tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with pulitzer prize-winning author was bissinger. he is out with his most personal book today called "father's day." is about the journey of his life with his disabled son and the impact this had on his own. we're glad to have you join us with a conversation with buzz bissinger coming up right now. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where wal-mart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your

pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: buzz bissinger is our pulitzer prize-winning and best winning author of "friday night lights." he is also a columnist with the daily beast. his latest text is called " father's day: a journey into the heart and mind of my extraordinary sun." welcome to the program. that is a heck of a title. my extraordinary son. is that a little fatherly pride? what is the reason for calling

your son extraordinary? >> we all have pride in our children. i also think my son is extraordinary because of his mental deficits and the way he has fought and struggled through sheer will to overcome them. he has made a life when i thought, quite frankly, that he would be very limited. tavis: in thinking that he was going to be limited, at what point did you discover your son was, in fact from extraordinary in his father's eyes? >> he was born in 19833 and a half months premature. he pape -- he weighed 1 pounds -- he was born in 1983, three premature.poundmonths he was one down 1 ounce. he was a twin. and i do believe he survived because of its own will and strength. that made him a remarkable, but as i saw him progress -- and a

lot of it took place on this road trip that we take where i really focus on just him for the first time and i saw how his mind works for the first time. it is extraordinary. tavis: you mentioned that he is a twin. how was his brother? >> his other brother, jerry, 1 pound 14 ounces, and he had no side effects. at that time, most males that size born in 1983 died. i have jerry going up the track and making progress, what all parents want. and there was zack, who was struggling, and was limited. and the gap just widened and widened and continues to widen. tavis: how does a father never did that? every father wants to have a boy. you were blessed enough to have

to of them, one normal, one challenge. how do you establish a relationship and navigate the journey with this particular son, zak? >> it was hard because communication was limited when he was born. i always loved him. it was never about love. but as a parent, you feel you are stuck with your child. that is one of the hard parts. because his mind was not all concrete we were stopped. we played the same games, really, for 20 years. and from 5 to 25 -- i meant it -- i said, look, lezak, i cannot do it anymore. -- zack, i cannot do it anymore. there was no progression. and it was enhanced by the other son. zack could not live alone. his comprehension was all about 8% to 10%. he will never get married.

that was hard for me. tavis: i want to talk about this in a second, but something else occurs to me first. when you say to lezak, "i cannot play these games anymore" it reminds me of these passages in the book where you are brutally honest. i expect that because of "friday night lights." but there might be someone who reads this book and says, man, he is pretty tough on this kid. >> some people have mentioned this. if i'm going to write a book like this, it is like my other journalism. i shined a light on texas football and i shined a light on myself. you might call it a memoir. it is a personal story. you have to be honest. i have read memoirs and i feel that a lot of them are jiggered

here and there and everything turns out happily in the end. i did not want to do it. people said, you are going deep here and he is a defenseless little boy. but i wanted to know how much he knew about himself and i did want to tell it. tavis: when you shine the light of odessa, texas, there were things that odessa had to face about itself that it might not like so much. -- buzz shines aatwhen does light on himself, what did you see that you were not happy with? >> i saw the price that i paid for ambition, the price that i paid for the need for success. i came from a family where power was assumed. i came into that from a very young age, five or six. i could not get off the track. i am still on the track now.

it was my addictio that is how i define myself. but like any addiction, you never get enough. you always want more. as a result, in my head a lot. i brewed a lot. i compare myself to others a lot. that will create distance from your children, and particularly when you have a job as severe mental disabilities. it is hard to get through to him. tavis: how did zach's challenges impact his brother? and how would you describe the difference in your relationships with either? >> there is no question that my relationship with jerry was either -- easier. i love both boys, but jerry and i could have conversations. i made dad and jerry played tennis, soccer. i love that. i would interrupt him during his second serve. finally he banned me from watching him. but i could communicate with

him. we have hard to arts. i have never had a real conversation with zach. he speaks in short snippets, or if he expands, it is always in the concrete. my conversation with gerry had a float with it. jerry was embarrassed by his brother growing up. which i understand. as he got more mature, he is more protective. but there are feelings of guilt. why was i the first one out by three minutes? why was there no residual effects for me? but i think he also feels that but for the grace of god, there go i.. i think he was terrified. there was something that caused him to work harder than ever to overcome possible learning deficits that he had. tavis: what did zach coming out three minutes later, what has that to argue over the years of

our time and space? it is just three minutes, but it changes everything. >> i almost put in the book, let's count. three minutes. three minutes to find my son's life, zach. it defined my life. it defied his mother's life. it defied jerry's life. those are a lot of lives to be defined in minutes. but it defined all of us forever. a was it to take this road trip from philadelphia to california? your idea or zack's idea?

