my boy, they told us he is going to struggle. in kindergarten. now he is in the engineering program at asu. my daughter is a high school student at community college. she homeschooled until she was 17. it has really paid off for us. they have a firm foundation. take me back and tell me how you started getting so proficient. >> i started out as an oboe player. i went to berkeley high school in berkeley, california. i went off to college. you know, i wanted to play r&b,

rhythm and blues. you are not going to do that on the oboe. sax.tched over to lots of good tenors, but nobody played bari. i learned to play the baritone sax, self-taught. i was ready to go, i met emilio at the pleasant county fair. 4 weekend, 1968. not just being proficient, but a lot of soul. where did that come from? it is one thing to make the switch to the instrument. that is not just practice. berkeley is a very integrated

town. i was fortunate. i hired the musical training to be a good musician. trained and found the doctor. soul music in the bay area, it the most popular disc jockey in the bay area. tavis: this argument cuts both ways. given that it was such a soulful town, you got sly and everyone else out there doing their thing. what gave you the courage to think that you and this band could cut into that? >> because we are a white manba? tavis: i wasn't going to go

there, but some of the most soulful white folk i know are in oakland. you had to have hutzpah to believe that you were good enough to play. >> i saw it personally. there was a band in the bay area called the spiders. i saw them play, and it was like i put blinders on. wel music became my life. pattern ourselves after them and that is who we were when i met him. he was a roadie for the loading zone. we were a slick soul band. wanted to borrow the organ, they sent me over to interview

me. he asked me what we were like. the spiders had just kicked the loading zone's butt. they were amazing. the spiders took it to them. said, you can use the organ. afterwards, he says that band of yours is pretty good. only one thing wrong. your horn section needs a little bottom. by the way, i play the baritone sax. tavis: just drop that in there. >> i saw this great band doing it. he came into the band and he was the first hit the that i ever and he wanted to change our lifestyle. that is what was happening at the time.

we wanted to get to the fillmore and we knew that we were not going to get in there with a name like the motown's. this recording studio and this guy had put a list of potential band names on his desk. what about tower of power in e that was it. tavis: since you mentioned the fillmore, anybody who is anybody then and now still want to play the fillmore. you first got in their winning a contest? >> we auditioned. auditions were you had to get your spot a year ahead of time.

right about that time, we got busted for being underage. we played clubs for years underage. the alcohol and beverage control put out a letter saying if you hire these kids, we are going to take your liquor license. by the time the audition rolls around, nothing happens with this audition, i am going back we literally played like our lives depended on it. and it all did worked out, obviously. they were not used to big horn bands. they were the usual psychedelic bands. the first thing we did was hit a james brown tune.

[singing] walking out, they heard that and they made an about-face. popped out inad the back and it was bill graham. he always liked rhythm and horns. i flew to detroit the next day. if nothing happens, i'm not coming back. he was devastated. he said, you've got to come back. they dug it. who? bill graham. hock the organ and send me a ticket. [laughter] tavis: let me ask you to set your modesty aside just for a second. the me what you think contribution over these 45 years of this band tower of power has been to the business?

people playingg, real music. literate lyrics, musical songs and high performance levels. all of those things, trying to serve our fans and do what we do. there were trends through the years. we thought it was disco that was our lives. tavis: blame it on disco. >> smooth jazz, whenever we deviated which we tried a few times, it never worked out for us.

we stick to our guns now, and a high level of musicianship. tavis: the flip side of that lowest configuration. you tell me a lot tower of power the high point in ? we had rick stevens saying that you're still a young man. tavis: i suspect that over 45 years, this is to be expected. how does a band keep its ?ignature sound in

when the times are changing, how do you keep that? the sound nucleus has to give credit to rocco. i was drawing that sound out. we had that style of play. it always sounded like tower of power. are gettingompanies frustrated saying, why can't you sound like so and so? we would try, but it always sounded like tower of power. as soon as we realize that and we have a unique

way of writing and approaching the way that we put the songs together. who is in the organization, i am drawing that sound. all of your fans will agree that you are still a young man. that is the top. everybody knows one of your biggest hits. i tell myself about that every day. i am still a young man. i guess we all do that. >> when doc approached me, he said what you do to the songs we are playing is amazing. i would change the rhythm and the harmonies. what you do with these songs is

amazing. own?on't we write our i was happy. we had a great band and making good soul music. i had been in this relationship with this woman that was 24. she was six years older than me. she would break up with me and come back. why do you want to be with me? go be with girls your own age and i said no, i want to be with you. tavis: we all know that story. >> why don't we write a story about an older woman telling a young guy that you are too young for me. we were listening to curtis mayfield. he had this record out called this is my country.

really high. we loved it. we have to write a great trumpet intro because we had this guy nick gillette. we wrote the trumpet first. intro atback to the the end. it was really the most famous thing about that tune. it is that song. tell me about the process when a song is written. tell me about the process for laying down those horn licks. >> you get a title, you get a groove, you get a phrase, anything you can build upon.

that one was inspired by the curtis mayfield tune. and the song was also inspired by cheech and chong, he was in the band and cowrote that tune. we worked with them through the years. we get inspiration from wherever it is and build upon it. songke sure that when the is done, it is up to your standards. and we give it to the boys. they add a little magic to it. we raised that one ourselves. now we have a guy that raises the horns.

sometimes we have them play this line and to harmonize or whatever. tavis: tell me about "hipper than hip here co. >> it comes ." cds, live recordings that we did in long island. tookthey did was, they bands from warner bros. at the time and put them in a recording studio called ultrasonic sound. they did a simulcast on the radio station. every weekend is a different act. we were one of those weekends.

