tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with "mad men" star, john slattery. the series wrapped up perhaps its most talked about season and is now looking at a possible fifth consecutive emmy for best drama. he has a role as roger sterling. we are glad you have joined us. a conversation with "mad men" star john slattery, coming up. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. tavis: john slattery is surely living an actor's dream, playing a colorful character on one of the most lauded shows on television, "mad men," and world that has earned him four consecutive emmy nods. the drama has just wrapped up its fifth season come in here is a scene from "mad men." >> where are you coming from? >> the club. >> we have got good news. i talked to ed. >> what did he say? >> that he would talk to you monday morning. >> monday?

are you kidding me? >> you said to get you a meeting. you have a meeting. >> this is a serious meeting, and you give me 48 hours to prepare? >> that is up to you. do not lose your nerves. i like the sky. i missed him. tavis: no three-piece, gray suit today. >> it would have been a long shot. i would have won the pants to the suit. tavis: i was talking the other day when i knew you were coming on the show. a great actor, been on the show, but for my money, you have the best in the show. whoever the costume designer is. >> janey. tavis: you are doing a great job, janey. >> i pulled a bunch of suits out, and i sent them up, and he

said no. 83-piece suit, a caller -- colar, but he had that specific point of a view -- a 3-piece suite, a collar. tavis: for a show like this, the costuming is incredibly important, i would think. >> yes. you have to find these vintage out its arming them, or replicate them. she does an amazing job, and she has assistance the search far and wide to find this stuff. the women's clothing is unbelievable. tavis: it is, and so are the women. i digress on that point. the clothing, and now the women in the clothing on "mad men."

is it fair to say that this is the darkest season ever? >> the times are getting darker, are they not? it is around that time, the late 1960's. yes, i guess there was a lot of imagery. people were predicting something was going to go. with amc or the studio, lionsgate, i think they wanted to cut some costs, and there was some news about them cutting costs, so there were predictions that someone would go, and then richard, the guy who went up the tower, that was featured, and then pour jared. he did not make it. yes, i guess it was a pretty dark season, to answer your question. tavis: i will not belabor this point, but since you were discussing it, i was talking about this when the season started, a whole debacle and debate about the network wanting

to cut some minutes out of the show. i want to ask you because you are dropped -- not just a star of the show, you direct some episodes. what is your take as a director, having to lose some time to make that happen? >> i remember watching sean penn on some shows, talking about commercials, that he did not want to do television because of the commercials, and i understand it now. directors even more so, because it is an interruption, and you need that time. to tell the story. you have 44 minutes, i think, with all of the commercials. i know they turn the lights on and pay the bills, but cutting the story like that, it hurts the story. it hurts the flow, so, yes, you need what little time you have. plus, the scripps are so dense, so just getting them shot in the time, the eight days you are

allotted to shoot them, that is difficult, and then cutting them to time is difficult. we always leave them five or six minutes over so that matt can go in and make his final cut, but this season, he and i had a conversation about how difficult it was to cut these things to time and not lose any scenes, so, yes, there was some speculation about trying to cut some expenses and do that, but he wanted to have it. there were going to be two versions. there was going to be that version that went on air and then a dvd version with the other time, but that issue went away. tavis: when he came on at the beginning of the season, there was this poster with these manikins on it, and i was asking matt to try to describe to me what it meant, and all he could give me was that by the end of the season, you will get

this. i think i will get it now. there are so many ways to read the in power and of women in this particular season. when it came into their own. this is a sexist era, a patriarchal era. we talk about one character levy because she was not respected at the firm, one character earnings -- coding 5%, there are some things that happened this season that do speak to changing attitudes about women. i do not know what to make of that. maybe matt did not intend that. >> well, we were on a panel last night, and he said that the poster, and i did not think about it, but he said the poster was draper trying to envision or construct a domestic life for himself, so the poster is a shop window with

mannequins. there it is. a guy sitting there in his pajamas, trying to envision a peaceful, domestic life for himself. tavis: what mattheus meant, i have got none of that. that is why you like art. art is so subjective. and you did not get it until last night when you were on the panel, i do not feel so stupid or so bad now. that is one of the things i love about art. it got everybody's attention. it worked. >> yes. i am always amazed. i do anything, and someone goes the imagery of this and this. they read it. that is what it is. you put something up there, some canvas, and people are going to filling in with their own misgivings or whatever, apprehension. >> -- tavis: inside. >> insides. phantasies. tavis: as we talk about the show

more broadly, to my mind, you are like the quintessential whe dude of that particular era, and that is not altogether a compliment, which means you are doing a good job acting that you make me feel that way. >> yes. tavis: you are sexist. >> racist. tavis: races. >> misogynist. a philandering drunk. yes, it is great. i had some misgivings along the way. i had to sing in black face, and i am thinking, "what the hell?" and he will create great story, maxwell, where he will tell the actors, whenever they need to prepare. there is one that even shaved his hair like that.

