republican politics, the michigan and arizona returns and the upcoming supered it. >> his favorability rating has dropped 20 points in the course of this primary, which is extremely unusual in the course of a primary to drop that far in

a presidential primary so he goes in the general election in a much different place than barack obama was going in a general election in 2008, where barack obama increased his favorability by 20 points. mitt romney has to figure out a way to win a campaign positively. >> rose: we conclude this evening with william shatner of ""star trek"" and movie and television fame and now on broadway in a one-man show. >> i go to the door, and it's a little boy. yes. he says are you "captain kirk?" i said, "yeah." ( laughter ) he says, "is this your spaceship?" ( laughter ) and i recognized the thing standing on the-- on-- and this thing on the moon. "yeah." "can i come in and see your spaceship, captain kirk?" "come on in." ( laughter ) take him to the stove. ( laughter ) ( applause )

this is where i guide the spaceship. "oh, ." >> can i make a point at at my age my life might have some meaning and since we ask ourselves in varies ways who am i and what am i doing-- and that's a rhetorical question because there is no answer-- if i present to you some of these fact can you give me an answer? so became this magnificent-- i hope-- obsession of doing this one-man show in such a manner that it would be effective and well received and bring in an audience. >> rose: the murdoch story in lopped, the political story in the united states, and the shatner story on broadway when we continue.

s. >> rose: james murdoch stepped down today as executive chairman of news international, the british newspaper arm of news corp, for the first time since 1969 no member of the murdoch family will have a role in managing. a wide phone hacking scandal embroiled the company in controversy. he will remain news corp's deputy chief operating officer and will concentrate on expanding the company's television business. joining me here in new york andrew edgecliffe-johnson of the "the financial times,"" john burns from the "new york times." john, tell me what this means and why did it happen now? >> well, if you read the company announcement, you'd think it was just kind of a routine reshuffle, lots of congratulations for all that was accomplished by james murdoch from his years in london. but you only have to step back

to take a look at this to see whose happened here is they've taken him out of the game in britain at a time when the scandal is not relenting, intensifying, when, by all appearances, criminal prosecutions cannot be far away. his farther has come in here at 80y years old, assumed direct control, as far as we can see, of the "sun" tabloid, to try and right the ship. so it seems to me this is a pretty dark day for james murdoch and not such a good day for news corp. >> rose: and lock landmurdoch accompanied his farther, went with him to london to the "sun" newsroom. >> yes, that really tipped off what we saw today. 10 days ago rupert murdoch flies in from new york to take control of affairs at the "sun" to fight back, as he declared, steak a sunday edition for his six-day-a-week tabloid, walks into the newsroom on the first

morning, shirtsleeves and who is at his right-hand, not james murdoch, the heir-parent, the 39-year-old son, but lock land murdoch, 40 years old, the older son who himself was heir apparent until 2005 when he fell out with his farther and other news corp executives and went off to astalleddia. it looked pretty clear then the succession order had changed. >> rose: what do you make of this, henry? >> i think james murdoch is not a man who cedes territory willingly and what we saw today is he had to give up an empire inside an empire after given this job, a new division created for him, news corp in asia. the idea of that role that he got at the end of 2007 was to prove to the board, prove to the world and to new york, where he was leswell known that he had the chops to take over the country one day. >> rose: james murdoch never cared about the newspaper business like his farther did.

>> everybody says he doesn't have ink in the blood in the same way. lock hand has had experience operating the "new york post." he was in australia and was rumored to be in line to take over the papers there. there's a theor one way news corp might insulate shareholders a little from the scandal is to let lock land take over a spun-off company, where the newspaper is barely recognized for their value in news corporation. they're more of a liability. >> rose: john, tell me what we learned from this woman named sue acres, who is doing the investigation. >> it really was something of a turning point. our attention has been focussedly the last nine months on "news of the world" the tabloid murdoch turned down when it turned out one of the people, one of the phones hacked was the abducted teenager millido youer. certainly we have sue acres, the

assistant commissioner of scotland yard, testifying before a judicial inquiry here in london about what appears to be a still more serious scandal and that is the bribery by the "sun" newspaper-- that is to say, the tabloid sister, the daily sister of the "news of the world--" the bribery of government officials, members of the armed forces, and police officers, on an industrial scale. she spoke of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year of retainers being paid, of reporters getting tens of thousands of dollars in expenses to pay cash payments to public officials for information. and she spoke very much as so-- she's operated independently by the way of scotland yard under what's called the independent police complaints commission. she sounded very much as though she is spoiling for criminal prosecutions which will be a very serious matter for news

