will end, that hamas is prepared to recognize israel's right to exist and also not want to -- >> well, the arab league when

they met in lebanon, i think 2002, at the unanimously 22 countries approved the presence of israel, approved the fact they have a normal vision between israel and the arab world so this goes beyond hamas and, 22 countries approved having peace with israel. >> rose: i know that but hamas as you know has been -- has a different attitude about israel that fatah. >> the idea of throwing israelis in the sea is -- >> rose: then why don't you recommend and saudi arabia recommend and urge the hamas to change? >> we can recommend for -- >> rose: until the cows come home. >> it is not going to help, i think. i think the stronger party in the conflict between israel and palestine in israel -- >> rose: what move would that be? >> the move that you want peace. we want peace and we are willing

to go the extra mile. not to procrastinate and delay the process year after year. >> rose: and the arab countries and palestine and the palestinians are prepared to realize there are some settlements that have to be there even though they are beyond the 67 border and compensated by other lands that the palestinians will gain. >> i think this has to be part and parcel of the settlement but i in tell you what was told to me by the president of palestine right now in the west bank. ask them, what will you accept? they say, we will sit down with them and compromise and we need to have some adjustments in the borders between us and them and there are many alternatives you have jerusalem the capital of two countries so netanyahu is exacerbating the problem. >> rose: prime minister netanyahu is right here at this table when he came to the united nations and said we want to talk to them, we have asked them to come talk and come negotiate instead they went to the u.n. and said give us statehood. now, their argument is that they are prepared to talk.

>> i mean, they are prepared to talk but talk has been going on for how many years now? since 40, 50 years? but they are more than ready to have peace. i think the next move has to come from netanyahu and i think the united states has to reprioritize and put its priority -- i know obama has wishes the, wishes the deficit, iran, iraq and healthcare, the elections, and he has to reprior tize that and put that on talk. >> rose: the election means nothing will happen between now and november. how do you see the united states today in the world? after the economic collapse, after the arab spring, after the whole range after the rise of china and the east? >> well, the impression is that the strength and power of the united states is waning. it is not as strong as before. cheerily, the economy crisis also, deepened the wound in the united states. right now the united states is very much becoming isolated and less involved in the.

>> rose: isolated? >> yes. i mean look -- they are not involved, for example, from the point of view of the palestinian israeli crisis .. there is no involvement at all. they are not involved at all. we see for example now the pulling out from iraq, although it was good politically for locally but the position here, the civil war over there, if there is a fight between sunnis and shiites. after spending $2 trillion. >> rose: are you suggesting they shouldn't have pulled out? >> no, i am saying they should have some troops stay over there. >> rose: they were prepared and asked by the government of iraq to leave. they were prepared to do that, if they had been asked to do that. >> you handed iraq to iran just like that and maliki is very much pro iran after spending $2 trillion you hand over whole iraq to iran like on a golden plate. >> rose: but we couldn't stayive government doesn't didn't want us to stay. you see iran as the principal rival, as the turk do, as the saudis do, as the cutter qatar

does, i think, to everyone in the region. why do you fare iran so much? >> it is not so much fear. if you look at all, many of the problems, look at the bahrain and saudi arabia, look at the support, for example for his easy, hezbollah in lebanon and hamas also, and we have proofs that iran also is supporting hamas. so hamas, hezbollah, even in yemen also, they are involved. >> rose: the fear is they are sending them weapons and missiles, and yes and they are involved all over the place so we can see the hand and -- of iran all over the place, we are not fearing them but we want them to get off the back of the arab countries, becaus because e enough problems. >> rose: if nothing else succeeds in convincing iran not to build a nuclear weapon or have the capacity to build a nuclear weapon, would like to see the united states and israel do something, even military, militarily? is that your opinion of the opinion of arab leaders? >> i think that the arab

leaders, including saudi arabia, would like to have iran to be nuclear free for sure, definitely. now the question, were all the channels exhausted by the united states and the u.n.? i don't believe so. i believe sanctions have to be tightened and right now the united states successfully was able to get europe on board. >> rose: on the oil embargo. >> yes. which is very important, because this is going to strangle iran economically. i think it should be given time and i think that the let of participation, he explicitly said that in his last interview, ba net at that, the threat should be there. so i think you have the carrot and the stick. but i think also you should engage with them in dialogue. >> rose: other people have said to me, most recently an interview i did last week with the pry prime minister of qatar he thought there ought to be direct relations, direct negotiations between iran and the united states. is that a good idea? >> i saw that interview and you should negotiate and bargain and