tavis: tell us about this road trip. >> he would say things like, why can't we fly? tavis: tell me about the trip. a whole book is about this trip, but tell me what it meant for you and zach. >> we had to go to places where we have lived before. he has -- he is is a bond.

he has an ability to remember events. if you gave him a date within the span of his lifetime, he would know the day of the week. i do not know how he does it. his recall of events from 20, 24 years ago is shocking. he remembers everything. we went to milwaukee where i had worked. and then we did the bataan death march down to odessa. it was pretty much the worst trip. uh odessa, it was like 18 weeks getting down there. and then in mexico, phoenix, and then -- new mexico, phoenix, and then l.a. one of the things is that natural beauty does not register upon him. his mother's family took him to yellowstone and he was baffled. he said, there is nothing here. there is no place to eat. what is going on?

i knew that natural sites, for get it. tavis: what did lezak tell you was the take away from his trip -- what did zach tell you was the day away from his trip? >> i think he liked it. i asked him and he said -- i asked him how he felt and he said, pretty good. that is the way he talks. abstracting is difficult for him. before me, i will not say it changed my life. that is passed. that is what memoirs too often do. it strengthened our bond and when you are on the death bed and think about life, this will be at the top for me. this was after some real bombs. and i did learn of legitimately about our relationship. tavis: is that the longest kayaleh spent alone, two or

three weeks? >> -- the longest that you have spent alone, two or three weeks? >> yes. tavis: i will assume this had an impact on your first marriage. >> yes, we had two sons that were severely said. jerry bought out pretty quickly, but there were is difficulty with his breeding -- jerry got out pretty quickly, but there was difficulty with his breathing. buzz bissinger -- zach, it was up and down and up and down. the stress was enormous. i still worried about who was getting ahead of you at the of philadelphia inquirer at that time. i could not get it out of my head. and i do not say this problem. i think my wife got tired of my neediness. my wife said, we have two sons

that could die. i do not want to hear about your career. i do not want to hear about the plight of your story and whether it was on the front page of the metra section. i think it really began to bother her. tavis: why do you think this situation and condition could not bring you closer as opposed to separate you? there are parents watching right now that have had these challenges and it brought their relationship closer rather than make them more desperate. >> we all have dreams and aspirations for our kids. i know because of my own background. my dreams and aspirations were probably too high. i get frustrated easily. i can be volatile. instead of drawing us closer, which i think it has now, it did create a gap. i was very frustrated. i could not talk to him. i felt very, very stuck with him. at one point when he got into high school, i said to his mom, you have to take him.

it is a better situation for him, and frankly, i do not know what to do anymore. i cannot stand it that he is on the couch watching a tv show that he does not care about. i feel helpless. i feel frustrated. and i think a lot of the parents of these kids, you do feel frustration, pain, rage, and are reluctant to express it because of other parents say that means you do not really love your kid. that was never, ever the case. but i will not lie. if there was a gap. people will say, mike is going to harvard, penn state, gail -- my kid is going to harvard, penn state, yale. and i got to that. my son will not buy groceries for itself the rest of his life. -- for himself the rest of his life. tavis: you have said that you love zach as much as you love jerry.

but the upheaval and things that he brought to your first marriage, what is the value of zach as your son? tavis: -- >> the value of having zach is that you could not help but admire -- struggle is not a good word, but his ability to make connection with the world. his premise, the way he picks up on vernacular. no day of his life is easy. he is a creature of routine. i saw the way he used his memory to make connections. he loves people birthdays. that makes connections. and really, on his own he has created a full life for himself, one that i did not think he could. and that is really inspirational. tavis: it is pretty clear that you are a driven, competitive,

comparative spirit. >> yes. tavis: and you want to succeed at everything you do. how have you navigated your life past "friday night lights"? and i asked that for the obvious reason because once you write a book and it becomes a movie and then a miniseries, somewhere in the back of your head there must be the thought that this must -- this may be the magnum opus. but you are such a competitive guy. how do you get up every day working on this project or the other when you know it will be hard to repeat that. i'm not saying impossible, but if "friday night lights" is pretty big stuff. >> it has been pretty hard. it has been a killer. as the book got more and more successful and grew in sales, as you say, then the tv series and the movie. i wrote the book when i was 43 years old. i did not know anything about writing a book.

