>> this is bbc "newsnight." funding for this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu. new man's own foundation and union bank. >> at union bank our relationship managers use their expertise in global finance to guide you through the business strategies and opportunities of international commerce. we put our extended global network to work for a wide range of companies, from small businesses to major do for you? >> the last dictator of europe has accusations of human rights abuses mount up, we talk to

belarus's famous or infamous leader. >> america wants to democratize us. why not dem ties saudi arabia? >> we speak to conrad black, one the most powerful media -- >> i went through the difficult charge of being falsely convicted and vindicated without losing my mind, becoming irrational, ceasing to be a reasonable person and actually being able to endure a discussion like this without getting up and smashing your face in. >> and the man who jumped from the edge of space at the speed of sound. would you do it? why would anyone? we speak to felix baumgartner about his historic leap of faith. >> hello, he's known to many as europe's last dictator.

alexander lukashenko has dominated belarus for nearly 20 years. his longevity is matched only by the length of the charge sheet against him, including allegations of human rights abuses and even torture. apparently mr. lukashenko thinks talk of democracy is being used as a cover for what he calls plunder by the west. we join the latest press baron on a trip to conduct a rare interview with the man. just a warning -- this film contains flash photography. >> right on the edge of europe, a place that ascends so many european values. we've come to minute ask with the youngest newspaper proprietor. we're on our way to a rare meeting. not many get to see the

corridors of bela russian power. this is an opportunity to put on the spot the man known as europe's last dictator. it's also a challenge for the ambitious son of a russian olivark. president alexander lukashenko has been in power for 18 years. he's been accused of torture and human rights abuses. he has thrown his opponents in prison, banned protests and restricted freedom of expression. the bela russian strong man is banned from traveling to britain and the united states. and western journalists rarely get a chance to hold him to account. the night before the interview preparations are underway in a hotel in central minsk. >> i decided not to focus on

international policy for more as a man. >> he is now in the role of a foreign correspondent for a newspaper his father bought for him. >> i come here as a journalist for the independent newspaper that i will write. he considers himself an authoritarian leader. >> so what does he expect from the belarussian leader? >> i don't have any expectation of how it will go. i think it's the first one that i have done where i really don't know what to expect. but apparently, according to his press secretary, he's up for a fight. >> his own father made his billions after the breakup of the soviet union and taking

privatization of -- which left many in poverty. he never allowed that to happen in belarus. >> the route that your country took was very different from the one that russia took. to my mind russia went the route of plenty of democracy in the 1990's, plenty of democracy, but not very much fairness, and belarus went the opposite way. there was plenty of fairness and not very much democracy. do you think that's a fair assessment?

>> a small way. >> the relative stability of belarus comes at a price. there are no presidential limits here and the 1996 referendum consolidated his power. not a single opposition candidate won a seat in the recent parliament tri-vote. protests have been violently suppressed. but lukasnko says western calls for democracy in belarus are hypocritical.

he rerendum gave you huge powers over this country and that was to a prime minister who apoint the government, half of the senate and apoints some of the judges, the head of the k.g.b. and also the head of the electoral commission. do you think that's too much power concentrated in the hands of one man? >> don't you think it's time to open up, he asks?

s >> the west's real agenda, the president is, is to open up the belarusian economy, which would make it vulnerable to the problems of the rest of europe. she is a jurenlist for russian newspaper. in 2010 irina and her husband, a former presidential candidate, were jailed for organizing process. their son at the time. authoritieseatened to take him away. international pressure got

irina out of jail and under house arrest. >> today she is allowed to leave the house, but not the city. police visit regularly ofte has another trial pending. >> one of ourrnn is country. she can't leave the cub. i can vouch for her personally. i know she's not a criminal. can i ask why she's not even allowed to go and see a doctor in moscow?

>> the president looks surprised. isn't she out of the country already, he turns on his aides. no problems, he says, send her to moscow with evgeny tonight. then minutes later, a memo arrives. it isn't such a bad thing, mr. la schenk jokes. there you go, and don't bother bringing her back. >> late in the day irina gets the news. she's grateful, but she tells him she's also skeptical. >> because president lukashenko's belarus can be a dark, secretive place, where what is said in public doesn't

necessarily crend to reality. many believe -- correspond to reality. many believe that was the case with an explosion that killed eight people in 2011. within 48 hours police arrested two young men. within weeks they were convicted and executed. the bbc "newsnight" investigation into the attack raised the possibility that security services were involved in the bombing and the mother of one of the men said confessions were extracted under torture. >> lukashenko dismissed allegations of torture and said the investigation was always under his personal control and that they agreed with the results. although we are just observers, i asked evgeny about this answer. >> you're the correspondent who covered this trial and your

