10/23/12 10/23/12 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from california, this is "democracy now!" >> our navy is smaller now than any time since 1917. the navy said they needed to over 300 ships to carry out their mission. we are headed to the low 200's. >> you mentioned the navy. we have fewer ships than in 1916. governor, we have your horses and bayonets because the nature of our military has changed. >> expanding the debate. as president obama and mitt romney face off for the last time before the general election, we break the sound barrier by including third-party

candidates jill stein and rocky anderson into the debate. >> republican and democratic parties may have some differences, but they have both morphed into a militarist, anti- democratic course that betrays the most basic and civil human- rights. >> democratic and republican establishments continue to inflict austerity on the american people while they continue squandering trillions of dollars on wars for oil, wall street bailouts, tax breaks for the wealthy, an enormous private health insurance waste. >> all of that and more coming up. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president obama and republican challenger mitt romney met for their third and final debate

monday night before the general election two weeks from today. with the focus on foreign policy, both candidates shared wide agreement on issues including support for the israeli government, the withdrawal of u.s. forces from afghanistan, and opposition u.s. military involvement in syria. but they clashed over a few key points including military spending, iran and libya. the one exchange, obama chided romney for seeking to increase military spending by an additional $2 trillion. >> governor romney has not spent enough time looking at how our military works. he mentioned the navy and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. governor, with your horses and bayonets because the nature of our military has changed. we have these things called aircraft carriers where planes land on them. we have ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines. and so the question is not taken the battleship where we're

counting ships, it is, what are our capabilities -- the >> despite caution nonmilitary spending, the two candidates struggled at times to differentiate themselves on key foreign policy areas. asked about u.s. drone warfare abroad, romney said he fully backs the obama administration's efforts. >> let me ask you, governor, because we know president obama's position on this, what is your position on the use of drones? >> well, i believe we should use any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. and it is widely reported that drones are being used in drone strikes, and i support that entirely and feel the president was right to up the usage of that technology and believe that we should continue to use it to can the -- continue to go after people who represent a threat to the station and to our friends. as i said earlier, we're going to have to do more than just going after leaders and killing bad guys, important as that is.

>> we'll have highlights from the debate and are expanding the debate special with third-party candidates jill stein and rocky anderson after the headlines. a retired cia agent who publicly confirmed the torture of al qaeda operative abuse of vita is set to plead guilty in court today to leaking classified information. john kiriakou who served from 1990 to 2004 is best known for the 2007 abc news interview detailing how zubaydah was waterboarded in cia custody. >> at the time, i felt waterboarding was something we needed to do. as time has passed, and as september 11 has moved farther and farther back into history, i think i've changed my mind. i think waterboarding is probably something we should not be doing. >> why do you say that now? >> because we are americans and we are better than that.

>> under a plea deal, kiriakou will admit to a single count of revealing the identity of a covert officer, which carries a potential sentence of up to 30 months. his indictment marked the latest in the obama administration's crackdown on government whistleblowers. an african-american woman in louisiana has a brutally attacked and left with serious injuries in an apparent hate crime. 20-year-old sharmeka moffitt reportedly told police she was set on fire by three men who wrote the initials kkk and a racial slur on her car. she suffered burns on more than half her body and is in critical condition. no arrests have been made in the case. doctors for the pakistani teenager activist malala yousafza say she's been able to stand and write for the first time since being shot and seriously wounded earlier this month. the 14-year-old malala is undergoing medical treatment in britain after militants shot her for publicly campaigning

for girls' education. her british doctors said she is showing slow improvement day-by- day. >> she is not out of the woods yet. having said that, she is doing very well. in fact, she was standing with some help for the first time this morning. she is communicating very freely. she is writing. she has a tube in because her way was swollen by the passing of the bullet. >> of violence continues to flare in the panamanian city of colon and its protests over the sale of state-owned land to private companies. on monday, police fired gunshots to disperse demonstrators who had blocked roads. the shootings followed days of protests that saw least three deaths last week, including a 9- year-old boy who died when police opened fire. the honduras supreme court has struck down a proposal for a number of so-called private cities with their own tax and

justice systems. wealthy landowners have pushed the plan, drawn opposition from human rights groups. the honduran justices ruled the establishment of private jurisdictions outside of honduran law would violate the constitution. former president jimmy carter is accusing the israeli government of abandoning any effort to reach a peace deal with the palestinians. speaking during a visit to israel and the occupied west bank, president carter said israel, with u.s. backing, has never been less publicly committed to a two-state solution. >> i think for the first time in my memory of the mideast peace process, we have reached a crisis stage. it because all the previous prime ministers of israel have been detective lee and proven the committed to a two-day solution. i was at every prime minister i have known has been a pursuer of the two-day solution.

