have allowed the money to overtake washington, d.c. >> yep. >> i think the biggest lobbyists is all the technology companies. the strongest lobbyists in washington, d.c. it's amazing how they've overtaken washington. and so -- >> but not surprising, right? >> but we need to be able to make government smaller in washington, allow states and local governments to really function much better. i believe in that. and the government has never been reshaped since franklin dell know roosevelt. we have moved the power away from the executive into the legislative body. and no legislative body runs government on a daley basis. there has to be a sharing of a responsibility, what the responsibilities are. and that's why you diminish the power of the executive office. >> and why we see so much dysfunction and gridlock. >> right. and that's what's happening. the board of directors cannot run a company everyday. it's impossible. >> in the case of chicago, you've been out for two

years and rob i am moon wall, the former chief of staff, a famous figure in his own right and from a dine nasty in his own respect, is now your successor. have you had a hard time keeping your hands off? and i don't mean doing his job for him, but more social security a public opinion about the success or failure -- >> no. once i left office -- i'm known recall for many years. i said i love the city. i'm just a citizen. i don't comment, i don't appear with him at any event, with the exception of my wife who died of cancer, we have a huge cancer drive on her behalf. and after school matters that she founded for children of chicago. and my son who died of spina bifida, three or four issues. it's the only time i appear publicly. if he's at an event i will not go. >> you give him room to be mayor. >> i don't go to any event he's at and i respect the office. >> surely he asked you for your advice. anybody who enters a position that's been occupied by somebody who had it for a long time wants to

take advantage of the experience and knowledge of that person. you were the longest serving mayor, longer serving than your dad by a year as mayor. he must want to tap into some of that daley magic. what kind of magic did you give him about the best approach to this job? >> don't underestimate the citizens. i worked every saturday for one reason because people work during the week and where do you meet your citizens? saturdays. fighting gangs, guns and drugs, cleanup drive, dedicating a library, park, little league, soccer. you meet the the best people on saturday. they didn't agree with me, but you're out there listening to them and they're giving comment to you or i'm going to email you or i'm going to give you a letter, mayor. and to me that's what government is all about. it's not about posters. we're becoming government officials by pollters. they tell you what to wear, what to do, what to say, when to go to these events. you have to feel a city. you have to feel that you

have passion and commitment. >> but i think the idea of connecting to your constituents on a day when they're free to be connected -- >> that's the big day. >> that saturday, being the mayor of saturday. >> to me that is the key about being mayor. and you have to enjoy people. and that doesn't mean they're going to agree with you. >> you have to enjoy people. >> you better enjoy people. in the long run they're all committed to making your city the city that you represent a better city. >> so you got in in '89, george hw bush had just been elected president. you left in 2011 when barack obama was president. over time the country changed, politics changed, the world changed. tell me what was different about being mayor of chicago on the day you arrived and on the day that you departed. >> well, i think the difference is how government -- washington was changing. and how we looked at the world unfortunately over a period of time. the world is not an asset. the world is a liability to america.

it's always been an asset. the rest of the world looks at it as an asset. because 9-11 changed america's conscious about the world that we can even feel today, the loss of life and just what happened. >> loss of privacy. >> right. >> loss of confidence and security. >> right. we lost confidence in the world. and i think that is a major problem. i do a lot of work in russia, china, all over, but i'm telling you the rest of the world is envious of us. they would love to be here. they don't hate us. they're not all terrorists. and so we should look at the world as an asset. diplomacy is the most important aspect of america. >> so you're saying, mr. mayor, we look at the world as a liability when we ought to look at the world as an asset. >> it is a mindset. diplomacy is the key of america. not just those in government, but everyday people travel, young people -- i lectured at the university of chicago, a great class of graduate and undergraduate students and to me the greatest asset we have is our younger people.

