with iconic author judy blume, with more than two dozen books, celebrating the 40th anniversary of her most well-known, "tales of a fourth grade nothing." we will talk about current debates on the issues she has raised throughout her career. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it is the cornerstone we all know. it is not just a street or a boulevard, but the place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioned by the --www.ncicap.org--

tavis: as a young mother, judy blume wrote books aimed at her own children, not knowing she would someday have books read by kids all over the world. this marks the 40th anniversary of one of her many classics, "tales of a fourth grade nothing." judy blume, a delight and honor to have you on this program. >> i am happy to be here. tavis: i wrote this down. i want to make sure i got this right. it was hard for me to believe. my producer found this for me. you have 14 of your books on the publisher's weekly's all-time best selling kids books. four of your books are on the american library association top

100 books. 14th greatest of all time. four on the pop band by the library association -- top banned by the library association. what the make of that? >> the sensors do not come after books until they know kids really like them. when kids like a book, there must be something wrong with the book. if you look at banned books, you see they are popular books with kids. tavis: what the make of the ones that have been censored? is there a thread that runs through them, from your perspective? >> i started writing in the 70's. books were not banned in the 70's. in the 80's, when they started to be challenged by parents

coming into the school library, it was always about puberty. puberty is a dirty word. as if if they do not read about it, it will never happen to them. there will never ask the questions. that is what it is about for me. it is always about puberty. it may be the language. it may be respect for authority, if a child ever questioned an adult. tavis: did you ever wrestle with our question yourself about the stuff that you wrote or however to all these years, and wrestle with the idea that it might be age inappropriate? writing, i think you cannot write thinking about "somebody might challenge this book." i tell young writers today you have to go into that room and

get rid of the censor on your shoulder, or you are never good to write anything that matters. so no. tavis: >> -- i am asking because as much wonderful stuff as you have written, girls love them. >> and boys. boys loved these books. tavis: correct. you are an author. clearly, you find things that are appropriate or inappropriate as a parent that you want your kids exposed are not exposed to. as a writer, where was that line for you? how did you find out whether or not what you were writing was appropriate for kids? >> i guess that i was writing a lot from the kid inside me. and what i wish i had had to read when i was 9, 10, or 11,

all the secrets that adults kept from me. nobody ever talked to me about things i was really thinking about, leading me to believe that i was maybe not ok because i was thinking about these things and questions. even though my father was a very open father and said, "you can always come to me with your questions," i did not i cannot say why i did not. you get to a certain point in a young life and you do not necessarily go to your parents if they have not been open and honest with you all along, from the first questions. where do babies come from? if nobody tells you, you get older and have other questions, and you are not going to go to your parents for the answers. tavis: given that kids can be exposed to so much more than

this on the internet, how much of this steve thing is pure silliness? >> i think it is pretty silly. but i have always thought it was pretty silly, because here is the deal with kids reading books. if they are reading something and they do not get it, they read right over it. like "the nea has a special place -- deenis has a special place." i heard from lots of girls that just read right over it. it did not stop them. if they did wonder where it was, they would go and ask somebody. the best thing would happen if somebody had very simply and to the point i told them. tavis: in your mind, what is the value of exposing, however on

this -- however gently one does -- what is the value of exposing kids to a special place, or any of the other issues you raised? >> i guess because, again, the child that i was, when i was 12 or 13, it would have meant a lot to me to know i was of the only one. i did have a special place. i do not know if you did. [laughter] tavis: i was person, you know. >> this is not what i think when i am writing. it is not about that. again, i think that kids will always come to a book, and if that are uncomfortable, there will put it down. i know that because i had a daughter who was severely our average reader. -- who was a severely average

reader. she wanted to read something and had just been published, and i gulped as a parent. i said, "please come to me to talk about it after." should put it back in 10 minutes. she said, "it is boring puzzle that is not what she meant. she meant, "i am not ready to read this." should put it back on the shelf. tavis:, about the father. i know he died when you were younger. >> i was 21. i adored my father. he was the fun parent, the nurturing parent i wanted to be like. he was a dentist. he had a workshop in the basement. he would lift me up and put me on the bench. he was my everything. he was fun and loving. and i knew that he loved me.

