07.23.12 07.23.12 >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> we are coming together tonight as a family would to provide love and support to those who lost loved ones come and those whose lives have been scarred forever by this tragedy. >> thousands gather in aurora, cal lago following in that left 15 people dead.

>> i hope that over the next several days, weeks, and months, we all reflect on how we can do something about some of the senseless violence mars this country and also reflect on the wonderful people who make this the greatest country on earth. >> the alleged shooter ordered more than 6000 rounds of bullets on mine. he will speak to an eyewitness to the shooting, host a round table with congresswoman carolyn mccarthy. she pushed for gun-control after her husband was killed and son injured in the rhode island massacre that killed six. colin goddard, who was shot during the virginia tech massacre that killed 32. but welch, bullets on mine. whose 23-year old daughter julie was killed in the bombing of the oklahoma city federal building which killed

168. all that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. thousands gathered in aurora, colorado sunday for a public vigil for the shooting victims at a local movie theater. the toll stands at 12 dead, 58 wounded, nine of them critically. after meeting with grieving families, president obama said he brought a message of support on behalf of the country. >> i confessed to them that words are always inadequate in these situations, but now my main task was to serve as a representative of the entire country and let them know that we are thinking about them at this moment, and will continue to think about them each and every day.

and the awareness that, not only all of america, but much of the world, is thinking about them might be some source of comfort. >> after two days, officials were able to enter the home of the suspect. holmes online purchases included a few thousand rounds of handgun ammunition, 3000 rounds for an assault rifle, and shells for a 12-gauge shotgun. when police cut into his apartment, they found 30 hand grenades and several containers filled with gunpowder and gasoline. according to witnesses, a higher death toll may have been avoided because holmes weapon jammed as

he fired on the crowd. the obama administration has already ruled out changing the nation's gun laws. jay carney said that the president's view is we can take steps to make sure guns are out of the hands of people who should not have them under existing law. holmes is currently being held in solitary confinement. we will host a round table on the shootings and past mass killings after the headlines. police in the california city of anaheim are facing allegations of murder and brutality after shooting two latino men over the weekend and firing rubber bullets at crowds. one anaheim officers shot and killed men will be as after he reportedly ran away from a group of officers who confronted him in an alleyway. diaz was unarmed. one witness reported that he had his back to the officers when he was shot in the buttocks.

police then allegedly shot another bullet through his head. two of his sister's demand justice for their slain brother. >> once they shot him in the leg, he went down and then they shot him in the head. my brother did not have a weapon on him at all. >> these cops do not know what they have done to our family, especially my mom. we are going to bring this to justice. >> hours after his death, a chaotic scene broke out when police fired rubber bullets and tear grass -- teargas at a number of people protesting the shooting. video was taken of a police dog rushing a man tried to protect his infant child. more than 24 hours after diaz's death, police shot and killed another individual in anaheim

who they say was suspected of car robbery. dozens of people have been killed in a spate of attacks across iraq released today. at least 93 people are dead along with 100 foodie -- 140 wounded from 19 different bombings. it was the deadliest day of violence in iraq this year. the syrian government is claiming to every taken a district in the capital of damascus after a week of clashes with rebels. witnesses reported seeing the execution of several people as syrian officials conducted house-to-house inspections. at a meeting, the arab league foreign ministers approved a call to urge the resignation of syrian president bashar al- assad and granting him safe passage out of syria. in afghanistan, three military

contractors were killed when a man dressed in an afghan military go for an open fire. it was the latest in a series of deadly shootings by apparent members of the afghan forces against foreigners with the u.s.-led nato occupation. thousands gathered at memorials in norway on sunday to mark the first anniversary of the bombing and shooting rampage that left 77 people dead. the attackers set off bombs at government buildings in oslo, killing eight people, before shooting dead 69 young people at a labor party youth camp. brevik said that he thought that their labor policies were to open to muslims. >> to come together to market it

