tavis: what is your sense at the moment of this film? >> i wanted to put it on the map. it seems like people in general turned a blind eye to it. holding the camera up and pointing in any direction. look at this. to court theeople debate. society.hing in believe yout you put on the table for us to

debate? forget.again, never where we are, hopefully where we can go in the future. and with this sort of unfortunate situation, the one 50th anniversary of the march on washington. this sort of perfect storm, i think. you just ran a list like you are a black american. >> i am an internationalist. tavis: is this an indictment

because it was made by someone who happens to not be african- american? >> i don't like to make the distinctions on nationalism. grenada is where malcolm x's mother was born. it is not american history. it is world history. tavis: this is one of the debates that take up on social media. we are all glad that steve mcqueen did it, but why didn't somebody stateside do this. >> i don't know and i don't really care. i think it is a waste of time.

we can talk about something more tangible and more worthy and more practical. i was just reading in the new york times a piece where you recorded the subject of barack obama came up. thatnotion of the fact there have been any number of films from the help to the butler. the article for those that did not see it, the sense of how with obamaas to do allowing these films to be made at the timing of it. people wanting to talk.

it allows authority. it doesn't stop. all kinds of problems and all kind of stories can be told. >> give me a sense of the way you chose to shoot this. two or three scenes come to mind on the face for a while.

you wanted us to stay present. >> there is a one-shot sequence. it is much more interesting. you can sort of exhaled. i want to detention to be kept up at that moment until the end cuthe scene when she is down after she has been beaten.

the whole idea for me of that technique is because it was hand and glove. it was swimming faster and faster until we got in the eye of the storm when she is being beaten. and to hold it, what she is holding on to, her life symbolized by a piece of soap. that is when we cut. it is about keeping the tension in the room and not letting go because that is what the scene really requires. >> is there a point where the story is this true and this risk --here you run the i am not critiquing, just asking a question. do you make it too difficult for the audience to swallow?

>> you have to balance it both. are five or six sequences of actual physical violence. tavis: but you did not donate down. -- tone it down. >> a film about slavery. to make a film about slavery, o.u have two tavis: it is not rocket science, but it is in the midst of all of that drama and degradation and volatility. it is interesting to see the

other characters that are socially redemptive in the way they behave. >> it is just not how it happened. when he is on the boat and his friend is set free, he can turn around to be able to see how he is and say goodbye. it is not about black-and-white. redundance and the situation of america. it is about the history of america. it is pretty important subject matter.

also, at the same time, it is a film about love. undeniable love. we are sitting here because we had people survive. that situation for us to have that conversation, this is a story about love. tavis: when you first read this book, what did you make of this man? turn of the page, i was transfixed. that is what he is holding onto. i couldn't believe it. tavis: how did you discover the

book? , theyre was this idea came up with the idea that when they got it, i could not believe it. i thought people would notice, but they didn't. she is a world hero.

it is surprising and shocking. slavery of someone captured and released -- tavis: i am an african-american. scholars will tell you that it is a relatively well-known slave narrative amongst them. and why we have never heard frank?ut we know annnne >> when it came out, it was 27,000 copies. out. tom's cabin came

there can be more than one narrative, but this one was a clip stand buried. tavis: you flipped on me. >> it is kind of astonishing. it is what we have, in some ways. i find it astonishing. in ascratching my head way. what is possible is how this can

be put into schools as required reading. tavis: give me some sense of how the casting helps make this thing really work. >> [indiscernible] because there is some sort of genteelness, a certain kind of -- [indiscernible] guy?: you knew he was your -- he carried me

me through the narrative. the actor out there, there was the hunt for patty. tavis: what were you looking for that you were desperately trying to find. >> and innocence and grace. it can be sort of weathered in a way. are openme time, you to look at any and everyone. a lot officult because those actors don't get a chance.

it was tied up in that as well. lady who was just amazing. i brought her to new orleans and that was it. a star is born. she was absolutely incredible. ares: an actress that we rather familiar with. it takes you two seconds to realize who she is. >> yes, black people owned slaves. married to a slaver. and she owned slaves. she is the refuge.

she is this made in character. -- maiden character. there is one line in the book. john ridley, i said, i really need this woman to have a voice. it is such an important character. partyke of having a tea and what was developed. was it like on the very difficult days of shooting certain scenes? how did you navigate that personally? that you needed to get what you needed to get.