corp, since it will, we believe, it will intensify scrutiny of all of this in washington, d.c. under the foreign corrupt practices act. >> rose: so what is the threat to news corp? rupert murdoch's media empire? >> well, there's the reputational threat. but increasingly, i think, it's worth looking at the cost of all of this. we've been looking at settlements out of court, settlements of lawsuits by those who have been hacked and as you know, scotland yard had said that there were more than 800 people of whom some, roughly speaking, 200-plus, 230, perhaps, have actually laid off said is that they will lay lawsuits. they've begun to settle those lawsuits. and the figures we were seeing 130,000 pounds for jude law, for example, the actor, have not, in many cases, lesser payments, included the legal claimants-- that is to say the payments of

the legal costs. and we know of one case of somebody who got a settlement in the tens of thousands of pounds, who is bound, not to say so publicly but has told us publicly that he had 200,000 pounds in legal costs. that's, if i quickly do the math, that's 300-- well over $300,000 in legal costs. if you multiply that by the numbers, dozens, scores, actually, of lawsuits yet to come and you add in the close-down costs of the news the world, news corporation's own legal costs, you're beginning, as that famous american senator say, pretty soon you're talking real money. >> rose: that was dirkson. when you-- when you look at the defense, what is rupert murdoch's defense in this, and james murdoch's murder defense in this? where are they drawing the line? >> what we haven't seen yet is an absolute killer e-mail which

says this was authorized by james murdoch or rupert murdoch. so this is partly a question of where the evidence leads us. and sue acres this week said that these corrupt payments, a very wide range of public officials, were authorized and approved at a very senior level at "news international." we don't know quite what she's talking about there and i think the fate of james murdoch will partly lie in the answer to that and also in the imiment announcement from the house of commons select committee on media, what they make of his testimony. i think the defense strategy is to try to put a series of firewalls between rupert and the board and the scandal. and it looked as a while andy coulson, the former editor of "news of the world" would be firewell -- >> all are gone. >> and closer and closer to rupert murdoch, and i think the

hope now that this can be contained in the u.s. but this week's revelations about industrial scale corrupt payments, as john says, do heighten the risk of a prosecution in the u.s. under the foreign corrupt practices act. but at the moment, i think that is hard to call. will we see a campaigning prosecutor decide to pursue that? will we see great political will to go after very important media titles, channels like fox news and-- especially on the side of election, will we see political momentum there? i think what is happening the d.o.j., s.e.c, and f.b.i., who all have open investigations into news corp, are waiting to see what comes out of the primary investigation in london before they really decide how hard to pursue that. >> rose: do we know judge joel klein is, the former assistant

attorney general in the clinton administration, or do we know what role he is playing after being chancellor of schools in new york? >> we don't. we saw him sitting behind the two murdochs, rupert and james, during their appearance before the parliamentary committee on culture, media, and sport, last summer, looking quite inscrutable, and i have to say, impeccably dressed. >> rose: you would know impeccable dressing, wouldn't you? >> i would know it, ages the chinese would say, education by negative example, as you can see. >> rose: republican laws-- >> we know he plays an important role, and a committee, the management and standards committee to root through, as they said, all evidence, mostly in the form of documentar evidence e-mails 300 million of

them, at the "news" and "sun," that committee has taken a pretty hard line and has been handing over information to scotland yard which has resulted in some of those 30 arrests that have been made. no charges. i think it's important to say, to be fair to james murdoch, that he's not been questioned by the police, not as least as far as we know. he's certainly not been arrested. and he is always spoken as if he's confident, not only that he has no finger prints on this but they won't be able to prove that he has got finger prints on it. i think the attention of the investigators may very well focus on the question of his testimony to the parliamentary committee -- >> so it's about perjury not something he did? >> well, i'm avoiding using the word because i think we need to be very careful here and not get ahead of the scotland yard investigation. it just seems to me very significant that as of yet, he has not been questioned, and certainly not arrested.