has been one year that has gone by, it is a special experience, but an important experience. i think we did the best. we were together, which was important. we had the possibility to show your emotions, feelings about what happened, and at the same time, we had the message that we have to continue living our lives. >> arguments in the trial came to a close last month and a verdict is expected in late august. a major international conference on global aids policy opened in washington, d.c. sunday, the first time the event has been held in the u.s. soil. hundreds of people marked the first day of conferences with rallies on the national mall calling for cheaper anti-viral drugs and more aid. and barbara lee of california

called for a new push to help aids patients worldwide. >> we must redouble our efforts and commitments to the global fund, to our domestic national hiv aids strategy and plan, which i believe president obama has put forward, the right thing to do, but it has been quiet in this country. we need to make noise. we need to put eradicating the hiv aids on the front burner of our political agenda. >> the conference has drawn controversy from activists because of working limitations. at a satellite session with sex workers from other countries, miriam edwards called for broader acceptance of the sex trade. >> we are a class of the general

population. we need people to accept sex workers as part of the general population and stop segregating them. we are human beings and they must be excepted. if not, we will never get to 0 on hiv. >> sex workers and allies have protested their exclusion by holding a separate conference in india. at the conference's opening on saturday, the event was held to include the voices of marginalized sex workers. >> we have organized this freedom festival because of the u.s. travel restrictions, preventing sex workers from all the world to go to the washington conference to participate, as we have done since 1988. we are here to talk about our rights as sex workers. they are fundamental for us.

>> in mexico, thousands marched against the elected president pena nieto. his critics have accused him of buying votes and rigging coverage over his opponent will press obrador. public protest is the only way to counter the mexican media bias towards nieto. >> this is our only way to combat the manipulation of the media outlets. they own the television screen. they only talk about what is convenient. that is why we are here, those of us will -- not willing to conform. this is the only way we can make them feel of our discontent and let them know we do not agree with what is happening. >> penn state has removed the

now infamous bronze statue of the late head coach joe paterno following a scathing report that found him and other school officials covered up child molestation. a recent investigation found he and three others hit sexual molestation allegations against assistant coach jerry sandusky 14 years before they finally came to light. workersmolestation. remove the bronze statue outside of the school's football stadium. in a statement, penn state said, the statute remains a worker would to individuals across the nation and beyond. alexander cockburn, a longtime journalist, columnist, and publisher of counterpunch, has died at the age of 71. he was a prolific writer who statue outside ofauthored columns oveas

for "the village voice

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. survivors of the aura, colorado massacre joined thousands of supporters at a vigil when a gunman fired into a midnight premiere of "the dark night rises." makeshift memorial is have cropped up across aurora, as members of the city grief. 25 remain in hospitallives, mil. it would haves with 9 in critical condition. >> i had a chance to visit with each family. most of the conversation was filled with memory. it was an opportunity to describe how wonderful their brother or son or daughter was and alive that they had touched, the dreams they held for the future.

i confessed to them that words are always inadequate in these kinds of situations but that my main task was to serve as a representative of the entire country and let them know we are thinking about them at this moment, and will continue to think about them each and every day, and the awareness that not only of america, but much of the world, is thinking about them, might serve as some comfort. i also tried to assure them, although the perpetrator of this act has received a lot of attention over the last couple of days, that attention will fade away. in the end, after he has felt the full force of our justice system, what will be remembered are the good people who were

impacted by this tragedy. >> the president, along with his republican challenger mitt romney, suspended campaign events over the weekend. >> we will all come together. we will survive this. but there is no way around it, it is tough. you cannot have that many people die and that many more people be injured in an absolutely senseless situation and not see it as anything but tough. >> as the families of victims to go with the loss, new details emerge about the shooting suspect james holmes. reportedly a promising neuroscience graduate student at the university of colorado denver. according to a statement from the school, he enrolled in 2011 and was in the process of withdrawing. the motive for the shooting

spree is unknown. police believe he meticulous to planned his rampage, spending about $15,000 on weapons and ammunition. when police disabled his booby trapped apartment, they penned several hand grenades and gunpowder and gasoline. they also confiscated a computer and other paraphernalia related to batman. he began buying weapons in his home. among the weapons seized in his apartment were two 40-caliber pistols, a glock g22 and a glock g23, smith & wesson m&p .223 caliber semiautomatic rifle and a remington 870 express tactical 12-gauge shotgun. he also bought 6000 rounds of ammunition online as well as a high-capacity drum magazine capable of holding hundreds of rounds. holmes is currently being held in solitary confinement in jail. he could possibly face the death penalty.

