presidency, it's transforming this nation of about 17 million, very densly populated. agriculture based, right? very rural population, rural country, pover, right? big issues that we're dealing with. a lot of upside as we say here to transform what has been a nation that's been struggling into something more in the modern world. >> no -- >> talk about how you've done that. >> i always thought -- there's so many things that i could do the moment i got into office. if i became cabinet minister, this is what i would do. now, finally, if i only can become president, i would transform ma lewi. i would -- malawi. i would transform my community. i will change -- i will assure that corruption is rooted out. i will assure the child is protected and has an opportunity to go to school. i will assure that our villages are transformed and that families -- i've always been looking at what is it that i can

do to change the situation for the better. but looking at the past one year, getting into office as vice president, i got into office when there was no -- the colony had been mismigged. -- misminged. there was no -- miss manged. this was no fuel. people were sleeping under the nilling stations. cashes for cash crops were low. the relationship with our neighbors was bad. our daughters had you canned away. britain in particular because of the president's decision to buy a plane for himself, by the way i have sold. [laughter] >> that's a good first step. yeah. so you inherited a very difficult situation, but also that you could -- it -- there's no place to go but up. >> yes. exactly. so i mean, we had gone as low as we could, right to the bottom, and so the only other option was to go up. but i must say that i'm

pleasantly surprised myself at how well we have done in a year. it was a lot of work, it meant >> but also it meant being all inclusive and bringing everybody on board. and making them understand that this was not a problem for -- this was a problem for the whole nation. the whole nation needed to change how they do things. >> yeah. >> and we must all be held accountable and transparent and we all be more inclusive in whatever we want to do. >> this is a democrat government. the version of democracy that we understand here is a little bit different than the version of democracy over there. the principles are the same but the way it ends up in practice is a little harder. how hard is it for you as a democratic -- leader of a democratic nation to really win support, persuade people -- how do you navigate that whole political system? i think it must be a real challenge, especially what given -- given what came before. >> yeah, it's extremely difficult, especially in countries of africa, where

poverty is really deep rooted. >> right. >> because that -- because money also plays a role. >> right. >> and then systems sometimes are not as strong. >> temptation -- >> the temptation to go off track is high. so you need to be very, very strong indeed. and i just thank god that i have been very fortunate. that i have stayed the course. because i don't think that right now we even have a choice but to stay the course. right now i have told everybody, it's -- that we had to make very unpopular decisions. we had to ensure that we perhaps devalue -- perhaps control corruption, make sure that people are held accountable for what they do. have very transparent systems. >> yeah. >> and also observe human rights. all these are not very easy to do in a -- >> in ideal circumstances it's not easy, but especially --

>> especially in a place like ours. but i must thank god that we have managed for a year. all ma lawians -- ma lawians have decided. i have been working with people at grassroots all my adult life, before i became president. and in that period, i gained the respect and trust of ma lawians. >> they know you. >> i always say it's a love affair. you must fall in love with the people and the people must fall in love with you. by the time i game president, i had acheered all this. i had a whole nation behind me. so when i said, let's go through this difficult patch together, we need to clean up the economy, we need to correct the situation, but it's going to be hard. they listened. >> they listened because they knew -- >> they knew -- they have to trust you. >> right. you alluded to the fact that other african nations, and not just african nations, these kinds of problems will often result in corruption. that's one possible result or

ethnic tribal religious warfare, ma lawns on -- ma law wans -- ma lawians on ma lawians. >> as i was growing up, the line was very clear. you either was it's the pa troy moanial system of marriage or a southerner, where it was a mat trilineal system of marriage. in my particular case, we were married from those two different sides of tradition. that's where my husband comes from. but we've been very fortunate in malawi that for the past 50 years, we have allowed people to live together. we have allowed the different tribes to intermarry and now what we have in the end is one nation. >> right. the cohesion. >> yeah, the cohesion. it's not now as distinct that

you either come from the north or the south. >> interesting. >> i was married in the north, i came from the south, and if the past if you went looking for a job, sotimes they would say which tribe t do you come from. now, if they ask my daughter, she doesn't know. sky, it's not an issue. >> it's not an issue anymore. it's happening again and again. i thank god that ma lawns have gone -- mau lawians have gone beyond that. we have gone beyond that now. >> physically, let's orient people. malawi is in the southern part of africa. as i understand -- >> left-and mozambique, tanzania, and zambia. >> is that part of the continue neltively stable politically in terms of the unrest that happens elsewhere? is that's a relatively stable part of the continent? >> yet, the sadic region has always been viewed as the most

