tavis: good evening. smiley. tonight aonversation with capt. chesley sullenberger. he became a hero when he successfully landed about flight on the hudson river. he is a safety expert and the author of a new book on the leadership. we are glad you joined us. >> every community has a martin it's the cornerstone we all know. boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. >> on january 15, 2009, the you remember where you were cat? >> i do we do where you were at? >> i do. >> he became an instant american hero after what is known as the miracle on the hudson. he is the author of the new t ext "making a difference." i finally get a chance to shake your hand. what an honor it is to meet you.

does it feel weird that everyone knows who you are before you know who they are? >> it does. who it is amazing what you get used to. the intensity of public attention is so amazing, i cannot imagine if it was something bad. tavis: how hav you gone about who -- when you knew you were going to be the caretaker >> unlike most news stories this one did not fade away. i felt a really intense obligation to further aviation

safety and other things. we felt that mission continues. when we became a member of the world stage and have the ability to travel and meet world leaders and hear their inspiring stories, i had to share them. tavis: did you have any idea of the story would continue to give the kind of access you had? >> i remember calling my wife and saying i think our lives have changed forever, but i have no idea how much or for how long you're a goo.

all of our lives changed completely. tavis: there are so many people who find themselves in the national spotlight on the world stage who are not ready for that and wish they could exit. ever had thoughts about a commission? i did was hard. this was a huge stretch, and we had to find a way of living an entirely new life as a public figure. if required us to develop new skills to be articulate and speak publicly. it was a stretch for all of us, but i never wished that hard would change. i had an obligation to use it for good. my daughters who just turned 16

and 14, if you would have asked them if they would have wanted to continue, they would have wished it away if they could. it was too much of a change initially, but now they realize it is a wonderful opportunity. tavis: when you started talking to leaders, what were the parallels between your leadership as the captain of an airliner and their leadership as captains of their respective ships and? >> i chose a diverse group of people and people i admired and respected, and i did find some common themes. i also wanted to be challenged. i wanted to find people who did not agree with what i thought, and i wanted to find surprises, but i think at its core all these people view this world as

an opportunity for good, and they are willing to act on it, and they have real core values and choose to live under them. they check their egos at the door and serve a cause greater than their personal needs. goodbye to every day when we wake up and we have an opportunity to do some good, but there is so much bad you have to deal with. there are so many people who are losing hope or fear faulkner of an uncertain future. what do you say about how to take a fearful situation and do some coulgood. >> it is what i call realistic optimism, having acquired the actual skills, we can ultimately achieve our goals.

ultimately we will do what we need to do, while at the same time holding on to a different idea and being able to acknowledge a different reality and being able to articulate a different possible future i think is key. >> we all want to be led. >> you deserve to be led. when people are in big organizations, they often get tired of all with the minutia of managing -- tied up in the minutia of managing things. they forget that people deserve to be led. people are our best resources,

and people who do not choose to live that way aren't not counting for the cost of not having a cooperative work force, not having people that are productive and innovating because of it, but it is our real costs. >> i take your point, but we all want to be led. i raise that because as a leader so much of your success has to do with how we handle crises. it is not about what you promise. it is about how you manage a crisis on your watch when you are the leader of this nation. it does not matter how many successful flights you have. you do not get brownie points

for those triggered the real test of your leadership comes in those moments. talk about how leadership is to find at a time of crisis. >> is a matter of living your life with certain values. it is a matter of mastering your crt and then mastering yourself, so it is doing the right thing consistently on every flight over many years the provides a firm foundation toh which we can improvise solve the problem we have not trained for, and out of 24,000 hours in the air i never knew if i might face an ultimate challenge, and i never knew on which three and a half minutes

my entire career would be judged, and i think everyone viewed it that way. not each of them was challenged with a specific cathartic event, but many of them one take away who is everyone can learn to be a leader. these things are learned. tavis: how do we learn to become better leaders? >> we have to start with a firm foundation. we have to start with core values we can live with, and we find those we respect and model are life on them. good >> how much of your preparation -- you said a while ago on the one hand i get how all the preparation in the air, doing things the right way and

by the book puts you in a better position to improvise. the tricky part is nothing you have ever experienced was anything like that. >> we had trained for parts of it, and we made it all trows saved because we created this robust save the system in which and people with a shared sense of the outcome. did we have shared responsibility each member of the crew and years to. we did not have to reinvent the wheel, only a part of it. tavis: nothing was le what you experienced on the hudson that day, but what was the most challenging, most difficult situation you find yourself in as a pilot prior to that moment?

a burden hitting the windshield? -- of bergen hitting the windshield? what was your biggest challenge prior to that? >> i have to go back to when i was a flyer in the u.s. air force to find something remotely close to this, and it pales in comparison, so i had never before been significantly challenge. i had never experienced anything i did not know the answer to. this was unanticipated. we had never trained for it, and it required in 208 seconds to solve a problem we had never seen before. it was difficult. it required every ounce of my being to suppress my natural response to this were my blood pressure shot up, my perception narrowed and to come up with a way to solve this problem.