a great booklet goes with it. look at this, listen to this, i got this off of the radio. i hear the band every night. you need to ok this. i will sit down and listen to these songs. it is not that i forgot, but the realization of what an aggregation it was in 1974. lenny williams was killing it, lenny pickett was astounding. chester thompson on the organ. fabric, a sole fabric that was really exceptional. it is coming out in november and we are proud of it. tavis: you mentioned a couple

like james brown. i am curious, not just to influenced you, but is there a particular person or persons whose vote of approval of what you do has meant so much to you over the years? programuval was on this . we were talking about whether or not he read reviews or critics and he said, i haven't done that since i was 22 or 23. i wanted to know why. he said that marlon brando came to him one day and had seen one of his movies. he said, kid, you are good. since then, he didn't read nothing. marlon brando told me that i was a good actor and if he said that

to me, i haven't had to read or listen to what nobody says. approval you have received over the years, is that all you needed to hear. we have a song called "digging on james brown." we did a show with james brown, actually several. said, i really like that james brown song. we thought maybe, we will see you in court. he liked it and that meant a lot to me. >> we headlined a weekend at the fillmore auditorium. we were having this feud with bill graham. it shows you how great he was.

-- way toe best actor open up. we were really hitting it hard. we are playing and the fourth was standing in the doorway of the dressing room. aretha was wearing the tight white dress and the turbine. she is trying to get out of the way, but there were people here ri. -- here. we are nose to nose and she says, tower of power. my favorite band. i just about melted. tavis: when the queen tells you that and james brown tells you that, you don't need to hear from nobody else. hip" coming out

later and you want to get your hands on this project. that is the cd and dvd. 45 years of doing this good music. that is our show for tonight. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with best-selling author and lamotte. that is next time, we will see you then.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more.

>> there's a musical about carole king's life. what do we know about it? >> i hope it's not as much of a whitewash as the janis joplin show, which made you think that janis just had an occasional cocktail, was a really nice gal who always showed up on time. and occasionally was a little depressed. >> "theater talk" is made possible in part by... >> from new york city, this is "theater talk." i'm susan haskins. >> and i'm michael riedel of the new york post. and we're already laughing because we have a very, very funny panel that we put

together. >> and we're back for a very, very funny season on broadway. exactly. we're going to take a look ahead at what is coming at us on broadway and off-broadway this fall season, with a panel of distinguished experts in the field of theater journalism. we begin with jesse green -- >> where are they? >> who has been promoted now. you are now, if i'm not mistaken, the chief drama critic for new york magazine. >> well, there's only one, so saying "chief" isn't really very significant. >> i have to ask you, jesse, though, you're known to be very, very friendly with a lot of people in the theater world. how are you going to be able to put the knife into productions of friends of yours? >> have you read the piece i did on arthur laurents? you've only talked about it every time i've been here for the last six years. >> yes, he killed poor old arthur laurents. >> and he's dead now, so i think that answers the question. >> for example, i know you're working on a book with mary rodgers. will you be able to review anything by richard rodgers? >> 'cause those guys are trying to make it. >> she hates her father. [laughter] so it's fine. >> okay. she'll encourage you in any attack on "the sound of music."

well, congratulations on the new gig, jesse green. our old friend michael musto, who used to be at the village voice. are we allowed to mention that...? >> it's a pretty well known fact, yes. >> oh, you're on something else now. i got to get my notes here. >> could you be any more patronizing, you toad? my new column is "musto: the musical" on out.com. i cover theater, i cover all forms of entertainment -- just like the old column, but even better. i'm like sutton foster. you just can't stop me. i keep singing, dancing, and writing. >> you are a brand, and you are in many other publications, including the new york times. speaking of which... >> queen of the segues. >> good segue. whoa, subtle. speaking about your old friend patrick healy, excellent theater reporter for the new york times, who hasn't been around "theater talk" for a while. >> yeah, it's great to be back. thanks for calling me up. >> patrick, i want to get the sense -- you've been covering broadway now for, god, like five or six years, or even longer now. give me sort of an overall take on what is happening on broadway right now this season. i mean, what are the themes,

the trends? what do you see shaping up? >> the hot shows are still from last season. and they've figured out a way with the premium price ticketing to be making a lot of money on a show like "kinky boots" and "motown." that's what's getting the people in. this fall doesn't look as bad as last fall, when we had, you know, "scandalous" and "chaplin" and things that were just petering out. but you've got, it seems like, a lot of talent coming in attached to projects that people are still investing, still putting money in. but it still seems like a lot of the excitement is from last season. not a lot of shows, musicals that are generating a lot of energy. plays, somewhat more. >> there's 12 plays. and there's only six musicals. so, each play costs less to put on than any musical. so the investments are waiting for the spring, partly because they need the big houses, which are not free. >> right. well, the play that everyone's talking about and that scott rudin, the producer, seems, michael, to have made totally critic-proof, is "betrayal,"

with daniel craig and rachel weisz, and a third person that no one's ever heard of before. i think the advances are going to hit like $14 million before it opens. does it matter even if it's good or bad? >> it's critic-proof, and the premium tickets are $423. you have to mortgage your house to get a good seat. and the thing is, no one's talked about rachel weisz. she happens to be an oscar winner, you know, she has a pretty good career going on. but it's all about daniel craig. and it's actually very brave of him to play a part where she's cheating with the other guy we don't know the name of. it's also brave of all three of them -- >> haskins: they're married, right? >> yes, they are married. and it's also brave of all three of them to do a play that goes backwards in time, because we remember "merrily we roll." [snores] >> oh, come on! >> it's just too much work, with the audience paying that much money, to have to then figure out, "oh, wait, but this happened already." >> but "betrayal" has been successful previously. >> but what about this thing that rudin has really pioneered, which is, stars for limited runs selling tickets at the