tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. i'm having a conversation with charles ferguson about the wall street crisis. he has a new book about the evils of our economic system called "reddick termination." also, christina ricci is here. we are glad that you can join us, charles ferguson and christina ricci coming up right now. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where wal-mart stands together with your community to make every day better.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: charles ferguson is an oscar winning film maker who has previously joined us on this program. he is out now with a timely new book about where we stand for years after the financial meltdown called a "creditor nation." he joins us tonight from -- "credit for -- "predator nation." he joins us tonight fm

berkeley. all these years after the meltdown, not a single person has gone to jail for their crimes that have bankrupt the nation. i recall debating bill o'reilly about this once on television and his argument was, what crimes were committed? what laws have been broken? he went on to advance his argument saying, you lay out in detail what crimes have been done. and this is to my mind the best treatment thus far to make a case for criminal prosecutions. i both know that presidents are loath to look backward -- you and i both know that presidents are loath to look backward. if gerald ford can part with richard nixon, -- can pardon richard nixon, and events since then, this is just not how the game is played.

it ain't nothing going to happen, charles. >> i would agree with you it is likely that nothing is going to happen right now. but i do think there is value to having the american people understand what actually went on here. over time, people will get angry enough that they will force their leaders to do something about it, at least to make sure this cannot happen again. unfortunately, right now they could. tavis: and if i say to you that the only way that and the american people will be complicit and demand that something be done and that this be taken seriously is to have another catastrophe, you would say what? >> sometimes that is the only thing that gets people up said enough. i hope that is not the case, but you might be right. but unfortunately, we might have

won soon courtesy of europe. and of course, the european crisis was partly, only partly, but part because -- caused by hours. the -- partly caused by our crisis. tavis: i'm glad you mentioned it. if the truth be told inside the beltway behind closed doors, there is concern about another recession on the heels of the one we had. the obama campaign, i cannot imagine what that would do to them. we have had three straight months of this. when economists see three straight months of no real job growth, they do get concerned about a recession and what that might do to the go-along attitude of the american people toward washington. >> it depends on how severe it is. it is purely an american matter and europe stays relatively stable, it will probably be an unpleasant but not catastrophic recession.

but right now, europe is looking really scary. if something really, really bad happens there, we could be facing something just as bad as september, 2008. that would certainly get people scared and upset. tavis: my first question was not to burst your bubble. i am delighted that you have written the book. i'm glad someone made the case and now my friend bill reilly and others will have something to read, if they choose to do so. having said that, why you think that no one has been prosecuted? >> unfortunately come the majority of the answer is- and unfortunately, the majority of the answer is that this industry is so wealthy and powerful that people are scared not only to regulate them, but most especially to prosecute them

when they create -- commit crimes. some of it is the fear of their power, and some of it is the desire to make money along with them. tavis: if your the government, how do you end up being scared of your citizenry? >> these are not your average citizens we are talking about. we are talking about companies, and in some cases, individuals, with billions of dollars at their disposal. and now there is no limitation of the money that can be spent on political campaigns. these guys are really powerful. tavis: doesn't this in some way threaten our very democracy? if we live in a country that express the believes in the rule of law, how does that apply to some if a brother gets caught on the street selling a crack bag or if you and i were caught embezzling, -- i mean, come on, if we are talking about the rule

of law, why does it apply to some and not others? >> that is the most disturbing aspect to this situation. there was a column a couple of days ago by john hall where he made the point, to his credit, where thousands of people across the u.s. have been prosecuted for trivial, low-level, a tiny financial crimes, you know, miss dating their income on a mortgage application -- miss stating their income on a mortgage application, things like that. tavis: you state very clearly in writing this book that this kind of predatory activity -- predatory banking activity is what is causing the country to descend, causing a disk-80 k and devolution. tell me more about this. -- causing decay and devolution. tell me more about this.