>> rose: and what about the-- elizabeth murdoch, the daughter that rupert has always put in the category of people that might succeed him? >> as you know there have been reports, and we've heard them, too, from our sources, that there has been a tremendous simmering family feud over there and elizabeth and her husband, matthew freud, who is a major figure in world of public relations here, have been pressing the case on rupert murdoch, that james had to go, that he had prejudiced the legacy, that he had severely damaged the brand, the reputation, and that they've been making those arguments, certainly, since rupert murdoch came here to manage the "news of the world" scandal last summer. it's clearly-- it's a dynastic struggle and presents rupert murdoch with a really serious problem. >> rose: so who is running the

empire now and who will continue to run the empire? >> well, i think when rupert murdoch is able to fly in in to london and announce a new newspaper will launch at a week's notice, it tells you the job titles on some people's business cards don't count for very much. there's one man calling the shots, and i think as long as he is still walking around that will be the case. clearly, today's news strengthens the case of chase carrie, the chief operating officer. he's sort of the answer to everybody's problem. his surname isn't murdoch. so whenever some trouble crops up in some corner of the empire, chase is sent in to go and calm things down. i think you're right to focus on the potential for lockland or elizabeth to come back into the frame. i would say it's not-- we shouldn't rule out the idea that james could still come back into the frame once the dust has settled, five, 10 years from now, if he can make a great job of running the international television businesses.

>> rose: which are important to the future of news corp. >> and i think that is his hope. this is his strong suit. he's most comfortable in the world of television. if he can find real growth, anainternational expansion story there, maybe he can redeem himself. if the scandal in london doesn't-- it is still very, very early in this saga. we have so many unknowns still to resolve. >> rose: it's important to underline the fact that james murdoch, as john said, james murdoch has neither acknowledged any-- in any way and has protested in fact. murdoch is really that he didn't make the scandal go away. on his watch, whatever else happened or didn't happen, the hope was he could put a lid on this. >> rose: that's the judgment of management ability more than anything else? >> exactly. what we've heard from the m.p.s on the house common select committee has been a very

damning indictment of him as an executive. in the last appearance he made before them, it almost felt as though they were setting out to undermine his credibility, which-- when he stepped up to the new job he had an exceptional reputation. >> rose: and a merger was about to take place. >> exactly. his hope was he would have one of the biget chunks of his farther's empire, and the most cash generative, and who cares about the newspapers when you've got this incredible satellite business. >> rose: who cares about the newspapers is rupert murdoch. >> yes. >> rose: thank you, great to see you. john burns, as always a pleasure to have you on this program and i thank you again for coming to us from cake. we didn't win by i lot, but we won by enough and she that's all that counts. that's what mitt romney said last night after his narrow 3% victory in hirsh began and that pretty much sums up the state of

the g.o.p. presidential race. romney cruised through arizona, even though, hes continued questions over why he cannot connect with the party base. rick santorum has done better but that was not enough. they face their biggest test super tuesday. ron paul was on the hill today to question amalie benjamin keek the other three candidates conservatisming in crucial station. romney was in ohio, romney was in tennessee, and gingrich was in georgia. >> this president has made some promises that he hasn't been able to keep. it's amazing he has been such a failure. he's out of ideas. he's out of excuses, and in 2012, we're going to make sure he's out of office. we have a lot of wind at our backs heading into tennessee and we'll be taking it all across super tuesday states and we are going to have a great day a week from yesterday. ( cheers and applause ).

>> if you help me next tuesday-- next tuesday is very important. georgia is the biggest state in delegates on super tuesday. so we have a real chance here to send a signal to the country, but we need your help to do it. >> joining me are alhunt, al murphy and matt dowd right here with me at the table. i'll begin with al hunt. where does this go from here, other than ohio? >> well, it goes to ohio next week, charlie. one thing about last night, you taught me, i guess, years ago, it's better to win ugly than it is to lose ugly. >> rose: yes. >> and mitt romney won ugly but an ugly loss or pretty loss would have been devastating for him and thrown the whole process into total chaos. i think romney is certainly where we thought he was weeks ago. he's a-- he's not only the front-runner. it's very hard to see how anyone else gets this nomination. but, you know, he has to hope that t.s. elliot was wrong, that

april is not the cruelest month, because february was really a cruel month for mitt romney. if we go back to february 1, he had just won florida. it looked like he had a smooth path to the nomination. everyone agreed he was a better candidate than four years ago. he traversed fault line between the movement conservatives and the mainstreams. none of that is true today. i mean, all of that is in doubt, at least. so he's still a front-runner, but, boy, he say really weakened front-runner. >> rose: mike, you see what a classy political show this is. we're quoting t.s. elliot in the first question. ( laughter ). >> well, you know, i do agree with al. it doesn't matter when you miss a guillotine blade if it's three inches or three feet and romney was looking at the sharp end 24 hours ago in michigan. he won. now the question is how he can roll the table. i think santorum blew it. he could have broken the romney campaign in michigan, but after the narrowing of the base, his appeal only to the social conservatives, i think he's going to be an all the-ran.