i don't know that president obama has found prime minister netanyahu is willing to go that route. >> in canada, thousands of people gathered outside the provincial parliament in victoria, british columbia on monday to protest a massive oil pipeline. the rally was billed as the largest to date against the enbridge corporation's northern gateway pipeline project, which would carry crude oil from alberta to canada's west coast. critics say it stands to cut through sensitive environmental areas and first nations' lands. rallies were held across the u.s. on monday in a national day of action against police brutality and the targeting of people of color. in new york, hundreds joined the october 22 coalition for a rally in march leaving from union square. -- a rally and march leaving from union square. >> three robbers rocked my uncles grocery store. my brother was tried to escape

the robbery and not get killed. when he ran out of the store, there is a police officer in front of the door and shot and. the police officer says it was a mistake. you cannot just kill someone as a mistake. >> across the country, the police brutality movement is coming back to a place where people are holding police accountable from a grass-roots level to a legislative level. we see the committee safety act being passed in new york as well as a class action lawsuit against stop and frisk all way down to grass roots organizing. >> a recent study from the not the max grass-roots movement out at least 110 african-americans were killed by police, security guards, and self-appointed vigilantes during the first six months of the year, a rate of roughly one every 40 hours. muslim american man has returned home to new york after his inclusion on this government's no-fly list left him stranded in europe for over three weeks.

samir suljovic had been unable to return from vienna and munich after the u.s. government barred him from flying without explanation. he was finally allowed to board a u.s. bound flight after a public campaign on his behalf. samir suljovic says he believes he was targeted because of his muslim faith. and a longtime native american activist russell means has died at the age of 72. russell means was an early leader of the american indian movement who helped head the uprising at wounded knee in 1973. and those are some of the headlines. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. our 100-the road in city tour in summer fallow, california. president obama and republican challenger mitt romney squared off monday in florida in their final presidential debate before the november 6 general election. in a debate focused on foreign

policy, both candidates agreed on a number of issues including the secret drone war, u.s. support for israel, the withdrawal of u.s. forces from afghanistan, and opposition to u.s. military involvement in syria. but they clashed over military spending, iran, and libya. several key international issues were not addressed at all, including climate change, the economic crisis in europe, and u.s.-backed drug war in latin america. last night broke the sound barrier once again by adding the voices of two third party presidential candidates that were excluded from the debate. jill stein of the green party and rocky anderson of the justice the party. we air the obama-romney debate, pausing the tape after each question to give dr. stein and rocky anderson a chance to respond the same questions put to the major party candidates. we also invited libertarian candidate gary johnson, but he declined to join us.

we recorded the show in front of a live audience here of the kosher marin jewish community center in san raphael california. today we bring you highlights from our expanding the debate special. we begin with debate moderator bob schieffer of cbs news. >> the first segment is the challenge of the changing middle east and the new face of terrorism. i will put this into two segment so you'll have two topic questions within this one segment on that subject. the first question, and it concerns libya, the controversy over what happened there continues. for americans are dead, including an american ambassador. questions remain. what happens? what caused it? was a spontaneous? was it an intelligence failure? was it a policy failure? was there an attempt to mislead people about what really happened? governor romney, he said this

was an example of an american policy in the middle east that is unraveling before our very eyes. i'd like to hear each of you give your thoughts on that. governor romney, you won the toss. you go first. >> thank you, bob, and thank you for agreeing to moderate this debate this evening. thank you to lynn university for welcoming us here, mr. president, it is good to be with you again. we were together at a humorous event a little earlier, and it's nice to maybe be funny this time not on purpose. this is an area of great concern to the entire world and to america in particular, which is to see a complete change in the structure and the environment of the middle east. with the arab spring him a great deal of hope that there would be a change towards more moderation and opportunity for greater participation on the part of women in public life and in economic life in the middle east. but instead we have seen in