for more, we are joined by an eyewitness to the shooting, omar esparza. he just left colorado and is now home in texas. where were you in the theater? >> i was approximately in the third row -- in the third row, around 17 seats down from the middle. >> can you tell us what happened in theater 9? >> it was approximately 15 minutes into the movie when we heard the door being kicked open. apparently, it had been propped open. somebody walked in and threw a smoke grenade into the crowd. we thought it was a practical joke. i personally thought it was a stink bomb or something juvenile. when the canister exploded, everybody started screaming, and that is when the gunmen opened fire on the crowd and

pandemonium broke out. >> how close were you to him? >> approximately 10 feet from him. >> what was he wearing, could you see him? >> yes, very clearly. and believe he was wearing camouflage pants. he had a lot of body armor on. he had a riot helmets, a gas mask, goggles, and all this weapons. he was heavily armed and protected. >> when did you realize he was not just in a batman costume like a lot of the people there for the premiere of the film? >> it was a few seconds after the canister exploded. he shot a few bullets into the ceiling. a few people started screaming, but when he started opening fire on the audience, pretty freely,

shooting in every direction, that is when everyone started screaming, panicking. a lot of people had been hit with those initial few rounds, and that is when everyone hit the floor and started to exit. >> you were with a group of friends. how did you get out? how many of for you there? >> there were six of us there for a birthday celebration. when he came in and started shooting at the audience, we hit the floor and tried to crawl across to the other side. unfortunately, there were some people who were petrified or injured who were blocking the passage to the other exit. from my vantage point, at that point, it sounded like the bullets had stopped, like he was switching guns, or reloading his

rifle. when we heard the silence, we realize that was ever on the opportunity of getting out or dying. at that split-second, we had to react and exit as quickly as possible. we barely made it. the proximate one second after we exited, we heard him starting to shoot again. >> police where there very quickly. did you see them outside? >> i did not see them outside immediately. it was about five minutes after we had exited the building that we started hearing sirens. at first it was two or three sirens, but there was a police station nearby, so within about five, six minutes, you could hear about 10, 15 sirens and helicopters. >> you regrouped with your

friends outside, saw people being taken out, bloodied people. your final thoughts as you return to houston? how are you coping with this? >> i do not think there is much coping except trying to parcel out exactly what happened, what are the many factors going into this, corruption of the gun industry, pharmaceutical industry, and the multiplicity of things that went into this event. trying to figure out and research and trying to make sense as much as possible of everything that happened in this incident. that is probably the best way i have been coping with the situation. >> thank you for sharing with us. omar esparza, eyewitness to the

colorado shooting massacre. he and his friends escaped minutes after the shooter open the fire. when we come back, another survivor of sorts. she lost her husband, her son was critically wounded in the long island rail road massacre of 1993. she then ran for congress on a gun control ticket, and she won. she beat the congress member who was not for gun-control. we will be speaking with long island congress member carolyn mccarthy.

>> "lives in the balance" sung by richie havens. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we continue our conversation of the colorado massacre. the rampage is leading to fresh

calls for a national debate on gun control. michael bloomberg, an advocate of stricter gun laws, says that president obama and mitt romney to lead the conversation. >> somebody has got to do this. particularly in an election year, the candidates need to stand up and say once and for all, yes, they feel terrible, yes it is a tragedy, we have sympathy for the families, but it is time for this country to do something. that is the job for the president. i do not know what they will do, but it is incumbent on them to tell us specifically, not just in broad terms the death on sunday, white house press secretary jay carney said that the president would not address new gun could quitrent -- concerns.