i want to make sure you know that this generation will do things and we should really promote them in business and environmental business, and business practices. we should become the leaders of improving the world, our quality of life, regardless of what country it is. i think that's how we have to view the world. i deal with mayors all over the world. they don't get involved in all these international issues and global issues. mayors and governors are working together for import, export policies, quality of life issues, education, howing, environment. that's all they talk about. and so many times our national governments are caught up in these side issues that they're never ever -- never going to agree upon anything. they're still stuck in the past. >> so the biggest change from '89 to 2011 as i understand it is the world changed and that gave your perspective as mayor different cast. >> completely different. the first time we ever had every mayor of the united states, think of that, in the year year 2000 we had mayors from all of south america, we had mayors from

southeast asia, europe, russia, coming to chicago for conferences. >> so that's kind of a large -- big picture idea. >> yeah. >> how about as a smaller picture. did chicago really change over those 22 years? >> sure, it has to. if it doesn't change then you live in the past. >> so what ways did you see the city you led change over the years? >> it's realistic. we had more immigrants in from the middle east. more immigrants in from asia. more immigrants of course historically, more guatamalans. we have the second largest mexican population. very proud of. and of course we have many from guatemala. so it became -- it always was an immigrant city. we always respected immigrants. >> but more so in those 22 years. >> in 22 years. and also people changed. technology changed everyone. >> i want to ask you about that. you really straddled in your merrillty the technological revolution. when you came in as mayor in '89, you could run the city the way that you always ran

it, the way your dad ran it, largely under cover of darkness. the transparency on the issue workings of government is not what it is today. today you have mayors communicating directly with their constituents, corey booker promising on twitter to rescue babies from burning buildings. >> i don't do that. i like to meet people. >> but the obligations, though, mr. mayor, the obligations of local government are ever more so connected to individual constituents because the technological revolution has made it to so that everybody now knows their mayor, knows their o government. >> sure, but the key is always transparency, constantly out there looking at issues, making sure that you're hearing from the people. but i'd rather meet somebody. i don't care what they tell me. i can promise people on twitter everything else and you can't do it. and i would rather get out there and really feel that the people are important. >> more old-fashioned retail politics. >> it's not old-fashioned. it's people to people. i want to meet people.

today no one ever talks to one another. twitter, that's all they do everyday. and they're all alwaysing at something else. >> you can put yourself in a pod and never interact with anyone. >> exactly. and i think it's good for everyone, but for my viewpoint you have to come up with a decision and feel what many people want. and the more that participate, the better off we are. we isolated people on tv and now on technology, more so individually. they're more isolated from one another. >> let's talk about issues that you grappled with as mayor. and i would observe you grappled with the -- a head of a lot of other people who are talking about them today. you were kind of the leading indicator and when the country has gone on a couple of different issues. guns first. back before it was cool for mayors to be talking about getting guns out of cities, you were one of the earlier and stronger advocates among the mayors in the big cities for dealing with the gun problem. can you talk about how you got to that place and why

you thought politically it was the right thing to do? >> well, my father in the 1930's put in -- a bill in banning guns in illinois. >> goes back a long way. >> goes back a long way. and when you think of the '60s when john f kennedy was killed, assassinated and martin luther king and bobby kennedy, you would think it would raise our conscious about guns and there would be common sense about gun laws. but we have moved away from that and guns have become more of an issue in regards to individual rights as compared to what is happening in washington. >> people say the second amendment should protect all of us and our rights to have guns. >> that's one thing the world looks at, is why are we in love with guns and violence. so you have to have common sense gun laws. but i think there's -- it's a much more different issue than 60's and 70's now.

it's an issue that each one of us people feel that they have that right because they don't feel like washington, the federal government is protecting them. i think that's what it is. and i think it goes much deeper now. you have the recall of two senators in colorado. >> as we sit here this week over this issue. >> over this issue that were recalled. so it's a completely different issue. and i think we have to look at it differently because we're not really affecting legislative or executive changes. >> despite the fact that the public by overwhelming numbers according to all the polling is in support of tighter restrictions on high capacity magazines, on assault weapons and especially they want more comprehensive background checks. and yet congress has not listened -- as you might have listened in congress chicago, congress has not listened. >> congress passed the concealed weapons bill, illinois did. so it's not just in the

south or southwest. >> it's all over the country. >> all over the country. >> if you know, chicago is often held up as one of the cities where we have to do something about gun violence. >> i found out that the gun lobbyists, the gun industry is one of the strongest industries in the country. >> no matter what you hear about the nra not being powerful. >> they're powerful because they're gun industry. the gun industry is a global industry, guns. so we export a lot of guns outside the united states. mexico can tell you that. but it's -- i think it's a problem that's gone too far. we should really sit down and really discuss it, try to get some common sense legislation out in order to protect our children. >> we were also, mr. mayor, on another subject that's now very much in vogue, you were a leading advocate for this back before people were talking about it. you advocated for benefits for the domestic partners of gay an lesbian and city workers and you've also been