nation after nation a number of disturbing events. in syria, 30,000 civilians having been killed by the military there. we see in libya an attack apparently by -- well, i think we know now by terrorists of some kind against our people there, >> to people dead. our hearts and minds go to them. mali has been taken over by al qaeda-type individuals. in egypt, muslim brotherhood president. we're seeing a pretty dramatic reversal in the kind of hopes we have for that region. for years closer to a new query -- nuclear weapon, we have iran. i congratulate the president of taking a osama bin laden and going after the leadership in al qaeda, but we cannot kill our way out of this mess. we're going to have to put in place a very comprehensive and robust strategy to help the world of islam and other parts of the world reject this radical

violent extremism, which -- it's really not on the run. it's certainly not hiding. this is a group that is now involved in 10 or 12 countries, and it presents an enormous threat to our friends, to the world come to america long term, and we must have a comprehensive strategy to help reject this kind of extremism. >> mr. president. >> my first job as commander in chief is to keep the american people safe, and that is what we have done over the last four years. we ended the war in iraq, refocused our attention on those who actually killed us on 9/11. as a consequence, al qaeda's core leadership has been decimated. in addition, we are able to transition out of afghanistan and irresponsible way, making sure that afghans take responsibility for a security, and that allows us also to rebuild alliances and make friends around the world to

combat future threats. with respect to libya, as i indicated in the last debate, which we received that phone call, i immediately made sure that, number one, we did everything we could to secure those americans who were still in harm's way. no. 2, that we would investigate exactly what happened. and most important, number three, that we would go after those who killed americans, and we would bring to justice. and that is exactly what we're going to do. it is important step back and think about what happened in libya. keep in mind, that i and americans took leadership in organizing an international coalition that nature that we were able to -- without putting troops on the ground, at the cost of less than what we spent in two weeks in iraq -- liberate a country that had been under the yoke of dictatorship for 40 years, got rid of a despot who had killed americans. and as a consequence, despite this tragedy, you had tens of

thousands of libyans after the events benghazi marching and saying, america is our friend. we stand with them. now, that represents the opportunity we have to take advantage of. and you know, governor romney, i'm glad that you agree that we have been successful in going after al qaeda, but i have to tell you, you know, your strategy previously has been one that has been all over the map and is not designed cuban- american sake or the bill on the opportunities that exist in the middle east. >> third-party candidate, green party presidential candidate jill stein, you have two minutes to respond to the question about the situation in libya. >> thank you so much to "democracy now!" for expanding this debate in a way that is absolutely essential. here, i getting set up could not hear all of the comments barack obama and mitt

romney, but i will respond generally to the issue of libya and the tragic events at the embassy. it is very clear there is blowback going on across the middle east, not only the unrest directed at the libyan embassy, likewise at the embassies across the middle east -- including in egypt -- we are seeing in afghanistan, our soldiers are being shot and by the police forces they are supposed to be training in afghanistan. we are seeing in pakistan, 75% of the pakistani to identify the united states now as their enemy, not as their supporter or their allies. in many ways, we are seeing a very ill-conceived, irresponsible, and immoral or policy come back to haunt us where the united states foreign

policies have been based, unfortunate, on brute military force and wars for oil. under my administration, we will have a foreign policy based on international law and human rights and the use of diplomacy. instead of fighting wars for oil, we will be leading, as america, a leading the fight to put an end to climate change. in afghanistan and iraq, we have spent about $5 trillion. we have seen thousands and thousands of american lives lost, hundreds of thousands of civilian lives lost, about $1 trillion a year being spent on a massive, bloated military, industrial security budget. instead, we need to cut the military budget, right sizes year 2000 levels, and build a true secured here at home, bringing our war dollars home. >> rocky anderson from the justice the party, yet two minutes. >> the question was whether the

killings of the embassy in libya were a policy failure, whether they reflect a policy failure. and it is so clear to everyone that the policy failure has been the way the united states has treated so many nations in the middle east. we're like the bully that never got counseling, and we keep wondering, why don't they like us? we invaded iraq and occupied the country. it was completely illegal. two united nations secretary general declared it was illegal. it was a war of aggression and all done on a pack of lies. we aggravate the situation by keeping bases in so many other nations, including saudi arabia. at bolstering these tyrants. at the same time, engaging in