for more, we are joined by survivors of gun violence and family members of those who did not survive come violence. we start with democratic congressman member of new york caroline mccarthy. her husband was killed and her son injured in the long island massacre that killed six people. before we talk about what needs to be done, go back to 1993. talk about what happened to your husband and son. >> it was december 7, 1993. my husband and my son and so many other commuters were taking the long island rail road back home on the 5:33 train. right before it pulled into garden city, colin ferguson, the shooter, got up.

yet many magazines with 15 bullets in each gun. he started shooting -- pointing his gun and everybody's head and started shooting. the second person to be shot and killed was my husband. my son, who was sitting next to him, was also shot in the head, but he did survive. even in this time, he is partially paralyzed and needs to go to physical therapy a couple of times a week. it was from there -- people just do not understand what these horrific wounds do to people. we did not know whether kevin was going to live. it was months before we knew he was sure he would survive. we did not know whether he would walk again. we did not even know if he would ever be able to speak again. i have to say, he was certainly brave through everything.

all i could tell him was that he would survive and that we would have work to do. my background is in nursing. i still consider myself a nurse. it was at that time when kevin was learning to speak again, he asked me, how could this happen? i did not know. that is when i started to become an activist and looking at gun violence in this country. >> describe what happened. you went to your congressman's office? who was that at the time, and how did that launch your political career? >> i did meet with our congressman at the time. he said he supported second amendment rights. he was once supported by the national rifle association. i was begging him, when the vote came up in congress, that he would vote against it as other members of the long island delegation at that time were

going to do. we knew it would be done to one or two votes to get it passed. unfortunately, in the end, he voted against the bill, and i happen to be in the capital at that time, as other bidders, in the balcony looking down. i did not know the rules and regulations of congress and apparently you are not allowed to yell out. when the bill passed, i just yelled and said thank you, thank you. of course, then the security guards came over. but to know that my member of congress, the area that he represented, six people killed, 21 injured severely. i was coming down the capitol steps after the vote and a reporter asked me how bad i was at my congressmen and i said i was furious. he said, what are you going to do about it? would you run for congress?

at that moment i said i would. the next thing i knew, when i got home, my phone was ringing off the hook. people were showing up at my door saying, we want to help you. by the way, at that time, i was a registered republican, but it did not matter. republicans and democrats were there to help me run for congress, and that is what i did. >> and you won in what year? >> 1996. >> you have been in office ever since. you ran on a platform of gun- control. what has been accomplished in that time and what do you make of jay carney saying that the current laws are adequate to stop someone like this, if we enforce them? >> actually, that is not true. if we're going to enforce laws on the books, which i fully support, we have the system that

basically does back rent checks. as you know, the shooter past those legally. if he had been adjudicated to be mentally ill, he would not have been able to buy the gun. the problem is, he was able to buy the large magazines, assault weapons. as everyone remembers, when the assault weapons bill was passed, four years, it was very difficult to get assault weapons. you also could not get the very large magazine clips. unfortunately, in the year 2004, congress allowed it to expire, even though at that time president bush said he would sign the bill, and so did vice president cheney. unfortunately, it did expire. now we have the assault weapons and a large magazine back on the market for anyone to buy.

>> the assault weapons banned did sense that in 2004. i wanted to get your response to john mccain, who appeared on "state of the union." he said he was skeptical that more gun control was necessary. >> i think the strongest second amendment right, people would be glad to have a conversation, but to leap to the conclusion that this was caused by the fact we do not have more gun control legislation, i do not think has been proved. >> that is senator mccain. we are speaking to carolyn mccarthy of long island, new york. your response to the man that was beaten by president obama? >> how i would respond to the center -- and i certainly have a great deal of respect for him on many issues -- but with that said, when you have these mass killings going back to 1993,

when my husband was killed and son shot, all the way back to friday night, large magazines were not able to be purchased. now they are on the streets. all of these shootings, what was the common denominator? they had large magazines that could kill as many people as possible in a short period of time. in the movie house that night, the police responded in 90 seconds. the shooter was able to wound 70 people and kill. the only reason he did not kill or maim other people was because his gun jammed. can you imagine if he had had more? the courts have already said people have made right to keep a

gun to defend themselves in the home. we are not infringing upon that. what we are saying is, large magazines, assault weapons do not need to be on the streets for the ordinary citizen. they are meant for the military, they are meant for safety officers, police officers, who by the way, are being killed by these guns now. the american people understand that. the problem is, politicians, legislators across the country are intimidated by the end are a handgun manufacturers who put so much money out there to say, we will take you down in an election if you go up against us. common sense will say we can take prudent gun safety legislation and try to save people's lives. that is the bottom line.