the good news is mitt is going to get luck next week. i'm calling it the brezhnev primary. that will give him delegates for free. he'll get massachusetts, and in idaho, the mormon vote will help him out. the question is what can we win in the south. you have oklahoma, tennessee, georgia, and ohio and he has to do well at least in two of those, or he'll hit the rocks again, at least in perception. >> rose: i want to come back to what romney should do now but i want to stay with the notion of michigan. i take no pride asking questions in the evening they ask in the morning, but this question-- did romney win this or did santorum lose it? >> santorum lost this. i totally agree with mike. if he had performed well at the debate and put together an economic populace message that went to his blue collar background, he would have won michigan and i think the blood would have been in the water, and the sharks would have surrounded him and he could not have recovered from that.

in the end, rick santorum lost that. ultimately, why rick santorum had a chance which is why everybody else has a chance is mitt romney is a very weak candidate for the republican party. that has been the case through this entire process, and he's never been able to close the deal. he's never been able to appeal to the majority of the republican party. the fact that rick santorum was in this at all and could have won that is mainly because mitt romney is a very weak republican candidate. >> rose: and, therefore, the question can he do anything-- go ahead, mike. >> no, i agree with matt that mitt's got problems but i put one big asterisk on it. mitt's proven to be a fairly weak candidate in the republican primaries. the problem is in this kind of excited year in both bases, you can become a very good republican primary candidate and simultaneously become a very, very bad general election candidate, and mitt's in a tough position of being hurt on both sides by trying to please both sides. it's rough terrain this year to run in the republican primary and not hurt yourself in the long run. >> rose: i want to open this

up to all of you. what can mitt romney do now, other than amass enough delegates to win the nomination, what can he do to enhance winning the delegation and the kind of strength to go after barack obama? >> i think that is the main thing he has to do. i think he will accumulate the delegates he needs. even if he loseaise number of states on super tuesday, he's going to win more delegates that day than anybody else by virtue of where he is and his strength in multiple states, so he will win the delegate map in the states. he has to begin to say how do i position myself better for the fall and against barack obama? for me he has to quickly coalesce the republicans around him. he has to do that and the only way he can do that right now at this point is win, and win consistently, put together somews together, which nobody has done in this race. i think more importantly, he has to come up with a message that is positive, that is forward look looking that the republican

party, conservatives, whoever they are can rally behind. his favorability rating has dropped 20 points in the course of this primary which is extremely unusual in the course of a primary to drop that far in a presidential primary. he goes in the general election in a much different place than barack obama was going in a general election in 2008, where barack obama increased his favorability by 20 points. mitt romney has to figure out a way to win a campaign positively. >> rose: did he begin to do that a little at the end of the campaign? >> i agree. >> rose: go ahead, mike. you agree? >> no, no, i concur. me has won with the big stick and the money, and i think after super tuesday, if he wins ohio, picks up a southern state or two, tennessee, et cetera, and gets that delegate map argument working, it's time to start to look at the general election, and triangulate a little bit. he has to go out and lose an alabama primary to send a message to the general election with a positive message not just pure base orthodoxy and anger it's very important for him. it will be painful in the primary but that's the price of

getting his positives back up because without them the obama guys will keep him back on his heels. he will will have to pivot and a sharper message of what he can do for the country and less than what is wrong with everybody else. >> charlie, i agree with mike, but they say two-step and perceptions matter. this is really probably not about delegates because as i said it's hard to make a case for anybody else. there is three threats of of primaries, the people's republican of vermont, massachusetts, they're mitt romney. the caucuses in the west, i hate to say this to my friends out there, no one is going to pay any attention to. there are two others that matter, ohio on the one hand, and the southern arc, oklahoma, tennessee, georgia. mitt has to win ohio and he doesn't have to win one of the other three, i don't believe, but he has to have a respectable showing. he can't be down in the 20s and if he can do that, then the inevitability argument is there and he can start that pivot, that segue, if you will, towards

the message. and not only does he need a message. he has to stop saying silly things which he has done repeatedly for the last six weeks. >> rose: and this is not his first run. why does that continue to happen? >> to me it feels a lot like what happened to gerald ford and other people. once a vulnerability or weakness emerges it seems to replicate itself, whether consciously or unconsciously, the weakness replicates itself until you're deliberative enough in your process to overcome. what i've seen in the last two or three weeks with mitt romney is he's made more mistakes instead of less in the course of the campaign and that happens sometimes to candidates that don't have that discipline that they need. >> rose: mike. >> it becomes a feedback loop, too. they feel the pressure and they double down nay weird way and get off kind of the music. butted media hears one and starts looking harder for the next and the next and the next and it becomes a narrative. i'll put one footnote on the michigan. this is at a republican primary but only 60% of the voters were republicans.