discuss and then you should have the military option ready. remember, iran still remembers very vividly what happened to iraq, remember how the united states invaded and over threw saddam hussein so they remember that also. so they are not stupid enough to understand that the united states could not military over take them and retaliate. >> rose: if everything fails, the oil embargo fails and everything else fails and negotiations fails, then the military option ought to be used because above all, iran is unacceptable for iran to have a nuclear weapon? because they would destabilize the entire region? >> the military option should not be taken off the table for sure. the threat of nuke military option should stay there because they only understood this tough language. >> and should it be use if everything else fails? >> i think that there is hope from having a discussion with iran whereby if you give them

some commission, and remember, the embargo is causing a lot of pain inside iran. the currency devalued by almost 60 percent since the whole thing began and it is going to get worse also. so the situation iran is very dire and deep and bad. >> rose: what do you make between the conflict between the ayatollah and the president. >> i don't believe there is a conflict. i believe they are using thi ths a tool of the. >> supreme leader. >> yes. >> rose: or the revolutionary forces or whoever it may be. >> he can't do anything unless that leader decides what he wants to do. >> rose: look at what happened in tunisia, modern islamists did well, look what happened in egypt, muslim brotherhood did well. we don't know what is going to happen in other places. but are we going through a period in which we have to witness and experience islamist governments having their shot at

running countries? >> i include for rocco, morocco is one. >> rose: you mentioned that earlier. >> and tunisia and egypt, but remember, what is common among the three? they are moderate muslims. for example the real extreme wing of the muslim party in egypt became second, and most likely. >> rose: 25 percent or so. >> so i think there is no choice but to give a chance for the islamists because they won through elections. then that is the will of the people. >> rose: yes. and in some cases, the argument is made that this is a good thing, because being in power might moderate even their views if they were extreme. >> and we see that already. in morocco and tunisia and egypt, all the language we hear from them is positive and moderated, it is not extreme at all. actually, the first thing that the muslim brother that won the election, the majority in egypt, they say we never, we won't

cooperate with the extreme us in limbs they will go to the more liberal parties like happened in tunisia also. >> rose: when you look at the possibilities except for, except for syria, i mean, do you believe that arab spring is really the arab spring and not the arab winter? you know, i hate to use the word arab spring, because in spring you don't have the bloodshed and all of these revolutions, it was really very painful and i think that many arab leaders are getting less and trying to change, an and i believe that king mohammed of morocco is really a model of what other arab states could do and fast. >> rose: what do you see as the role of turkey? >> well, turkey is still in a vacuum in the arab world. >> rose: even though it is not an arab state. >> exactly. and remember, turkey was all the way from qatar, to iraq to north

africa. >> rose: right. >> so clearly, i value my friend very well and it is still in a vacuum. egypt is busy with its internal situation and iraq is involved in their situation also and saudi arabia right now is trying to assist here and there, so there is a big vacuum,. >> rose: and turkey has filled that vacuum? >> well, tried to fill it up, but arab still looks at turkey with hesitancy, because they utility highsed our region for almost 500 years, and it was not the best era in our -- >> rose: do you believe that is what some people believe that prime minister has been on this program many times and you watch this program, that he has ambition to do that? to restore that kind of turkish primacy? >> well, i think it is built in, you know, the ott upon, ottoman

empire controlled for half a century, 500 years, so .. there is no doubt that there is an element of what you said now of -- >> rose: the fear he may want to restore the ottoman empire? >> to restore the -- >> rose: right. >> at least to really, to at least establish the hegemony or the control or the presence of turkey in the arab world, for sure it is there and very cheer. >> rose: what do you think of his relationship with iran? >> well, the relation with iran is in every country and the engagement with them and i think the strategy is if all doors are closed for iran, at least there is one path to go through turkey so he would like to be -- into so that's a good situation then. >> it is not bad at all. if you want iran -- then you would just -- >> rose: that is the fear of iran, is it not? >> brzezinski uh was on your show and said don't let them capitulate because they will act