an advocate for same sex marriage. >> yes. >> may i say generationally you're really ahead of your time. people of your generation in politics have not been as quick and were as quick as you were in office to embrace these issues. it's much cooler to do it now, but it was not as cool when you did it and i was wondering why were you so ahead of the pack on those issues? >> well, i have friends that belong to the community, personal friends. i know sons and daughters of family members, people i know all over the metropolitan area, all over the country. i know doctors and lawyers and educators, wonderful people that work for me, they have adopted children, have had children, they're partnerships. these are great citizens. and i tell people, when they would come up to me and say, you're for (indiscernible) community, you're for marriage. >> and i say do you know so and so, your friend? i guess you don't like their son or daughter. and they look at me, son or daughter. these wonderful, wonderful people. i remember i made it right before the democratic

convention in boston and the democratic party got very upset with me because i went too far. [laughter] this is right before boston. it's interesting. i said this is not a plot. they just asked me on question that o that. i said i'm for gay marriage. i think it's a good thing for society. and now it's -- now it's moved forward. >> yeah. >> which is really good for all of us. >> i want to ask you about your dad. the idea of stepping into your dad's shoes, i can't imagine what that would have been like. he was mayor from 65 to 86. i was in washington when he died and there was a period of time when someone was in office and you took over as mayor in '89. but still the shadow that your dad cast, he still casts a long shadow. how do you inherent the daley brand and hope to match -- >> my dad knew, he came out

of the depression in the roosevelt era. roosevelt was one man, one party. went to school at night. he had to work. so we worked up to it. and he was a lawyer, very good lawyer. and he's much better in budgets than i was, to be very frank. he had a great mind for numbers so he could figure that out. so he's always respectful to the presidency. i remember in 1955, 1956, we had always the conventions at the amp pa theater near the stockyards and they passed through the community, very democratic and very vocal and people were disrespectful. the next day there were signs in everyone's home, we love ike, because you respect the office. we have to get back to respecting the office. i may differ with the president, but i still am going to work with him. >> that was your dad's approach to the job.

>> respectful. very respectful. 1959 he went to washington, d.c. and said, don't build hi-rise public housing with senator paul douglas, a great senator. and they said you cannot build hi-rise public housing. people are coming from rural communities. you can't put them -- of course the federal government even today does their own thing and they went ahead with public housing. they said you can't work, you have to be poor. so it became -- >> so he went his own way. >> yeah, he always did. in 1966, 67 he told president johnson that you better get out of vietnam. it's all on tape. he says hessburg should be president of the commission, five members, because you will destroy the country, you will destroy your presidency, you will separate what the country is all about and get more people killed. of course, eisenhauer explained the war machine, military contractors, and he stayed that course. he would not change.

he should have changed, should have got out of vietnam as quickly as possible. >> when you became mayor did you think that the lesson of my father's time as mayor what i described up close in those years was take positions, take the heat. >> and also respect the presidency. i worked with george bush, i worked with clinton, i worked with george w. bush, i worked with obama. i respect the office. i may differ with them, but i pay their salaries. you pay their salaries. you may differ with them, but you want government to work. you may differ with them on issues. and from my perspective no one wants to work together and no one wants to agree on these issues -- you can agree on these issues and disagree on these other issues and that's what wrong today in the political situation because the policysters have divided us. if you watch the media today it's more of an entertainment. it's really entertainment between the weather and the sports and the traffic. and then it becomes you have 12 seconds or 15 seconds to

say something. you've got those on the left, those on the right. everybody laughs. >> and this is another difference from the time that you became mayor to the time that you were done. >> it's really entertainment today. they really entertain us. but that's part of what america wants to see. >> so we've got about three minutes left. the most important question that i came in today to ask you is of course about why the cubs are s >> i'm a white sox fan. >> are you? [laughter] >> i am a white sox fan. [laughter] >> we'll find common ground on this. you're the mayor of a city where sports are as important as anything. >> god, yes. >> and there's no greater unanswered question than why for so many years have the cubs been so cursed and why is chicago from a baseball perspective, the white sox have been better, but not so much. not great. so mr. mayor, tell me what's up with the cubs? >> i grew up three blocks from the chicago white sox and i've been a white sox fan all my life. i like the cubs.

