which sounds awful, it's the first time in the history of recorded music it sounds worse. it's in every restaurant. it's in every shopping place. you cannot really listen to it. you think should be an experience. you should say, i want to listen to some beethoven. tavis: that notion of your pollution in restaurants. pollution in restaurants. there are certain places i want go to because they play music so loud. >> other places they should not play it at all. even worse is screens. you get on an airplane and there is a screen. you get in a taxicab, and there is a screen. i think it's going to have a tremendous affect on our brain. those those bright colors do something to your brain in a way

that i don't think is going to be desirable. historyhave 100 years of electric light. you would say, we might as well go to sleep. now you have all these things .linking i pollution and your pollution r- eye pollution and ea pollution. >> i am going to add that. you said music ought to be a collective. when you were a kid, -- to be elective. when you were a kid, what did you listen to? >> i had an aunt who went to spain and brought home flamenco records. it was what we called gypsy

music, although they like to be called roma. it was terrific music. he used to bring a lot of records from mexico. she was the edith piaf of mexico. i learned so much from her. i am just copying her. i am not succeeding. -- i wants so clear to jump around. there is so much richness in this memoir. it's so clear that you were bored or inpatient or wanted to do something different. you always sound so many avenues to try to do new things. it takes a lot of courage to do that.

>> music has never been boring for me. it is like that thing where -- did you ever repeat a word over and over again and it stops meaning what you wanted it to mean. starts sounding like white noise. happen. want that to i had too much respect for the music to let that happen, and i kept looking at things i had experience as as a child. you find a mexican song or and a frankrothers song or sinatra song. it was all there. i would go to my grandmother's house, and she would he playing opera. play it on theey radio, but they played it on the piano.

played the same, whether they were professional or not. you sick isn't just for professionals. we should be doing our own dancing and drawing -- music isn't just for professionals. we should be doing our own dancing and drawing. artists are healing themselves. everybody needs their own personal art to heal their problems. yous: when did you know were gifted in this way? >> i thought everybody could sing, because everybody in my house could. everybody i knew saying. -- sant. they had -- sang. they had children's choirs. my brother was a featured soloist. he had agreed voice.

i just thought everybody did it. know youen did you were gifted enough to do it professionally? said, i want to be a singer. i didn't the guy was going to get to be famous or a star. i thought i was going to get to sing in a department store. i didn't encourage -- occurred to me to challenge it. it's so hard to do it professionally. don't plan on it. an icon like you says, don't plan on it, tell me .ore what you mean by that >> there is such a tiny percentage that end up doing it, and it's not just because they are the best ones. there are a lot of great singers who don't. i saw a documentary with a lot

of girls i worked with. trying to determine what separates the ability to be a lead singer from a background singer. she was so beautiful. she was tall. she looked like a queen. she had beautiful cheekbones. she was fabulous. something happened that resonates with the public. i cannot sing half as well as claudia. hats off to her. things happen for me. tavis: have you felt guilty about it at some of your background singers didn't quite -- about it. feel guilty anybody that gets their did it. fingers i may not like there to sensibility, -- a lot

of singers i may not like their sensibility, but people don't get there without talent. tavis: there are a lot of people who don't become linda ronstadt. >> story is important. yourtory has to resonate with the public. personal story? >> if you don't have story, you have to be able to go, you have to listen to this. going toto go, i am die if i don't get to tell this story. it has to be the first thing out of you. the weird thing that turns on you, once it gets to the listeners ears, it it should be the listeners story. how does the artist and power the listener to make that transition from it being about your story you want them to hear to embracing it as their own?

>> if they get a slap in the face, a shock of recognition -- i have been through this before, that's when you succeed. that's when you do your job. guy like mick jagger, who is not as good a dancer as tina turner, isn't as good a singer as someone like claudia, isn't as great a writer as paul simon -- he is greater than the sum of his parts. he's a great performer. there's no way you can ignore him on stage. it would be that much more because his tory resonated, and he was able to get it out there so urgently you just loved it. you don't care. you make this so easy for me.

belafonte is a friend of mine and has been on this show so many times. he has a book out, has written a "sing your song." i thought about him when you said you have to tell your story. belafonte said you have to get the world to sing your song. story you havehe been trying to tell us, the song you have been trying to get us ?o sing throughout your career >> it is everything from your heart to, i went to the store and they did not have what i wanted. it really can be completely mundane. it just depends on the intensity of your feeling.

it changes every day. i would see a movie. i would be describing the story, but my goal would be to make someone else make their own movie. you talk about jagger. he is greater than the sum of his parts. what you were saying. i totally agree. he's not great at any one of those things, but you cannot deny him on stage. his energy is off the charts. for me and terms of your performance on stage. >> i'm terrible on stage. i just look at my feet. i was a nervous wreck all the time. i think everyone has that fear. >> the stage scared you? >> it scared me half to death.