in one passing line, someone says, "are they going bald?" and they laughed. so he had to know that was going to happen. and he said that i was going to sing in blackface and then get in the car and drive home, and go, "what did he say?" that is the message and the messenger. that is the time period. a logical guy to say half of the stuff that he says is me, is roger, so, i mean, it is great to play. it is dramatic. there is a lot to play, and people get it. i was worried, i have been read a couple of times that you would get a lot of grief from people that would say, "that is the most reprehensible thing that i could say." but people get it.

they get it that it went on. they did research on the derby day, and they said, "do you think this was likely to happen," and they said, "it happens." -- "it happened." you cannot say that you could have a woman singing songs in her underwear, but you are going to draw the line about standing there and singing in blackface. tavis: but just because the audience gets it does not mean that it is easy are comfortable to play. have you had misgivings? >> yes. who wants to stand there and sing naked in front of a camera? well, maybe some people do. what this cast is among other things is willing. they are all ready.

and looking for it. the more conflict, the better. the more challenging, the more dramatic, the better the story. so it may not be easy, and there are emotional obligations to all of it, which is hard to do. there is. you have to stand there naked. you have to cry. you have to do all kinds of things that you would not do in your life and have never done in your life, and you have to conjure up enough to be believable as an actor. that is why we all got into it. tavis: one of the things i found fascinating about this particular episode where lsd is introduced, obviously, is when we tend to think of drugs of that era, we think of hippies and woodstock, etc., etc., and here, you have a professional guy, an executive at advertising agency who is doing lsd. >> yes.

again, surprising, but it is also well constructed. i know he does not know any more than one season at a time, but i am always amazed at how it is so well shored up by something that is informed by something earlier in the season or seasons prior, and he is at a time in his life where he is unsatisfied, in an unhappy marriage, and there is probably some denial. they were at a dinner party, and his wife says, "do you not remember, dummied?" so the had this experience. it is surprising, but it makes sense. it makes sense for that character in this situation, these people, at this stage in his life to have this experience and propel them forward. tavis: to your point about conceding at least that you only

know one season at a time, and yet i am told that matthew keeps a lot of stuff from you guys until the last minute -- >> troops. tavis: how would you know when the end has come for the show when we have run the course of stretching out the story line? >> he says he has an image, a final image. i do not know what that image is. they talk a lot. in the beginning of the season, matt lays out the long season. i have heard him say that he does not know how he is going to get there. i think every season, he is more than nervous, i know, about what the story is going to be, and then they arc out the season, and we were told we were going to be doing two more seasons.

and as was said by elaine -- lane price, it happens. there was some speculation last season that roger might jump out the window. i hope it does not happen to me, but nothing on that show happens without reason. tavis: speaking about having a couple of heart attacks, i read, i did not know this until i came across it in my research, but your hair, that beautiful colored mane that you have, your hair is not colored this way for the character. your hair turned the color when you are younger, and -- when you were younger, and you are still a young guy. i am wondering whether or not it trouble you when it happened, because this is so much of part of your character, if you stand out in the crowd, and people know who you are.

>> yes. it happened early, when i was in college, slowly turning gray. it was confusing in the beginning for people who want to put you in a box. you are too old. "how old are you? " they could not figure it out. yes, i did not get into this to stand out in the crowd for me. i wanted to play other people, so this just happen to be where i was when i got this job, and it goes on like this, and it was a little confusing at first, and i would die in a lot, and yes, you looked younger with dark hair than with white hair. i will die in again for sure. it is not my favorite thing to sit in a beauty parlor having my hair dyed, but, it kind of is

what it is at this point. tavis: to your point now, because there is so much more that you want to do, and if you are required to dye your hair after "mad men you would, but if this were to be, to say, your magnum opus, this is it. this is the character and the role that you will be remembered for for the rest of your career. if this is it, would that be ok? >> it would. tavis: i just saw that larry hagman is back. j.r. ewing. >> it will probably be front and center in my obit. i am fine with it. how lucky am i to have that? a lot of people do not have that, just to be known for anything. the fact that anybody is paying attention is fair enough.