peaceful and the most stable. but we have problems here and there. -- is part of of saddic. and mad as gas car is part of sadic and the sadic organization in the south, i am chairing that organization now of 14 nations. so what we do, as chair, is at the moment you begin to suspect that there might be unrest in country x, we rush in. we rush in and intervene. >> yeah. of course here in the states, what we hear about in africa is only the things that go wrong. but i guess maybe no news is good news. right, if you don't hear about places, it's probably -- >> but there's good leadership there. some of us are there,eah. good leadership. >> right. >> and the people who are just not thinking about self but thinking of others. there's a whole crop of new leaders emerging in africa that are putting people first, and not themselves. >> yeah. very interesting. so let's talk about your history. you were an activist before you got into government on behalf of many things, but principally on

behalf of human rights and really on behalf of women's rights. >> women. >> you are said to be the most powerful black woman outside of the united states. you know, you have emerged as really an extraordinarily significant figure, not just in terms of race, but gender. and you have advocated so much on behalf of younger women as they come ups, as you said, making certain that women have opportunities and get education. can you talk about how that issue became important to you and how in the culture of the country you were able to make people understand the importance of women's rights and women's issues. >> this -- i have been very, very fortunate that every step of the way in my life, something has happened that woke me up. i was 14 years old, before that, in africa, a first-borne child is brought up by a grandmother. especially in my tribe. so when i was born, my father was asked by my grandmother to hand me over. lierally. and my father said no, i will

bring up my daughter. so in that side, they compromised. that every weekend i would go home. and so every friday they gave me money are school. we lived 15 kilometers away and i would go home. and i had a very good friend in the village and she'd be waiting by the roadside for me and she'd tell me about the village. she told me all about village life and i would tell her what was happening in town, because my father was a policeman. >> right. >> she was very bright. she went to the village school, i went to the school. and we go to the end of primary school. she was selected one of the best girls' schools. i was selected to the other. we went one term, second term i look for krista, i couldn't find her. and they told me she had dropped out. and the family couldn't raise the six pounds that she required to go to school. and i remember being very, very angry about how i was so helpless, i couldn't see my friend from school. i am president now. she's where i left her with seven children. she got married at 15 because she didn't have a choice.

>> she had no other choice. >> and i made up my mind at that age that i would grow up one day saying that many girls are supposed to go to school. so now i send 3,000 girls to school because i feel that's what i can do for chrissy. what i couldn't do then. and i'm sending her children to university now so that they don't -- >> you're sending her children to university? >> yes, so they don't find themselves in that situation. when i was age 33, i was having my fourth born child. i went into hospital and suffered what they call postpartum hemorrhage. i was going to die. but my husband had a friend who was a gynecologist. and the reason why i'm sitting here is because i was in the hands of a specialist. and i woke up again to the whole question of why must women die giving life. and i discovered that at that point that 121,200 women were dying giving birth. and i decided i was going to spend my life sending girls to school because of chrissy and i was going to fight that this unnecessarily death must stop.

from 1,200 through the work that i've been able to champion, we are now at 460 women dying. >> you have cut it by two-thirds. >> we've cut it by two-thirds. >> wow, amazing. pgh [applause]. >> so this is as -- >> so for me, it's been my life. >> it's personal. >> it's personal and i get permanently involved. my husband has told me please slow down. when am i going to stop. >> house that working? he's not very successful. >> no, he's not. >> i can already tell. no one gets to tell you what to do! let me ask you, madam president, about the health -- generally speaking, the health -- health of ma lawians. -- ma lawians. low life expectancy, high infant mortality rates, high insdense of him -- hiv/aids. what do you do about that? >> i'm a person that's always optimistic and i don't like to be bogged down by statistics. and what i do is look at the progress i'm making and then revoice and celebrate that

progress. >> yes. >> when we started out, as i said, 1,200 women were dying giving birth. now we're at 460. 460 is not acceptable, but we are coming from 1,200. >> it's better. >> so u yeah, equally life expectancy, hi hiv/aids, we havo look at the progress that we're making. and i'm pleased to say that we are -- we're doing everything possible. we are looking at the traditional ways of fighting even including maternal mortality. i brought on this chief a traditional chief because that's how i have approached it. i have engaged everybody, including local leadership, to say, this is unnecessarily death, it is you who can stop it. and if you tell everybody in your village to deliver at a health clinic, you can stop this unnecessary death. in villages where chiefs have listened to me and done that, no woman has died in the last three years. so we know that it can be done. but it's a huge task.