crazy. >> rose: i am impressed you watch the program so thank you very much. so there is also this. with respect to the region, qatar. what role are they playing? >> well, qatar is a small nation, but. >> request a large tv networkn't. >> and also with huge wealth also, the gdp in i can't far is very high, it is even higher than norway also. >> rose: it is clear to me they want to play a bigger, smarter, more influential role in the region. >> i think the -- of qatar of the arab league was very instrumental in getting the syrian issue to the forefront and getting it internationally and getting it -- >> rose: and come okay the united nations and making the argument. >> i know him very well. >> rose: let me turn to the global economy. how do you see the global economy today? >> well, the global economy faced a major crisis in 2008 with the clams of the banking industry in the united states and clearly the united states took some positions to safe

guard that situation and somewhat how was destabilized but right now something more serious which is the sovereign risk of certain countries and especially in europe. and this is impacting the whole world's economy. and also the internal bickering in the united states between the republicans and democrats also not helping finding final solution for the annual debt. >> rose: for the united states to get its own economic house in order. >> because the united states economic situation is not very good. >> rose: let's look at this region by leagues, so many people believe that what they did with the european community bank was a measure that brought some stability. do you believe that? >> he is a very capable man, no doubt about that and taking a very firm decisions, right now it is important to see what is going to happen to greece, because it is very easy to have greece go out of that union, but the question, if greece goes out you are setting a precedent whereby the integrity of this

whole union may be put into question. and it is a fright for sarkozy and the other european nations to keep greece there at any cost. it is very dangerous. >> rose: it is very dangerous to keep greece this at any cost because it is going to be costly because in greece they have not even approved the -- >> rose: they have to engage. so are you pessimistic that europe will be able to deal with its problems and therefore will threaten the global economy? >> well there is no doubt that europe is a time bomb because you see the economics of economies of all of those countries is not doing well at all. the annual budget is high, and greece is really the model right now and we are trying to witness what can happen there. >> rose: okay. in the united states, there is some hope about the economic recovery, the job numbers are down 8.3 percent. >> the position of the united states with all of the bickering

that is happening between obama and the republicans and the house, still the u.s. is able to grow 2.8 percent and have unemployment go down to 8.3 and the home sales are up so there is major improvement right now in the economy, a small indication in the right direction. >> rose: there is a feeling that this american decline has been over blown, robert kagan has written a book to that point, the president, obviously, has said that he has taken notice of it. do you believe the american decline is over blown? >> i definitely believe that the american -- the so-called american decline, american decline is greatly exaggerated. i think the united states, is way ahead of everybody else. look at renovation, look at what is the concept -- the united states. look what happened when the united states debt was down graduated gras, downgraded, so that is the confidence. the united states is can do -- i

mean if the political bickering stops in both parties and is unified, i could also what happened between reagan and the republicans and democrats, between can clinton and gingrich and now able to consolidate and work together, i think there is no way but for republicans and tells to work together, even in election years. >> rose: how do you see china? >> in china everything is controlled and managed by the government, as you know. >> rose: yes. >> and. >> rose: they can create a stimulus overnight. >> sure. and look at china, you have the economic system is very much capital-lific capitalistic. >> so these two cannot go forever and clearly china has to grow by seven, eight percent at least so no social upheavals take application or social unrest, so china has no choice but to grow at that rate, because if you look the east coast is growing by good rates and the capital is high there, the more you go west the wage is 50 to $100. >> rose: yes and that creates a social tension.

and it might even create unemployment for those people who went to the coast to get jobs. >> exactly. >> rose: all right. let me turn to you, and your investments in america. citicorp. how do you see citicorp today in your relationship with -- >> well, i just saw before he left for the far east, and it is very promising. very optimistic about 2012, 13, 14. and the proof of that is that it was, what is public obviously, he announced citibank will begin giving some capital back to its shareholder, either through a share buyback program or through dividends. >> rose: which is what you have been encouraging him to do? >> well, do both, obviously. dividend is important but also share buyback is important, so i think getting back some capital to the shareholders is important and on the right track, and i think it will be better. >> rose: has he been a good ceo? >> i think he has been an excellent ceo.