i am so proud. every inch of it. being given this part, getting all this attention, but the right kind of attention for the endeavor, and then to be given an opportunity to direct it, yes. this is good. i am having a good run. tavis: so does that mean you want to do more of the directing thing? >> yes, it does. tavis: not above acting though. >> know. i do not want to give anything up. tavis: how weird is acting? >> in the beginning, the first one was a blur. but it is a time issue. you do not have much time to shoot this thing anyway. as i said, it is very dense, and u want to give yourself

options, and you want to do it completely, and if you and i are doing a scene, i have to go out in the hallway and look at the monitor and then come in and shoot the scene, versus if i am there, we just do another one. it takes longer. there are other considerations, too. on the other hand, you are making choices, so it is not something i dislike at all. it is a little bit of a stretch. tavis: fate plays such an important role in life, and certainly in this industry, as you well know. if i read this correctly, you went in to read for the draper character, and you were told that they had already filled that with some guy. in retrospect, what did you make of that happenstance, that occurrence? >> i was told -- i was sent the script, and i was told the role

of draper, and i actually called them back and said, and " really?" i did the part of a 65-year-old grandfather, that is what i get. "really? draper? this is an unbelievable part." i went in to read, and they were very serious, and date were there, matt and others, but and you could tell, let's not screw around here. let's get going. and then i did my thing, and they gave me some notes, and i did it again. and then i was wondering why they kept having me do it. and then they said, "ok, here is the deal. we have that guy already." but i got it. there were only a couple of scenes in the pilot, so they assumed i would not come in and read for it, and they wanted me

to. they certainly do have that guy. it was humbling actually. when i saw him. i am so not that guy, and i will never be him. and then matt said, "listen, i promise you," and i was a huge fan of "the sopranos," and he said, "this will be great," and it was. tavis: so we know what matt was doing prior to "mad men," but what were you doing? what was life like for you as an actor? where were you before? >> i was doing some theater. i was doing some television with varying degrees of success. i did some movies. that no one ever saw or will see. i still do a t of those.

like a million other actors out there, i was kicking around, trying to make a living, and i was doing fine. tavis: right. >> yes, and then this thing came along. it is so unlikely. these things, they just do not happen. people by now know about pilots than a series getting picked up but cancelled and all of that stuff. this network should have never done any television, original programming. they make a pilot, one pilot, and then five years later, here we are, and it has won every award it could when multiply -- multiple times, and they only had one. it is not like they threw a bunch of to see which ones stuck. it is crazy. tavis: which means it was meant to be. >> i guess so. tavis: which brings me to the question. what is it then at that you think makes the show work so

well with the audience? you laid the backstory nicely, that things just sort of lined up. >> i have to say it is the material, the actual writing. i said that recently, and matt said -- i am not trying to be false modest. we do a good job. it was cast well. it is shot well. all of the designers and producers do a hell of a job, but it is the right thing. i had an acting class once, and the guy said, and he was a great teacher, and they would do this basic repetition think, and someone said, "why do you not teach the advanced class." and he said, "you think you are pretty advance, and then you do something else, and you are not very advanced." without these scripts, we would not be very advanced. it is the storytelling. these people are complicated.

it is never predictable. people predict all kinds of stuff, and then it happens. it is shocking. those writers are great storytellers, and that is it. tavis: is working, and i am glad. i am watching. >> thanks. tavis: glad we could meet. john slattery from "mad men." that is our show tonight. until next time, keep the faith. >> you will have more success if you are quiet. >> do not be like that. >> i could not care less. >> i know why you are mad. but jane is not going to take everything. >> it never occurred to me. have i asked. >> no, and you should not have to, and you don't, and he keeps sending you back. >> because it is a short-term solution.

>> i told you, i will cover kevin. >> no, it is better this way, and if you are not careful, you will not even be a family friend. >> it is not about honor. it is a fact that we created a human life. we made a baby. >> yes. and now, it is some other lucky girls turn -- girl's turn. scarlet? >> hello. today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with -- a legendary sportswriter, frank deford, on his new memoir, "over time." that is next time. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. know. it's not just a street or

boulevard, but a place where your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs. >> be more. >> be more. pbs. pbs.