direct, unmanned drone strikes in at least four sovereign nations, killing in the process, hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent men, women, and children. that is the policy failure our belligerence, our efforts to control, to dominate, and to make certain that we will always have that control over resources in these nations. that is what this is all about. we took over the government. we overthrew the government in iran in 1953. if we are still paying a heavy price for that. we have a history of doing that in this country. i think the american people have finally got it. we need to start building for relationships with these nations and not go around with the kinds of belligerence or not only do we attack these countries, but mitt romney calling russia our greatest

geopolitical foe? we ought to be working with russia to bring about the peaceful resolution of what is happening in syria. this is a holistic problem with imperialists foreign policy that we have to turn around and the american people can see to it if we join together. >> justice party presidential candidate rocky anderson. when we come back, will continue with our expanding the debate special and the responses from all four candidates. bob schieffer's next question on the middle east, which focused on syria. ♪ [music break]

>> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we continue with our expanding the debate special, adding the voices of two third-party presidential candidates excluded from last night's debate -- jill stein of the green party and rocky anderson of the justice

party. this is debate moderator bob schieffer of cbs news. >> let me interject the second topic question about the middle east. and that is you both mentioned -- alluded to this, and that is syria. the were in syria has spilled over into lebanon. we have, what, more than 100 people that were killed there in a bomb. there were demonstrations there, eight people dead. mr. president, it has been more than a year since you saw -- since you told al-assad he had to go. since then, 30,000 syrians have died. 300,000 refugees. the war goes on. he is still there. should we reassess our policy and see if we can find a better way to influence events there, or is that even possible? you go first, sir. >> what we have done is organize the international community, saying al-assad has to go. we have mobilized sanctions

against that government. we have made sure that they are isolated. we provided humanitarian assistance, and we're helping the opposition organize, and we're particularly interested in making sure that we are mobilizing the moderate forces inside of syria. ultimately, syrians are going to have to determine their own future. everything we're doing, we're doing in consultation with our regions -- with our partners in the region, including syria. seeing takinge place in syria is heartbreaking, and that's why we're going to do everything we can make sure that we're helping the opposition. but we also have to recognize that, you know, for us to get more entangled militarily in syria is a serious step. and we have to do so making absolutely certain that we know who we are helping, that we're not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually could turnn

the region. and i am confident that al- assad's days are numbered. but we cannot do is to simply suggest that, as governor romney at times has suggested, that giving heavy weapons, for example, to the syrian opposition is a simple proposition that would lead us to be safer over the long term. >> governor. >> let's step back and talk about what is happening in syria and how important it is. first of all, off 30,000 people being killed by their government is a humanitarian disaster. secondly, syria is an opportunity for us because they play a minute -- they play an important role in the middle east, particularly right now. syria is iran's only ally in the arab world. it is the route to the sea. it is the route for them to arm hezbollah in lebanon, which threatens our ally israel. and so seeing syria remove al- assad is a very high priority for us.

no. 2, a replacement government being responsible people is critical for us. we don't have military involvement there. the right course for us is working to our partners and with our own resources to identify responsible parties within syria, organize them, bring them together in a form of -- if not government, a form of counsel back and take the lead in syria, and then make sure they have the arms necessary to defend themselves. we do need to make sure that they don't have arms that get into the wrong hands. those arms could be used to hurt us down the road. we also need a major record make this effort with our allies and particularly with israel. but the saudis and the qatari and the turks are all very concerned about this. they're willing to work with us. we need to have a very effective leadership occurred in syria, making sure that the insurgents there are armed and that the insurgents that become armed are people who will be the responsible parties. recognized -- i believe that al- assad must go. i believe he will go.

but i believe we want to make sure that we have the relationships of friendship with the people that take his place such that in the years to come we see syria as a friend and syria as a responsible party in the middle east. this is a critical opportunity for america. and what i'm afraid of is that we've watched of the past year or so first the president saying, well, will let the u.n. deal with it. kofi annan came in and said we're going to have a cease-fire and that did not work. then it looked to the russians and said, see if you can do something. we should be playing a leadership role there, not the published on the ground the military. >> first, rocky anderson, justice party presidential candidate. >> probably just for the greatest example of why we need to open up these presidential debates because the premises under which both of these candidates are operating, the constricted debate does such a disservice to the people of this