if people would really look and what it cost, this country, on health care, billions of dollars are spent every single year for those that survived. >> i know you have to leave, but asking you this question now 20 years later, coming down the steps of congress, we have now seen this next mass killing. what are you doing about this in congress? what is the legislation you are pushing now specifically? you're a republican, you then ran on the democratic ticket. it does not batter your party. you are a democrat now president obama said that we do not the new legislation. what are you doing? >> from what i saw, the president did not say that, his spokesperson said that.

last night, i watched him speak at the services for the victims, after visiting the victims. he did say that we had to do something to stop this amount of violence in our country. it will be up to me and many members of congress to convince him. we are willing to lose an election to save people's lives, and the president should be doing the same thing. >> the legislation that has been stalled in congress this year that would have stopped the high-capacity drum magazine large enough of holding 60 rounds per minute would have been restricted under this legislation. congress thiswhat is that call? >> actually, your audience could help. we are trying to get people to sign on to support hr 308. we want people to call the white

house, we want people to call the speaker of the house, to say this is common-sense legislation that will stop these large magazines from being on our streets, being in the stores, on the internet. it is important. people need to start saying we need to be involved more. we can certainly outnumber many of those and remembers that keep fighting back. we have the numbers in this country but we need to hear their voices. basically, what it would do, it would bring back the assault weapons ban ads for large magazines could not be sold. we need america's support. your listeners can be part of that solution. we are asking everybody to share their voice. but the president know there is support from the other side, us, that have been tried to produce

-- trying to reduce gun violence in this country. are we going to have another massacre? are we going to be having this conversation again? we cannot wait any more. i can do what i need to do in congress but i need the support of many other members of congress, and i hope your message and my message gets out to your listeners, that they are capable of doing something. >> finally, to those to say the victims have not even been buried yet, to use this as a political opportunity to start the bidding and control is unconscionable, which i've heard on various networks. your response to that? >> unfortunately, the only time we ever even talk about this issue is when we see a slaughter, as we saw on friday. the only time that we get to talk about this issue was last

january, when gabrielle giffords and others were shot and killed. speaking as a victim, i have the right to use that voice. yes, i am now a member of congress, so i have that right. no one pays attention to this issue until there are killings like this. we need to do something to try to prevent killings in the future, which will happen, unfortunately. >> carolyn mccarthy, thank you for being with us. former republican from new york but ran for office after her husband was killed and son injured in a shooting incident in 1993. when we come back, we will talk about the virginia tech massacre of 2007, and we will speak with one of the survivors. he was shot four times and now

troubles around the country speaking about gun-control. his name is colin goddard.

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in a moment, we will be joined by colin goddard, shot four times in the region it tech massacre. he now works with the brady campaign to prevent gun violence. now i want to play a clip from the film "the living 32." >> as soon as she opened the door, she shut it again and said everyone get down and, 11. i got my cell phone out and called 911. as soon as i did that come on bullets came through the door. everyone jumped to the floor. >> we are seeing police with

their guns drawn, students running out. >> all of the doors to our building were shot from the outside with a sign that said if they were open, the door would explode. i felt getting shot. you hear that sharp -- feel that sharp sting and many feel the blood trickled down your leg, warm on your body. and then the banks started getting louder again. you could tell he was in our room. this time he more methodically came down each row and was still firing. at one point, he was standing by my feet and that is when i was shot a second time in my left hip.

he shot me a third time in my right shoulder and then i've put my whole body and expose my right shot -- right side. then i was shot again. i remember only a couple more gunshots after that and then everyone got quiet. just as it all started, it stopped. it felt like an eternity before police came to our door. they could and open it up. they needed help from the inside because there were bodies in the way. as soon as the police came in the room, they said shooter down. shooter down? i did not know he had committed suicide in front of the classroom. soon after that, the medics began their triage of the students on the floor. i would hear them tell others, this person is yellow, this one is a red, black tag, black tag, black tag. that is when i realize that others did not make it.