>> well, part of it i think what you're saying, madam president, is that it's not the government that owns this problem. it's the people. >> it's everybody. >> it's the bottom up problem. >> it's the bottom up. >> not the top down. >> exactly. everybody must get involved. and chiefs can decide, every girl child shall go to school. what i do as a leader, it's political will that matters. and it starts with me, in my country. so when every we've says every woman shall deliver at the clinic, it causes congestion at the clinic. it's my responsibility to make sure that the clinic has the capacity to handle now the huge traffic. >> having changed the behavior -- >> having changed -- yeah, therefore we must create -- >> provide opportunity, right. let me ask you and the population a it's going to change. it's about 17 million, plus or minus. and i understand it's going triple in the next 40 or so years. very dense population as it is

relative to the size of the country. triple the population. will the natural resources that you need for a population that size be adequate to the aspirations you have for the country? >> we must stop. we must stop that population growth. >> how do you do submit yeah, yeah. it's up here. it's related to poverty. >> it's up here. >> yes, it's up here. >> okay. it's related to poverty. it's not only about handing out family planning devices. it's about changing the whole situation of the rural masses. 85% of ma lawians are we'll-based and most of them are looked up in -- locked up in poverty. 50%. >> this is one of the least developed nations in africa, right? >> yeah. but when you go out in the villages and you find a family with an unlimited number of children and you ask them, why don't you stop having more children, they'll look back at you and say you have wealth. you have cars. i don't have. this is my wealth. so the moment -- >> this is my wealth. >> yeah, the children. as many as possible, because

that's -- >> so the children could work -- >> and it's free of charge. you can keep having them and they are yours. so that's why i said, it's up here. the moment you provide an input and opportunities that are afford, the moment they begin to make an income in that household, the first thing they stop to do is to have children. see it is about tackling population and it's about tackling poverty as well. the girls are getting married very early and having children early. ending up dying or with serious complications because they are having babies early. when you go to check, it's because they're not going to secondary school because it's not free. and it's about income. if a family has income, the children, all the girls and boys, will go to school. >> in some ways if you solve the problem of education, then the other problems get solved. >> no, no, you have to problem this -- solve this problem of poverty. >> pover which then allows for

education. >> yes and family plane and education and food security. it's all about income. >> you have quite a task ahead of you. >> yes, yeah, but i know how to do. >> well, confidence is the first step! madam president, we just have a few minutes left. let me ask you about the west. you have a great relationship with nations of the west. they've supported you. you've asked for their support. i wonder what the perception of our country, the united states is in in your country now or in your region of the world? we've heard a lot about how the view of the united states is declining in the world. can you speak to how you all view the united states from in your perspective there? >> you want me to be honest? >> i want you to be honest. >> okay, yeah, yeah. yeah. the view of africa is that they're -- they could do more. >> could do more. yeah, what could we do? >> well, be there when we need you. >> is your sense that we only

come when there's a crisis? >> no, no, the sense is that you come with your own conditions, not ours. >> our own conditions. our own agenda, maybe. >> right. >> what are the -- pgh [applause]. >> tell me what conditions that we put on our help that you would like to see us make go away. >> what -- what has happened -- >> i wish we had an hour to talk about this, actually. >> no, but what happens is that other countries will come. i have said this even at the -- level, that we look for friends to come to africa. and respect us that we know what to do. >> right. >> and know that we have articulated the issues that we want to change. we know how to get from point a to point b and all we are looking for are partners. don't come and tell us what to do and how to do it. >> don't set the agenda. >> don't set the agenda and don't come and dictate. because the tragedy is that you come and you waste resources because you want to do it yourselves and you don't want to involve us, and we step back. and 20 years you've wasted the resources and you say, oh, look