my mother was very private, very shy. she never told me anything about anything. my father tried. i guess it was -- what is a happy childhood? nobody has a happy childhood all the way through, right? i pretended a lot, because i knew that my mother, especially, just wanted me to be happy, and do not have any problems. so i kept the problems and the dark stuff inside. i never told her. tavis: i figured, because the kind of intimate to this earlier, there was a direct link between your childhood and the kind of stuff you have written over the years. >> i suspect that with everyone who writes. we right from the inside. we observe what is going on

around us. i think everybody who writes fiction, especially -- that is what i know about. that is what is inside of us. my father was funny. he had a great sense of humor. tavis: i have a story, since it has been 40 years, about the turtle. were you afraid to take this on? i will let you tell the story. >> there are two rejection letters i remember. it was not the whole book. the last chapter, i read about a child who was a toddler, and watching this turtle. i got letters. one said it is funny, but it could teacher and children to swallow turtles. the other said it was funny but

could never happen. i met a wonderful editor who said, "i love this." i was brand new as a writer. "how about writing a long book, and each chapter would be another story in the life of this family?" it just spilled out. it was wonderful. tavis: it has been a while now, so take me back to her you discover this. -- to how you discovered this. >> i think it was a happy accident. always have the stories inside my head. i remember being nine years old, bouncing the ball against the side of the house. i do not know what my mother thought i was doing for two hours practicing with a ball. sometimes, the ball would get

stuck in the gutter of stairs. i would have to ask my father to get it. there was a pink spalding ball. you probably never saw one. tavis: your memory is vivid. that does not surprise me, given your work. >> i would bounce and touched and the story would go around. kids were not encouraged to write in school the way they are today. today, kids grow up writing. you read. i love to read. the stories were there, and i never told anybody, because i thought that would be a weird kid. what am i going to say? i have people inside my head? i played a long time with paper dolls, with myself. these paper dolls had heavy duty, melodramatic stories. it was fun. i did not start riding -- i was

a creative kid in school. i was married young. by 25, i had two babies. i did not really write this story for the babies, to set this straight. they were little. in those days, you stay home with your babies, and i loved them. i love taking care of babies. i still like babies. but something was missing. all through my 20's, of is really sick. nobody ever knew what was wrong with me. tavis: you mean physically sick? >> then i started to write. all of these exotic illnesses. they magically disappeared. everything was coming out. tavis: the writing was therapeutic. >> it changed my life. it still does.

tavis: i take your correction in moment ago. that is, as you know, part of the folklore about you, that you started writing for your kids. but if that is not the case, it does beg the question as to why. i have people in my head. i have not written anything like you. we all hear voices in our heads for times -- from time to time. but does not make as best- selling writers around the world. i get that once you got it out, you were healed. but what pushed it out? what was behind that love? >> i needed the creative outlet. it could have been anything. the first thing i did, and made felt pictures, that inspectors out of felt, for children's bedrooms. suitcase and i got on a bus with them, and i went to bloomingdale's in new

york. i knew no one. someone was kind and said, "you need to see the children's accessories buyer." this person looked at them and said, "i will take those three. go home and make them in different colors." that was so exciting. that lasted a couple of years. my fingers started to peel from the glue, and i had different something else, another outlet. i was raising my kids with a lot of picture books. i started writing imitation dr. seuss books. from there, the stories would come out more. "are you there god, it's me margaret" was the third published book. i just said, "i am going to let it all out." i wasn't anxious child, and fearful.

but in my riding, no fear, knowing society. i mean, i still cannot believe that, when i think about it. i was able to be, and i hope still am, in my riding, not the same as in real life. tavis: when you started writing books that young, in your 20's, and you have young babies at the time, i understand the link to young people. you are still relatively young. as you got chronologically gifted, as my grandmother would say, how do you know that you are connected to young readers? >> i am not sure that is the reason that i wrote for children. i think that i had a connection to children, and i still have a connection to children.