>> colin goddard, a survivor of the 2007 virginia tech massacre, working at the brady campaign. welcome to democracy now! this slaughter that took place on friday, at this point the number is 12 dead, scores injured, none of them critically. as you campaign on capitol hill and around the country, the discussion is that it is too early to have this discussion about gun-control. president obama's has come control must focus around existing law, not new laws. your response? >> that is the exact same thing that people said after the shooting in tucson, ariz., and we never had the conversation. now is not the time to talk about solutions? it is beyond time. this conversations should have started before the shooting. it is insane when you hear this

from people who say this. this is what people are outraged. people should realize this could happen to them. everyone tries to go to opening night. it is difficult this time because i am seeing people talk about this in ways that have not been talked about before. our website has crashed numerous time because of the activity on there. america is ready for the conversation. we need to talk about what we can change. we do not want this to happen to somebody in the future. >> the suspect bought larger rounds of ammunition online. what laws specifically could change this? is it possible to change this under existing law? the suspect order 3000 rounds of handgun ammunition, 3000 rounds, 2 and 50 shells for a shotgun.

it was pretty much as easy as ordering a book from amazon. he also bought bulletproof vests, high-capacity drum magazines, a purchase that would have been restricted under proposed legislation that has been stalled in washington for more than a year. how would laws or what you are pushing for change this? and talk about the guns themselves. >> just eight years ago, nobody could walk into a bss pro shops -- bass pro shop and marked with that number of rounds. it is insane that we can examine this situation and then get out rich that someone can walk out of their ready for military combat with body armor, riot helmets, military weapons designed to kill as many people as possible. there was no other use for these things but we seldom to our

general public. the americans have a choice. if we do not want this to be sold to the average person, they need to get out raged and express their rage. that is the missing piece so far to their representatives. they can go to the brady campaign to do that. their involvement in this will be what changes the situation so that another american city doesn't have this happen in a few months and we are back having the same conversation. >> the call whether governor john hickenlooper said that even if the suspect had not had access to guns, he would have found a way to create or. >> this is a human problem. how we can have such a warped individual and no one around aware, i worry if we got rid of all the guns, certainly, we have more gun violence and other -- and in other countries, but even

if he did not have access to guns, he was diabolical. he would have found explosives or poisonous gas, something to create this horror. >> that was the colorado governor john hickenlooper. colin goddard, your response? >> no one is talking about removing everyone's gone, so i'm not sure where he is coming from. i have heard people say the exact same thing to me about virginia tech. if he did not have a gun, he would've had a knife. i would have had somebody walk through -- rather have somebody walk into our classroom with a knife than a glock. who your -- who are your major opponent? it may seem obvious to ask in this country, but explain how they fight you, a victim of the virginia tech massacre. >> we have bills in the congress right now that would address the

issues surrounding this particular incident, and other shootings which happen every day. we have bills in both houses that would not -- would not allow people to buy this kind of weaponry, not allow people to buy guns unchecked. we have solutions at our fingertips. it is just a matter of people holding their hands up. this is the easy part. we can answer the how but why is a tough question. be part of this. please join us. we cannot have this conversation several months from now when the next shooting happens. if we do not change anything, we should not expect anything to be different in the future. >> your major opponents. how powerful is the nra, when you walk around congress? have you had debates with them?