newspaper talked about what a sh it was. what did the president say to that? >> after the interview the president and evgeny disappeared for a private meeting. at the end the belarusian leader was never challenged. it has taken the son to get access to this place and the interview. the fascinating four-hour long conversation between them reveals a man highs well aware of

are easily manipulatetated and public accountability is scarce, whi is why back at her house irina says she has nothing to celebrate yet. >> and even if president lukashenko keeps his promise, she doesn't want to leave minsk. this is her home. like so many others, irina

wants to find her freedom here in belarus. >> now, he was once one of the most powerful men in britain, as owner of the british newspaper "the daily telegraph" and lots of other newspapers, conrad black was courted by politics and flattered by the stipsters cheat sheet and was accused of finding it very difficult to figure out the difference between his money and his company's money. laura b of croft harbor, night of the holy see and became prisoner 18330424. he didn't like it and he's pretty cross about it. my colleague, jeremy paxman, spoke to him earlier this week. >> do you think prison made you a better person? >> hard to say, jeremy. i'm always suspicious of people who claim to be better people. it certainly was a broadening experience, i can say that.

and it was in, a way, a humbling one, so that's normally good for us. i suppose i would say yes, but i don't want to give your viewers the impression that i'm trumpeting myself as an all together madeover virtuous person. >> not at the charges against you. >> the rubbish and aone can seey're rubbish. >> you are a convicted fracturedster. >> no, i'm -- fraudster. >> no, i'm not. none ohis wotands up. we got rid all accounts and we had the prosecuting stat tute declared unconstitutional. >> when you read theemarks of the judges, for example the judge in delaware, that you are evasive and unreliable -- >> that was not a criminal case and that was completely -- just a minute. that was a completely fallacious judgment that was in fact absolutely defied by the jurors. >> it is the opinion of the judge and you have been convicted. >> would you stop this

bourgeois priggishness? you're a criminal. >> no, i'm not a criminal. do you think the british court would throw 17 counts, racketeering, money laundering, all of t all of it thrown out, everything, the supreme court, or the equivalent in this country denouncing the lower court judges as i had yots, and telling them -- >> you just misunderstood what was legal. >> everything i did was legal. i didn't misunderstand any of it. 99.5% of prosecutions are lesser convicted. the whole system is a corrupt prison system, that's what. let me tell you something. the 5% of the population of the world are americans. 25% of the incarcerated people are, and 50% of the lawyers are. 99.5% conviction rate. six to 12 times as many incarcerated people per capita as brynn, australia, france,

jirm knee or japan. how do you explain that >> i don't think i have to. >> give it a try. before you accrues me of being a criminal, give it a try. >> you're just a gullible fool. you're a friggish, gullible british fool who takes seriously this ghastly american justice system that any sane english person knows is an outrage. >> this fits very oddly with your protestation that you're a roman catholic. don't you do pen tans? >>-day. and i believe in the punishment of crime as well as the confession of wrong dog. >> do you have not think that a man who has been found guilty by due process of law ought to be slightly penitant? >> if it is in fact due process. you see, jeremy, your problem is you have no idea how that system operates. and you should know something about that. >> you're the one who chose to locate his business there. >> i did, yes. >> were you just foolish or what? >> in fact, i'd say that's

slightly overstating it, but i made a mistake. i underestimated the vin at and corruption of the american legal system. i cfess to that. i'm very penitant about it, too. >> what's astonishing is a man who has been through this should show no humidity and no shame. >> of course not. i've been persecuted half to death. i don't have any shame. i'm proud of having been in a u.s. federal prison and survived as well as i did. i had no problems whatsoever, not in t regime and not amongst the fellow residents. let me tell you something -- i am proud of having gone through the terribly difficu process of being falsely charged, falsely convicted and ultimately almost completely h mind, becoming irrational, ceasing to be a penitant and reasonable person and actually being able to endure discussion like this without getting up and smashing your face in, which is what most people would do who have been through what i've been through. >> well, you can go ahead. >> no, i don't believe in

violen. >> do you expect to be able to retain your seat in the house of lords as well? >> well, >> because you're a convicted criminal. >> first of all, there is not a prohibition on a convicted criminal sitting in that house. >> but you don't really believe that a man who's done time in prison should be able to frame the laws of a do you? >> sure. >> you do believe that. >> indeed, if he's either -- if ere's a question about his guilt in the first place. say it was a person convicted in north korea or something. on that theory, nelson mandela couldn't sit. if i were you, i'd be careful of being such a gullible rubber stamp of that american system. >> so a convicted pedophile should be able to sit on the house of laws and make laws o >> that is not what i said. n -- >> you want to judge -- >> if he was a legitimate -- legitely cvicted pedophile i would say there were serious problems about sit