>> you are not the first leader or the last who will encounter something he has never dealt with before, so what do leaders due to encounter something they have never seen? >> they do a couple things. survey for things that are similar looking for things that are unique. remaining a general is but a specialist in areas that are important. tavis: what does the leader do when he is tested by a problem and they survive it, but they did not handle it perfectly. good as far as we know you did everything right to save all those wirelives. you manage it perfectly. moseley bears do not manage major crises.

did you look back and say, i could have done this. i should have done this. what does that do for your leadership when you do not have a firit perfect? i did was by no means perfect but the fact we got so much right is a real testament to our training, but for thousands of hours i tried to make each flight better than the previous one. i paid attention to managing the flight path of the airplane, knowing whether i was faster or slower than where i wanted to be and paying attention to be a continuous lifelong learner is what helped me that day. what say you about -- i

want to use a biblical phrase -- speaks about being prepared for a time such as this. how much of leadership has to do with being the right person in the right place at the right time? how many pilots do you have in the pilots' union democrats 5000 pilots. good -- how many pilots to have been the pilots union? 5000 pilots. tavis: how much us to do with when you have been given? >> each of us has an obligation to fulfil our professional responsibilities, and doing that on a daily basis makes it second nature. good it makes it something you know you would do. i never knew i would be tested. that late in my career i assumed i would not be tested.

it could have been any of us. >> how do leaders keep their emotions in factact. >> a great effort. it required a great effort to compartmentalize and focus on the task at hand, but it is a professional calm we as pilots learn to sum up inside of ourselves and use. tavis: what if somebody would say to you about not being distracted by selfishness or saving one's own behind. you might have been afraid for

and that is true for so many leaders. they make choices trying to save their own hired or their own career. how does that factor into being a good leader and making decisions that are not just about saving yourself? >> that is why i chose these people. i knew they had moral courage. i knew they had integrity. they had demonstrated its, and they were willing to serve as a cause greater than themselves. they were willing to do something for a cause greater than themselves. good that gives you a clearer world view about where to start, what is right, what is wrong, what is in accordance and what is not. tavis: if you were to ask if the

american people whether that was common, part of what concerns us about leaders is we do not essentially get as they are in it for themselves. good >> sometimes they are not. one important thing i talk about in the book is executive compensation. i do not shy away from addressing important issues people care about, and when a few leaders are able to isolate themselves from everybody else, if they are able to preserve their wealth, but preserve their own self-worth to the exclusion of everybody else, we are not in this together, and it is obvious to everyone. tavis: what say you and these other leaders about the growing

gap betweenleaders and people? there seems to be a growing gap between those who make decisions and those impacted by decisions. >> we need to look at not just what people have in terms of money but the opportunities. we should make sure moton region more americans have the opportunity to realize the american dream. good one of the conversations i had we talked about these issues and how we seem to have lost this sense of civic virtue, and there comes a cost to dive. and when we do not have a shared experience, we lose some of the

glue that holds our society together. good >> what you learned from a great baseball manager about leadership and? >> ala. i was at his home the day after, and he called me up because the staff at his animal rescue foundation told him not only had i landed the airplane but my family have been fostering kittens and puppies for his animal rescue foundation, so he liked that and talk about how he is able to personalize his approach to his players and create an environment of respect, so he is able to make each member of the team the go-

to guy. tavis: there are lessons for leaders. what are the lessons for every day people? >> there are so many leadership and folks out there by ceos. this is written for everyone. these are things we can all learn to do better. it can help you be more affect about school, at home, and at work. it starts with the right values and putting others and their needs ahead of just your own values. >> what did you learn from michelle read about being a

leader when the message you have to deliver is unpopular? she expressed her point of view, but it was very unpopular. >> she has move it along. one thing that impressed me is she talked about her first job as a teacher, and she and admits she was not a very effective teacher, but when she saw how the opportunities these children have was so dependent on where they were born, it offended her sense of right and wrong. it seemed on american -- un- american to her, and it is clear to me she is doing its for the right reasons. she knows it is for the kids,

and it is clear she is doing it for the right reasons. she is doing it for the kids and not for the adults. what we do in education should benefit the kids. tavis: your title got my attention. good coverage can be defined in a number of ways. it takes -- courage can be defined in a number of ways. it often trips people up. is it your sense our leaders today really possess envision? >> i think many times they are not able to. i think the incentives are aligned to focus on the near term, in the financial world, on wall street, washington, and is much more difficult to take a longer view and look at things that will benefit us not just in

the next election but generations from now, and we are facing complex problems that it will require generations to so we need to realign those incentives. that is one thing about the way they should be aligned to not just look at the short term, and that would go a long way to solving many problems. that and changing the way alexian's our finance. good >> -- the way elections are finance. tavis: how many times are you asked to run for office? >> i was us this morning, more than once common -- i was asked this morning, more than once, and i believe i can be more effective outside of government

land in. i think i can have a greater voice. tavis: i would not argue that all. there is no way to be free when you are bound by money. i respect that answer. the book is called "making a difference." a good read. i recommend it. in honor to meet you once again. thank you for coming. that is it for now. until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with the nobel prize winning economist on wire problems continue to haunt the west -- on y problems continue to haunt the west.

that is next time. we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more