country. what do we hear a question of president obama say we have got to do everything we can to help the opposition and mitt romney's and we ought to be shipping them heavy arms. this is a call for a bloodbath in syria. many in the internal opposition -- in syria, not the outsiders, the muslim brotherhood and saudi arabia and the tories who are helping arm them, even the salafists you are associated with al qaeda going in and helping build bars for the opposition. this is really what we want as a country? we have no business doing anything other than working with russia and helping to bring about a peaceful resolution. it can be done. there are many in the internal opposition in syria that what exactly that approach. and they are saying -- i think probably the best thing that has been written about this recently

is jonathan still's excellent article in the latest nation magazine. what they want is for the international community to but out except for helping bring about a diplomatic, peaceful resolution and some of them say, you're not going to get any democratic advances through more violence in syria. >> green party presidential candidate jill stein. >> yes, and there is -- it is as if there is collective amnesia, as if we did not just go through a decade of $5 trillion and thousands of u.s. soldiers whose lives have been sacrificed, and far more civilians whose lives have been lost in an attempted military resolution to the civil and religious strife. we see in spite of putting the full force of the united states military and nato in trillions

of dollars in a decade, we have not, with all the power of that force, unable to resolve these conflicts on the ground in iraq and afghanistan. so how in the world with a far smaller commitment, given the colossal failure of the war effort in iraq and afghanistan, how in the world are they thinking that a lesser degree of military intervention is going to solve the problem? >> i don't think the problem here is that we failed. i think the problem is that we are trying to assert our will and dictate the results. can you imagine if there were muslim countries coming into the united states and occupying us, invading us, telling us where to run our government than running unmannned drones over canada and mexico, the nine states, determining who was going to live and who is going to die? in the process, killing

hundreds, if not thousands? innocent men, women, and children. it is an outrage. our national security is at risk long-term because of the hostility and hatred that we're generating throughout that part of the world. we have got to turn this around. and we, the american people, can do it. >> absolutely. this is a failed policy from the get go. not only failed in its impact, but has failed from its very conception. as the human rights had for the united nations navi pillay points out that with arms flowing into both sides in syria, you really have a catastrophe in the making. we need to stop the flow of the arms. in fact, the united states and the obama government undermined an international treaty that would have begun to slow down the international flow of arms. so the american role here has actually been to throw gasoline

on the fires of virtually every ethnic religious and national conflict around the middle east through its militaristic export of arms and the profit-sharing war industry. >> i would like to move to the next segment. red lines, israel and iran. would either of you be willing to declare an attack on israel is an attack on the united states? which, of course, is the same promise that we give to our close allies like japan. and if you make such a declaration, would that not deter iran? is certainly deterred the soviet union for a long time when we made that promise to our allies. mr. president customer >> first of all, israel is a true friend,

our greatest ally in the region. if america is attacked, america will stand with israel. >> you're saying that we have already made that declaration. >> i will stand with israel if they are attacked. this is a reason why, working with israel we have created the strongest military between our two countries in history. in fact, this week, we will be carrying out the strongest military exercise with israel in history. this very week. but to the issue of iran, as long as i'm president of the united states, iran will not get a nuclear weapon. i have made that clear when i came into office. within organized the strongest coalition and the strongest sanctions against iran in history. and in this crippling americana, they have dropped 80%. the oil production has plunged to the lowest level since the

refining of war with iraq 20 years ago. their economy is in shambles. we did this because a nuclear iran as a threat to our national security and is a threat to israel's national security. we cannot afford to have a nuclear arms race in the most volatile region of the world. iran is a state-sponsored terrorism. and for them to be a to provide nuclear technology to non state actors, that is unacceptable. and they have said they want to see israel wiped off the map. so the work we have done with respect to sanctions now offers iran a choice. they can take the diplomatic route and end their nuclear program or they will have to face a united world and the united states president, me, who said we're not going to take any options off the table. the disagreement i have with governor romney is that during the course of this campaign, he's often talked as if we should take premature military action. i think that would be a mistake