on a legislative body. >> the legal process is about determining whether people are justly convicted or acquitted, isn't it? but you put yourself above that, don't you? >> no, i do not. i put myself in the camp of henry david thoughawho said that in a society who routinely sends innocent people to prison the -- the idea that i would sit there in a public company and steal $285,000, that's what they're down to. they don't even claim it's a theft. they don't even claim it's a fraud. they claim it's an improper reception of money that was voted by the directors and published as a fact. that is what you are waxing so sanctimonious about. >> a very extravagant wife -- >> oh, my god, i'm going to throw up. after seven years -- my first morning back in brynn, am i to be subjected to this? she wasn't extravagant. >> why did you suddenly stop spending so much money, then? >> i didn't start spending so much money.

i was a wealthy man. i spent in accord with my means, and my means went up. >> so if i understand you correctly, you're a man reduced. >> absolutely. and if i may -- and again, i've been a bit forceful with you. i want to diss abuse the idea that i'm always right. i've made mistakes, but not ethical mistakes and certainly not acts of theft. >> now, if one of those rather you than me things, stepping out of a balloon 128,000 feet into the air, felix baumgartner's decision that that was the one thing he to do was in list life was unusual, to say the least. it was watched live on laptops and smartphones by an estimated 8 million people, the biggest life stream in history, but what was the points? when george mallory was asked why anyone would want to climb mount everest, he said "because it is there." felix baumgartner felt

something jeremy paxman spoke to him earlier in the week. >> engage the doorstop, felix. >> what person in their right mind would find themselves alone but for a disembodied voice over 24 miles above the earth? >> slide the seat forward. >> the highest man to balloon flight was just a preamble to becoming the first human being to break the sound barrier without a vehicle. felix baumgartner, fearless felix, has made a career out of pushing the boundaries of human flight. we're told the entire event took place in the name of sc before the long ascrention and specially designed capsule, his body had been fitted with a multitude of sensors his heart rate, blood pressure ander vital l to monitor how the human body copes freeall

deceleration. >> keep your head >> to stop his blood bhis lungs exploding and his body disinterest at the grating he washese a pressurized suit and the whole t is funded by a soft drink manufacturer. >> start the cameras. and i'vot an angel to take care of you. >> fel you want to do ts? you know, i -- i always have bee a vy competitive person, since i was 16 years old i started skydiving and i always wanted to push the limits. that's the reason why i was working on this so hard. >> but it's not like competing at tennis or at pool or a running race. to put yourself on the edge of space miles and miles up, i mean, that's completely different. >> it is, but that's what makes it so unique and challenging, because if you look at my backgrounds as a base jumper, at a certain point i kind of

felt there's on challengeeft because i had done allhe highest so at a certain point i felt kind of lost and not being challenged anymore and working with this has been a total different ballgame. i had to learn everything from scrafment i was not a scientist, i was not properly trained astronaut, so i started everything from zo, and that was the challenge. >> what's it like when you're up there all alone looking down on -- from a tremendous height? what's it like? >> well, when i was standing outside, it was a very calm and quiet moment, very peaceful. the view was totally outstanding and unique, but at the same time you realize everything around you is very hostile. i could not bend there for a long time because as soon as i disconnected m oxygen hose

from the shis system, i brthe out of bottles which are located on my backpack and they provide oxygen for 10 to go off as fast as i can. >> when your body is spinning in the way that we've seen it spinning from the footage, you could black out, couldn't you? anything could happen. >> well, you could black out or mostly you could red out, but we had safety equipment. we do have safety equipment for that kind of fatality. we had a "g-force" meter which is constantly measuring the "g-force" on your body. if it goes over a certain limit, the chute will pull you out of the spin. >> what have we learned from it? >> nobody really thought before that it is possible as a human person to break the speed of sound. so we proved that to the whole world and, again, nobody really thought a safe bailout from

130,000 feet and the re-entry is possible or survivable. we also were testing theext generation's space suit. what dyou want to nxt, then >> breaking the speed ofht [laughter] >> well, we'd like to see that very much. >> no, honestly, i think it's time to move on. inspire the next 40 yearh callg me up and saying, mr.r, i your record. so i would support that guy. in the meantime i'm flying helicopters. i'm also a commercial helicopter pilot and i want to seput mice and work as a firefighter or rescue people from mountains, becau again, that means i'm in there and this is where i belong. >> mr. baumgartner, t you. >> you're welcome. >> and that's all for this week. from all of us, goodbye. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--

>> funding i had may possible by the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu. newman's own foundation and >>t thebal finance to guide you through the business strategies and opportunities of international commerce. we put our extended global network to work for a wide range of companies, from small businesses to major corporations. what can we do for you?

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