>> the common political wisdom was that supporting gun reform was not popular but it is 2012. get a grip. it is a new country. we just had somebody win the election cycle, gerry connolly, because of gun-control. he said we should not have guns in schools. he won because of that. the old, and acquitted mentality of this world up here in d.c. is false. the vast majority of american people support specific things. you cannot say you one more gun control -- what does that even mean? do you want assault weapons and military weapons to be sold to the public without a background check? even 9% of gun owners understand and that is insane. it is finally putting the missing pieces in place. we should have public outrage, and it has to be focused at your

representatives. they are the ones that have bills at their fingertips. visiting the keep -- pretty campaign is the first up in the process. if you agree that we are better than this, check us out on facebook and start talking about it. >> colin goddard, thank you for being with us. a survivor of the virginia tech massacre. he was shot four times. 32 people were killed. james holmes, a suspected shooter behind the colorado shooting, may face the death penalty. according to "the denver post" the prosecution has sought death penalties against others. we are joined now by bud welch. his daughter julie was killed in the oklahoma city bombing in

1995. he has become a vocal component -- opponent of the death penalty. he oppose the death penalty for tim mcveigh. welcome back. i remember speaking to you years ago. your daughter was killed in that bombing that killed 160 people, more than 600 injured. you started off by supporting the death penalty, didn't you? >> yes, all my life i had opposed the death penalty. however, i went through the typical revenge i was speaking after the bombing. i was finally able to start thinking more rationally about things and once again became opposed to it. i have been traveling the world for more than 16 years, speaking against the death penalty, testifying before members in various countries, state house

is, what have you. the discussion right now over the death penalty in the aurora case should not even be discussed. the death penalty is a political issue. i do not think that should even be talked about. give people some time. the trial will not start for a year and half. think things out rationally before prosecutors charge of into that. we have to remember one thing about politics. the death penalty is a key part of prosecutors being reelected. in a reelection campaign, they pound on the podium, and what they want to do is prove to us there is the baddest ass in the jungle and tough on crime by taught -- constantly talking about the death penalty. >> back to april 1995.

you were living in oklahoma city? >> yes, in fact, i still live here. >> your daughter julie dies. you want to find to the killer is, and you want him killed. what was the epiphany, if you will, what changed you? >> amy, it was not a fifth -- an epiphany. the most important thing that the family members in aurora have it is time. first of all, time to get rid of their initial anger, retribution. that is normal. i did not realize at the time i was going through, what i was doing was quite normal. i started having some guilt feelings about having all this anger. later, i was able to understand that that was ok. they need time. that is just like the family of

the shooter, what they will be going through. it is horrific, what the mcveigh family went through. i went through -- i met them. i met his father about 40 months after julie's death, and his youngest daughter jennifer. that was a terrific healing process for me, to be able to extend my hand to them. i got involved in columbine, met some of the family members there, and i actually met one of the shooters' parents and found them to be a very nice family. people in columbine kept saying, the parents of the two young men -- how were these children raised? they were not raised any different from anyone else they went to school with.

they have some pretty nice homes, the kids at separate rooms, and they were doing things as teenagers that the parents were not aware of. i think, eventually, we need to extend a hand to those families. they cannot go through it like i have, speaking more than 16 years, telling all these wonderful stories, probably embellishing on her career. the fact that she spoke five languages, i am so proud of that. i have the chance to do that. bill mcveigh never had a chance to tell anyone with a great kid tim was at times. i knew people that went to school with him. they said he was a quiet guy but ok. he was apparently a good military man. we gave him three medals for his service and he came back with ptsd. the other two he served with, they had ptsd as well.

mcveigh just had it worse than others. >> you mentioned columbine, eric harris, one of the shooters. he had a school report about guns in school and he said, more and more, we hear about rampages in schools. some can be prevented and some cannot. almost every shooting can be prevented in some way but we need to spend the necessary money and resources to figure out how. >it is amazing to read the words from one of the shooters and columbine. we will be posting this on our website. the alleged shooter has not gone to court but it is believed he will face the death penalty. your final thoughts, for you, for your daughter? >> i have a tremendous amount of compassion for the victims' family members.

the first year after drooly possible death was the worst year in my life. i never want to repeat that again. i am very familiar with the area of aurora. i lived in colorado springs for several years. my first child is buried in colorado springs. i am very familiar with the people in colorado. i just have a lot of compassion for them. they must have lots of time to go through the healing process. >> thank you for being with us. even all these years later, our condolences on the death of your daughter julie. bud welch has spoken around the country against the death penalty.

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