because when i've sent young men and women into harm's way, i always understand that that is the last resort, not the first resort. >> two minutes. >> first of all -- i want to underscore the same point the president made, which is that if i'm president of the united states, when i'm president of the nine states, we will stand with israel. and if israel is attacked, we have their back, not just diplomatically, not just culturally, but militarily. with regards to iran and the threat of iran, there's no question but that a nuclear iran, a nuclear-capable iran is unacceptable to america. it is a threat not only to our friends, but to us for iran to have nuclear material, nuclear weapons that could be used against us or used to be threatening to us. it's essential for us to understand what our mission is in iran, and that is to dissuade iran from having a nuclear weapon through peaceful and diplomatic means. and crippling sanctions are something i'd called for five

years ago when i was and is resting at a conference but i laid out seven steps crippling sanctions were number one. and they do work you're seeing it right now in the economy. number two, something i would add today is i would tighten those sanctions. i would say that ships that carry iranian oil cannot come into our ports. i imagine the eu would agree as well. i would say companies that are moving the oil cannot. i would tighten those sanctions further. secondly, i would take on diplomatic isolation efforts. i would make sure ahmadinejad is indicted under the genocide convention. his words amount to genocide incitation. i would mention the diplomats are treated like the pariah they are around the world, this and we treated the apartheid diplomats of south africa. we need to increase pressure time and again on iran because anything other than a solution

to this which stops this nuclear folly of theirs is unacceptable to america. and of course, a military action is a last resort. it is something one would only, only consider if all of the other avenues had been tried to the full extent. >> justice party presidential candidate rocky anderson, two minutes. >> this is a predictable. once again, president obama repeats the lie that president ahmadinejad and the iran stated that he wanted to wipe israel off the map. he never said it. he referred to the regime in israel one day being in the dustbin of history. it was a misinterpretation, and it is so warmongering of both of these candidates to talk about how they will basically blow iran away. romney wants to impose crippling sanctions. who would he be crippling? he would be crippling, among others, some of the hundreds of thousands of people who stood in

tehran and a candlelight vigil in sympathy for the victims of the 9/11 attacks on the united states. by the way, the people of the united states have stood in solidarity with the iranian people after their last election with candlelight vigils and this country. it is time the people of both nations expressed their solidarity with one another and express our disdain, are discussed with these leaders who are engaging in misconduct that is ultimately going to lead to utter tragedy for the people of iran. would mitt romney the sow was to go over and attack mockery of because they have a nuclear bomb? how about pakistan? how about russia? we have an obligation, number one, to start reducing the number of nuclear weapons and provide that kind of leadership because it is the united states u.s. led the way for other

nations to build up their nuclear armaments. if iran feels like they're going to be attacked that is all they're hearing nowadays, of course they're going to consider building a nuclear capability to deter an attack. but there is no evidence that any nuclear capability. it isn't other black frontally basis -- basis for a romney to say iran is four years closer to building one. >> dr. jill stein. >> we're seeing the candidates again very similar to each other. they are both saber rattling about iran, both of down there obedience to the right-wing government in israel -- both are rattling their obedience to the right-wing government of israel. airbus and the will stop at nothing, but war will be the last result. we see shades of gray between the republican and democratic

candidate spread we're not sing with the american people really need and what international security really needs. in fact, iran recently hosted the nonaligned nations. it is not just iran. it was all the non-aligned nations with them -- brazil and argentina and many others -- that together put forward a proposal for eliminating nuclear weapons throughout the middle east. in fact, eliminating nuclear weapons throughout the world. that is the true solution that we should be getting behind. in fact, i should add that -- >> 10 seconds. >> the slave-like mentality toward israel is absolutely unjustified. we need to start raising the bar for israel and holding them to an equal standard for supporting human-rights and international law and ending occupations and illegal settlements. >> that was green party

presidential candidate jill stein. when we continue with our expanding the debate special after the break, all four candidates discuss the military budget. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we continue with our expanding the debate special, including two third-party presidential candidates excluded from last night's debate -- dr. jill stein of the green party and rocky anderson of the justice party. during a special broadcast monday night, we broke the sound barrier during the brahma -- obama-romney debate, to get real-time responses from jill stein and rocky anderson. this is debate moderator bob schieffer of cbs news. >> are you saying you want a bigger military, a bigger navy? you do not want to cut defense spending. what i want to ask you, we were talking about financial issues. where you going to get the money. >> first of all, i'm going through from the beginning we will cut about 5% of the discretionary budget, excluding