explodes, and i'm a guy who likes to move on. i said, this is it. i may write something better. i will never have the acclaim and the success that i got for that book. tavis: how does a guy like you deal with that? >> by and move forward and i have moved forward, but it haunts me. -- well, i move forward and i have moved forward, but it haunts me. people say, come on, you were successful. but sometimes it is a noose around your neck. was i just a one hit wonder? was it accidental? how did it happen? it is hard to get out of. i did not watch a lot of the tv show. it was great, but i was tired of it. 22 years later by so bad comments once a day. -- 22 years later, i still get comments once a day. i have done other things. that is what i want to scream.

tavis: are you happy with the fact that if that is the crescendo of your recent work, are you happy that it was " friday night lights"? i assume you are comfortable with that as the product. >> i thought the product was the combination of luck and having the innate skills of writing a book. honestly, i wish i had written it a little bit later in my life. i wish i had written books before and had that big one. i would have an old and handled it better. the haunt of at 34, and i'd done at 35? and i like the big -- and anti- gun at 35? and i like the high school quarterback that i am writing about? i am happy to expose the is racism that exists not just in odessa, but everywhere. i'm glad that i wrote about the black running back with

incision. he was treated like a football animal at the age of 18. he was not a pro player. it was hard. i knew these people. i spent a year with them. but at the end of the day, i acted as a journalist should. tavis: how do you think you are regarded in odessa these days? >> i have been out a fair amount of time -- back a fair amount of time. there are still people there who may need, but there are school officials who say, we did it with his look in the mirror. but you were right. we had to look in america and -- in the mirror and make some changes. they are not winning it nearly as much as they work. they are calmed down. i stayed with two of the kids.

the black running back and another kid. tavis: how is he doing? >> very well. when you are treated as a football animal and consider that you cannot be educated. when you're actually given money to play, you are not going to study. the proof of it was that everything was fine and he was getting a's and b's until he heard his knees and then he needed surgery and now he is flunking. he has had a hard time learning responsibility. he has had a hard time getting jobs. i think he is somewhat more subtle, but i always wait for the phone call where he says, hey, i need some money. i had a domestic spat and i'm in jail. it has been tough. tavis: no doubt he would have gone on to play college football, maybe at a major institution. but at the end of the day, you have some pretty strong thoughts about college football. >> i do, and i have strong

thought about a lot of things. i am not saying that facetiously. i think it should be banned, or at least spun off into a aaa team or its own entity with a license for the university and they get a set amount of money. no one, and i've read a lot about this, and i debate this -- no one has made a good academic argument for why college football exist on college campuses. we are the only society in the world looks to our colleges as primary sources of sports entertainment. universities, studies have been done more and more about the diversion. kids in the 1960's -- and these are economist studying this. they are too much about diversion, and football is the biggest diversion of all. the money spent, there have been studies that when the team is doing well, kids party more and

their rates go down. that is not what universities are for. tavis: why not spin it off? why not do what other coaches have said and just pay them? >> i would spin it off and i would give players the option to give -- take the scholarship money if you are going to use it to go to school, or take? but bush of money and get paid. -- or just take the scholarship money and get paid. i think a lot of kids have a dream that they want to play pro football. college football is their existence. i also think that because of the demands of the game, they do not have time to study. it is a year-round commitment. i think they are being terribly used. i do not think it is kick -- it is fair for nick saban to get close to $6 million. he does not play the game. they play the game. tavis: lete come back to the

book, "father's day." i do not want you necessarily put in the position of giving advice to parents of mentally challenged kids, but what is your advice to fathers who have sons who for whatever reason, they are struggling to connect in their relationship? >> my advise would be -- and i did not follow it all the time -- is to seek both acceptance and reality, and then i think things will flow to you that you always wanted. there are always different ways of measuring success. it took me a long time to realize it is not about going to an ivy league school. it is about taking what you have in new and making the best of it to build a world -- in the u.s. and making the best of to build a world in -- taking what you have inside you and making the best of it to build a world for yourself. tavis: the new book is called

"father's day." give our best to zach. good to have you on the program. that is our show for tonight. until that time you can watch on pbs. and as always, keep the faith. >> being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you did not let them down because you told them the truth. and that truth is that you did everything that you could. there was not one more thing that you could have done. can you live in that moment? as best you can with clear eyes and love in your heart. with joy in your heart. if you can do that gentleman, then you are perfect. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley

at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a consersation with legendary blues musician buddy guy. a release of his new memoir. that is next time. we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where wal-mart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television]