at them. africans, we've been trying to help, and they don't change. we want people to come and respect us and know that we can stand side by side as partners. that we may be poor, but we're not stupid. [applause]. >> so increasingly, what is happening is that countries are looking for such partners, such friends. if the u.s. feels that we aren't doing it right, fine, but they mustles know that africa or the developing world will have choices. >> yeah. are there 'other countries doing this better than the united states? >> well, in terms of providing support to developing countries, the u.s. refuses to give budgeted support. and other countries do. >> wow. may have more to do with us than you, right. >> if you ask you to pep me buy

maize -- help me buy maize, and that's what i eat, and you decide no, i'm not going to give you money. i'm going to give you bit kist. and i've never eaten biscuits in my life. then i'll go to somebody who about help me by maize. >> well, they're going to be a better partner by -- >> pri providing what i need. >> providing what you need, not what we say you need. >> no, don't tell me to drink cooking oil because that's all i can give you. and don't go and get maze from anywhere else. because growing up, i never seen my grandmother use cooking oil. >> well, it's not understanding and respecting differences. so that's who that is. in the last second we have here, how much longer lu be at this? you said you've been presidency for more than a year. >> i didn't set tout to become president. >> so you didn't have a plan for how long to do it. >> yes, i wanted to come and save my people. i started when i was 28. i didn't know i was there.

so my intention is to save the people of ma das lawi -- malawi. >> however long it takes. >> and i make unpopular decision as long as i thing they are best for my country. >> right. >> a police will not do that. a police will calculate and see whether it is the right decision to make now. whether it suits the people or not n. my case, i'll go the opposite direction. i had 24 months when i decided to do the reforms that we've just crimplemented. any sensible police would not do ido -- politics would would -- politician would not do that. it means it will gos me the elections, that's fine. >> so be it. >> so be it, yeah. >> if you have any an any interest in coming an unking he? -- and running here? sounds like we might be able to use you. >> pgh [applause]. >> well, madam president, it's again an honor to talk to you. >> thanthank you. >> and it's fascinating to hear

all of the work you are doing on behalf of your people. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> thank you for spending time with us, madam president. thank you so much. pgh [applause]. >> we'd love to have you join us in the studio to find invitations to interviews, an archive of past episodes. >> i want us to take the time to ensure that we put in place a mining code that protects malawianians. i want them to look back in 20 years and say we were rich, but we benefited this way. >> funding is provided in part by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and from the texas board of legal specialization, board certified attorneys in your community. experienced, respected, and tested. also, by hilco partners.

texas government affairs subject yancy, and by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you.

captioned by thenational captioning institute-- www.ncicap.org-- >> hello, i'm llewellyn king, the host of "white house

chronicle," which is coming right up. first, a few thoughts of my own. for anme pro bono work awful disease called chronic fatigue syndrome, also known as my object in several myelitis. it is incurable. there is a lot of research done on it, and there is not a lot of pressure on the federal government to up the research or the research priority. has no lobbyat, it in washington. many diseases do. when we think about lobbies, we think about big money -- the oil industry, the electric industry, major industries contribute in money to members of congress to get what they want. but there is another kind of lobby, which is what i call proximity lobbying, simply being

in the nations capital. people you meet, conversations and restaurants, that conversation after church which might lead to some favorable decision. invaluableed but human contact, simply having a representative in washington makes possible. you cannot do it without, and if you are out there in this great land and you don't have someone in washington, chances are that your voice is not heard in the agencies or in the congress. it is a sad thing, but you need someone in washington, somebody that people know, that people can see and speak to, who can speak as well. washington, our guests for this program in washington, we stay at the american guesthouse, which is a very comfortable institution, has all the amenities of a hotel

and some of the advantages of a private home. check it out if you are coming to town. it is a very desirable place to be in an excellent location. i have some very talented people i want to introduce to you after the titles, and they will be with you shortly. >> "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboration with whut, howard university television. and now, your cohosts for the program, nationally syndicated columnist llewellyn king, and your cohost, linda gasparello. >> i promised you some special people and here they are. i'm glad to welcome them to the table. david rennie is the bureau chief of "the economist" newspaper.

it describes itself as a newspaper, but to all the rest of the world it is a magazine. welcome, david. very nice to see you. why does it call itself a newspaper? >> it is tradition. like not having bylines. we don't use our names. it is less fluffy than a lot of magazines out there. all right, "crunchier" is an interesting description in journalism. and it was, i asked not on the shelves, and they pointed to the cash register. it was right by the cash register. the same experience in singapore. "the economist" has an amazing how are you doing in italy? you had your problems there. >> we won our court case. >>