military. >> [indiscernible] >> i will be happy to have to take a look. come on our website. we will have a balanced budget in eight to 10 years. number one, i get rid of obamacare. there are a number of things that sound good but we cannot afford them but that does not sound good and is not affordable. i would get rid of that from day one. we take program after program, and that we don't absolutely have to have come and get rid of them. number two, we take some programs that we're guandique, like medicaid, which is a program for the poor. we take that health care program for the poor and give to the states to run, because states run these programs more efficiently. as a governor, i thought, please, give me this program. >> can he do that? >> i can run this more efficiently and the federal government. states like arizona and rhode island have taken these medicaid

dollars, have shown they can run these programs more effectively. i want to do those two things and get us to a balanced budget within eight to 10 years. a quick spot -- >> with the military -- >> let's go back to the military, though critics he is not answer the first question. >> governor romney has talked about $4.20 or $5 during tax cuts that he's going to pay for by closing deductions. the math does not work, the continues to claim he is going to do it. he wants to spend another $2 to in on military spending on -- of the military is not asking for. keep in mind that our military spending has gone up every single year that i have been in office. we spend more on our military than the next 10 countries combined -- china, russia, france, the nine -- the united kingdom, you name it, next 10. and what i did was work with our joint chiefs of staff to think about what we are going to need

in the future to make sure that we are safe? and that is the budget will put forward. but what you cannot do is spend $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military's not asking for, $5 trillion on tax cuts, you say you're going to pay for by closing loopholes and deductions and without naming what those loopholes and deductions are, and then somehow you're also going to deal with the deficit that we've already got. the math simply doesn't work. but when it comes to our military, what we have to think about is not come in know, just budgets, we got to think about capabilities. we need to be thinking about cybersecurity. we need to be thinking about space. that's exactly what our budget does, but it is driven by strategy not by politics. it's not driven by members of congress and what it would like to see. it is driven by what are we going to need to keep the american people safe? that is exactly what our budget

does. it then also allows us to reduce our deficit, which is a significant national security concern, because we have got to make sure that our economy is strong at home so that we can project military power overseas. >> bob, i'm pleased that i've balanced budgets. i was in the world of business for 25 years. if you didn't balance your budget, you run out of business. i went to the olympics that was out of balance, and we got it on balance and made a success. i had the chance to be governor of a state. for years in a row, democrats and republicans came together to balance the budget. we cut taxes 19 times, balanced our budget. the president hasn't balanced a budget yet. i expect the opportunity to do so myself. let's talk about military spending and that's this. our navy is older -- excuse me -- our navy is smaller now than any time since 1917. the navy said they needed 313 ships to carry out their mission. we're headed to the low 200

possibly go through sequestration. that's unacceptable to me. our air force is older and smaller than at any time since 1947. change for the first time since fdr. since fdr we have always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once, now we're changing to one conflict. look, this is my view, it is the highest responsibility of the president of the united states, which is to maintain the safety of the american people. i will not cut our military budget by $1 trillion, which is the combination of budget cuts the president has as well as the sequestration cuts. in my view, that is making our future less certain and less secure. and won't do it. >> bob, i need to comment first of all, the sequester is not something that i propose. it will not happen. the budget that we're talking about is not reducing our military spending. it's maintaining it. i think governor romney has not spent enough time looking at how

our military works. you mentioned the navy and that we have fewer ships than in 1916. we also have your horses and bayonets because the nature of our military's changed. we have these things called aircraft carriers where planes land on them. we have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines. and so the question is not a game of battleship where we're counting ships. it's what are our capabilities. so when i sit down with his secretary of the navy and the joint chiefs of staff, we determine how are we going to be best able to meet all of our defense needs in a way that also keeps faith with our troops, that also makes sure that our veterans have the kind of support that they need when they come home. and that is not reflected in the kind of budget that you're putting forward, because it just won't work. >> all right. perhaps we visited the website quite a bit and it still does not work. >> a lot to cover. >> dr. jill stein, green party

presidential candidate, on this issue of military spending. >> i think they both made the case for us. the numbers do not add up. we cannot continue spending $1 trillion a year on this bloated military industrial security complex without having to really pay the price here at home. they are talking about a balanced budget. they are talking about needing to educate our students. let's look at where that money is going. we are spending trillions of every year, not only on the bloated military budget, but on the wars for oil as well as the bailout for wall street and tax breaks for the very wealthy. unfortunately, we do not see either of these candidates, not the democrats and not the republicans, really changing any of those really serious