and i really do not know how to explain that. the child inside me, the memory of being a child. tavis: being a child when we were children is i suspect quite different, in many ways. i have nieces and nephews, and their childhood is not like the world i grew up in. how you make that connection? >> the world is nothing like, but i think the inside, being a child is a universal experience, as well as being an adult. tavis: children do not have the time to be innocent the way we did for an appreciable period of time. do you think? >> i am not sure that we were ever innocent in that way. i know the things i was thinking about at 9, the secrets that were kept, the family secrets

that were kept. these are things that i wanted to know about. i was desperate to know about the adult world. i was desperate to know what all these secrets meant. i do not know that there is a big difference. yes, they are reading the books young. tavis: they see everything now. i am laughing inside, sinking -- thinking there are so few secrets for kids. everything seems to be exposed. >> but they do not know what it is. i am not sure i agree with that. they do not know. they do not understand what it is. i am talking about family secrets. they are still there. tavis: have you come into a sense of how you think parents navigate that journey of exposing stuff to kids when it

ought to be exposed to them? for example, i say this because i have written about it in one of my own books, years ago i learned that my father, who i thought was my father, was not my biological father. my family dealt with it. it is out in the open now. for years, i thought this person was my biological father. i found out years later he was not. my mother and family had a difficult time trying to figure out when i should know that family secret, as it were. they wanted to make sure i could handle it. they did not want to tell me too soon. every parent has secrets. but it is a matter of finding out when to share these secrets. you wanted to know the secrets and be part of the adult world. >> nobody told me.

tavis: maybe you were too young to be told of the point. how you know? that is my question. you cannot tell a kid everything at seven or eight. >> you tell them when they ask a question. you tell them in an age- appropriate way, which is as simply as to karen, and to the point. you know, i am not an expert on any of this. we are just talking as friends. tavis: absolutely. you are not an expert, but your books raise these questions. that is what i am talking about. when certain books are banned, and i am not suggesting they should be, somebody made a decision there is something in the book a child ought not be exposed to at this age. how do parents figure that out? you are a parent. how do you figure it out? can you answer questions every

time your kids ask? >> was i the perfect parent? no. if i was asked a question, i tried. we got books. in the family, we always had books. the neighborhood kids could come, and there were books. and we tried. we made an effort. but you keep it chatty. it is not like we are going to sit down and have "the talk." you are cooking. they ask you a question. you try to keep it nice and simple. tavis: does it feel like 40 years for you? >> it does not feel like 40 years to meet at all. i remember, long ago, being interviewed by someone who said, "do you think your books will stand the test of time? do you think that 20 years from

now people will be reading your books?": [laughter] i was like, "i don't know. i don't feel like that is what is important of all. i am happy they are reading them now." it would never have occurred to me. my thing was maybe someday i will be published. then you get bigger in your hopes and wishes. maybe people will actually read the books. maybe i will hear from the people who read the books. 40 years later -- tavis: let me ask you the question. who asked a question 20 years ago? let me answer in greater detail. author of 25 books. 82 million copies sold. 82 million copies.

in over 40 countries. now translated into over 31 languages. i think you withstood the test of time. i think you might have a future of this. you might hav a future of this. >> i am writing a new book. tavis: i was about to ask. what is next? i get the sense you will die with a pen in your hand. >> i have thought from time to time, "that is it. i am done. i am not doing this again and i waited a while. and i realized i liked being in the little room by myself with the characters in my head. my son and i, fudge -- my son was the inspiration for fudge. and he grew of and there was "tiger eyes," which he wrote

with me. tavis: how was that? >> cowriting is difficult, but being on the set every day, i loved it. tavis: some of these stories based on your son, and then he does a movie about your work. >> as mom and child. i am writing a book cent -- set in the 50's. somebody said, "you are writing a historical novel." no. it is very interesting. i have done a lot of research, which i have never done before. i loved it. i got to do a lot of reading. >> would you do is good stuff, and i opening for a lot of readers. do not let that stuff that pent up inside you. her name of course is judy

blume. 48 anniversary of -- 40th anniversary of "tales of a fourth grade nothing" things were being on this program. i loved it. >> i did too. tavis: as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit pbs.org. tavis: join me for a conversation on the critically- acclaimed book "american dervish." >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it is the cornerstone we all know. it is not just a street, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make everyday better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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