you had a lot of independents, a few democrats. mitt romney carried the blue collar u.a.w. counties in michigan. he won macomb county, catholic, blue collar auto work county. santorum didn't do as well there. in the county where they make cadillacs, famous cadillac gap, mitt romney won by eight point, double his statewide margin. mitt romney can play off key and he gets in trouble but some of these gaffs may be gaffes in our beltway analyst world but out on the streets of michigan, there's nothing wrong buying a cadillac. >> rose: how about two for your wife? how about that? >> or three. mitt should have gone and bought a third one up there at the plant. i think we found out from election night that some of the conventional wisdom about romney not connecting to the blue collar parts of the state was not quite right. >> this is why i think he's in trouble for the general election. to me this is like a football game where you want to make the play-offs, you're about to make the playoffs, put all your

players, they get injured in the last game of the season playing the kansas city chiefs now have to face the new york giants in the play-offs. he's going to have a bunch of injured players, and he is. he's going to be very vulnerable and he did it in order to win a primary where in the end he has to winter general election. he is going to go into the general election incredibly weak against a guy, president obama, who everybody thought was ready for the picking. >> rose: speak for a moment, al bpresident obama and how he is viewing all of this. >> well, he's loving tobviously. if you look at polls, there's been a seismic shift in the last five or six weeks. five or six weeks ago we were talking about michigan and pennsylvania being in play. today it shows obama winning by double digits and close races in places like arizona and even tennessee. i don't think that has very much to do with anything barack obama has done. i really don't believe that most people believe at this stage the economy is coming back. i think it is almost totally a product of the bad brand that

the wherein-- brand name that the republicans have created for themselves, and barack obama becomes the beneficiary. at some point that will change. so i think things look very good for him on february 29, but we've all been around long enough ton at this stage, bill clinton looked like he was in pretty bad shape. even ronald reagan didn't look that strong. romney has a long-- you know he has a long haul and he can turn things around, but, boy, he has to turn them around because he has had a very bad month. >> rose: mike, if you were writing a speech for him to start the campaign in ohio what, would you say? what would be the theme of your speech? >> well, i would be-- i'd be back to laser beam on jobs. i'd take a positive tack to the campaign. i would not use the candidate mitt as the voice of negative attacks. that's what you have surrogates for and advertising for. i think mitt ought to run as a strong coach.

define the job to fit your guy. mitt is a tough business guy who delivers results. he shouldn't be the lovable smiling guy. they think he is a rich wall street shark. that's a bad thing, but if you can turn the job of president into somebody who does more than talk, actually delivers, a tough coach kind of argument, then you fit the job to the guy and you can make the argument. so i want less smiling salesman. i want more tom landry. >> i totally agree with mike on this. i think-- get him out of jeans. mitt romney does not look natural in blue jeans. make him the business manager he is -- >> the competent, results-oriented manager. >> let him present some powerpoints at some meet ago. >> rose: ross pero redone. >> let him do what he does naturally. don't try to make him style smiley guy. even if he's cool and comes across as cold let him be the authentic person he is. his biggest problem is authenticity. let him be a manager.

>> rose: does that resonate with you, mike? >> bet on what you've got. >> rose: albert? >> it does. and i think we have correctly focused on mitt romney, because that really is the story. however, charlie, let me just say, i don't believe that newt gingrich can come back, and i don't believe that rick santorum could come back you and the butt i didn't think they could come back before. every rule we have known in politics has been thrown out somehow in this cycle. i agree with everything mike and matthew said about michigan. mitt romney won it, but really more than, that rick santorum lost it. can he get his act together and deliver an economic message in ohio or after attacking jack kennedy, will he go after mother teresa next? i don't know. i think conventional wisdom says he cbut that is an important test, too. >> i think-- i think-- i don't think newt gingrich has a window to come back in this. i think he had his number of lives. he may win georgia and then hopefully gracefully leave. he may not. that would be the time to leave, win georgia and leave.