a high profile and working internally to stabilize the situation and right now looking for growth. >> rose: and he has your support? >> oh, yes. >> rose: strong support for his leadership at citicorp and happy with your investment in citicorp and you see the stock going up? >> no doubt. i mean, he is doing a spectacular job and the situation of citigroup was very grave and he was able to stabilize the situation, and now -- >> rose:. >> would not have been able to do it without the government stepping in. >> for sure. like many other banks also. >> rose: indeed. another investment you have is in apple. many people wonder about apple after steve job's death. do you? >> well, the legacy of steve jobs and the strength of steve jobs is that he established a company that is moving and clicking very well. clearly, i think for the next five, six quarters, this will be still the legacy of steve jobs. i think maybe two years from now, we will see what happens with the new management. >> rose: still benefitting from the decisions he put in place? >> yes, for sure. right now we are seeing the legacy of steve jobs. >> rose: there is news corp. they went th crisis in

london. hacking. tell me how you reeked to that and whether you think that had a serious detrimental impact on news corp. >> >> my family goes back for many years and i met him today and meemeting more tomorrow they are not just any allies and friend, they invested, i invested in them and they invested in my -- >> rose: right. >> so clearly, and in five continents that involved so much in, you are bound to have a rotten apple, and that was excised and taken out. >> rose: are you sure. >> for sure that is what murdoch and james murdoch told me and would like to put them behind them. remember rupert murdoch, was in the house of kingdoms said it is the most humble day of my life. >> rose: anything that happened in your hacking scandal diminish your support for james

murdoch? >> i mean how could this happen when this happened in a newspaper, how could this be affecting my relationship with james murdoch? he was not involved in that process at all no, he made decisions and the families in the uk and he is settling with everybody else. so my support to james is there because they are not involved in it. i will say the people that are in that bogs should be fired completely. >> rose: you suggested to the people this he should fire rebecca brooks and she was fired immediately after that. >> rose: so you were responsible for her being fired. >> no, i don't claim that at all because rupert would not have continued with them anyway but ethics and moral are very important to me in any dealings and i know james but not involved in the process at all. >> rose: what do you think of fox broadcasting, the fox news company run by roger ahls. >> i think it is doing great. >> rose: you are happy with news corp and the murdoch happy and rupert and james murdoch and

still support james murdoch the way you did the last time you were here? >> that's why i am voting and keeping it. >> rose: there is twitter now. you have 300 million, $400 million investment in twitter, how did that happen? >> you have to understand that my company has invested a long time ago in apple computer and amazon, ebay, and many other. >> rose: i understand that, right. >> so we are in the business, obviously so investing in the continuation of us looking at those business opportunities at the early stage, twitter right now i just finished from being an adventure capital phase to getting into maturity level. >> rose: right. >> and we believe we came at the right time and that the potential for growth is spectacular and great. >> rose: why. >> all right right now they have 100 million users and more than 50 million tweets every day and this could go dramatically higher, and the potential for twitter is dramatic and high. >> rose: it is said that you made your investment after you

saw the russian make my investment. is that fair? >> no, i don't even know the man, who is this guy. >> rose: you know of him. he was one of the early angel investors or one of the early investors. in twitter and in facebook also. he is coming back with a huge amount of -- >> when we invest in a company we do our homework and we analyze the company and we make projections and we take action. >> rose: you don't know uri milner. >> i know some russian guy invested, sure, but -- >> rose: do you think twitter can be able to monetize -- >> today, the cfo, and i think they are on the right track and i believe they can monetize, yes. >> rose: what else are you looking at in the technology area. >> clearly i can't divulge and talk about which companies we are looking at, but we are a holding company that invests all over the globe, and we are looking at the opportunities and we see that they have a good

potential and good hope. >> rose: anybody else on the landscape we should take a look at because you believe they also have a huge potential? >> did you get in on facebook or not? >> no. >> rose: do you regret missing that? >> no, no. good luck for them. we can't be involved in all sections of companies, but i think good luck to them. i think facebook is a big force to be reckoned with and i think the ip will be very successful. >> rose: and put the valuation on facebook of what. >> right now between 75 and 100, we will have to wait and see. >> rose: there is also this. the princess, your wife, is an avid user of twitter, she tweets, and also rupert murdoch does it of did you have any suggestion on rupert he should look at twitter and make some tweets? >> no. i think when i invested in twitter, just three, four days later, he began to tweeting and the rumors say i influenced him. i hope i influenced him but that is good for him to have such a good man of high caliber like