>> one thing that is increasingly a kind of elephant in the room in american society is a very high fraction of america's economic problems -- not all, by any means. america has problems for many reasons. but a fraction of the economic problems come not from our difficulties with education or globalization or competition with the chinese, but from the fact that a small number of wealthy and powerful people who run dangerous and/or inefficient companies are able through the use of money and the political process to prevent the government from ag -- from regulating them properly, from breaking them up when they are too powerful, from introducing competition when there is not enough. they are able to perpetuate their inefficiency or their criminal behavior, and inflate its consequences on the rest of us. the housing bubble is a

spectacular example of that. there are a number of other important ones, including the automobile industry, and broadbent policy. tavis: is it fair to say that the financial sector in this country on the whole is in fact, criminalize? >> in significant measure, unfortunately, it has been. there are still big portions of banking and the financial sector that are run relatively honestly. we still get our paychecks and can deposit them in our checking accounts. nobody confiscate our banking accounts, which happens sometimes in dictatorships. many things still work properly and well and honestly. but the significant portions of the financial system, including big portions of the investment banking do not feel they have any limitations or rules.

there has been a very great increase in the amount of criminal behavior in finance, and some of it is very disturbing. tavis: 0 do you deal with this long term if this particular industry is a protected -- how do you deal with this long term if this part of their industry is a protected industry? that is to say, this is a big trough of money in this country. how do you get traction on this? >> mostly it is going to have to come from the american people getting sufficiently upset about this. they forced their leaders to do things, to take action with regard to this. there will also be increasing pressure from other nations. and a number of other nations, especially european nations, have started taking much stronger measures with regard to financial regulation, the regulation of compensation, the kinds of things that have to be disclosed and that bankers are

prevented from doing. and eventually, international pressure will also begin to help. but the majority of it has to come from us. it will not come from political leaders, but the people. tavis: mike a third party be an option, to make the case? >> maybe. third parties are difficult to start in the u.s. a friend of mine is very well connected in american politics and said to me with a grin recently that the the one thing the two parties can certainly agree on is the and as our ability of a third one. but it might be a third-party or uncertainty within one of them. or it might be social or environmental or a women's movement. tavis: what are we lacking in legislation that might clear this up? there were great cheers in washington, and the pats on the back in congress during this

last round of legislation that they were going to get at corruption. what are they missing legislatively? >> some kind of thing like glass-steagall and a very strong version of the so-called blogger rule that prohibits -- volcker rule that prohibits banks from trading with consumer deposits. it is still in principal legal to prevent the security of a failure. the main thing is not a laws. the main thing is the enforcement of the laws. tavis: dog-franc is weak, and there is not a lot -- dodd-frank is weak and there is not a lot to enforce any way. how much of this has to do with whether or not the time has come for us to rethink capitalism as

we know it and as we practice it? have i gone too far? >> i used to be a businessman. i enjoyed what i did and i thought that it was socially useful. i do not have anything against business or private enterprise or capitalism exactly. but i think it is time to rethink the regulation of capitalism. what we have seen over the past decade is the regulated and unregulated finance and deregulated and not regulated business. it is dangerous and we have to change that. tavis: charles ferguson, author of"predator nation". good to have you back on this program. up next got actress christina ricci. stay with us.

tavis: please welcome christina ricci to this program. she is also a longtime activist on rape and abuse victims in this country. her latest project is the new film "belle aui." here is a scene from "belle ami." >> anyone might see. i cannot risk all. [unintelligible] he is a good man. a love nest is what we need. is there some place we can go to be a loan from time to time? tavis: i was asking you whether or not the accent came easy or

hard for you. >> i found it very intimidating. tavis: intimidating? >> yes, i found it nerve wracking. that is our part of any accent, getting past the fear. tavis: what is your process for learning the accent? >> hopefully, on any project they hire a great accent coach. and that person walks you through learning the accent, and usually, they are on set every day to listen to every take and coach you through it. that is always a great relief. tavis: i want to ask you about the film in just a second, but i cannot sit here any longer without looking at your shoes. can you get the shoes? cool. >> thank you. tavis: 9 iues. now that i got that out of the way i can move on. tell me about the film.