i think there is a small window in this race for rick santorum. it's small but the first thing he has to do is win the washington cautious on saturday to blunt the momentum. and then he has to win ohio on super tuesday, maybe pick up one of the smaller states, north dakota, whatever, but regain a little of that. he has a small window, but i think mitt romney is still vulnerable. he's the front-runner and regained some of his status but i think there is a small window. i don't know if rick santorum can take advantage of it-- that exists for rick santorum to cause a lot of trouble. >> the best gift mitt got out of winning michigan beyond missing a death experience, he now looks a bit like a winner, the spotlight is on him, the big microphone is on him for a week. this is the time to change up the message in a non-cynical and authenticity-based way and break santorum in ohio. so mitt's got seven days to really, in my view, change the narrative, use it as a messaging

opportunity and take back control of the race. if he keeps doing the same stuff he could get in trouble again. >> rose: mike, thank you very much. albert, thank you. it william shatner is here, a classically trained actor who has had one of the most varied years around. he has done everything from shakespeare's "henry roam 5" to the cult classic ""star trek"." here is a look at some of his work. >> he did not kill my farther. >> how did he know? >> i know my brother's heart and soul. >> how long have you been here, captain? >> two years. >> two years. that's a long time. >> yes, sir. >> any friends? >> sure. german friends? >> yes. >> girls? >> yes. i thought if anybody was going to indoctrinate rinnate her, it might as well be me.

>> don't look at me like that. >> bob. >> i am not imagining it. i'm not imagining it. he's out there. don't look! he's out there now. he-- jumps away whenever anyone might see him. except me. >> trapped forever with a raving mad man at your throat until time itself came to a stop for eternity. how would it be? >> t.j. hooker is the name. but you don't have to lose any sleep wondering what the

t.j. stands for. as far as you're concerned, my first name is sergeant. ( applause ) >> what promises to be a day of astounding musical, theatrical, and dance talents, and after i'm finished, you can see the ladies. ( laughter ) >> the worst thing about growing older, ernie, you begin to slip. one day you wake up and you're less than. and for me, i'm a legend, ernie. i'm folk lore in this town. lawyers have feared me for years, but denny crane to slip, it would diminish my legacy. it would be a tragedy. denny crane has to go out big, page one of the "globe" "new york times," even. do me a favor. pull the trigger. >> rose: his latest project say one-man show about his life. it is called "shatner's world." we just live in it. the "new york times" says if it seems moderately insane that an 80-year-old actor who gets plenty of television and film

work should suddenly be trying broadway you just haven't been paying attention to his career. the unexpected is what he does." having said, that i'm pleased to have william shatner at this table for the first time. welcome. >> indeed for the first time, and i want to tell you, i told you off screen, i watch you all the time. you're masterful. >> thank you, sir. >> and i'm so honored to be here. >> rose: we have much to talk about. this one-man show. why? >> australia called and said, how would i like to do a one-man show. i thought tell some stories, there's another guy on stage. i don't need to. no, we need another guy on stage. i open in sydney, and people leap to their feet and it's successful and i say i have a one-man show. candy, start in vancouver, montreal, toronto has the same high standardses as new york, and i-- i get through toronto. and that's it. and then suddenly, they ask me

to come to new york and that's a whole different ballgame. and so i began to obsess-- i use that word carefully-- about what to do, how to do it. can i do it? and can i make a point that at my age, my life might have some meaning. and since we all ask ourselves in various ways who am i? what am i? and what am i doing-- that's a rhetorical question because there's no answer. fipresent to you some of these facts, you can give me an answer? and so became this magnificent ob-- i hope-- obsession of doing this one-man show in such a manner that it would be effective and well received and bring in an audience. >> rose: so how has it changed from australia to broadway? >> first of all, there's one person. there's nobody saying, and then what happened." there's me editing, film editing

a literature-- a literate thing. as you might write a novel and go from a chapter in a love scene to a war scene, and the juxtaposition gives you a rhythm, so i attempt? the one-man show to play a scene and then suddenly, i'm somewhere else. and then i'm-- i literally say, "i'm sitting in..." and i paint the picture. or i might do it about music. or i might do it about love. or i might do it about a horse. opener i might do it about a show. >> rose: what might we learn about you we didn't know? >> i'm not sure. what you learn about me. what i do know is that-- and every time i've done the show, whether in australian canada, or here-- people-- and especially here-- don't just rise to their feet. they leap up and applaud and i'm overwhelmed by this emotion that

comes across. they don't know it, but i'm reduced to tears that i'm fighting because in a way there's validation. there's acceptance, there's the result of all this work, sort of. >> rose: roll tape. here's a clip. >> the next morning there's a knock on the door. who is that? i go to the door, and it's a little boy. "yes?" he says, are you captain kirk?" ( laughter ) i said, "yeah." ( laughter ) he says, "is this your spaceship?" i recognized the thing standing on the-- on the-- and this thing on the moon-- "yeah." "can i come in and see your spaceship, captain kirk?" "come on in." ( laughter ) i take him to the stove. ( laughter )