>> we had a wonderful family and community onset. tavis: i have had puaaul giamat. to see him play that role brilliantly, he is such an evil and ruthless person. >> there were a couple of things .o do

and not particularly pleasant stuff. someone was asking me a question the other day. what was it like when you found out about slavery? i had some sort of conscience about it. shame and embarrassment. imagine as a child, having that in your psyche at such an early age. it is how your present today.

they are in the context of where i am now. all this isrony of that we go back to the question about the era of obama. and what you have brilliantly done there. you now have an african-american president. we are past that now. >> we don't want it to happen again.

the presence of mental health, and the case of doing something about it. the conversation doesn't have to go that way. done your part and everybody is talking about this project. you will do yourself a great disservice if you don't see "12 years a slave." i guarantee you there will be some chitchat about this. the director is steve mcqueen. >> thank you very much. tavis: that is our show for tonight. thank's for watching and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley.

join me next time for a conversation with musician robbie robertson about his latest venture, a book about music changing the world. that is next time, we will see you then. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

>> be more. pbs.

coming up, many thousands of american prison inmates are locked up in solitary confinement sometimes for decades. luck luc lucky severson reports. also, popular crime novelist james lee burke. he tells bob faw all western literature is about the search for salvation.

major funding for "religion and ethics newsweekly" is provided by the lilly endowment an indianapolis private family foundation, dedicated to its founders' interest in religion, communi communi communi community development and education. and the retirement company. welcome, i'm bob abernethy. good to have you with us. as the government shutdown entered the second week, many religious leaders ramped up their criticism of lawmakers in washington. a coalition of 98 leaders accused elected officials of pursuing an ideological agenda at the expense of vulnerable families and the working poor.

several christian leaders staged what they called a faithful filibuster near the u.s. capitol. where they continuously read bible passages about caring for the poor. >> if you mistreat the poor, you insult your creator. if you are kind to them, you show him respect. >> meanwhile, religious conservatives rallied in washington at the annual values voters summit. activists reaffirmed their support for federal budget cuts and their opposition to the affordable care act. the group heard from several republican members of congress who had been leading the fight against obama care. >> and i would suggest a model for how we turn this country around in the next couple of years. and it is a model that we have been following together for the last couple of months, to stop that train wreck, that disaster,

that nightmare that is obama care. >> this year's nobel peace prize was awarded for the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons. it was formed in 1997 to enforce international treaties against the use of chemical weapons. the nobel committee said recent events in syria have underlined the need to enhance the efforts to do away with such weapons. muslims from around the world are gathering in mecca for the annual hajj or pilgrimage. around 3 million are expected including more than 14,000 americans. while diseases spread by travelers are always a challenge during the hajj, this year health officials are especially concerned about a deadly virus called the middle east respiratory syndrome or mers. the virus has killed dozens of

people in saudi arabia. saudi officials are providing vaccinations. american pilgrims are being urged to take extra precautions. leaders of the u.s. catholic bishops met with pope francis at the vatican this week. new york cardinal timothy dolan who's president of the bishops conference described it as a meeting of brothers. dolan said the pope was curious about issues facing the american church including the plight of undocumented immigrants. one of the top leaders of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, the mormons, has acknowledged that there have been times when church leaders and members have made mistakes. the president told a gathering last week that some mormon leaders have said and done things that were not in harmony with the church's principles or values or doctrindoctrine. he didn't specify what they were. some