>> it takes place in victorian parents and -- paris and it is about georges dubois and it is about his ambition and greed and how he rises to a position of power by exploiting three women, and the affairs he has with them. tavis: your character specifically? >> my character is one of the first women -- the first when he gets involved with. they keep coming back to each other, even though she is discovering -- she sort of slowly starts to see what he is really like and how incapable he is of love.

but they connect to each other because -- we had always discussed the idea that if he were really capable of love, and if love were enough for this character, then he would probably end up with her. that would be the woman he loved. they come back together all the time. tavis: i am always curious about this for every actor, but particularly those who have such a broad palette over the course of their careers. there are certain factors that play the same character over and over again -- actors that play the same character over and over again. if your palate is pretty broad in your young life. you have been acting for a long time, but the range of characters is so diverse. of what draws you to a character like this? >> this character i thought was interesting because she is one of those rare people who probably has never known a day of pain in her life, emotional

pain. when you meet her in the movie she is very content and happy and upbeat and just wants to have fun. the first time she really experiences heartache for angst is in front of us, in the course of the story. it to me, that is interesting. usually, you are playing people with an emotional history, baggage, and that is what makes them who they are. and this is a character who is who they are because of the happiness and content of this they have known in their life. it is interesting because of how banal it is. tavis: how does one whose experience has been so foreign to that -- obviously, it has to do with your acting chops, but how does one whose life has been so far from that play a character who does not have any

emotional turmoil? >> everything about acting is based on imagination. tavis: that is very articulate. >> it is just like any other part. you just have to put yourself in that position. you know, imagine. and sometimes you can boil it down to a feeling of one moment and say, what if i have this feeling all the time? what if this is the main thing i felt life -- my whole life? and you just sort of try to color every scene, every experience with that kind of feeling. tavis: i offered a moment ago my assessment, which does not mean anything. i offered my assessment of the kinds of roles and characters i have seen you play. what is your assessment?

you have been at this since you were a child. at this point, you are 32. what is your assessment of the trajectory and kind of characters you have played so far? >> i think i have had a fairly meandering career. because i started so down, you know, i have always chosen my parts based on what is interesting to me and what i think would be challenging more fun, or someone i've always wanted to work with, or a place i have always wanted to work in, or a topic. for me, there are so many different reasons i pick something. most of it has to do with wanting so many different experiences. i think his career and lends itself to so many different experiences.

tavis: every child actor seems to me in this town, if you stay in the business long enoug not like the rest of us. you have talked about it and it is well-documented. the question i want to ask is how you have kept herself from being burned out by the business. maybe you have been and thought about quitting and wanted to get out. maybe you can tell me how you have stayed in the business of this time. >> i have never thought about not doing this. it has just always been something that i thought i would do forever. maybe when i was younger i kind of thought, oh, i will do something else when i am an adult. but i think when you view something -- i don't know. it has always been rt of my identity, i think. it never seemed like summitt and would not do. -- something i would not do. tavis: do you appreciate the

business now, or were you turned on by it more when you were a gambert actor? -- a young girl actor? >> i think i romanticized it more when i was younger. but i still would rather be on a film set than anywhere. you will not see me in a better mood than 4:00 a.m. on my way to work. people like, you are so obnoxious. will you stop talking? tavis: [laughter] >> one person said, i've never heard you talk so much except for before the sun comes up when we are on our way to work. i love it. tavis: that is cool. [laughter] are you still doing the same activist work? >> yes. tavis: how did that start? >> i actually became involved at

age 16. not in a hands-on way, but i had read an article about someone who helped found rain. i had just read an article about tory amos where she had founded rain and i think i had gone to an event where i could donate money to a jury of my choice and i chose brain. after that i always chose rain has my charity. and when i did "black snake moan," which is about a survivor of childhood rape and incest, i became directly involved with them and contacted them. tavis: i saw samuel in new york the of the day and i think as long as i lived of all of the trailers i have ever seen, i will never get that one out of

my head. >> 0 -- oh, really? tavis: it is so arresting. >> is that something with the chains? tavis: yes. >> i remember that. it was odd the way they marketed that film. tavis: todd is a good word. what is the take away for you -- odd is a good word. what is the take away for you about playing these roles? >> everybody has to find their cross, but for me, -- of their cause, but for me, i just feel like there is so much injustice around this topic. there are children that are completely unprotected and with no means of getting out of the situation. rain helps with that through their online hot lines and their

phone hot lines and everything. and also, we are just so far behind with criminal justice -- with the criminal justice that is provided for rape victims. we are trying very hard to catch up. tavis: thank you for your work that you are doing on that, and thank you for your work as a thespian. the new film is called "belle ami" with his chin to reach the and robert pattinson. that is our show -- with christina ricci and robert pattinson. that is our show for tonight. until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a consersation with pulitzer winner and friday night lights author buzz bissinger.

that is next time. we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where wal-mart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television]