hubert rupert to use twitter. >> rose: i want to talk to your wife and talk about how she sees the world and women's empowerment and especially in the region and her and her relationships. tell me how, introduce her for this audience. >> well, prince amira is a commoner, she is from a saudi type, very mixed type, and i got introduced to her and then we got married, and she is very high profile lady. she is very aggressive. and she believes in women empowerment and women's rights and he is a vice chairman of my foundation which is involved in philanthropy and projects internationally. >> rose: we will take a break and be right back and be joined by the princess. we continue our conversation with princess alta we'll, she is

the vice chairman of the woman of the alwaleed bin talal, amira al-taweel foundation. i am pleased to have both of them at the same time at this table. you were saying to me as you introduced her and as we statistic down together he is the first princess of saudi arabia to do what? >> well, i think i will let her talk. she was -- he is the first princess in saudi arabia to go public and to advance the cause of woman and to the defense saudi arabia and the arab cause. >> rose: tell me what you are doing. and welcome to the program. >> thanks for having me to your show, i am very pleased, it is an excellent show. very informative. i think that maybe i was the first to appear publicly in the media, but i was definitely not the first when it came to philanthropy and trying to reach out to other women out there and there are many princesses that i

admire in the royal family who have been very active with the public. but it is very hard to be in the media with, of course, our conservative line in the country, but i believe in what i am doing. i am doing a lot of amazing projects with a great team through the foundation, we are listening to a lot of people, we are bringing a lot of people with on the table with us, to help us make decisions and listen to them, and support them, so that is the great thing that i can do. >> rose: tell me the things that you want to see changed. in the arab world and in saudi arabia. >> there are a lot of things we want to see changed. arab spring, i think, voices out the main frustrations, unemployment, political participation, freedom of speech, we want a lot of things to change. but it has to be a collaborative effort between government,

public -- private sector and ngos and i think this is the best way to go through this big challenge that we have ahead of us, and if as the foundation which we are both very passionate about, we work very closely with government entities, with civil society we try to network and bring them together to create a better environment for this generation and the generations to come. >> rose: for the empowerment of women, what does saudi arabia have to do? >> a lot of things. but in my own perspective i can't speak on behalf of the government or what the government should do. i can speak about us women and what we want to happen and it only can happen through us, i think that. >> rose: through women? >> women gathering together. >> rose: making the case for their own individualality and their own universal -- >> through democratic ways, and i think that there is a certain law being for saudi women to get

together, women leader, women lawyers together you will see women doctor together and creating a certain lobby to voice out their voices out there, and the decisions of the king to have women vote in municipal elections and members of the shura the not come out of nowhere, there was a movement from saudi women and they gathered for municipal elections saying we have to vote there is nothing in the law that says we can't vote and because of that movement, because of that gathering of women, we saw the ripple effect which was the decisions to have women vote. so women are gaining their rights themselves and i would love to see them gather more, voice out their concerns more, and just continue through the channel. >> rose: what about, what about customs such as how much of you covering your head. >> veil, yes. >> what about traditions like women driving? where are you on those issues? >> okay. now with the veil it is a

choice, you know, veiled women are definitely respected and women who are not are not, we all pray and we all believe in our religion, and at the end of the day god is the one who makes the judgment, nobody is allowed to judge anyone. that is number one. i am not against the veil. i support it fully and i don't think women who are veiled who i know are against me. it is not a matter of who is against who. it is a matter of believing what we do. >> rose: but you want to leave that choice to women? >> exactly. it is our choice at the end of the day. it is not the choice of, you know -- with your faces the your own choices and god will judge you based on your choices. it is not what someone will dictate on you to do. that is number one. number 2, when it comes to women driving, i don't think it is a tradition. women used to ride horses, camels, even women used to drive when cars first came. i think it was introduced to us in a taboo way by close minded mind-sets and my opinion it is

going to go away gradually but women have to voice out their concerns, they have to, they have to gather as a certain mass and through being together it will be stronger than just one person voicing out their position. >> i am told there are some place ms. the desert you can see you driving a jeep; is that right? >> yes. yes. i don't advise you to be with me in the car. i don't go through bumps very quickly. sometimes i drive home. >> rose: oh, you to? >> yes. >> rose: your chauffeur? >> it doesn't bother me. >> rose: you are proud of her? >> yes. very proud of her doing a good job of advancing the position of women in saudi arabia and saudi arabia itself. >> rose: and if they have a place in government and society and the culture. >> 50 percent of the civilization is idle, they should be equally.