"this is where i guide the shea ship." "oh." i show him the shower. , "this is where i beam in." "oh, captain kirk, wow." "get out of here. i'm a theater actor. i need my sleep." "okay, captain kirk." he leaves. there is a middle-aged man on long island at this very moment saying to anybody who will listen to him, "i was in captain kirk's spaceship, and nothing you say will tell me otherwise!" ( applause ) >> rose: did you write this? >> all of it. >> rose: what was the hardest part about it? editing it, narrowing it down? >> see, you're a journalist. i'd say i'd wake up at 5:00 in the morning obsessed by this thing. how can i make that story the minimal number of words?

what does that kid say? what does the kid sound like? and the sounding like, which is the acting, the nuance of the-- the comical nuance of the line, what are the minimum number of words that will conivate meaning and yet get there and get on to the next story. >> rose: that's what art is about. down to its purest, finest form. >> exactly. it's what journalism is about. it's about how to write the best story. >> rose: exactly. >> it's-- it's art. >> rose: yeah. roll tape. i want to see another part of this. this is talking about christopher plummer's understud nestratford shakespeare festival's production of "henryv." >> brilliant and the play is on the sage, and somebody grabs you, you're wanted at the-- at the festival, festival office.

and guthrie's there. he goes, "young man. can you go on?" ask the excuse me?" ( laughter ) you-- you-- you want me to go on for "henryv?" i've never heard of it. i've never said the words out loud, except in the toilet. ( laughter ) i've never worn-- i don't have-- and there's going to be 2500 people with critics in the largest speaking role of the-- english language and you want me to go on?" "of course." ( laughter ). >> mary: there you go. how long is the play? >> it's an hour and-- about 1-- an hour and a half, 40 minutes, something like that. there's some, like, you "you

went 143 minutes tonight." "so what." . >> rose: so what," exactly. when you look back at your remarkable career, 50 years since you were last on broadway, 50. >> yeah, shot in the dark. i tell the story about my going on stage at the age of six. it's a lot longer than 50 years. what am i most proud of? i don't think in those terms, charlie. what i think of in terms of, for example, is what you just heard, somewhere in the last evening or two, i've-- because i've always said i go to the toilet, and when i come to declamatory speeches, i flush the toilet so nobody will hear me. but i add-- i've never said this out loud except in the toilet that night for the first time and it got a law. ang. so a little tiny little moment like that. that i sewed in is like a moment of great pride. >> rose: ""star trek"" will

always be what they say. >> i guess. >> rose: you're okay with that. >> you know, i am. i directed a documentary called "the captains." and the documentary is like finding a story. you say, "well, the guy killed the shot guy." and now you go to find out why the guy shot the guy and a story opens up and it's no longer about a shooting. it's about this guy's personality and what happened and the other person and the wife-- i'm doing this documentary, and i realize that i've sort of dissparnlged "star trek" for quite a while and i didn't really i was doing it until i got into the research on patrick stewart. and i thought, my god. i've had this disparaging attitude, this defensive attitude for years. and i had an epiphany. why? it was a great piece of art. it was wonderful. it changed a lot of people's lives and i should be very proud

of it. why am i not walking around saying, "yeah, you're right?" >> rose: roll tape. this is a scene from the documentary. >> if it were all to end this evening, everything, i would be largely known for my work on "star trek." i would be captain picard. not macbeth, not king leer, not shakespeare, but captain picard, and i am absolutely fine with that. >> wow. >> fine. >> in this instant for to you have said that, here's the gift you've given me. i've made this long journey from los angeles to london to talk to you. and the gift i got is my realization that i, too, would feel the same way if they say, that was captain kirk," all of a

surgeon i suddenly had a release to say, "i'm happy with that. why not?" >> announcer: know what is great about that, two people in real conversation, sharing the conversation and the knowledge and the impact on each other. >> isn't that the best interview to have, interviewee and interviewer are realizing something, something is building between them. i love that kind of stuff. >> rose: do you enjoy to go that? >> the documentary. i have made three or four. an award winning one, "gonzo ballet" where i examine a ballet being made. and one of what fans go to these places that-- where fans go and why. why do fans go to these conventions? and who are they? and it becomes-- suddenly it becomes part of the culture. it's no longer they're silly little people. they're people participating in a cultural event. >> rose: some people believe

that priceline.com has made you a very rich man. >> well, i'm a business major, which i refer to in the show, and so, i know a little bit about being locked up. when you have stock in an original company you're locked up for a period of time so you won't take advantage of raising the stock as high as it will go, selling out to who will buy it and you're stuck with it when it falls. i did, indeed, negotiate, getting stock in priceline.com when it first started. and it went up from $3 or $4 to hundreds of dollars. >> rose: jay way, was a genius. >> jay walkers of a genius, exactly. jay walker said he was worth more money in billions of dollars than general motor was at one point in time. he said i'm going to do a university. i said, "are you going to eni do dow?" he said, "no i'm gog bailed university." >> rose: and that's what he