>> i love to rehearse. there, and i would just be looking at my feet. it was a long time before i even said anything on stage, and i made such a faux pas. tavis: tell me. you have got to tell me. >> you want to hear it? i haven't told anyone. don't tell anyone. in upstatesome place new york, and i knew a psychiatrist who is an incredible researcher, and i said, i am going to upstate new york, and he said, there is a thatrate of. he was saying as a researcher, so i get on upstate new went, york. i understand there is a lot of.

i didn't say it to be mean. the audience didn't like me. just get nervous, and anything comes out of your mouth. it was a factoid i knew. it's what i knew. tavis: that's a great story. like nobody from upstate new york is going to any of my books. you survived it. you kept selling records. >> i was horrified at myself. it is almost like you get shocked out of your body. your body is carrying on as if you are still in it. you are doing the best you can. isis: the flipside of that

going to see a show, and the artist won't shut up. >> i like it when they are really on their game. i was in the audience when michael jackson came out and first did the moonwalk. beatleswent to the concerts to scream. i never screamed that anybody's show. i was on my feet, and we were shrieking our guts out. we would have gone anywhere with him. it was a moment we connected. that's why he was the greatest pop star of any time. troubled guy, but whatever that was it was really powerful. i would have followed him to help. is that your sense that he was the greatest pop star of all time? >> i think so.

he was one of the greatest singers ever, but when he got up there the way he could dance, he was just brilliant. tavis: you have been blessed to work with some of the great songwriters. talk to me about we recall content. how important has it been to you over this artistic journey? >> i think of the united states culture, it iso the popular song, and the zenith period that started in the 1920's and went into the 1950's, and it was the great american standard song. the reason was migration. there were lots of labors of migration. there was forced migration from africa. that was mixed with the french, creole society in new orleans, because everybody was sent to europe to be educated, and they came back with all sorts of

orchestral stuff, and there was a lot of complaining about how badly everybody was treated. they put it into a sophisticated context. in the in between was irish and mexican and italian and polish and all these people yearning. are the peopler who migrated from central europe , the jews who came fleeing terrible persecution. you have the bottom, and you have persecution on the top that comes from europe. sophisticated based on the orchestra, and you can take --to give you a different example, that midler has a song that

works on different levels. it is sexy, and you get the joke. those classic american standards work the same way. you can get it on sophisticated levels. you can get it on my heart is broken level. you can get it on i miss my home. hearts why it breaks my that we don't have immigration reform, because the people who migrate here and want to work and are very capable because they have survived the trip here, they are great at adversity, which is the people you want in the workforce -- are being shut out. they are not allowed to give their best. this is a country of immigrants. tavis: one thing i love about you is you have been as courageous and brilliant at your own interpretation of the american songbook as you have been speaking your own truths about the issues you think the

society needs to wrestle with. how have you dealt with that? have you paid a consequence? >> i think if you do what is in your heart -- joseph campbell says you have to follow your bliss. if you do, doors open or you did not even know there were doors. they bear a tremendous about debt -- tremendous amount of reinterpreting. thought, what do i have to add? i had my own little story. there is such a great vehicle. everybody who takes it on gets to do so in such a way. clooney would make a song you hear a million times, and i never thought about that before.

but i never listen to it in quite that way. there is always a chance you might be able to unlock the secret of that song and let it bloom so they will get what it's about. did i answer your question? it's impossible to talk about issues without talking about your relationship with jerry brown. what do you make that life brings him back to the office? >> he has a lot of experience. that's a problem. bush junior -- here is a guy running the country and does not know what he is oohing. it was a catastrophe. jerry has had a lot of experience. tavis: he is doing ok? >> i think he is doing a great job. he started with the state that is a cropped. . always say cup -- is bankrupt