>> there has been some controversy in the family, though, has there not? i mean, i have seen statements of people speaking out. >> sure, i mean not everybody. >> rose: close members of the family. >> not everybody is is happy with what the prince princess is doing but if we believe in something we will do it all the way we won't stop -- >> what is all the way for you? >> you know, i don't know for me, because for me it is a journey. >> rose: there is no end point? >> there is no end ... it is a journey and channel. i don't think of it as a struggle. i think all women face these challenges. i have met the wives of ambassadors of saudi wives from 15 countries and we sat together and we all shared the same challenges, we all share the same struggles as women, but at the same time, we are championing our cause and we are talking ourselves, we don't want anyone to talk on our behalf. and it is very hypocritical for men to gather and talk about women, in my opinion because you

really don't know what it feels like until you live it and you can't live it if you not a woman. >> rose: both of us free with that. >> and for us, we are trying to make change, for example, at the foundation we have our women leaders program which falls under women power initiative where we gather women leaders, women doctors, women professors from different fields and highlight them in the media and create them as role models for other young leaders who are rising into society, which doesn't exist in saudi arabia, nobody knows the success story of dr. hashid trying to discover cures for cancer, nobody knows the stories of nadia, the secretary general of the youth foundation one of the first engineers in saudi arabia, so it is to highlight the stories of these women in the media and to create them as role models that is one program we are going and of course we are here and tomorrow we are going to go to boston for the centers meeting which we are very excited for which falls under our cultural,

global cultural dialogue, interfaith dialogue program, and all these centers that are in great universities, harvard, georgetown, american university in beirut and the american university -- >> rose: there is also this with respect to you, you gave a significant contribution to the louvre to establish the islamic art wing and significant contribution to harvard and georgetown. there is also islamic art seems to be getting a lot of attention. >> yes. >> rose: speak to that, both of you. >> we are trying to -- after 9/11, clearly there was a big wound between west and east, islam and christianity and saudi arabia and united states, so there is a burden on not only the government, but also the private sector and yours to try to bridge the gap as much as we can so we have decided as my foundation, to work in academia, establish a function in georgetown and harvard, all of them by islamic christian center and in cambridge and also

establish centers in american university, in cairo to speak and teach in the american system and now we are putting them all together in a fine manner to tried to have a unified voice all together, to take the world of academia to bridge the gap between communities and religions. >> >> and islamic arts are very important, i think arts are a beautiful way to send a different message, i think islam is an amazing religion, very peaceful, very loving, unfortunately, there has been this stigma that has been going on in the west about islam, and i think arts are the way or the means to create another message that islam really brings a spirit of love and care and passion for peace in the world. and that is what the islamic arts in the louvre is doing and bringing amazing pieces from islam history, and putting them there for millions of people to see and i think it is going to

change some mind-sets g. >> you have said, quote i have been a common girl most of my life and my mother, my aunt go through every, what every ordinary saudi women go through, you said, you also said i married a prince but i haven't changed. >> yes. >> rose: but you have gained more and more voice and more and more sense of a mission, it seems. >> yes. and i think it is because of the doors that were opened to me, the network that was created that taught may lot of things, i mean, just sitting with politicians, people from philanthropy, understanding hair stories and journeys and sitting with simple people and understanding their own struggles and their own aspirations i think i gained a lot from it as an experience, but as a person, as a character, and the things i believe in haven't changed. >> rose: thank you for coming. it is a pleasure to meet you. >> thank you so much. it was a pleasure meeting you. >> rose: thank you very much, good to have you hear.

good to have you here. ♪ captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. >> and american express. additional if you believing provided by these funders. the additional funding provided by these funders. .. andably bloomberg. a provider of multimedia and news and information services worldwide. be more.