>> but you're an educated chicagoan. you can tell me from a learned perspective, why have the cubs not been able to get it together? >> i think all of baseball is in difficulty. if you look at football and basketball, they're basically minor leagues are your colleges that you pay for. and baseball doesn't have that luxury. they have the farm system that's completely -- people can't figure this out. and they should restructure baseball into high school, junior college and college and give scholarships out and make sure they complete their education. and it would be a wonderful thing. but the minor league system is not working. and i think the ball players are not coming up from the minor leagues. >> but it's not working for the white sox, it's not working for the red sox. it's not working for the trainingers, but they seem to be doing a lot better than the cubs. >> that's right. that's why i'm a white sox fan. [laughter] >> so just to sum up, why are the cubs so bad is i'm a

white sox fan. [laughter] did you decide when you were done that you were done? are you done now? >> yes. >> you're in your early 70's. you seem a very vigorous guy. >> no, i don't deal with anything in local government. i don't deal with anything in politics. >> you're on the ballot for the last time. >> yes, that's it. and i've enjoyed all my years of public service because you're a public servant -- the problem today is when i got elected in '89 and prior to that i was state's attorney, i got elected overwhelmingly with all votes from every community. in '88 i think i had 90, 95% of the african-american community. i ran for office and a good friend of mine was running against me, tim evans. an african-american. i think i got 90% of the african-american vote. under american politics you would say that's not my base. i don't have to do anything. i said, i have to convince them that i'm their mayor. two years later i got 25,

30%. 40%. after that 50, 60, 70, 80%. today your base -- you just stay with your base, you don't have to worry about the other voters. that is not what public service is about. >> right. >> you have to go out there and work it to make sure those who voted for other candidates can understand you and vote for you. today that is not what politics is about in america. it's all about your base. and it's too bad because there's not that dialogue that you can have with the constituents. and that has changed american politics forever. >> that may finally be the best lesson that you took away from the 22 years. >> i think, yes. you brought this city together and you brought the voters together. >> mr. mayor, welcome back to the private life. >> appreciate it. >> we're happy to have you back. i hope you enjoy it and it's an honor to have you here today. very nice talking to you. [applause]. >> we'd love to have you join us in the studio. visit our website at

klru.org/overheard to find invitations to interviews, q and as with our audience and guests an archive of past episodes. >> i never went home and told my dad that the teacher flunked me. i thought i flunked myself. but today in america the teacher flunked you. it's unbelievable. you blame everybody else. so i'm very pro teachers. >> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and from the texas board of legal specialization, board certified attorneys in your community. experienced, respected and tested. also by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco

health. and by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you. >> hello, i am llewellyn king,

"white chronicle."

there are people ready around the capitalhouse saying the shutdown is not a big deal, it is not hurting anyone. they do not have it right. it hurts a lot of people. in the building where i live outside of evidence, rhode island, we had military families food, we- that had no had to start a food bank for them. we had people in great need and great fear, contractors, people who make small salaries and it is hard for those who have money don'tderstand those who live from paycheck to paycheck, something else. inther inside into things this great nation. the has this program is called "white house chronicle," the phone rings, and it is people in of trouble.

we had a conversation with a nice single mother who works for walmart and makes $17,000 a year and cannot survive without food stamps, and she wanted to speak to the president to explain that with a small child, it was absolutely essential that she continued to get her food stamps. people are hurting in this country, and we cut off the access to the pain, we do not hear it, we do not have novelists writing about it. we have novelists writing about various psychological and wish but not about where the rubber .ate -- meets the road at the grocery store. i am very glad and i am in washington to be able to avoid some of the horrors. i stay at the american guesthouse which is more club hoteltel, but it is more then bed-and-breakfast.

very comfy, like a suit of old clothes. lovely furnishings and delightful people. check it out, the american guesthouse. today i will be talking to hend smith, who has written a powerful, important, historical book, i would say because it has and researchotes on what happened to the american dream and who stole it. i will be right back with he drick smith. you will love him. >> "white house chronicle" produced in collaboration with whut, howard university television. and now your program host, llewellyn king and cohost linda gasparello.

>> hello again. i promised to introduce you to hedrick smith and here he is. he has been a hero of mine for many decades. "the newrter for york times," he wrote a book on russia that helped me when i went to russia. i have been there quite a few times since then. without his book i would not have understood the place. he has continued with a great output of high-quality books,ism in print, newspapers, and in public television broadcasting. welcome to this broadcast. >> what a pleasure to be with you. >> what are you up to? here is your book, "who stole the american dream?" and it isd it sobering. >> it was stunning. it was stunning to me as a reporter. i spent most of the last 50 years