i always say, spend more money. jerry is a tight wad. the government has to spend money during a recession, because they're spending is our earning. thank you, paul krugman. tavis: what is interesting one of the consequences you sfered from dating jerry brown. remember the earthquake? >> i grew up in the desert where the first thing you learned is you do not build a house on the floodplain, and that beach is a floodplain. the beat is not a lasting thing. is ocean has -- the beach not a lasting thing. the ocean has a mind of its own. here we were in malibu, bad idea. there was one year of storms. the ocean decides to knock off a room in my house. it ate a room in my house and

did a lot of damage to houses along there. the residents wanted help from the government because their houses were destroyed. gary said, i cannot do that because my girlfriend lives there, and if i help her they will say, i am giving her special favors. they were ready to come with pitchforks and burned the place down because he was not helping. beacht up and down the and talk to the residence and figured out what was going on. my feeling is the beaches for the public. miles back a couple nobody should be able to build anything. it causes erosion. story to a takes the different level. he did not want to be accused of doing favors for his girlfriend, linda ronstadt, even though her house was falling into the ocean.

stay right there. we are going to say goodbye for now, but tomorrow night we will have are two of our conversation with linda ronstadt. until then, thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley.join me next time for the conclusion of our conversation with linda ronstadt. that's next time. we will see you then. ♪ ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.

barry kibrick: today on "between the lines," the secret to a happier life with dr. john izzo. i'm barry kibrick. john was a past guest on "between the lines" with his best-seller "second innocence." now with his latest book, "the five secrets you must discover before you die," he takes us on a heartwarming and profound

journey of life in the search for meaning and happiness. linda ellerbee: i'm a writer today because i was a reader when i was 11 years old, and it was... deepak chopra: you do not need to prove your state of happiness to anybody. warren christopher: most of these speeches were as much as a month in preparation. man: the characters, the heroes in this book are seekers of truth in a story that involves a lot of corruption. man: i get a chance to really talk about what's real, and this is the purpose for me. barry: john, welcome back to the show. it is a pleasure to have you again. thank you so much for joining us. john izzo: thank you, it's great to be here. barry: oh, it's my pleasure. listen, i'm going to begin--you know, and you've got "the five secrets you must discover before you die." i have to begin with this. and it's your words, but it is the search for what really matters. that's what you were really looking for. and as you even say in the book, they're not so much secrets as much as

they are things we need to not just know, but take into our life. john: exactly. and i think that's what we're all searching for, isn't it? in one way or another, we want to know, what is it really about? what is it i'm supposed to do while i'm a human being, while i'm here? and what we don't want most of all is to come to the end and feel we missed it. and i--and again, that's really what the book is about. barry: you know, i never really inquire about why a person writes something, 'cause it doesn't really matter that much to me, nor does it matter how they wrote it, but this time a little bit of how you wrote it is important because i want the viewers to know how you gleaned this information because i think it is special and it's relevant. john: well, so many books, as you know, barry, have been written on the meaning of life and the purpose of life and how we find meaning and happiness while we're here. but i really believed that if you wanted to really know the secrets, find someone who had lived a happy life and found it and ask them

what they learned. and so about two years ago, i started asking people all over the united states and canada to tell me the one person they knew who had lived a long life and found true happiness and had something to teach us. and so after getting a thousand suggestions, i wound up interviewing almost 250 people from 60 to 106, from a town barber in iowa to native chiefs, from holocaust survivors to ceos, poets, and truck drivers, all of whom someone else had said was the one person who had found whatever it is. and so that's what i did. i spent two years talking to these people about their lives to see what i could learn. barry: now, it's funny because if there was any point of contention i had--i want to share it with you. and yet i can't really say it was a point. but listen to how it plays out. and that was this. "could it be that toward"--this is what you write. "could it be that toward the end of life we discover things that, you know, if we could have only known sooner?"

and then, later on, you tell us about the difference between knowledge and wisdom, something you even heard me talking about before. and here was the one part i wanted to--and i know that you agree with me on one level, and that is, it oftentimes does take us this long to learn. in other words, because, as you say, these aren't really secrets, i still knew these things years ago, but only as i age am i able to start living them, bringing them into my life, even though i know you wrote this with the hopes that maybe people can get it a little sooner. and i believe they could a little sooner. but there is something about time and age. john: well, there is. and i think there's an octave also to each stage of our life, sort of a part of the score, if you will, we're to be playing in, you know. so when you're young, the octave is to find yourself and to test yourself in the world. when you're older, the octave is to give back to