did. >> the stock went sky high. everybody is waiting, a year, a year and a half you're locked up. a year-- and the moment you could sell it, it was worth pennies. so it wasn't worth anything. >> rose: you didn't sell right then? >> i sort of did. it was all over. the dot-com bubble-- >> it burst. >> it burst. and only an expert would know, but a full of these thousands of companies remained, and the ones that remained had some value, and priceline.com had a value. it gives a service that is really a valuable service. >> rose: and now, whether talking about dating or buying things, a lot of companies have done enormously well. but it's the power of the network to link people up who have similar aspirations. in this world where we live in, where we know so much about everybody, so many people are lonely, as you know. >> my driving force, one that i used to think about a great deal, is loneliness.

as an act oas you go from city to city or job to job, you don't really know anybody. if you're on location in a movie, for example, and you're doing it-- you'd be well up there in the hierarchy of the movie, and you don't know anybody, you sit alone in your room until you're called to the set. sometimes days may go by unl you're back on the set and you're alone. loneliness, loneliness of the life of having to go some place on location, go some place to find the job, go some place-- loneliness is the sickness of the soul. >> rose: is that in this "shatner's world"? >> a lot of it is. i talk about death and what happens. what do you think happens? and what people said-- i say we're dying, what they said and why didn't they tell us. >> rose: the book is about that "famous last words." amazingly i think this was said at steve jobss' memorial service

by his sister, i think, his last words were, "wow, wow, oh, wow." >> i do steve jobs, timothy leery, the last breath. exactly what you said is what his sister wrote, "oh, work oh, wow, oh, wow." i act out the context. >> rose: you do? how do do you that? >> well, what did he say? oh, wow. or did he go oh, wow! >> rose: to watch the moment of death is extraordinary. i did that with my mother. every person goes through this, you're pulled by two different emotions. up to the say hold on, hold on. and the other you want to say let go, let go. you do not know what to say because you don't know what's in your head. nor do you know if they can hear you. >> i faced a loved one who was dead and i looked and i said, what have you done?" they were smaller. they had clunk.

it was like death was so foreign. like where did the animation of this georgeous, brilliant, funny, sexy-- what happened to that? all of that? it was a shrunken mass that was wet and sodden and death is ugly in that way. i talk a little bit about that. >> rose: you've worked with remarkable people and just seeing "judgment at nuremburg" reminds me of how wonderful spencer tracy was. >> wasn't he wonderful? i had no idea. i was so callow. i thought that was a good scene. i thought i was terrible. all your impressions of the past filter through more mature eyes, it's different. >> rose: yeah. if you could go back and do one thing over again what would it be? >> charlie, i am so happily married, i'm in the middle of a great success on broadway, a one-man show -- >> and you're 80 years old.

>> and i'm 80 years old -- >> young. >> young. i'm young. and i've got my health. my children love me. my children are happy. i have animals. i have this life that is so vivid that to say i should have done something else. >> rose: no. >> is not only -- >> ungrateful. >> well, it's-- it's disgraceful. that it might have undone the skein that has been mitt already. >> rose: what is the love affair you have with horses? >> well, horses -- horses are, first of all, beautiful. there is an art in the beauty of the horse. then, when you're past the fear and the techniques of how to ride a horse, there's a communication that-- give me your hand. i can do this and talk to the h.

and the horse says, no, i want to do that. and you say no, no, no. let's do this. gentle and knowledgeable as that. >> rose: are horses different than dogs? >> yes, they're bigger. >> rose: well, of course. but i think-- the same thing with dogs. you have to be-- let them know that you're in control, yet let them know that there is a-- you're. >> there is the essence of control, herd and pack instinct. but that control from a human being can be just presence. it doesn't have to be, "i said sit down." >> rose: i went in the park and walked a wonderful dog, a black lab named barkley. >> you do? >> rose: yes, wonderful. and i sought other day someone working with his dog, and i-- i just stood there and watch because he was just very quiet and would move and the dog would

move. there was no command-- and you can know that with a horse, you can do the same thing. a horse can feel the gentleness of the mood and feel your own body. >> but that's exactly right. they don't speak verbally. but there's a vast language, dog, horsees, all animals have a vast nonverbal language. if you're tuned in they're talking away. >> rose: "shatner's world," we just live in it. on broadway at the music box. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org