problems. right now the federal reserve is bailing out wall street again, effectively for the fourth time. this is the third quantitative easing on top of the tarp program, which was $700 billion. the $700 billion under george bush has become many, many trillions under barack of ayman. so these bailouts continue. and now we're doing a quantitative easing to a tune of $40 billion every month, again, to bail out the banks. it is time to be breaking up the big banks and bailing out the students instead. they have got it the other way around they are breaking up the students and bailing out the banks. we need to put an end to that. likewise, we are squandering trillions of dollars over the coming decade on a massive, wasteful health insurance,

private health insurance bureaucracy. the alternative to austerity is actually moving to medicare for all, single payer system that makes austerity unnecessary. [applause] in fact, by moving to a single payer, medicare for all system, we get a system that people are happy with, that they love and want to defend from government tampering, in fact, and the system covers everyone comprehensively, puts you back in charge of your healthcare, and in addition, it actually saves as trillions over the coming decade, equivalent to that austerity plan that they were talking about. and the way it does that is by changing -- what we have right now is 30% of every health care dollar is being spent on bureaucracy, red tape, and paper pushing under medicare, that 30% shrinks down to 2% to 3%.

that is enough to cover everybody. and we deserve that. in addition, under medicare for all, this health care inflation, which is going like this, much faster -- it is inflating much faster than inflation and the economy. but what happens when you move to medicare for all system, is that that hyperinflation in health care, with your premiums and arco is going up practically every month, that puts an end to. so we go back to an inflation level like the level of the economy and that saves as trillions of dollars over the coming decade. so these are the ways that we should be spending our tax dollars, not on the military, but on what we need at home. and by inserting those dollars instead of squandering them, we

can spend them on the things we need i'm bailing out the students and on creating public higher education, which is free, tuition-free, the way it should be. >> justice party presidential candidate former salt lake city mayor rocky anderson. >> we offered another great example of how the republicans and democrats for candidates, just like the coverts and congress, are basically one in the same in terms of their corporatism and militarism. it is just a matter of degree. president obama is bragging about increasing the military spending in these last four years? this is how it works. the f-22 weapons program, republicans and democrats alike try to keep it light, even though the defense said it is an outmoded system. billions of dollars going into the system, just firming as and repair. it was republicans and democrats

fighting for continued funding. then you wonder, why would they do that? it is because the general contractor for that weapon system -- they know what they're doing when it comes to congress -- they put in contractors or subcontractors in 44 different states. yet dianne feinstein, barbara boxer and republican from utah's first congressional district of fighting for continued fighting because they wanted to take the bacon back home so they could brag about it when they run the next time. that is treasonous conduct. when people are looking up on political interest in having the american people, especially when there are so many unmet needs in this country. mitt romney is one of the greatest [indiscernible] he says we're going to star was $60 trillion dead, give everybody a 20% tax cut, and then we're going to do away with

some deductions. having noticed is never identified with those deductions are going to be? the studies say, even if he did away with mortgage deductions and charitable deductions, which is not likely to happen, if you take away all of those deductions, you cannot give more than 4% in tax cuts without adding to our deficit, so there is no way that he could meet anywhere near these promises of balancing the budget. instead, we would more likely see what we saw under reagan and the second bush administration, with record deficits with these republican presidents. in terms of jobs. our employers in this country are at a huge competitive disadvantage with their competitors overseas because we are the only nation in the entire developed world that does not provide insurance coverage for everyone, and we're paying

more than twice the average of the rest of the industrialized world and getting far worse medical outcomes. more than 70% of the american people, the majority of doctors in the health-care debate, said they wanted to see a single payer, medicare for all system. and this president would not even let the proposal see the light of day because he, like the rest of the members in congress with the exception of a handful who were courageous enough for a while to stand up against the corrupting money, they caved in to the for-profit insurance industry and the pharmaceutical companies. and once again, we end up getting shafted, the american people. we cannot afford it. we need to said that message there will be political consequences every time the corporate sector ones -- wins out over the interests of the american people. >> rocky anderson predicts that

concludes our final cuexpanding the debate special. to see the full expanded final debate, go to democracynow.org. tune in to our special election night coverage. our 100-city summer majority tour continues today in palo alto, california. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] democracy now!]